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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:56 pm 
 

Probably this question will sound strange to most of you, since thrash metal is usually very respected among metalheads and is often a gateway to the more extreme genres of metal, but I simply don't get the appeal behind this genre. The heavier bands in this genre sound like a light version of death metal, while the more melodic and lighter stuff is a worse version of melodeath or power metal to me. Also, I can't get behind the vocals, they sound laughable to me.

So could you please tell me what attracts you to this genre? Is it a nostalgia thing (for people who got into thrash before black and death metal), or does this genre have anything that other genres don't?

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2306
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:18 pm 
 

Riffs

Spoiler: show
Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

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Youtube: show

Youtube: show
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Last edited by Temple Of Blood on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:37 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:23 pm 
 

Okay, starting with the most famous band ever, I'm just curious how Metallica is melodeath and power metal.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:25 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Riffs

Spoiler: show
Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Youtube: show

Thank you for responding. These songs definitely sound better than what I heard from the big 4, I could see the appeal behind them. I am not really a fan of these clean vocals though. Still I think melodeath is better at this sound than thrash metal.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:26 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
Still I think melodeath is better at this sound than thrash metal.


Melodeath has weak, horrible, unimaginative riffing.

Name some melodeath songs with riffs this good.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:33 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Okay, starting with the most famous band ever, I'm just curious how Metallica is melodeath and power metal.

I never said they are melodeath or power metal, they are just worse at melody, heaviness and vocals to me compared to melodeath.

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Melodeath has weak, horrible, unimaginative riffing.
Name some melodeath songs with riffs this good.

This is subjective, since I believe these riffs aren't that great. Death metal does a better job at creating heavy, crushing riffs, and the vocals are also better.

While I agree that a lot of melodeath bands have unimaginative riffs, some melodeath/power metal bands still have a lot of good ones, like Children of Bodom or Wintersun. I also haven't encountered a thrash metal band with complex songwriting and atmosphere like some of the melodeath bands, but probably I just don't know about them.

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Dustroy_Troly
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:36 pm 
 

I think thrash is the best metal genre for conveying pure frenzied energy. This is a bit of a generalization as obviously there's different sounds within thrash but it just sounds restless and riotous.

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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:38 pm 
 

Dustroy_Troly wrote:
I think thrash is the best metal genre for conveying pure frenzied energy. This is a bit of a generalization as obviously there's different sounds within thrash but it just sounds restless and riotous.

I see the energy behind thrash metal, but isn't grindcore/goregrind/slam death better at it?

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at the gaytes
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
Posts: 267
Location: Bangladesh
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:39 pm 
 

Like said above, it's all about riffs. The melodeath comparison is kind of weird, I'm yet to hear a melodic death album that is not complete or more than 50% shit and all of them sounded more like power metal with tremolo riffs than thrash metal

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:40 pm 
 

Most death metal is tuneless, tin-eared, tone deaf garbage. Of course it is "heavier", but certainly not better.

Mortician is "heavier" than melodeath, but so what?

The actual "melodies" in melodeath are usually kindergarten -level stuff. Thrash metal does far more interesting things with melody than any melodeath band has ever done.
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Rippingheadache
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:42 pm
Posts: 879
Location: Vietnam
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:43 pm 
 

Because I love violent, rowdy music with lots of unpredictable rhythmic transitions.

Demolition Hammer - Epidemic of Violence
Sepultura - Schizophrenia
Morbid Saint - Spectrum of Death
Pestilence - Malleus Maleficarum
Insanity - Death after Death

are great examples of the "riff salad" approach that I love. There's an immediacy and swagger to the style that I simply don't find in a lot of death metal. That, and it doesn't have those saccharine melodies that I can't stand in power metal or melodeath. To each their own really.

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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:45 pm 
 

at the gaytes wrote:
Like said above, it's all about riffs. The melodeath comparison is kind of weird, I'm yet to hear a melodic death album that is not complete or more than 50% shit and all of them sounded more like power metal with tremolo riffs than thrash metal

Ok, I see what you mean. Probably I am not really a riff guy, since I tend to like the atmosphere and songwriting more, as long as there are at least some cool riffs, like Insomnium or Wintersun.
Temple Of Blood wrote:
Most death metal is tuneless, tin-eared, tone deaf garbage. Of course it is "heavier", but certainly not better.

Mortician is "heavier" than melodeath, but so what?

The actual "melodies" in melodeath are usually kindergarten -level stuff. Thrash metal does far more interesting things with melody than any melodeath band has ever done.

Not all death metal is like that, I think bands like Bolt Thrower have great riffs, while being really heavy.

Thank you all for your responses, now I see why thrash metal is appealing to some people. Perhaps I will get into this genre later.


Last edited by Diplomate on Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:46 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
they are just worse at melody, heaviness and vocals to me compared to melodeath.

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Most death metal is tuneless, tin-eared, tone deaf garbage. Of course it is "heavier", but certainly not better.

Anyone who wonders why people believe in chemtrails and stuff like this, it's probably when they see things on the internet that can't be explained without heavy chemicals involved.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:48 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Anyone who wonders why people believe in chemtrails and stuff like this, it's probably when they see things on the internet that can't be explained without heavy chemicals involved.

I retract my statement about heaviness and melodies, but I still don't like thrash vocals. Honestly, I dislike power and trad vocals too, so to each his own, indeed.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2306
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:59 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
Not all death metal is like that


Of course not. There's a lot of death metal out there that I love.

If you hate these vocals (a personal preference), but like thrash riffs/drumming/energy, try these albums:

SADUS - Swallowed in Black
DARK ANGEL - Darkness Descends
POSSESSED - The Eye of Horror

Also, there are plenty of good death/thrash metal bands. There are also the earliest death metal bands like Death that might appeal to you.
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Last edited by Temple Of Blood on Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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at the gaytes
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:07 pm
Posts: 267
Location: Bangladesh
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:00 pm 
 

Well, thrash has plenty of songwriting. Compare Reign in Blood and Darkness Descends, both extremely similar albums released at the same time. One of them is clearly the fastest, heaviest, full of riffs and more extreme, but it was the other that achieved full classic status, just because of the superior songwriting

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Dustroy_Troly
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:29 pm
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:02 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
Dustroy_Troly wrote:
I think thrash is the best metal genre for conveying pure frenzied energy. This is a bit of a generalization as obviously there's different sounds within thrash but it just sounds restless and riotous.

I see the energy behind thrash metal, but isn't grindcore/goregrind/slam death better at it?

I'm not really an expert in any of those genres but, no, definitely not for me. Too much blasting detracts from volatile energy for me.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:05 pm 
 

To me, a blast can sound like half-speed compared to, say, when Agent Orange really kicks in.

And speaking of that, you might enjoy SODOM too.
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Last edited by Temple Of Blood on Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Diplomate
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:04 pm
Posts: 95
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:05 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Of course not. There's a lot of death metal out there that I love.

If you hate these vocals (a personal preference), but like thrash riffs/drumming/energy, try these albums:

SADUS - Swallowed in Black
DARK ANGEL - Darkness Descends

I listened to Sadus a little bit, I can get behind that. I see a niche for this kind of stuff in my musical interests.

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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:21 pm 
 

It's an extremely weird thread that's full of people basically saying they like something because they dislike something else, or they dislike something because they like something else, like "I like thrash metal because it's not death metal", "I like thrash metal because it's not grindcore", "I dislike thrash metal because it's not melodeath", it's weird, I wonder how this thread would have played out with most people saying why they like or dislike thrash metal without having to refer to another genre.

But hell, it's how Seth MacFarlane gets The Orville sold, so I can't complain.
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Vadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:14 pm
Posts: 114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:22 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Diplomate wrote:
they are just worse at melody, heaviness and vocals to me compared to melodeath.

Temple Of Blood wrote:
Most death metal is tuneless, tin-eared, tone deaf garbage. Of course it is "heavier", but certainly not better.

Anyone who wonders why people believe in chemtrails and stuff like this, it's probably when they see things on the internet that can't be explained without heavy chemicals involved.

Temple is being hyperbolic but there is absolutely a strain of death metal that focuses so heavily on being dissonant and chaotic it forgets to actually have good riffs.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 496
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:01 pm 
 

Diplomate wrote:
So could you please tell me what attracts you to this genre?


What for? Are you planning on forcing yourself into liking it? I doubt this will be the thread were someone will come up with the ultimate reason as to why you should like X thing.

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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:07 pm 
 

blackmantram wrote:
I doubt this will be the thread were someone will come up with the ultimate reason as to why you should like X thing.

It's either self-evident or it isn't.
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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
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Location: Behind the wall of fire
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:54 pm 
 

I'm not terribly fond of thrash either because I feel it's a narrower musical field than doom or death metal (for example), but I think people are mostly here for speed and excitement, which come as a product of the riffs and that - sometimes annoying - in-your-face vocal style. I'm more of a fan of crossover thrash than the classic stuff, since I feel it gets to the point quicker and doesn't skimp on great time changes and pace. Since the verses tend to be much shorter, we get less annoying vocal time too. Maybe check out D.R.I., SSS, Municipal Waste, Toxic Holocaust, or (though not really crossover) Gama Bomb.

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thrashinbatman
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:31 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:16 pm 
 

It's a great middle-ground between most other major genres of music. Sure, power metal is more melodic and death metal is heavier, but power metal often forgets to be aggressive and death metal often forgets to be catchy. When I listen to Anthrax, Exodus, Heathen, Megadeth, Onslaught, etc. I get aggression, but also a focus on riffs and on songwriting.

Thrash is sort of what I expect metal to sound like, and the further it gets from the thrash the less I find I tend to like it. The focus on tasty riffs and the frequent use of the skank beat is what really appeals to me. But given you don't like thrash, nor do you like traditional vocals, I'm not really sure what I can say to make you specifically like it.

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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 pm 
 

It's rhythmically-focused. Death metal and black metal are full of boring guitar rhythms; tremolo riffs that just play four/eight/sixteen/etc note patterns within a couple chords, evenly-spaced strumming of 8th note chords, slam "grooves" which are just three-note chromatic chugs, etc. Thrash can be just as intense as other forms of extreme metal but it's generally far superior rhythmically. The best death metal albums are usually those that have substantial thrash riffing remaining, e.g. Consuming Impulse. No reliance on blast beats in thrash either which, and while blasts are fine in moderation, they're frequently used by death and black metal to further create songs that are rhythmically homogeneous.

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lupin99
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:05 am 
 

This is why I stick to doom metal!

But in all seriousness i never got into thrash i feel it can a bit repetitive sure i enjoy the first 4 Metallica along with Slayers first 5 albums, the rest? Not so much. I do like blackened thrash that has that venom early slayer vibe.

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wednesdaysixx
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jun 20, 2015 5:09 pm
Posts: 121
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:55 am 
 

I think it’s a gateway and a middle-point. The epicness of power metal without the cheese. The weight and intensity of death or black metal without losing enough melody to be inaccessible to newcomers to metal. The speed and melodies of NWOBHM but taken further to advance things. Also some of these releases were influential and nothing sounded like that (as far as many were concerned) at the time.

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TheFinalSleep
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:49 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:24 am 
 

The appeal was that 'back in the day' nothing 'extreme' like that existed. It was a new and fresh take on what came before it. The speed and aggression was unheard of at that point.

It's rise was also during the time when cock-rock was at it's height in popularity and for those that absolutely hated that fluffy, limp-wristed crap, it was the perfect middle-finger.

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HaPoStaPu
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:20 am
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Location: Armenia
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:08 am 
 

Similar to death metal, Afro-Funk and Gregorian chant, the main reason for people liking it is the music. I find it impossible to believe that anybody who likes metal can totally dismiss all thrash.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:26 am 
 

HaPoStaPu wrote:
I find it impossible to believe that anybody who likes metal can totally dismiss all thrash.


Agreed.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:24 am 
 

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of thrash either because I feel it's a narrower musical field than doom metal (for example)


Really????

I don't hear that at all.

To me, most doom metal is BORING although I'd rather hear Candlemass's "At the Gallows End" than most any thrash song.

I think there is a real problem with lazy musicians in doom metal too.
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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:45 am 
 

For me I like thrash for the headbangable riffs. Great intensity with the fast choppiness of the riffing, and high energy. It is like everything for me that groove metal tries to be, but falls short of. I can see the vocals being off-putting and some are more polarizing than others such as Sean Killian in Vio-lence. I like the aggression in vocals, and usually the more snarly or barking stuff than all the overly-happy stuff of the bay area inspired bands that have been popping up over the past 10 to 15 years or so. That 'pizza-thrash' sound of the more modern bands that some people call it just annoys me or is boring to me for the most part. Makes me think of what the late 90s early 2000 pop-punk bands were to punk.
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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:51 am 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
gasmask_colostomy wrote:
I'm not terribly fond of thrash either because I feel it's a narrower musical field than doom metal (for example)


Really????

I don't hear that at all.

To me, most doom metal is BORING although I'd rather hear Candlemass's "At the Gallows End" than most any thrash song.

I think there is a real problem with lazy musicians in doom metal too.

I was actually just about to comment on the previous post with my own “Really???” but I guess this’ll have to do. If I were solely a fan of sludge, doom, drone, and stoner, I don’t see how that would make me an obvious candidate to enjoy thrash, either sonically or aesthetically. You can find some common ground, though you’d be just as likely to enjoy any other form of music.

In terms of “narrowness” I’d agree it depends what kind of thrash or doom you’re listening to, though I often feel overwhelmed by the same traits being needlessly adopted by a million thrash bands and the songs often feeling similar. That feeling comes because of certain generic ideas of what a thrash song “must” contain, such as gang vocals, fast rhythmic riffs, similarly positioned lead breaks, and so on.

I’m aware those criticisms are equally true of doom metal if you change a few words, but there just seems to be a lot more thrash out there and it’s a genre with a much bigger fan base. That means you’ll hear those same formulas repeated more times, while bands that do diverge from thrash orthodoxy get called posers by the mass or lack some of the essential “thrashiness” of the genre.

Lots of mindless doom bands exist, but it’s much easier for me to ignore their existence and focus on different aspects of the genre. Doom can be massively heavily, strongly emotional, quiet and contemplative, super epic, otherworldly, or simply just fun. I don’t feel thrash really has the potential to do ALL those things, certainly not as often as doom.

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rexxz
Where's your band?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:16 pm 
 

This is a terrible thread. Why do people feel the need to ask why something is appealing or not? You don't need first-hand responses to something extremely obvious. Go read a review and see what people say about albums they rate highly; therein lies your answer.
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schizoid
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:47 pm 
 

Imagine never having heard a thrash song/album that appealed to you. A sad existence if there ever was one.
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Epicureo
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:57 pm
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Location: Italy
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:48 pm 
 

What a bizarre thread.
You might want to delve deeper into all things thrash before writing silly statements like:
Quote:
The heavier bands in this genre sound like a light version of death metal, while the more melodic and lighter stuff is a worse version of melodeath or power metal to me. Also, I can't get behind the vocals, they sound laughable to me.


The latest Ares Kingdom album might be a good starting point for you.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:17 pm 
 

I can only guess that the OP is very new to metal. As thrash is actually quite a broad sound (more so than a lot of people might give it credit for) and its influences tends to seep all other the place. Essentially, if someone says they outright hate all thrash - they probably don't like metal much.
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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:27 pm 
 

schizoid wrote:
Imagine never having heard a thrash song/album that appealed to you. A sad existence if there ever was one.


So true.
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Necronipple
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:58 am
Posts: 304
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:17 pm 
 

Do the vocals sound laughable on this song? I don't think so.

Spoiler: show
Youtube: show


Thrash is all about the riffs. Honestly, I don't how anyone can listen to Dead Embryonic Cells and not love it.

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