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"Groove"
https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45220		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  mjaeltbrand [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Empyreal wrote:
mjaeltbrand wrote:
Yes but Morgana Lefay has some other influences too(such as power metal). It is not 100% groove really. Nevertheless, it is rather enjoyable but I feel that with just changes in vocals and production, it could have been another of those bands I dislike. I will investigate them further though.

I never said they were 100% groove, my point was that they use grooves and they also rule, hard. As in, contrary to the stereotype that all groove is bad.


I do see what you mean.

It is just that in my earlier post I referred to bands with a sound consisting of only groove. Those suck. Unless you present me such a band that would blow my head off ;)
Author:  Empyreal [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
mjaeltbrand wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
mjaeltbrand wrote:
Yes but Morgana Lefay has some other influences too(such as power metal). It is not 100% groove really. Nevertheless, it is rather enjoyable but I feel that with just changes in vocals and production, it could have been another of those bands I dislike. I will investigate them further though.

I never said they were 100% groove, my point was that they use grooves and they also rule, hard. As in, contrary to the stereotype that all groove is bad.


I do see what you mean.

It is just that in my earlier post I referred to bands with a sound consisting of only groove. Those suck. Unless you present me such a band that would blow my head off ;)

Well, I do like Mastodon's last album...but that isn't something I expect to convert anyone on any time soon.
Author:  mjaeltbrand [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I saw Mastodon live on UAIII, but the sound was complete shit and the microphones was basically turned off so the singing was inaudible :P
Author:  eternal_sin666 [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
oneinfinity wrote:
eternal_sin666 wrote:
XSpidercideX wrote:
the16th6toothson wrote:
groove i love

White Zombie-La Sexoricisto
Obituary-The End Complete

there are others but in general most bands that "exploit" the groove tire quickly and lack substance. hard to explain what a groove is, but i guess i will say that the "groove" is that bit that makes you not headbang, but headnod and a smooth "ah yah" kinda way and might even make your shoulders sway just that tiny bit.

now ask yourself does any part of any song make you do that smooth, kinda soft comfortable sway n nod? that's a groove.
if a whole song is like that... fine, if a whole album is like that... hmm kinda one dimensional doncha think?... this is why many don't like "groove" because many bands that rely on it-in fact exploit it or use is as a crutch because they are poor at arrangements and don't understand builds, transitions or climax.

and that's part of my personal take


You described it very well. I agree 100% with everything you said. I loove groove parts in songs if used in good taste, they are usually my favorite parts. However when a band relies on groove too much, the albums usually get old kind of fast.


That was well explained but musicians that are playing at 230 bpm can still "groove" without necessarily playing a "groovy" song. Many Americans seem to refer to groove as "the pocket" for musicians. It's kinda really hard to describe but basically groove is about how not every note you play is at exactly the same dynamic. For example, if you're playing drums, if you have no groove all your high-hat notes are going to be ubber loud and accented while your snare won't be loud enough etc (that's an example). If you groove then the high-hats won't be too loud etc. For many drummers having groove also has to do with playing the hats with a certain pattern such as accent, no accent, accent, no accent etc.

Basically, groove is all about HOW you play, not necessarily what you're playing. That's from a musicians stand point. Groovy music can refer to an entirely different thing though. Self-titled album by Dismember anyone?


I actually think that the snare and bass drum is much more important for creating a certain groove than the hi-hat or any other cymbal.

That's exactly what I said... if you do groove, your hats won't be too loud, it's your snare and bass drum will take more presence in your beat. Unless a certain part of a songs really demands something that is more hat/cymbal driven.
Author:  Deucalion [ Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not really sure what "groove" refers to. Songs that I thought might be considered to have a "groove" would be:

"Liege of Inveracity"-Suffocation (Slam? breakdown? groove?)

"Spheres of Madness"-Decapitated

Those are just a couple. There are also some Pantera and White Zombie songs that could probably be considered to have "groove", not to mention some "slam" riffs or whatever I've heard before...also maybe some Exhorder or Demolition Hammer on 'Time Bomb' (haven't listened to that album very much, but I heard a little bit, I think).
Author:  oneinfinity [ Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
eternal_sin666 wrote:
oneinfinity wrote:
eternal_sin666 wrote:
XSpidercideX wrote:
the16th6toothson wrote:
groove i love

White Zombie-La Sexoricisto
Obituary-The End Complete

there are others but in general most bands that "exploit" the groove tire quickly and lack substance. hard to explain what a groove is, but i guess i will say that the "groove" is that bit that makes you not headbang, but headnod and a smooth "ah yah" kinda way and might even make your shoulders sway just that tiny bit.

now ask yourself does any part of any song make you do that smooth, kinda soft comfortable sway n nod? that's a groove.
if a whole song is like that... fine, if a whole album is like that... hmm kinda one dimensional doncha think?... this is why many don't like "groove" because many bands that rely on it-in fact exploit it or use is as a crutch because they are poor at arrangements and don't understand builds, transitions or climax.

and that's part of my personal take


You described it very well. I agree 100% with everything you said. I loove groove parts in songs if used in good taste, they are usually my favorite parts. However when a band relies on groove too much, the albums usually get old kind of fast.


That was well explained but musicians that are playing at 230 bpm can still "groove" without necessarily playing a "groovy" song. Many Americans seem to refer to groove as "the pocket" for musicians. It's kinda really hard to describe but basically groove is about how not every note you play is at exactly the same dynamic. For example, if you're playing drums, if you have no groove all your high-hat notes are going to be ubber loud and accented while your snare won't be loud enough etc (that's an example). If you groove then the high-hats won't be too loud etc. For many drummers having groove also has to do with playing the hats with a certain pattern such as accent, no accent, accent, no accent etc.

Basically, groove is all about HOW you play, not necessarily what you're playing. That's from a musicians stand point. Groovy music can refer to an entirely different thing though. Self-titled album by Dismember anyone?


I actually think that the snare and bass drum is much more important for creating a certain groove than the hi-hat or any other cymbal.

That's exactly what I said... if you do groove, your hats won't be too loud, it's your snare and bass drum will take more presence in your beat. Unless a certain part of a songs really demands something that is more hat/cymbal driven.


Well sorry but iI guess I misunderstood your post a bit.
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