Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives :: View topic - Help translating this Rotting Christ song title!

It means "You (plural) are immortal" in Ancient Greek; it could also mean "Be immortal!" (directed to a plurality of people), depending on the stress on the word ΕΣΤΕ. The song title is here correctly written in capitals, just like an Athenian would have done it 500 BCE, when accent signs were not yet used, which unfortunately means that we can't say which of the two it is. In the scholarly orthography used for Ancient Greek today, the title could be either ἀθάνατοί ἐστε, meaning "you (pl.) are immortal", or ἀθάνατοι ἔστε, meaning "Be immortal!".

In the first case, ἀθάνατοί ἐστε, the Ancient Greek pronunciation would be roughly AH-'T(h)AH-NAH-'TOY ESS-TEH or in phonetic script [a'tʰana'tɔi̯ ɛstɛ], where you must be careful to distinguish between the aspirated t (the θ in the first word), i.e. a normal English t, and the unaspirated t's elsewhere (τ in both words), i.e. a Spanish t.

In Modern Greek pronunciation, which is perhaps simpler, the pronunciation is [a'θana'ti ɛstɛ] or roughly AH-'THAH-NAH-'TEE ESS-TEH. This pronunciation, however, is anachronistic for the forms used.

In the second case, "Be immortal!", pronunciation is the same except for where the stress is placed. Where "you are immortal" has a second stress on the last syllable of [a'tʰana'tɔi̯] and [ɛstɛ] has no stress, "Be immortal!" doesn't have a stress on the -TÓY but on the ÉSS- of ἔστε. As I said, as written in the title it could be both, but perhaps the song lyrics provide the context from which to decide.

The reason for this phrase having two possible meanings is that the normal present tense form is enclitic, that is, it doesn't have its own stress, whereas the imperative form retains its own stress.

Hope I could help.

Author:	WinterBliss [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:12 am ]
Post subject:	Help translating this Rotting Christ song title!
The Rotting Christ song is Athanati Este (ΑΘΑΝΑΤΟΙ ΕΣΤΕ), if anyone could tell me what it means and how to pronounce it i'd be extremely grateful.

Author:	greysnow [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:57 am ]
Post subject:
It means "You (plural) are immortal" in Ancient Greek; it could also mean "Be immortal!" (directed to a plurality of people), depending on the stress on the word ΕΣΤΕ. The song title is here correctly written in capitals, just like an Athenian would have done it 500 BCE, when accent signs were not yet used, which unfortunately means that we can't say which of the two it is. In the scholarly orthography used for Ancient Greek today, the title could be either ἀθάνατοί ἐστε, meaning "you (pl.) are immortal", or ἀθάνατοι ἔστε, meaning "Be immortal!". In the first case, ἀθάνατοί ἐστε, the Ancient Greek pronunciation would be roughly AH-'T(h)AH-NAH-'TOY ESS-TEH or in phonetic script [a'tʰana'tɔi̯ ɛstɛ], where you must be careful to distinguish between the aspirated t (the θ in the first word), i.e. a normal English t, and the unaspirated t's elsewhere (τ in both words), i.e. a Spanish t. In Modern Greek pronunciation, which is perhaps simpler, the pronunciation is [a'θana'ti ɛstɛ] or roughly AH-'THAH-NAH-'TEE ESS-TEH. This pronunciation, however, is anachronistic for the forms used. In the second case, "Be immortal!", pronunciation is the same except for where the stress is placed. Where "you are immortal" has a second stress on the last syllable of [a'tʰana'tɔi̯] and [ɛstɛ] has no stress, "Be immortal!" doesn't have a stress on the -TÓY but on the ÉSS- of ἔστε. As I said, as written in the title it could be both, but perhaps the song lyrics provide the context from which to decide. The reason for this phrase having two possible meanings is that the normal present tense form is enclitic, that is, it doesn't have its own stress, whereas the imperative form retains its own stress. Hope I could help.

Author:	DenialFiend [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:13 am ]
Post subject:
The song title in Greek is ΑΘΑΝΑΤΟΙ ΕΣΤΕ, or better in non-capitals Αθάνατοι Εστέ (this form will help you pronounce it better). I'm not that sure sure, if you can say Athanati Este in English. Well, how you will read it is that way: <<Athanate>> ("Th" is, a two letter element in English - one in Greek (it's Θ), like you say THirteen. Also, the use of "e" in that word is like the "e" English use for the word emo, Last, "a" is read as it's read in words like arson, arrest, etc). <<Este>> is not hard to read. Just to underline that the use of "e" in that word is like you say elephant. Now, about the letter emphasizing, I remind you the non-capital form; Αθάνατοι Εστέ. So, as you say 'elephant" and you emphasize in the first "e", in Greek, you should emphasize on the letter which has this << ' >> over it. So, Athanati Este would be read like that: athAnate estE, with the proper use of the letters. Confused (more?)?

Author:	CrippledLucifer [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:35 am ]
Post subject:
Hey, on the same topic (well, now it's latin not greek, but it' from the same album) what do these lyrics from "Visions of a blind order" mean? "Rex grandis - adustrum - malum - ab erevum Ac adcervio - malum - ab optimus" Great album by the way.

Author:	potassium_cianide [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:42 am ]
Post subject:
Well, no one better than a greek to teach us greek lol @topic: I suck hard at latin.

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Author:	ahr888 [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:55 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks for that scholarly explanation! greysnow wrote: It means "You (plural) are immortal" in Ancient Greek; it could also mean "Be immortal!" (directed to a plurality of people), depending on the stress on the word ΕΣΤΕ. The song title is here correctly written in capitals, just like an Athenian would have done it 500 BCE, when accent signs were not yet used, which unfortunately means that we can't say which of the two it is. In the scholarly orthography used for Ancient Greek today, the title could be either ἀθάνατοί ἐστε, meaning "you (pl.) are immortal", or ἀθάνατοι ἔστε, meaning "Be immortal!". In the first case, ἀθάνατοί ἐστε, the Ancient Greek pronunciation would be roughly AH-'T(h)AH-NAH-'TOY ESS-TEH or in phonetic script [a'tʰana'tɔi̯ ɛstɛ], where you must be careful to distinguish between the aspirated t (the θ in the first word), i.e. a normal English t, and the unaspirated t's elsewhere (τ in both words), i.e. a Spanish t. In Modern Greek pronunciation, which is perhaps simpler, the pronunciation is [a'θana'ti ɛstɛ] or roughly AH-'THAH-NAH-'TEE ESS-TEH. This pronunciation, however, is anachronistic for the forms used. In the second case, "Be immortal!", pronunciation is the same except for where the stress is placed. Where "you are immortal" has a second stress on the last syllable of [a'tʰana'tɔi̯] and [ɛstɛ] has no stress, "Be immortal!" doesn't have a stress on the -TÓY but on the ÉSS- of ἔστε. As I said, as written in the title it could be both, but perhaps the song lyrics provide the context from which to decide. The reason for this phrase having two possible meanings is that the normal present tense form is enclitic, that is, it doesn't have its own stress, whereas the imperative form retains its own stress. Hope I could help.

Author:	WinterBliss [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Thanks a lot for the quick feedback. Didn't want to sound like a complete asshole on my radio show today.

Author:	greysnow [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:
CrippledLucifer wrote: Hey, on the same topic (well, now it's latin not greek, but it' from the same album) what do these lyrics from "Visions of a blind order" mean? "Rex grandis - adustrum - malum - ab erevum Ac adcervio - malum - ab optimus" Great album by the way. Now this is real pig Latin, not the "atinlay" sort, but bad Latin picked from a dictionary with no heed to grammar, sprinkled with a number of gratuitous mistakes and served with abandon. As far as I could make it out (and my interpretation can be wrong), it means something like "The Great King - burnt - evil - from the Underworld And I come to aid or And I guard - evil - from the best (possibly: from good)." Almost the only part that is correct is Rex grandis "The Great King". adustrum is probably wrong for adustum "burnt", since no "adustrum" seems to exist. But it is of neuter grammatical gender and doesn't fit with "Rex", which is masculine. Same goes for malum "evil". ab erevum: No forms with "erev-" exist in Latin, according to my rather voluminous dictionary, and I didn't find a Latin word that starts like that on the net either. I suspect "erevum" is a bastardized form of Erebus "Underworld", perhaps picked from a medieval text. After ab "from", though, it should be "ab Erebo", not "ab Erebum" (wrong case). But what the hell (indeed). Ac: "and". You might think it'd be too difficult to smuggle a mistake into a word of two letters, but "ac", if I remember correctly, serves to link nouns, not verbs/sentences as is done here. But "and" it must be. adcervio: no such word. If <c> is supposed to be pronounced [s] before <e>, as it commonly is in English, it could be a spelling mistake for "adservio", more commonly written asservio. (This is also a mistake a medieval writer could possibly make.) However, adservio, which means "I come to aid", is a rare word in classical times (don't know about medieval Latin, though), so it's possible that it's a further mistake for adservo/asservo "I preserve / guard". malum: Huzzah! A correct form! Accusative singular neuter of malus "evil", meaning "evil" as a quality / an abstraction. ab optimus: "optimus" means "best", however it's again the wrong case and possibly the wrong gender (masculine). Should be ab optimo "from the best". However, I think they just meant to say "from good", which should have been a bono. I haven't checked out Rotting Christ's music yet, but they should definitely stay away from a competition to win a scholarship in the classics. No wonder their Greek is good (would be a shame if they had made a mistake in their own language), but their Latin sucks.

Author:	206 [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:
That is some fucked up Latin. "Grandis" looks like 2nd Declension Dative - the indirect object. Yet "rex" is definitely in the nominative singular. "Everum" might be the wrong was of saying "avaritia" which means greed/avarice That would mean: Grand King - burnt - evil - from greed. which could roughly be read as: The Grand King burned with evil and greed. But that is a stretch. greysnow pretty much nailed it.

Author:	balbulus [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:
'Romanes Eunt Domus'

Author:	206 [ Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Now, write it out a hundred times. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caesar, sir. Hail Caesar. If it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls off.

Author:	Catachthonian [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:12 am ]
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Just so you know, greysnow, the Greek form of Erebus is Erevos.

Author:	Mors_Gloria [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:59 am ]
Post subject:
Catachthonian wrote: Just so you know, greysnow, the Greek form of Erebus is Erevos. That's true. Also, in Greek Erevos doesn't mean "Underworld". It means "very deep darkness". In Greek, the amount of meanings that are represented with only one noun is very small. Most meanings can be represented via several nouns with each noun marking the density of the meaning. For example, the words "votsalo","petra","kotrona" and "vraxos" mean the same thing. A stone. However, "votsalo" marks the density of a very small stone, "petra" a small stone, "kotrona" a medium-sized stone and "vraxos" a huge rock. Same happens with the words "skotos" and "erevos". Skotos (as in RC's song "Skotos Aenaon") seems simply "darkness" whereas "erevos" means "very deep darkness" or "pitch black" as it is said in spoken English. To be precise, the darkness of the Abyss is most often described with the word erevos. But anyway, the fact that Rotting Christ suck hard in Latin (and in English too I'd add) remains the same. greysnow, the explanation of "Athanatoi Este" was brilliant PS: In the song I hear Sakis saying "αθάνατοι έστε" if that helps anyone.

Author:	greysnow [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Catachthonian wrote: Just so you know, greysnow, the Greek form of Erebus is Erevos. Yes, I kind of figured that out after I had posted and remembered the change b > v in later Greek, but I was too modest to go back and edit my post. @Mors: Hey, good too see you're still around, and thanks for the compliment. What's up with you? Busy with university, I imagine? Feel free to PM me.

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Author:	~Guest 62838 [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Can anyone identify what's being said in this song? http://www.mediafire.com/?kjmzzxq1fje There are no lyrics for it, but it's definitely Latin. It's another Rotting Christ song. It's just a chant being repeated over and over throughout the song's duration. Thanks.

Author:	Blacklinkz [ Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:43 pm ]
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Viral wrote: Can anyone identify what's being said in this song? http://www.mediafire.com/?kjmzzxq1fje There are no lyrics for it, but it's definitely Latin. It's another Rotting Christ song. It's just a chant being repeated over and over throughout the song's duration. Thanks. It´s the First line of the Latin text in "Visions of a Blind Order": Rex grandis - adustrum - malum - ab erevum Translation to this words is above. Great song, by the way. (Sanctimonius)