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Ghaal, Black Metal, and Satanism
https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43326
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Author:  agentsteel666 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Ghaal, Black Metal, and Satanism

I just watched a short documentary about true Norwegian Black Metal. It was pretty interesting.

I can say that after watching that I understand why someone might be a Satanist. I actually felt a deep, spiritual understanding of it as I watched how Ghaal acted and felt. The extreme isolation and the dark wilderness of that place breeds people who don't know true value of friendship and interdependence, and this makes them become their own God.

Author:  The_Beast_in_Black [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:44 am ]
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You're analyzing Gaahl?

You do realize he's not actually a Satanist, right? He's a pagan, or so he claims. Pretty much all black metal artists are only using Satan as part of their music, they don't actually believe in him for the most part.

Author:  orionmetalhead [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:53 am ]
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In the future, symposium threads need a much more involved and thought out post to begin a thread. Also, There is currently a thread on satanism which you should have posted this in. It can be found here:

http://www.metal-archives.com/board/vie ... hp?t=39010

Author:  Stormalv [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:31 am ]
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I saw Gorgoroth yesterday, Gaahl is awesome, and he looked me in the eyes a lot of the time it seems (I was in the front). Also, a friend of mine has painted a 3-meter high portrait of Gaahl, totally accurate, she's trying to have him sign it. Pretty awesome. I know, not actually related to the topic, I just seized the opportunity to brag a little here before it gets locked. :P

Btw, Gorgoroth's new drummer owns. I don't know his name, but he's 20 years old and he's a hell of a drummer.

Author:  Demonium1431 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:22 pm ]
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Gaahl is a shaman or some sh*t like that. Anyway to the poster above me you saw the fake version of Gorgoroth because we all know Gorgoroth belongs to Infernus.

Author:  FiZzZiKaL [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
You're analyzing Gaahl?

You do realize he's not actually a Satanist, right? He's a pagan, or so he claims. Pretty much all black metal artists are only using Satan as part of their music, they don't actually believe in him for the most part.


You're wrong on what Satanism is. You're thinking of Theistic Satanism, which is the worship of Satan himself.

LaVeyan Satanism is the worship of the self. The use of the word Satanism refers to "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies."

Author:  Kruel [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:32 pm ]
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...and LaVeyan Satanism is not the only form of atheistic Satanism.

Author:  Unholy_Asar [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:49 pm ]
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FiZzZiKaL wrote:
The use of the word Satanism refers to "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies."


What the fuck is this definition? Satanism is and always has been a term used to describe religious groups that worship (theistic satanism) or glorify (atheistic satanism) Satan. Without Satan, it cannot possibly be satanism. There could be groups that satisfy this criteria, that are unrelated to all any other faith, but still completely unrelated to satanism.

Do you have any source for this supposed "definition" whatsoever, or are you just talking out of your ass?

Author:  FiZzZiKaL [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

Unholy_Asar wrote:
FiZzZiKaL wrote:
The use of the word Satanism refers to "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies."


What the fuck is this definition? Satanism is and always has been a term used to describe religious groups that worship (theistic satanism) or glorify (atheistic satanism) Satan. Without Satan, it cannot possibly be satanism. There could be groups that satisfy this criteria, that are unrelated to all any other faith, but still completely unrelated to satanism.

Do you have any source for this supposed "definition" whatsoever, or are you just talking out of your ass?


Yes, I understand that is not a definition and I never stated it was. It is what the LaVeyan Satanism refers to as what they mean in that word. I just trying to give an example of a form of Satanism that does not directly worship Satan.

Author:  Unholy_Asar [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:06 pm ]
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FiZzZiKaL wrote:
Unholy_Asar wrote:
FiZzZiKaL wrote:
The use of the word Satanism refers to "small religious group that is unrelated to any other faith, and whose members feel free to satisfy their urges responsibly, exhibit kindness to their friends, and attack their enemies."


What the fuck is this definition? Satanism is and always has been a term used to describe religious groups that worship (theistic satanism) or glorify (atheistic satanism) Satan. Without Satan, it cannot possibly be satanism. There could be groups that satisfy this criteria, that are unrelated to all any other faith, but still completely unrelated to satanism.

Do you have any source for this supposed "definition" whatsoever, or are you just talking out of your ass?


Yes, I understand that is not a definition and I never stated it was. It is what the LaVeyan Satanism refers to as what they mean in that word. I just trying to give an example of a form of Satanism that does not directly worship Satan.


Laveyan Satanism still glorifies Satan as a symbol, which is why it can at all be called satanism.

But then again, it has been argued that laveyan satanism isn't even satanism at all.

Author:  ObscureInfinity [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:34 pm ]
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Satan originally means adversary; not necessarily pertaining to the Christian deity.

Author:  Manic616 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

ObscureInfinity wrote:
Satan originally means adversary; not necessarily pertaining to the Christian deity.

Yeah, any luciferianist would argue that the deity is Lucifer and not Satan. So in my eyes Satanism is really just an occult form of atheism.

Author:  Unholy_Asar [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

Manic616 wrote:
occult form of atheism.


But since theistic satanism actually exists, this can not be the case. Theistic satanism is not atheistic, hence it's name, and it is still satanism.

Also, atheists might argue that occultism can't be atheistic either, as it involves faith in some kind of supernatural existance.

Author:  UnserHeiligeTod [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ghaal, Black Metal, and Satanism

agentsteel666 wrote:
The extreme isolation and the dark wilderness of that place breeds people who don't know true value of friendship and interdependence, and this makes them become their own God.

Um, what? You don't seriously have that image of Scandinavia, do you?

Author:  Manic616 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:45 pm ]
Post subject: 

Unholy_Asar wrote:
Manic616 wrote:
occult form of atheism.


But since theistic satanism actually exists, this can not be the case. Theistic satanism is not atheistic, hence it's name, and it is still satanism.

Also, atheists might argue that occultism can't be atheistic either, as it involves faith in some kind of supernatural existance.

Well to me theistic satanism is actually luciferianism addressed by they wrong name.
And Atheism can be occult becuase all occult means is secret/hidden, it doesnt need a belief in some form of God.

Author:  Unholy_Asar [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:56 pm ]
Post subject: 

Manic616 wrote:
Unholy_Asar wrote:
Manic616 wrote:
occult form of atheism.


But since theistic satanism actually exists, this can not be the case. Theistic satanism is not atheistic, hence it's name, and it is still satanism.

Also, atheists might argue that occultism can't be atheistic either, as it involves faith in some kind of supernatural existance.

Well to me theistic satanism is actually luciferianism addressed by they wrong name.
And Atheism can be occult becuase all occult means is secret/hidden, it doesnt need a belief in some form of God.


Most luciferianists/theistic satanists will tell you that there is an extreme difference between luciferianism and theistic satanism, but have it your way.

I'm not the best person to explain this precisely though, as I'm not a theistic satanist/luciferian. I have had some contact with people who identify themselves as both though, which is what I'm basing this on.

And if you look at occultism, a lot of atheists would see it as simply another religion (meaning bogus). This is because while occultism as a concept (meaning the teachings of things secret) would not necessarily mean belief in the supernatural as you said, the things contained within what is actually called occultism today definitely does.

Author:  Manic616 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:00 pm ]
Post subject: 

Unholy_Asar wrote:
And if you look at occultism, a lot of atheists would see it as simply another religion (meaning bogus). This is because while occultism as a concept (meaning the teachings of things secret) would not necessarily mean belief in the supernatural as you said, the things contained within what is actually called occultism today definitely does.

Yes that is fair, but it doesn't really matter what other atheists would think. Occult is such a broad term that it can cover both the theistic and the atheistic beliefs. I think this is straying abit from Ghaal now though.

Author:  MaDTransilvanian [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

Demonium1431 wrote:
Gaahl is a shaman or some sh*t like that. Anyway to the poster above me you saw the fake version of Gorgoroth because we all know Gorgoroth belongs to Infernus.


Yeah Gorgoroth is definitely Infernus, he founded the band, is the sole founding member left and he composed their best albums. Gaahl and King are just a couple of assholes who hijacked the name for their own advantage.

Author:  cultofkraken [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:15 pm ]
Post subject: 

MaDTransilvanian wrote:
Demonium1431 wrote:
Gaahl is a shaman or some sh*t like that. Anyway to the poster above me you saw the fake version of Gorgoroth because we all know Gorgoroth belongs to Infernus.


Yeah Gorgoroth is definitely Infernus, he founded the band, is the sole founding member left and he composed their best albums. Gaahl and King are just a couple of assholes who hijacked the name for their own advantage.


I'm surprised King and Gaahl can even use the name considering they are still in court over it. It's not decided by a long shot. Arrogant pricks... I can't wait till the court finds Infernus in favour of ownership, and with his much superior lineup puts to rest the shitty king/gaahl years.

Author:  EntilZha [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ghaal, Black Metal, and Satanism

UnserHeiligeTod wrote:
agentsteel666 wrote:
The extreme isolation and the dark wilderness of that place breeds people who don't know true value of friendship and interdependence, and this makes them become their own God.

Um, what? You don't seriously have that image of Scandinavia, do you?

Yes, agentsteel666 literally said that because Gaahl is from an isolated region, ALL of Scandinavia is isolated wilderness. Either that or something is wrong with your reading comprehension.

Author:  UnserHeiligeTod [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Ghaal, Black Metal, and Satanism

agentsteel666 wrote:
The extreme isolation and the dark wilderness of that place breeds people who don't know true value of friendship and interdependence, and this makes them become their own God.

If you can't see the utter nonsense of that statement then perhaps something is wrong with yours.

Author:  EntilZha [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:49 pm ]
Post subject: 

He wasn't referring to Scandinavia as a whole but to people who grow up in very isolated places.

Why do I even have to explain this? Is it really so hard to grasp the obvious?

Author:  UnserHeiligeTod [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:52 pm ]
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No, he wasn't.

Author:  Kruel [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

He was referring specifically to the place in which Gaahl lives (which seems to be quite isolated from watching that documentary).

Author:  Sentienth696 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:19 pm ]
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Slightly off topic, but why is it that Agentsteel666 starts a thread then never seems to come back to it and give any argument or further detail into what hes talking about? I've noticed this over numerous threads now, and its getting annoying.

Author:  awm [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 

Scandinavians for Baphomet.

Author:  Lyrici17 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 

cultofkraken wrote:
MaDTransilvanian wrote:
Demonium1431 wrote:
Gaahl is a shaman or some sh*t like that. Anyway to the poster above me you saw the fake version of Gorgoroth because we all know Gorgoroth belongs to Infernus.


Yeah Gorgoroth is definitely Infernus, he founded the band, is the sole founding member left and he composed their best albums. Gaahl and King are just a couple of assholes who hijacked the name for their own advantage.


I'm surprised King and Gaahl can even use the name considering they are still in court over it. It's not decided by a long shot. Arrogant pricks... I can't wait till the court finds Infernus in favour of ownership, and with his much superior lineup puts to rest the shitty king/gaahl years.


Yes, reading the wikipedia entry about the controversy is both interesting and informative. Like you asserted, it will be a long while before the final decision is made (though it should be noted that Regain records is backing Infernus)....

Author:  Viral [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:17 pm ]
Post subject: 

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=106693

:lol::lol::lol:

Author:  Kruel [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Wait, so is it confirmed that Gaahl is gay, or is Dani Filth making assumptions?

Author:  MapleKit [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:21 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yeah it's no secret that Gaahl is a homosexual by now. He's just an all around crazy guy.

Author:  Sentienth696 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:39 pm ]
Post subject: 

Gaahl doesn't = Gorgoroth IMO anyway!

Gaahl and his corporate sellout friends, and bands hes in contact with can all go and tour together, make their money, fuck each other and totally disregard their pasts! Just the fact he is touring with COF is enough for me to laugh at his ideals! Whatever! There are still plenty of bands out there to keep me happy.

Pushing another worthless joke band aside seems to be a regular day to day occurance now! :roll:

Author:  EntilZha [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:57 pm ]
Post subject: 

Kruel wrote:
Wait, so is it confirmed that Gaahl is gay, or is Dani Filth making assumptions?

Nope, still just a retarded assumption that befriending a fashion designer means that he slept with him. There has never been any word on Gaahl's sexual orientation.

Author:  Sentienth696 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

Soooo. . . . Maplekit have you proof? Or is saying that its no secret about his sexuality merely your opinion?? Being crazy is not proof of this!

Hell, where's proof hes even crazy, and not just a bit strange????

Author:  MapleKit [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

Sentienth696 wrote:
Soooo. . . . Maplekit have you proof? Or is saying that its no secret about his sexuality merely your opinion?? Being crazy is not proof of this!

Hell, where's proof hes even crazy, and not just a bit strange????
I've never seen him bang another guy, but in my opinion he's as gay as they come. Not that I care, i do not hate homosexuals.

Author:  Kruel [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:04 pm ]
Post subject: 

So what makes you form that opinion?

Author:  Sentienth696 [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:06 pm ]
Post subject: 

MapleKit wrote:
Yeah it's no secret that Gaahl is a homosexual by now. He's just an all around crazy guy.


That quote comes across more as fact than opinion!

How is he as gay as they come? I fail to see why you think that?

Author:  MapleKit [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:38 pm ]
Post subject: 

Sentienth696 wrote:
MapleKit wrote:
Yeah it's no secret that Gaahl is a homosexual by now. He's just an all around crazy guy.


That quote comes across more as fact than opinion!

How is he as gay as they come? I fail to see why you think that?
Once he publicly comes out you can look back on this thread and chuckle.

Author:  Kruel [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

That is irrelevant. Just provide evidence that can be perceived now.

Author:  MortalScum [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

:lol: Gaahl: the Glen Benton of Black Metal

Author:  rexxz [ Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:47 pm ]
Post subject: 

*sigh* Do I have to do it to this thread, too?

Please, don't ruin perfectly good topics with this goose-gossip "Is he GAY? OMG!" bullshit.

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