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goatmanejy
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:38 am
Posts: 173
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:33 pm 
 

lornem16 wrote:
I can't believe nobody has concluded the obvious here.... this douchebag the op is referring to is not a musician! I find another argument that comes up along with the whole "elitist" shit is the musician -vs- listener argument, which unfortunately usually ends up in the "if you think band X sucks, why don't you make your own band?"

agentsteel666 wrote:
Me: I don't have anything against other forms of music, it's just that metal is the music that I feel passionate about. I'm looking to create a certain sound, and I would be against forming a band with a bassist who was into funk, or reggae, or something that would stand in the way of our goal.


this may be the only part where I slightly disagree with the OP, because believe it or not, there are ways of incorporating other styles of music into metal! I mean, if the funk bassist was actually willing to play metal, I wouldn't see it as him standing in the way of the band's common goal... Look at Alex Webster from Cannibal Corpse... he's said he learned all these different styles of music so he could incorporate them into metal... and I know it's not always the case, but as a musician, for your music to survive, you have to be open minded... otherwise your music will end up sounding the same... and I mean, to a certain extent your music is supposed to sound the same (in the sense that you have a determinable style), but if you don't open yourself up to new techniques and playing styles, you may find yourself in a rut.

I really enjoy blending genres. Right now, my band plays a sort of stoner/thrash/black/grunge/progressive rock thing.
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Primemattimus
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:38 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:56 pm 
 

I havent read all the other responses to this thread, so pardon any redundancy, but people are just projecting when they say that kinda shit. Its their own fear of being close minded, or them trying to project their own reality where everything has to be eclectic, even though they may not know SHIT about metal..

Its often ironic that people say "oh i like all types of music" and they have a very superficial understanding of it, like they will listen to the pop country, have a Chamillionaire cd, and a Metallica cd (usually the Black Album) and say they're "open minded".

I enjoy blending genres too, but find that blending genres with metal is only better when a persons a metalhead first and then adds some of their own other likings to it. Otherwise it usually doesnt work, especially in a band situation.


Isn't it funny that alot of these comments are often times reserved for the genre of metal? What a bunch of idiotic hypocrites.

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DGYDP
Leather Lion

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm
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Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:02 pm 
 

One of my friends is like that, he's "open minded", "listens to all music" and yet the only things he knows are modern metalcore, Master of Puppets/Enter Sandman, Yngwie Malmsteem/Paul Gilbert and .... Dragonforce. I put him in his place on a regular basis whenever he annoys me with this crap, but other than that he's a pretty intelligent guy. These people just don't know anything about music, so my advice would be to not talk about music with them.
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Primemattimus
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:21 pm 
 

Its ironic because getting into metal has gotten me INTO other types of music, even if metals still the main thing. I can give you the trajectory of the whole thing:


(gets into Voivod around 90 or so)-Voivod does a Pink Floyd cover and mentions prog in interviews- gets into Pink Floyd- doesnt mind some electronic music or tripped out weird stuff as result- gets into prog- gets into jazz because of prog.


Thats how its gone for me- and most people when they bash metal have NO FUCKING CLUE that it has the tendency to do that (what i mentioned above) to a lot of people.

Try getting these fuckers to do diminished sweep arpeggios all across the fretboard.

Anyways, just dont react when these people do this stuff- just act as if- dont feed into their bullshit.

Sorry but thinking more about the OP's experience is getting me more and more pissed off!

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LotF
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:39 pm
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Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 4:52 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
People who say "I like everything" are indeed pretty annoying. Most of the time that translates to "I have no opinion, so I let the radio tell me what to like."

When someone says that to me, I'll generally reply with something like "Oh, so powerviolence, goregrind, drone metal, speedcore, free jazz, traditional Mongolian vocal music?"


That's exactly what I say to them as well (along that context), and it's a pleasure to watch them squirm.
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VampireKiller
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:33 pm 
 

Ok, so I admit that I'm a "close minded" metalhead who only listens to metal. But it's my choice, and I'm sticking to it. And I don't see what harm other people could get from the fact that I'm close minded

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goatmanejy
Village Idiot

Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:38 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:08 pm 
 

LotF wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
People who say "I like everything" are indeed pretty annoying. Most of the time that translates to "I have no opinion, so I let the radio tell me what to like."

When someone says that to me, I'll generally reply with something like "Oh, so powerviolence, goregrind, drone metal, speedcore, free jazz, traditional Mongolian vocal music?"


That's exactly what I say to them as well (along that context), and it's a pleasure to watch them squirm.


Well, I actually do like all forms of music to soem extent. The only exception Ive found is Emo. I have never found a single emo band that does not irratate me. I also do not really have any pop or dance bands I like in particular, just a few scattered songs. And of course, you mention Mongolian vocal music, which I ahev never heard of, so I guess it translates more into i like all forms of music I have heard of.
Yet, i knwo no one else with any claim to likeing most forms of music. Hatred for easy-listeniong musak is almost universal. Im the only one I know that enjoys some of it.
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Regurgitation
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:33 pm 
 

A really great example of a "mix" is Semargl's Attack on God. It has Black Metal, Acoustic, Classical, Death Metal, Thrash Metal and Slam Death Metal. Definitely get it if you haven't. And no, you can't sample from it, you need to hear it from start to end to understand it.

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CountBlagorath
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:01 pm 
 

I really never get in a "open minded closed minded" discussion. But I do recieve alot of crap from friends ther are like "BLACK METAL OR GTFO!". I listen to everything Metal. I like Lamb of God and Machine Head. But at the same time I like Cannibal Corpse, Darkthrone, Funeral Fog, Burzum, Behemoth ect. But the shit that drives those "tr00 kvlt" A-holes nuts is that I LOVE folk metal. So basicaly I'm told to be a closed minded metalhead.
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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:05 pm 
 

The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
When someone says that to me, I'll generally reply with something like "Oh, so powerviolence, goregrind, drone metal, speedcore, free jazz, traditional Mongolian vocal music?"

That's a somewhat stupid reply. When people say things like that, they really mean they have an open mind to different kinds of music. I'm pretty sure they don't mean they listen to EVERYTHING. But they probably would give it a chance if given the opportunity to.

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Kruel
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:56 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:06 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
When someone says that to me, I'll generally reply with something like "Oh, so powerviolence, goregrind, drone metal, speedcore, free jazz, traditional Mongolian vocal music?"

That's a somewhat stupid reply. When people say things like that, they really mean they have an open mind to different kinds of music. I'm pretty sure they don't mean they listen to EVERYTHING. But they probably would give it a chance if given the opportunity to.

Then why state it in that way? It is entirely valid to question it with a reply like that. The initial statement is the one that is stupid, not the reply.

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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:09 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
Viral wrote:
The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
When someone says that to me, I'll generally reply with something like "Oh, so powerviolence, goregrind, drone metal, speedcore, free jazz, traditional Mongolian vocal music?"

That's a somewhat stupid reply. When people say things like that, they really mean they have an open mind to different kinds of music. I'm pretty sure they don't mean they listen to EVERYTHING. But they probably would give it a chance if given the opportunity to.

Then why state it in that way? It is entirely valid to question it with a reply like that.

Perhaps the person failed to deliver the message in the desired context. Some people have trouble clarifying things sometimes.

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Kruel
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:13 pm 
 

Well, regardless of the context, it doesn't really connect to what you have said is the "real meaning" of the statement.

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Horned_Owl_Holocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:04 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:39 pm 
 

Or perhaps you guys take some words of these people way too literally. It's clear what the majority of people who use that line mean by it - thebeastinblack's response is smartass douchebaggery.

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Kruel
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:40 pm 
 

What do they mean?

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Horned_Owl_Holocaust
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:43 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
What do they mean?


Figure it out you have a brain man.

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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:44 pm 
 

He's trying to say he's trying to come off as a smartass...which is unnecessary given that particular scenario.

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Kruel
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:46 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
He's trying to say he's trying to come off as a smartass...which is unnecessary given that particular scenario.

My question was not about what Horned_Owl_Holocaust means. I was asking what he thinks those people who say "I like everything" really mean with that statement.

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Horned_Owl_Holocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:04 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:51 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
Viral wrote:
He's trying to say he's trying to come off as a smartass...which is unnecessary given that particular scenario.

My question was not about what Horned_Owl_Holocaust means. I was asking what he thinks those people who say "I like everything" really mean with that statement.


You can interpret it any way you like, though 90% of the people I know do not like metal, and I've heard that line used on several occasions. I could explain to you my grasp on what they mean, or you could venture off of the computer and maybe meet some people who will say it to you, and you can get some clarity on it in a a possibly more rewarding way.

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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:52 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
Viral wrote:
He's trying to say he's trying to come off as a smartass...which is unnecessary given that particular scenario.

My question was not about what Horned_Owl_Holocaust means. I was asking what he thinks those people who say "I like everything" really mean with that statement.

I think you're overanalyzing this. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they just mean they'll try anything once and aren't coming off as the smug people TBiB is portraying them as.

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Horned_Owl_Holocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:04 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:55 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
Kruel wrote:
Viral wrote:
He's trying to say he's trying to come off as a smartass...which is unnecessary given that particular scenario.

My question was not about what Horned_Owl_Holocaust means. I was asking what he thinks those people who say "I like everything" really mean with that statement.

I think you're overanalyzing this. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they just mean they'll try anything once and aren't coming off as the smug people TBiB is portraying them as.


Yea, that's what I was getting to. It seems a few people here are looking for some definitive absolute answer and overthinking something which is extremely trivial.

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Kruel
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:03 pm 
 

If that is what they mean, the statement is entirely inaccurate.

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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:07 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
If that is what they mean, the statement is entirely inaccurate.

Yes. Had they worded it properly, I guess such conclusions wouldn't have been made.

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Horned_Owl_Holocaust
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:04 am
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:11 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
If that is what they mean, the statement is entirely inaccurate.


Can you see how bad it would come off when you meet some new people and you give them these type of responses over simple conversation? I'm guilty of making a huge assumption here, but you come off as the guy who takes every single thing somebody says literal to the bone, and would be the guy correcting the most unnecessary of things in any situation and driving everybody nuts. No offense.


Last edited by Horned_Owl_Holocaust on Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:11 pm 
 

But at the same time, it should be generally known that when people say such things, they mean what I stated they really mean. Most people will not take the time to elaborate on their statements and follow it up with "...and I'll give everything a listen."...especially if it's small talk where conversations usually are not built upon further and limited to very general and broad statements.

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LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:14 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
If that is what they mean, the statement is entirely inaccurate.


When someone says "This tastes like shit", do you take them to task when you realise that they don't actually mean the food literally tastes like faeces?

Things aren't always meant to be taken literally. When someone says "I listen to everything", I understand that they do not mean they literally listen to every single genre of music, because no one does. "Everything" means something different each time, but the meaning is never literal (in my experience, anyway).
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Kruel
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:23 pm 
 

Did I ever insist that they mean it literally? No. I'm saying that what they really mean is very unclear -- so, regardless of what they really mean, it is best to refrain from saying that and giving a clearer statement (unless they literally mean it, of course).

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~Guest 62838
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:40 pm 
 

Not to derail the thread too much, but on the topic of not being able to take a hint, I used to have a friend who got really pissed whenever people called Rage Against the Machine simply Rage. He argued that it was very confusing for him because of the German band Rage and could not tell which one people were referring to. I basically got pissed off with the guy's idiocy and said to him "Dude, when you see the average person talking about a band called "Rage", do you really think they're referring to the German band that not many people outside of metal circles know about or the much more popular rock group from the U.S.? You really can't be that stupid." and that shut him up good. But I think he complained about that mostly to stir up shit. He always was an attention whore (the main reason I stopped associating with him).

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LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:09 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:43 pm 
 

Kruel wrote:
I'm saying that what they really mean is very unclear -- so, regardless of what they really mean, it is best to refrain from saying that and giving a clearer statement (unless they literally mean it, of course).


I agree with you that saying "I like everything" is very unclear, and would not suffer at all from elaboration. If only all people were endowed with clarity of thought and expression. However, I'm banking on the probability that this is too high an expectation of the average person (which means that we can insist on clarity, but we can't expect it).
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Noobbot
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:31 pm 
 

Open- and close-mindedness are typically subjective, relative qualities. If you listen to even three or four distinct genres, you likely listen to more music than most people around you who would deem you close-minded. Listening to radio garbage makes you no more open-minded, and indeed seems to make people innately more myopic. When I am called out as close-minded, I enjoy rhetorically asking the accusor if they enjoy several obscure genres of my choosing. It usually shuts them up. But in the end, it's likely best not to concern yourself with such trivialties and to scoff those who do, for nobody 'listens to everything', as I'm sure the rational lot of us are aware.

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antzology
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:24 am
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Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:24 am 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
I was gonna say, as has already been hinted at, the reason why most people automatically assume you are close-minded/arrogant/elitist is that most metal heads are exactly that. Besides the e-folk here, most "metalheads" I meet are into fairly mainstream stuff, are fairly elitist and closed minded and are also the majority. Honestly, a member of one of the bigger metal groups in the city here didn't even know who Immortal where. For a better example, think of the stereotypical Slayer fan. That's what the majority of "real life" metalheads I meet are like. Knuckle dragging idiots who think the more you downtune your guitar the heavier you are. Maybe the demographic changes from place to place, but that's what alot are like around where I live. Seeing that, it's not hard to imagine a non-metalhead seeing this and making the assumption that we are all this way.


Sad but true.

I'm not going to lie, people that refuse to listen to anything other than one style of music annoy me. Idiot metalheads who refuse to even give anything else a try piss me off, if you told them you like hip hop or jazz some of them will treat you like you're less than a human being... Yet they don't even know if they like that music or not, because they refuse to even try listening to it. This obviously doesn't happen just with metalheads, it also especially happens rap fanatics who think metal is just people screaming (a bit like rock fans thinking rap is just negroes talking about bitches and money).

People that only like one genre of music (whether it be metal, jazz or even contemporary r&b (ugh)) yet won't instantly shun music just because of it's genre, if they'll give it a go then that's cool with me.

Guy in OP's post is a jackass, if you're going to form a metal band then why the fuck would you want people playing different styles. IDIOT.

When you look at the bigger picture of musical genres, I wouldn't imagine that metal is hated that much more... And half of the people that get pissy when they're told metal sucks are complete hypocrites and would insult someone if they listened to rap for example.

In conclusion, EVERYONE IS AN ASSHOLE ABOUT MUSIC, even me: country fucking blows!

Thank you for reading this barely coherent rambling.

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OlioTheSmall
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Location: Squatter's Crog, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 1:24 am 
 

:lol: ^^^ That post is most likely the best thing I'm gonna read all day and maybe all week.
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agentsteel666
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:34 pm 
 

"People that only like one genre of music (whether it be metal, jazz or even contemporary r&b (ugh)) yet won't instantly shun music just because of it's genre, if they'll give it a go then that's cool with me."

Well, although I don't only listen to one genre of music, there are times when I'm in a mood to hear metal and only metal. If someone wants to play an R&B song, I will refuse to play it because I would be against that shit at that time. It's not to say that I wouldn't ever give it a listen sometime later, but I get into moods where I just want to hear metal, metal, and more metal. It has to be pure, 100% metal or I get pissed off.

And besides, if you've already listened to a genre of music a million different times and you don't like it, chances are you aren't going to like it when some random song that you've never heard of comes up. I don't automatically think that all rap or all country sucks, but there is a very, VERY high chance that if someone were to suggest a rap song for me to listen to right now that I wouldn't like it. And I'm not even in a metal mood.

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wolvie90
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:06 pm 
 

Why do people keep bitching about being open minded? I'm a close minded person when it comes to music. I listen to metal, mainly death metal because it's the kind of music I like the most. It takes a great deal to appreciate that kind of music and it's nothing you fall for the first time you hear it. It just sticks to me more and more after every listen. I'm not going to compromise my playlist just for the sake of diversity.

I'm close minded and damn proud of it. Anyone have the lack of life to actually care about MY musical taste can kiss my ass.

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VampireKiller
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Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:21 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:58 pm 
 

wolvie90 wrote:
Why do people keep bitching about being open minded? I'm a close minded person when it comes to music. I listen to metal, mainly death metal because it's the kind of music I like the most. It takes a great deal to appreciate that kind of music and it's nothing you fall for the first time you hear it. It just sticks to me more and more after every listen. I'm not going to compromise my playlist just for the sake of diversity.

I'm close minded and damn proud of it. Anyone have the lack of life to actually care about MY musical taste can kiss my ass.


Are we twins or something? :hail:

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:10 pm 
 

Yeah, I don't find myself caring about being "close minded" these days, but I find that listening to a wide variety of music is fun and spices up life. I like having a wide variety of things to listen to, learning new forms of music, etc.
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Oflick
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:59 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
Not to derail the thread too much, but on the topic of not being able to take a hint, I used to have a friend who got really pissed whenever people called Rage Against the Machine simply Rage. He argued that it was very confusing for him because of the German band Rage and could not tell which one people were referring to. I basically got pissed off with the guy's idiocy and said to him "Dude, when you see the average person talking about a band called "Rage", do you really think they're referring to the German band that not many people outside of metal circles know about or the much more popular rock group from the U.S.?


I used to be a bit like that, I always got annoyed when people abbreviated System of a Down as SOD instead of SOAD because SOD is Stormtroopers of Death to me. But I guess it's the same scenario, who is the average person more likely to be referring to.

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LindisfarneAnno793
Metalhead

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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:11 pm 
 

Oflick wrote:
Viral wrote:
Not to derail the thread too much, but on the topic of not being able to take a hint, I used to have a friend who got really pissed whenever people called Rage Against the Machine simply Rage. He argued that it was very confusing for him because of the German band Rage and could not tell which one people were referring to. I basically got pissed off with the guy's idiocy and said to him "Dude, when you see the average person talking about a band called "Rage", do you really think they're referring to the German band that not many people outside of metal circles know about or the much more popular rock group from the U.S.?


I used to be a bit like that, I always got annoyed when people abbreviated System of a Down as SOD instead of SOAD because SOD is Stormtroopers of Death to me. But I guess it's the same scenario, who is the average person more likely to be referring to.


Yeah, it really just comes down to common sense, in the same sense that if someone says "USA", they are probably not referring to the Unholy Solicitors Alliance. In spite of all the grandiose and more or less fanciful notions of intellectual superiority harboured by many a metalhead, metalheads seem to be just as prone to idiocy as anyone.

If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is when people arrogantly assume that they will always be understood, and react with disdain when they are not.
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Nochielo
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Location: Puerto Rico
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:39 am 
 

Zetan wrote:
Nochielo wrote:
I'm willing to bet the dude is a Christian fanatic. That speaks for itself. You have a goal, and you require a certain type of person to achieve that goal. For example, if a construction company needs to finish a project and they need a plumber, they are not going to hire an architect. That doesn't mean that the company hates architects, they just have no use for one at the moment.


Wow.. Really.

That is a leap of faith.... Or should I say: A jump to a conclusion.

I'm willing to bet you do this often.. I mean, there was no mention anywhere in that post that had any relation to religion, other than a metaphorical one.

Quote:
Heavy metal is practically a religion for me. It would be like telling a Muslim or a Buddhist to start accepting and embracing all forms of religion instead of just one.

I understand your point of view and respect it. However I have been misunderstood. I meant to say that people who usually think, or behave this way are Christian FANATICS. I know many religious people that respect my beliefs and tastes. I also specified that I'M WILLING TO BET. That means I definitely could be wrong, but still most fanatics think this way and I am merely pointing it out. If you are Christian, I am sorry if I offended you, and I congratulate you for being open-minded enough to listen to metal. Thanks for the critic.

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Zetan
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:54 am
Posts: 168
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:14 am 
 

Nochielo wrote:
Thanks for the critic. I meant to say that usually Christian fanatics are those who behave like this. When I said:"I'm willing to bet..." means that I believe this was the case. I could be wrong, but I didn't say I was sure that the guy was Christian. Sorry if I offended you, and thanks again.


No back pedaling! ;]

I will apologise however for jumping on it. Some in house fighting between myself and another team member on another board is making me a bit tetchy.. and when that happens, deal with it and maybe keep low for a while.


So, umm.. apologies to anybody else I probably snapped at last week/month.
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