Anti-Ben are gods, accept this fact into your lives or die, BEN LOVERS!

There is no line that cannot be crossed, no boundary that cannot be broken. The freedom to speak and to compose and to offend is the greatest right any of us could have. It can never go too far, or offend too much.

Avtually, I've found that the lyrics that offend the most are usually quite well written, as they accomplish creating such a great emotional response from a lot of people.

There are obviously exceptions to this, such as retarded shock value lyrics, but generally lyrics that genuinely offend people beyond the "OMG that's gross", "OMG they're racist" or "OMG that's retarded" types of shock value are often very well written.

Now explain what BEN is, please.

Every person on this planet (and off) named Ben!

Lol okay BENzerko.



On topic:
I find that people who do really extreme pornogrind gore lyrics for strickly shock value to look more 'evil' than the next guy (and solely for that purpose alone) doesn't really fit well with me.
I personally say everyone should have the right to freedom of speech, but if its the above... I myself won't really listen to it.

In metal you can never go to far.

This reminds me of an old topic here about something like "Have we reached the most extreme form of music?". Well, I think that everything 'shocking', and evil that could be possibly thought of has already been done; can it get more extreme than that? Even if the music can get more extreme with advances in technology and stuff, I think all of the taboos that could be explored lyrics-wise have already been milked to death already.

Darkness? Black Sabbath in 1970.
Anal sex and LOTR? Led Zeppelin.
Devil worship? Venom.
Gore? Death.
Church burnings? Killing band mates? Rape? A combination of the 3? They have all been done already. I don't think there are many shocking themes remaining.

Shocking themes remaining regarding our time.
During the 90's there was this great fear about technology and virtual life. There were some lyrics that expressed that technology was going to destroy us all like Edge Of Sanity's 'Blood-Coloured' or Maiden's 'Futureal'.

Maybe not as extreme, but there can be something nowadays that might break that boundary.

Oh don't get me wrong, I wasn't singling Belphegor out or anything (or any band in particular for that matter) but making a broad statement against that kind of gore/porno/etc lyrics. For example:

I cum on your face
spew my tainted seed
Rub it on your fuckin’ tits
you whore you died for me
I think I like how you please me
Now that your a gory fuckin’ mess
i'll keep your carcass ready for a fuck
anytime I feel you next to me

Really? I dunno, doesn't really do much for me. IMO, it just comes across as lazy, not to mention fucked up, in this case. There's gore lyrics and then there is this shit, and that's really how I see it. Please note, again, I'm not condemning any bands or saying that the music sucks, but just showing my distaste for the lyrics. As for whether it's too far, I'd say go as far as you like. But when you start writing about raping dead children you might want to re-evaluate your mental stability.

Before I was into the extreme genres, I believed that Metal and the like were just there to be hardcore. I thought you know, it was all about the sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and of course, to some bands it is, but for some that is certainly not the case. I began listening to such things as Metallica and bands like Metallica, and was all like "YEAH I'M H-CRE CUZ i L1sT3N 2 'T4LL1Ca!!!" and as I got older and wiser, and started getting better at my own language like we all do at that certain age, I discovered that lots of bands actually go the distance with lyrics, (sometimes). They sang about more abstract stuff, lyrics that have to do with death and anger, you know, non-linear things that you had to search for (not saying all Metallica is like this, leave me alone). With lyrics, I respect this a lot. What I'm trying to say is that musical freedom, to me, was something that a band was given. Not a privilege, but a right. No matter how much I hate some bands lyrics, (the only lyrics I really hate are completely straight-forward stupid ones, like in rap and what-not and racist lyrics) I/we cannot deny them their right to say them. As for music, like, instrumentally, anything goes, for me, as long as it's not TOO mediocre, like I like a lot of death/metal/hard-core bands, but I don't really find too much that's COMPLETELY un-listenenable. On occasion there are a few over-the-toppers, where it's just bad, like, Korn or something, but you know, it's all good listening for me. With image, if there's one thing I hate worse than shitty lyrics, it's image. I get that a lot of great bands use physical image to appeal to an audience, but that's really not the thing that a person should be interested in in a band. The music is what counts and no fucking costume makes you any better. Again, it can help for effect, but it's not something a band should be based on, I think. Not to mention the whole thing is completely unoriginal, now, anyways, IMO. So really, the things that go too far are really just the racist lyrics for me. That's really all I think go too far, my statement I guess was about unnecessary things that don't really go too far, so to speak, but are some personal views on what we've been talking about. You get it, I'm sure.

I'm a little late on this discussion but this summed up my thoughts exactly. People are allowed to say whatever they like and I'll defend that right even if they happen to hurl personal attacks against me and those I care about for whatever reason. However, the instant anyone crosses the line and starts acting on what they've said, that's too far.

Also, in relation to metal, I don't typically care about lyrics--that's reserved for other genres of music. I consider it an added bonus if the lyrics are cool or follow my way of thinking but it's by no means necessary. That said, I'm not typically keen on sexism or racism oriented bands but if the band penning those lyrics and holding those beliefs also writes stunning, moving music, I'll listen to them anyway. Stunning music remains stunning music, infantile beliefs and lyrics aside.

With lyrical themes it is never too far.
In music it was too far when Ulver did metamorphosis album, but for me it was a right step. You know... there are Obituary playing 20 years the same stuff (even some reviewer noticed that their album Frozen in time really sounds like they were frozen in time) and then Ulver exploring new dimensions, and when they feel that they should leave metal it is not problem for me, when it is in the name of natural progression, after leaving metal they did their best stuff.
There are also bands that stay metal but they progress - for example Emperor or Solefald, and thats it.