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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5158
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 5:45 pm 
 

I know that by phrasing it like I did in the title, I'm bound to have a bunch of people coming in here to tell me I'm talking non-sense by chosing Teitanblood as my go to band for just how extreme (and still good) black and death metal can get, but I still kind of wanted to take that angle since everytime I listen to Teitanblood, this is kind of how I feel about them: They are basically the best band, IMHO, to push the extremity of both black and death metal together, to make it as brutal and intense as it can be, while still being good in the song-writing department. What I mean by this is that, yes you can be more extreme by playing and indecipherable wall of noise, but Teitanblood is extreme, saturated, brutal, brickwalled, and there are still distinctive riffs coming through.

Now what I want to discuss more specifically in this thread is just how much more can we push the extremes in the "extreme metal" subgenres, and what other bands are doing it, maybe just as well or better then Teitanblood in your opinion. And also, I want to know how we can push the extremes further. Is mixing death and black the best way to accomplish this?

With "extremeness" being such a subjective term, I'm expecting us not to agree on the definition, of course, but I'm still throwing this out there, hoping that people will feel like contributing to the thread.

I will share more personnal thoughts later, if people jump in, as I want to hear others opinions before nuancing my original position.

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Ghost of Christmas Last
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:37 pm
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:05 pm 
 

In this genre my favourite has to be Pseudogod. I also remember someone saying that Swallowed are "Teitanblood only if they were a better band", which is a somewhat reductive view but one that is not easy to shake off once you hear the similarities. Neither of those bands will probably release any new material - ever, and I am not sure if Teitanblood themselves inspired a thriving scene either.

DSBM, BDM, grindcore, even OSDM back in the day - every other band on the block seems to be doing the oppressive brickwall within their own genre. I suppose the right question would be whether it best serves the purpose of the intention behind the extremity, which as paradoxical as it may sound is to connect with the listener. Quality of such a connection is a subjective matter, therefore in this context we can only observe the quantity. It follows that the bigger scene resonates better with the public, which would make the DSBM the clear winner today.

In the future I can definitely see the extremity channelled into a most cacophonous experience enabled by surround sound technology. Think an album sprinkled with all sorts of theatrics coming from all areas of the sonic space (for that spooky feeling, some sounds can be made to sound as if coming from the listener's head). Prime example would be Tetragrammacide amplified fivefold or suchlike. Also toss in some subsonic frequencies of most dubious purpose and we got ourselves a fine concoction.

I also see how AI could be used to generate ideas for the flavour-of-the-month metal, and in fact if anything metal would be more receptive to such experimentation than other genres such as pop which tend to play it safe most times. Then again, AI itself will probably suggest us more of the same black/death with odd random sprinkles here and there.

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robotniq
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:08 am
Posts: 373
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:29 pm 
 

I have a soft spot for that first Antediluvian album, but I think Parabellum did it best on "Sacrilegio" back in the eighties.

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4652
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:31 pm 
 

Nice, a thread made for me! Death is 100% the best extreme metal album in my book. Guitars could be a bit louder and more defined (The Baneful Choir sounds a bit better imho) but other than that it's perfect.

That said, I believe death metal is "more extreme" than black metal on a general basis. Black metal even in its rawest and more lo-fi forms is still melodic to a degree. Death metal is much more prone to being atonal, murky and savage. Specially when mixed with harsh noise, grindcore and other extreme genres. I consider Teitanblood to be mostly a death metal band influenced by other genres (mainly black metal, doom metal and crust punk) though.

That said, here are a few other examples of great extreme metal bands that (kind of) pushed the limit a bit further and are great in my opinion. Not just an incoherent mess with Cookie Monster vocals like Revenge or the Indian war/noise scene (Tetragrammacide are cool though). Each of them has a different approach to being extreme: some toy with murky atonal droney productions, others are a technical riff-fest, some mix harsh noise with war metal, etc.

- Triumvir Foul: if you like Teitanblood, you'll provably love Triumvir Foul too. Same approach, though Triumvir's later stuff is a bit more influenced by early Morbid Angel.


- Tettragrammacide: a lot of their stuff is borderline unlistenable harsh noise but their war metal album is great and pretty extreme if you ask me.
https://ironboneheadproductions.bandcam ... ral-matrix

-Antediluvian: another one on the murky cavernous death metal with a really weird and fucked up approach to vocals and guitar tone.


- Concrete Winds: more caustic than most other modern death metal bands in terms of intensity. Non stop death metal meets grindcore with noisy riffs. Think Sad Ex meets Voivod and they go grindcore. Kind of.


- Knelt Rote: black/death/war metal/grindcore/noise/whatever. They're just over the top in the best possible way.


- Infernal Coil: another black/death/war metal/grindocre metal band with with a wall of noise approach to production. Riffs buried behind a wall of droney riff salad and pummeling drums.


- Grave Upheaval: their first untitled album is almost a drone metal album, the guitars are so fucking murky and indecipherable the music is hard to follow. Think of Sonn O))) playing caveman death metal.
https://graveupheaval.bandcamp.com/album/--4

- Hissing: technical death metal mixed with noise rock with a very discordant and chaotic approach. If my minds serves me right, their objective while doing this album was to make music as ugly and disgusting as they could, with tempo shifts and extremely chaotic and erratic structures.


- Pyrrhon: dissonant/technical death metal/mathore/avantgarde/sludge insanity. Man is the Bastard goes Gorguts.


- Imperial Triumphant: while they have stuff that is more accessible, Vile Luxury is a hard one. The disjointed, noisy one note riffs with a super opaque production and no-wave noise rock build ups make this one pretty extreme in my opinion.


- Ad nauseam: their intensity derives mainly from their overwhelming ability to play dissonant non stop ultra technical double riffage to the point of saturating the compositions. Repeated listens dampen the effect but Imperative Imperceptible Impulse is a really cool approach.
https://adnauseam-official.bandcamp.com ... range-dr11

- Deathspell Omega: some of their stuff is pretty extreme for the same reasons a few of the bands above made my list. They need no further introduction.


- No Faith: poweviolence/harsh noise band. Probably a bit more on the hardcore side than the metal one but still worth mentioning.


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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4652
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:42 pm 
 

Some other stuff worth checking in the vein of the bands I already recommended:

- Adversarial
- Black Curse
- Coscradh
- Diocletian
- Malthusian
- Qrixkuor
- Seputus
- Succumb
- Swallowed
- Unyielding Love

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Hecatomb867
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm
Posts: 247
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 8:45 pm 
 

I'd also add Ascended Dead, Eskhaton and Ceremonial Bloodbath.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:55 pm 
 

Death is certainly one of the best in the style.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 9:56 pm 
 

Hecatomb867 wrote:
Ascended Dead, Eskhaton


Good to see a fan of these bands, but i find them unrelated to the style of Teitanblood.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:00 pm 
 

I'd say Impetuous Ritual are the ultimate. Three frightening, layered, and savage albums of black/death kaoz.

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Nocturnal_Evil
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:00 am
Posts: 668
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:26 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Now what I want to discuss more specifically in this thread is just how much more can we push the extremes in the "extreme metal" subgenres, and what other bands are doing it, maybe just as well or better then Teitanblood in your opinion. And also, I want to know how we can push the extremes further. Is mixing death and black the best way to accomplish this?

With "extremeness" being such a subjective term, I'm expecting us not to agree on the definition, of course, but I'm still throwing this out there, hoping that people will feel like contributing to the thread.


I love a lot of extreme metal bands, but always find myself coming back to Anaal Nathrakh. They just have a blend of black/death/grind, and noise which his the spot and manage to surpass other heavyweights (pun intended) with the sheer brutality of their riffs, despite occasionally having some pretty slick production. The fact that they have melodic bits doesn't change things for me either, and even with their inclusion, tracks from stuff like Eschaton and Domine Non Est Dignus are punishing as all hell.
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 10:46 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Diocletian


Doom Cult and War Of All Against All are genre milestones.

Death Ordinance as well for more Kiwi cult!

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LilTito
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 3:10 pm
Posts: 694
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2022 11:36 pm 
 

great topic, the "riffs buried under a noise wall" is a sexy thing to me too, so let's keep this in the vein of black/death

Abyssal. No further commenting needed, check them out now!

Secoding the Infernal coil name drop

Obligatory Deathspell mention but they're always the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of the said topic, although their production is rather clean but its simply chaotic and first time listeners are not supposed to like it immediately hahah... i recommend Fas - ite,... The synarchy... and Chaining the katechon

Esoctrilihum's last few albums

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Demon Fang
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:42 am
Posts: 538
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 12:52 am 
 

LilTito wrote:
Esoctrilihum's last few albums

Particularly the second to last one that makes up for a relative lack of otherworldliness with heavier riffs.

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Lagartija
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:27 am
Posts: 2042
Location: Catalunya
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:46 am 
 

Always happy to see love for Teitanblood, being fellow countrymen and all :thumbsup:

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:49 am 
 

I'd choose Azarath and even Arkhon Infaustus any day over Teitanblood; any day, every day.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:18 am 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
I'd choose Azarath and even Arkhon Infaustus any day over Teitanblood; any day, every day.


Not real comparably are they?

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 8:26 am 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
kovner1972 wrote:
I'd choose Azarath and even Arkhon Infaustus any day over Teitanblood; any day, every day.


Not real comparably are they?


And why's that?

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M_Mosher
JFC GDI

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2022 11:43 am
Posts: 69
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 5:38 pm 
 

Ghost of Christmas Last wrote:
In this genre my favourite has to be Pseudogod. I also remember someone saying that Swallowed are "Teitanblood only if they were a better band", which is a somewhat reductive view but one that is not easy to shake off once you hear the similarities. Neither of those bands will probably release any new material - ever, and I am not sure if Teitanblood themselves inspired a thriving scene either.

DSBM, BDM, grindcore, even OSDM back in the day - every other band on the block seems to be doing the oppressive brickwall within their own genre. I suppose the right question would be whether it best serves the purpose of the intention behind the extremity, which as paradoxical as it may sound is to connect with the listener. Quality of such a connection is a subjective matter, therefore in this context we can only observe the quantity. It follows that the bigger scene resonates better with the public, which would make the DSBM the clear winner today.

In the future I can definitely see the extremity channelled into a most cacophonous experience enabled by surround sound technology. Think an album sprinkled with all sorts of theatrics coming from all areas of the sonic space (for that spooky feeling, some sounds can be made to sound as if coming from the listener's head). Prime example would be Tetragrammacide amplified fivefold or suchlike. Also toss in some subsonic frequencies of most dubious purpose and we got ourselves a fine concoction.

I also see how AI could be used to generate ideas for the flavour-of-the-month metal, and in fact if anything metal would be more receptive to such experimentation than other genres such as pop which tend to play it safe most times. Then again, AI itself will probably suggest us more of the same black/death with odd random sprinkles here and there.


In my view the above is a good assessment, and I think I'm in full agreement with it.

I can't say I've listened to much Teitanblood (a minute or two of 1 song within the last month or so, just to check them out briefly), but the topic of pushed extremity in Metal (and BM in particular) is interesting to me.

There's this band from Quebec (now defunct) called Unquintessence, which may be suitable for this subject. Here's a link to their EP "Ruined" on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... zufC4JC03k
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5953
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 6:57 pm 
 

For the life of me I can't hear riffs in Teitanblood, at least on the album I've heard. I think they're exceptionally boring.

I guess Adversarial would be the best of the bands in that... war metal by way of death metal thing? Absolute riff monsters both albums, it's a shame the first one has such a terrible sound. Pissgrave's demo and first album are also amazing. I'm also a big fan of We Are Death onwards Sadistik Execution, but obviously they're not as single minded in the uptempo carnage.

I guess goregrindy stuff would also fit? Last Days of Humanity obviously have a few utterly mindfucking walls of sound, I also got a lot out Human Corpse Abuse from this year.
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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2022 7:37 pm 
 

kovner1972 wrote:
lennonlikesmetal wrote:
kovner1972 wrote:
I'd choose Azarath and even Arkhon Infaustus any day over Teitanblood; any day, every day.


Not real comparably are they?


And why's that?



Azarath are not nearly as dense or murky. Closer to Impiety.

Arkhon Infaustus are chaotic black/death, but kinda messy. No actual dark atmosphere though.

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Hecatomb867
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:56 pm
Posts: 247
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 3:08 am 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
Hecatomb867 wrote:
Ascended Dead, Eskhaton


Good to see a fan of these bands, but i find them unrelated to the style of Teitanblood.


Lol, this is the most unnecessary, pedantic response imaginable.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:07 am 
 

Hecatomb867 wrote:
lennonlikesmetal wrote:
Hecatomb867 wrote:
Ascended Dead, Eskhaton


Good to see a fan of these bands, but i find them unrelated to the style of Teitanblood.


Lol, this is the most unnecessary, pedantic response imaginable.


Abhorrent Manifestation is a classic, and the new Eskhaton EP might be their most brutal yet.

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kovner1972
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:33 pm
Posts: 435
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 7:32 am 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:


Azarath are not nearly as dense or murky. Closer to Impiety.

Arkhon Infaustus are chaotic black/death, but kinda messy. No actual dark atmosphere though.


You need to do some catching up in regards to Arkhon Infaustus; have you listened to their recent stuff even? And Azarath are not dense? They are the heaviest thing around, and their song writing is superb! If by dense you mean no song writing skills and only atmosphere, than you may be correct.

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 4652
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:26 am 
 

I don't know, maybe it's just me but Azarath sound like a lot other death metal bands in terms of intensity. I'd even say they are pretty melodic and even catchy at times. Not that being catchy and melodic is a bad thing, but probably not what this thread is about. They remind me of Krisiun, Belphegor, etc.

As for Arkhon Infaustus, what is their recent stuff exactly? Passing the Nekromanteion? They haven't released anything else since 2007. I like that one but I don't think it stands out in terms of aggression. It's very mid paced.

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 5158
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 4:44 pm 
 

So after a few days of celebration and parties for Christmas, I'm back to my thread. Here comes the huge post where I shove answers to 20 different posts :D

Ghost of Christmas Last wrote:
In this genre my favourite has to be Pseudogod. I also remember someone saying that Swallowed are "Teitanblood only if they were a better band", which is a somewhat reductive view but one that is not easy to shake off once you hear the similarities. Neither of those bands will probably release any new material - ever, and I am not sure if Teitanblood themselves inspired a thriving scene either.

DSBM, BDM, grindcore, even OSDM back in the day - every other band on the block seems to be doing the oppressive brickwall within their own genre. I suppose the right question would be whether it best serves the purpose of the intention behind the extremity, which as paradoxical as it may sound is to connect with the listener. Quality of such a connection is a subjective matter, therefore in this context we can only observe the quantity. It follows that the bigger scene resonates better with the public, which would make the DSBM the clear winner today.

In the future I can definitely see the extremity channelled into a most cacophonous experience enabled by surround sound technology. Think an album sprinkled with all sorts of theatrics coming from all areas of the sonic space (for that spooky feeling, some sounds can be made to sound as if coming from the listener's head). Prime example would be Tetragrammacide amplified fivefold or suchlike. Also toss in some subsonic frequencies of most dubious purpose and we got ourselves a fine concoction.

I also see how AI could be used to generate ideas for the flavour-of-the-month metal, and in fact if anything metal would be more receptive to such experimentation than other genres such as pop which tend to play it safe most times. Then again, AI itself will probably suggest us more of the same black/death with odd random sprinkles here and there.


Very interesting take/POV, although I can't really get behind an analysis that would ever use popularity as a metric to evaluate anything related to artistry. DSBM sure seems to resonate with more people, even if I can't really understand with it seems how it has such broad appeal, but that's not really what I'm looking for here.

Still, your take is very interesting, and I'll definitely try Pseudogod and Swallowed.

Gravetemplar wrote:
Nice, a thread made for me! Death is 100% the best extreme metal album in my book. Guitars could be a bit louder and more defined (The Baneful Choir sounds a bit better imho) but other than that it's perfect.

That said, I believe death metal is "more extreme" than black metal on a general basis. Black metal even in its rawest and more lo-fi forms is still melodic to a degree. Death metal is much more prone to being atonal, murky and savage. Specially when mixed with harsh noise, grindcore and other extreme genres. I consider Teitanblood to be mostly a death metal band influenced by other genres (mainly black metal, doom metal and crust punk) though.


I think I remember you saying you loved Teitanblood's Death in another thread, which is also part of how I came up with the idea for this thread. I had been juggling with this thread idea for a little bit because whenever I revisit Death I'm impressed by just how brutal, saturated and violent it is, while retaining a lot of quality song-writing. Which is not always the case in the whole death/black or war metal subgenre.

I tend to agree that it's one of the best, if not the best in that realm.

I don't think death metal is inherently more extreme then black metal. There was some raw, brutal and deeply unmelodic black metal around as early as the 2nd wave. The French black metal scene also has some truly gritty and raw stuff. I remember when I first encountered Balrog with their Ars Talionis record. I was blown away by just how evil and dirty it sounded.

Gravetemplar wrote:
That said, here are a few other examples of great extreme metal bands that (kind of) pushed the limit a bit further and are great in my opinion. Not just an incoherent mess with Cookie Monster vocals like Revenge or the Indian war/noise scene (Tetragrammacide are cool though). Each of them has a different approach to being extreme: some toy with murky atonal droney productions, others are a technical riff-fest, some mix harsh noise with war metal, etc.
Spoiler: show
- Triumvir Foul: if you like Teitanblood, you'll provably love Triumvir Foul too. Same approach, though Triumvir's later stuff is a bit more influenced by early Morbid Angel.


- Tettragrammacide: a lot of their stuff is borderline unlistenable harsh noise but their war metal album is great and pretty extreme if you ask me.
https://ironboneheadproductions.bandcam ... ral-matrix

-Antediluvian: another one on the murky cavernous death metal with a really weird and fucked up approach to vocals and guitar tone.


- Concrete Winds: more caustic than most other modern death metal bands in terms of intensity. Non stop death metal meets grindcore with noisy riffs. Think Sad Ex meets Voivod and they go grindcore. Kind of.


- Knelt Rote: black/death/war metal/grindcore/noise/whatever. They're just over the top in the best possible way.


- Infernal Coil: another black/death/war metal/grindocre metal band with with a wall of noise approach to production. Riffs buried behind a wall of droney riff salad and pummeling drums.


- Grave Upheaval: their first untitled album is almost a drone metal album, the guitars are so fucking murky and indecipherable the music is hard to follow. Think of Sonn O))) playing caveman death metal.
https://graveupheaval.bandcamp.com/album/--4

- Hissing: technical death metal mixed with noise rock with a very discordant and chaotic approach. If my minds serves me right, their objective while doing this album was to make music as ugly and disgusting as they could, with tempo shifts and extremely chaotic and erratic structures.


- Pyrrhon: dissonant/technical death metal/mathore/avantgarde/sludge insanity. Man is the Bastard goes Gorguts.


- Imperial Triumphant: while they have stuff that is more accessible, Vile Luxury is a hard one. The disjointed, noisy one note riffs with a super opaque production and no-wave noise rock build ups make this one pretty extreme in my opinion.


- Ad nauseam: their intensity derives mainly from their overwhelming ability to play dissonant non stop ultra technical double riffage to the point of saturating the compositions. Repeated listens dampen the effect but Imperative Imperceptible Impulse is a really cool approach.
https://adnauseam-official.bandcamp.com ... range-dr11

- Deathspell Omega: some of their stuff is pretty extreme for the same reasons a few of the bands above made my list. They need no further introduction.


- No Faith: poweviolence/harsh noise band. Probably a bit more on the hardcore side than the metal one but still worth mentioning.



I already know and a love a lot of these bands. Ad Nauseam, for instance, is the band I listened to the most through the last year. I fell in love with both of their records.

I'm also familiar with Triumvir Foul, Tettragrammacide, Knelt Rote, Infernal Coil, Grave Upheaval, Pyrrhon, Imperial Triumphant and Deathspell Omega, and will definitely listen to the other bands you listed that I do not know yet.

And I definitely agree with you that most of these bands are pushing the boundaries of extremeness in their own direction. I kind of tend to think that one of the best ways to push the boundaries is what we are seeing in the whole dissonant death and/or black metal scene, as it is done by bands like Pyrrhon, Ad Nauseam, Gorguts, Imperial Triumphant and Deathspell Omega.

Nocturnal_Evil wrote:
HeavenDuff wrote:
Now what I want to discuss more specifically in this thread is just how much more can we push the extremes in the "extreme metal" subgenres, and what other bands are doing it, maybe just as well or better then Teitanblood in your opinion. And also, I want to know how we can push the extremes further. Is mixing death and black the best way to accomplish this?

With "extremeness" being such a subjective term, I'm expecting us not to agree on the definition, of course, but I'm still throwing this out there, hoping that people will feel like contributing to the thread.


I love a lot of extreme metal bands, but always find myself coming back to Anaal Nathrakh. They just have a blend of black/death/grind, and noise which his the spot and manage to surpass other heavyweights (pun intended) with the sheer brutality of their riffs, despite occasionally having some pretty slick production. The fact that they have melodic bits doesn't change things for me either, and even with their inclusion, tracks from stuff like Eschaton and Domine Non Est Dignus are punishing as all hell.


This is definitely true! Anaal Nathrakh have recorded some of the most ominous, oppressive and right down brutal material there is. I think that the noise/industrial elements play a big role in this. I find this to be especially true of In the Constellation of the Black Widow, which has some of the most unhinged and violent tracks I've ever heard. The title track and More of Fire than Blood, are prime example of this.

LilTito wrote:
great topic, the "riffs buried under a noise wall" is a sexy thing to me too, so let's keep this in the vein of black/death

Abyssal. No further commenting needed, check them out now!


Another name added to my list of bands to listen to :)

Lagartija wrote:
Always happy to see love for Teitanblood, being fellow countrymen and all :thumbsup:


Catalunya triomfant!

lord_ghengis wrote:
For the life of me I can't hear riffs in Teitanblood, at least on the album I've heard. I think they're exceptionally boring.

I guess Adversarial would be the best of the bands in that... war metal by way of death metal thing? Absolute riff monsters both albums, it's a shame the first one has such a terrible sound. Pissgrave's demo and first album are also amazing. I'm also a big fan of We Are Death onwards Sadistik Execution, but obviously they're not as single minded in the uptempo carnage.

I guess goregrindy stuff would also fit? Last Days of Humanity obviously have a few utterly mindfucking walls of sound, I also got a lot out Human Corpse Abuse from this year.


I'm getting more and more into grindcore, and there is a thing to be said about how it's a genre that pushes the boundaries of extremeness in their own way, but goregrind almost never works for me because there is almost no song-writing to speak of within the subgenre. So it's not hitting that sweet spot for me that Teitanblood is hitting. Goregrind over the years has developped in such a specific way, that it's basically a parody genre at this point, it's crazy.

If you're not hearing the riffs in Teitanblood, I recommend revisiting the album Death, at least the first two tracks. And like Gravetemplar said, the album The Baneful Choir has a slightly cleaner production job, making it a bit easier to decipher what's going on through the wall of noise.

And if you don't like them after that, well I guess it's fine too ;)

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robotniq
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:02 pm 
 

I've been listening some more Teitanblood on the back of this thread. My sense is that they sound very cool, have great riffs, some awesome hardcore-inspired drumming and a megalithic production. However, I they lack that 'unhinged' element that makes Swallowed and Antediluvian so terrifying.
Some of this comes down to the riff style, but I think the drumming is equally important (if not more so). The beats on "Death" settle the songs into a wonderful groove but they are quite predictable.
This prevents the band from sounding as wild and bestial as those bands that take a looser, 'avant garde' approach. "Through the Cervix of Hawaah" and "Lunarterial" are much more interesting records from my perspective, particularly because of how the drums land.

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:10 pm 
 

robotiq wrote:
I've been listening some more Teitanblood on the back of this thread. My sense is that they sound very cool, have great riffs, some awesome hardcore-inspired drumming and a megalithic production. However, I they lack that 'unhinged' element that makes Swallowed and Antediluvian so terrifying.
Some of this comes down to the riff style, but I think the drumming is equally important (if not more so). The beats on "Death" settle the songs into a wonderful groove but they are quite predictable.
This prevents the band from sounding as wild and bestial as those bands that take a looser, 'avant garde' approach. "Through the Cervix of Hawaah" and "Lunarterial" are much more interesting records from my perspective, particularly because of how the drums land.


I definitely get what you mean. And someone could definitely make the argument that more unhinged and chaotic stuff, makes for more extreme metal. But in a way, I feel that the more predictable, monolithic and controlled qualities of Teitanblood, gives a feeling of an ominous presence, of impending, unavoidable doom. It's heavy, it's massive, it's threatening, you know it's coming, and you can't do anything to stop it. You know what I mean?

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robotniq
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 5:46 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
I definitely get what you mean. And someone could definitely make the argument that more unhinged and chaotic stuff, makes for more extreme metal. But in a way, I feel that the more predictable, monolithic and controlled qualities of Teitanblood, gives a feeling of an ominous presence, of impending, unavoidable doom. It's heavy, it's massive, it's threatening, you know it's coming, and you can't do anything to stop it. You know what I mean?


Yes that makes sense, and the monolithic aspect is actually what makes a band like Bolt Thrower so appealing (although my favourite Bolt Thrower stuff is still the more chaotic stuff, pre-"4th Crusade").

For me, I find the more 'wobbly', wild and unpredictable records to be more extreme than the 'on the nose' straightforward ones. The idea of extremity in this thread got me listening to Fear of God's "Pneumatic Slaughter" EP again, which has everything I want from the grindcore end of extremity.

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wone21r
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:26 am
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 6:02 pm 
 

Teitanblood has never clicked for me, which has always felt strange given that they should be right up my alley.

robotiq wrote:
I've been listening some more Teitanblood on the back of this thread. My sense is that they sound very cool, have great riffs, some awesome hardcore-inspired drumming and a megalithic production. However, I they lack that 'unhinged' element that makes Swallowed and Antediluvian so terrifying.
Some of this comes down to the riff style, but I think the drumming is equally important (if not more so). The beats on "Death" settle the songs into a wonderful groove but they are quite predictable.
This prevents the band from sounding as wild and bestial as those bands that take a looser, 'avant garde' approach. "Through the Cervix of Hawaah" and "Lunarterial" are much more interesting records from my perspective, particularly because of how the drums land.


This post by robotiq actually makes a lot of sense and could be what I'm experiencing.
But for whatever reason, I find the band to be a chore to listen to, and have to force myself to stay interested - I don't believe that's how music should work, so in total I've listened to barely any Teitanblood.

Might not be exactly the same, but I'd recommend Profane Order - Slave Morality as being worth a listen.

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Ghost of Christmas Last
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:37 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 8:29 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
Very interesting take/POV, although I can't really get behind an analysis that would ever use popularity as a metric to evaluate anything related to artistry. DSBM sure seems to resonate with more people, even if I can't really understand with it seems how it has such broad appeal, but that's not really what I'm looking for here.

Unless we are talking really simplistic material, I feel that popularity of an extreme metal band is indeed correlated with artistry to an extent that we should not simply dismiss - that's why we look forward to the polls, right? Well, either that or a certain large market is a little biased and keeps pumping up DSO's numbers haha

Teitanblood are always a fun listen but my main gripe with them is precisely the brickwall. I just like some space in my music I guess.

wone21r wrote:
Teitanblood has never clicked for me, which has always felt strange given that they should be right up my alley.

robotiq wrote:
I've been listening some more Teitanblood on the back of this thread. My sense is that they sound very cool, have great riffs, some awesome hardcore-inspired drumming and a megalithic production. However, I they lack that 'unhinged' element that makes Swallowed and Antediluvian so terrifying.
Some of this comes down to the riff style, but I think the drumming is equally important (if not more so). The beats on "Death" settle the songs into a wonderful groove but they are quite predictable.
This prevents the band from sounding as wild and bestial as those bands that take a looser, 'avant garde' approach. "Through the Cervix of Hawaah" and "Lunarterial" are much more interesting records from my perspective, particularly because of how the drums land.


This post by robotiq actually makes a lot of sense and could be what I'm experiencing.
But for whatever reason, I find the band to be a chore to listen to, and have to force myself to stay interested - I don't believe that's how music should work, so in total I've listened to barely any Teitanblood.

Different drummers work best on albums that suit their style - on this subject I read one of the most insightful critiques of Nile (that I could relate to) on an adjacent album:
https://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/ ... us/510524/

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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:45 pm 
 

Ghost of Christmas Last wrote:
Unless we are talking really simplistic material, I feel that popularity of an extreme metal band is indeed correlated with artistry to an extent that we should not simply dismiss - that's why we look forward to the polls, right? Well, either that or a certain large market is a little biased and keeps pumping up DSO's numbers haha

Teitanblood are always a fun listen but my main gripe with them is precisely the brickwall. I just like some space in my music I guess.


It feels like you're arbitrarily deciding where to draw the line on where and when popularity is actually a good indicator of the artistic quality of something, based on the conclusions you want to find. Maybe not consciously. I don't think your stance is disingenuous, but it's not really fair, and again, I don't think that popularity is a good metric if we are going to compare significantly different subsubgenres of metal. It's too obvious that some subgenres will be more popular, and there are too many factors to take into consideration to really assert just how much popularity really correlates with artistry.

I get the connection you're trying to make though. I just don't think it's one for one. And the only moments when I tend to consider popularity as a good metric, is when I trust the a specific community, either because I value their knowledge and/or understanding of music, or I share similar tastes. Which is basically why I like the polls here, because MA's community general tastes and mine have a pretty big overlap. I tend to be a bit more dismissive of the opinions of people who placed the new Korn record in their top albums of the year list ;)

Nevertheless, popularity is never the only metric I consider, and if I do consider it, I take it with a pinch of salt.

For the subject at hand here, I would never come to the conclusion that there is better artistry in DSBM then there is Dissonant death metal, or war metal or whatnot, just because more people seem to enjoy DSBM. The only thing this tells me is that there is too much depressed people ;)

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Vadara
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:14 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 12:07 am 
 

If the only thing you give a shit about is the music being as absurdly heavy and cacophonous as possible then just listen to Encenathrakh and be done with it. I dunno why you value heaviness over all musicality, but once you've heard Encenathrakh all the bands that try to be as cacophonous as possible but don't have the balls to just make the music unlistenable noise (like, say, the entire war metal genre) sound quaint.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 6:34 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
For the life of me I can't hear riffs in Teitanblood, at least on the album I've heard. I think they're exceptionally boring.

I guess Adversarial would be the best of the bands in that... war metal by way of death metal thing? Absolute riff monsters both albums, it's a shame the first one has such a terrible sound. Pissgrave's demo and first album are also amazing. I'm also a big fan of We Are Death onwards Sadistik Execution, but obviously they're not as single minded in the uptempo carnage.


Funny you say all the because when i listen to Teitanblood - Death i hear nods to Sad Ex and i love it.

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CrushedRevelation
Devil's right hand

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:47 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 8:56 pm 
 

lennonlikesmetal wrote:
lord_ghengis wrote:
For the life of me I can't hear riffs in Teitanblood, at least on the album I've heard. I think they're exceptionally boring.

I guess Adversarial would be the best of the bands in that... war metal by way of death metal thing? Absolute riff monsters both albums, it's a shame the first one has such a terrible sound. Pissgrave's demo and first album are also amazing. I'm also a big fan of We Are Death onwards Sadistik Execution, but obviously they're not as single minded in the uptempo carnage.


Funny you say all the because when i listen to Teitanblood - Death i hear nods to Sad Ex and i love it.


This. Sadistik Exekution is all over Teitanblood releases, and prior to Teitanblood releasing their brand of murky, raucous, wall of noise brutality (which I'm a huge fan of) Sad Ex were deliberately pushing the boundaries of extremity from We Are Death onward. There was a time when people were calling Teitanblood Beherit worship which always seemed off to me, as they obviously are influenced by Sad Ex. My two cents...

HeavenDuff wrote:
Now what I want to discuss more specifically in this thread is just how much more can we push the extremes in the "extreme metal" subgenres, and what other bands are doing it, maybe just as well or better then Teitanblood in your opinion. And also, I want to know how we can push the extremes further. Is mixing death and black the best way to accomplish this?


Teitanblood may well be the best in this particular brand of disgusting atmosphere and filthy, brutality. However, there is one album I would suggest that shares their vision and drive with unrelenting heaviness, suffocating atmosphere and "wall of noise" extremity, and that is Witchrist's debut Beheaded Ouroboros. This also mixes death/black and doom elements in an uncompromising way I feel, pushing the extremity as best they can. Amazing album also.

Having said that, along with the other awesome acts named by some already (Adversarial, Pseudogod, Black Curse, Grave Upheaval, Triumvir Foul, Swallowed etc), there are others I feel that share similar traits as Teitanblood, such as Lvcifyre (suffocatingly heavy with dread atmosphere, more death metal though?), Paroxsihzem, Vile Ritual, Genocide Shrines, Wrathprayer, Mitochondrian, Suspiral (fellow country mates) and so it goes... All pushing the heaviness and extremity. Huge fan of this genre.
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HeavenDuff
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
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Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2022 11:08 pm 
 

CrushedRevelation wrote:
Teitanblood may well be the best in this particular brand of disgusting atmosphere and filthy, brutality. However, there is one album I would suggest that shares their vision and drive with unrelenting heaviness, suffocating atmosphere and "wall of noise" extremity, and that is Witchrist's debut Beheaded Ouroboros. This also mixes death/black and doom elements in an uncompromising way I feel, pushing the extremity as best they can. Amazing album also.

Having said that, along with the other awesome acts named by some already (Adversarial, Pseudogod, Black Curse, Grave Upheaval, Triumvir Foul, Swallowed etc), there are others I feel that share similar traits as Teitanblood, such as Lvcifyre (suffocatingly heavy with dread atmosphere, more death metal though?), Paroxsihzem, Vile Ritual, Genocide Shrines, Wrathprayer, Mitochondrian, Suspiral (fellow country mates) and so it goes... All pushing the heaviness and extremity. Huge fan of this genre.


You're reminding me that I have to listen to Witchrist, haha! I don't even know if I've ever heard their music or not, only that they are, and have been for a while, on my list of bands to listen to, but I keep listening to Ad Nauseam because I'm crazy about their stuff right now.

I'll look into the other bands you listed as well. They sound interesting. Thanks!

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Gravetemplar
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:57 am 
 

Mitochondrion are great. They've been promising a new album for years, not sure why it isn't out already.

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therealvivs
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:26 pm
Posts: 566
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:04 am 
 

Excellent idea for a discussion.
Been a fan of this sort of bands since I've first discovered Immolation and then Gorguts many moons ago.

It is indeed a very fine line between heaviness / brutality (either the slow, suffocating, monolithic kind or the frantic, chaotic and spastic counterpart) and songwriting / memorability.
I believe that the margin for error is actually slimmer in this sub-sub genre of metal: your song-writing skills and creativity need to be on point, otherwise you'll just write a record that no one will ever make it past the first 2 songs.

it's no coincidence perhaps that the titans of this niche are masterful at crafting songs, even with all the dissonance and extreme abrasion that are kind of pre-requisites. That's why, in my opinion, Deathspell Omega and Ulcerate are many times copied but rarely surpassed.

I also think that under the umbrella of extremeness there's almost a limitless amount of bands that can kinda fit the bill and sound nothing like each other: thread poster boys Teitanblood, Anaal Nathrakh, and Portal, for instance, sound nothing like each other, but it's hard to argue they don't all contribute to push the envelope in some shape or form.

From the top of my head, I'd like to add Disentomb, Gigan and Phobocosm to the list of bands mentioned. Whilst they lack the kind of murky, filthy, recorded under a frozen lake sort of atmosphere, they surely are examples of ferocious metal bands with extremely proficient players as well as the songwriting chops to match their brutality / weirdness.

EDIT: Also, fellow Portuguese outfit The Ominous Circle has a really cool record that might appeal to fans of some of the bands mentioned.
If a mix of Incantation and Morbid Angel with a shade of black metal sounds like something you'd be into, give them a listen. They might be a bit too conventional if you're looking for extremely bizarre shit, tho.

https://osmoseproductions.bandcamp.com/ ... -ascension
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Last edited by therealvivs on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AxeCapitol
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Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:38 pm
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Location: NYC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 4:45 pm 
 

Portal very much belong in this discussion. Surprised to only see it mentioned once.

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lennonlikesmetal
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:25 am
Posts: 4641
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2022 8:39 pm 
 

AxeCapitol wrote:
Portal very much belong in this discussion. Surprised to only see it mentioned once.


Well they are obviously one of the elite.

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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2022 3:26 am 
 

I have a love-hate relationship with Teitanblood. Their first album Seven Chalices was fantastic, and one of the best of this particular brand of extremity. Unfortunately, 5 years later they released Death and it was just so...unmemorable. The elements were still there, clearly, but the spark was gone. I didn't even check out their 3rd album and still haven't.

Gravetemplar wrote:
Mitochondrion are great. They've been promising a new album for years, not sure why it isn't out already.

Yeah, Parasignosis is a killer album. I'd love to hear a new album, despite it being...holy crap, 11 years? Yeah a new album is well and truly overdue.

AxeCapitol wrote:
Portal very much belong in this discussion. Surprised to only see it mentioned once.

I remember hating this band with a passion the first time I heard them, but now - after many years of acclimating to them and their sound - I do find them highly enjoyable. No duds in their discography, either.
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