Are you referring to Groove Metal specifically or just any music at all that has groove to it? Please clarify first so that this thread doesn't get confusing.

"Groove" in metal/metal-related genres often refers to pure shit

Groove metal actually can sound good. See Forbidden's Green album but yeah in general it stands for shit.

groove i love

White Zombie-La Sexoricisto
Obituary-The End Complete

there are others but in general most bands that "exploit" the groove tire quickly and lack substance. hard to explain what a groove is, but i guess i will say that the "groove" is that bit that makes you not headbang, but headnod and a smooth "ah yah" kinda way and might even make your shoulders sway just that tiny bit.

now ask yourself does any part of any song make you do that smooth, kinda soft comfortable sway n nod? that's a groove.
if a whole song is like that... fine, if a whole album is like that... hmm kinda one dimensional doncha think?... this is why many don't like "groove" because many bands that rely on it-in fact exploit it or use is as a crutch because they are poor at arrangements and don't understand builds, transitions or climax.

and that's part of my personal take

Fixed

The 1st band that I think of when I think of groove is Jungle Rot. It's just really heavy and catchy riffs. None of that nu-metal shit.

Fixed

You described it very well. I agree 100% with everything you said. I loove groove parts in songs if used in good taste, they are usually my favorite parts. However when a band relies on groove too much, the albums usually get old kind of fast.

i will say that the "groove" is that bit that makes you not headbang, but headnod and a smooth "ah yah" kinda way and might even make your shoulders sway just that tiny bit.

now ask yourself does any part of any song make you do that smooth, kinda soft comfortable sway n nod? that's a groove.

and that's part of my personal take

So by this description i would say that Bolt Thrower as very good grooves in their songs

I think people (here anyway) have generally made too big a deal about "groove" without properly defining it (beyond "it sucks"). It seems as if there's a paranoia about it. I admit that a few years ago, whenever I heard a staccato riff I became somewhat flustered and felt as if the band I was listening to had betrayed me with "modern" trappings. Then I realized that the concepts were so nebulous that it became meaningless and was not very useful in determining quality. So now I take a less absolutist approach to the term and have become wary of criticisms of "groove". Which is not to say I'm suddenly listening to Pantera and Machine Head all the time, as those kinds of bands still don't appeal to me much. I suppose I've just begun to not assign negative connotations to the term "groove" and will more specifically criticize what I don't like about a certain band/album/song/riff.

I suppose I've just begun to not assign negative connotations to the term "groove" and will more specifically criticize what I don't like about a certain band/album/song/riff.

rexxz: Trying hard? I might have had some less-intelligent moments in this forum, but I still think you could have approached this in a less aggressive way. I've seen people write more crappy posts without being confronted with that attitude.

I think people (here anyway) have generally made too big a deal about "groove" without properly defining it (beyond "it sucks"). It seems as if there's a paranoia about it. I admit that a few years ago, whenever I heard a staccato riff I became somewhat flustered and felt as if the band I was listening to had betrayed me with "modern" trappings. Then I realized that the concepts were so nebulous that it became meaningless and was not very useful in determining quality. So now I take a less absolutist approach to the term and have become wary of criticisms of "groove". Which is not to say I'm suddenly listening to Pantera and Machine Head all the time, as those kinds of bands still don't appeal to me much. I suppose I've just begun to not assign negative connotations to the term "groove" and will more specifically criticize what I don't like about a certain band/album/song/riff.

Yeah, pretty much the same here. Many bands use groove to their advantage, and most of the time it helps to create variety and power to the sound. It's a shame that so many metalheads have attached a negative stigma to the word, although I guess it's not implausible, given the shitty bands that do nothing but chug out boring grooves in an attempt to be heavy and angry.

That was well explained but musicians that are playing at 230 bpm can still "groove" without necessarily playing a "groovy" song. Many Americans seem to refer to groove as "the pocket" for musicians. It's kinda really hard to describe but basically groove is about how not every note you play is at exactly the same dynamic. For example, if you're playing drums, if you have no groove all your high-hat notes are going to be ubber loud and accented while your snare won't be loud enough etc (that's an example). If you groove then the high-hats won't be too loud etc. For many drummers having groove also has to do with playing the hats with a certain pattern such as accent, no accent, accent, no accent etc.

Basically, groove is all about HOW you play, not necessarily what you're playing. That's from a musicians stand point. Groovy music can refer to an entirely different thing though. Self-titled album by Dismember anyone?

I really think my worst problem is the vocals, and also the production. I have no words to define the production, but most songs I have heard just sound awful. The guitars, the drums, basically everything.

Yes but Morgana Lefay has some other influences too(such as power metal). It is not 100% groove really. Nevertheless, it is rather enjoyable but I feel that with just changes in vocals and production, it could have been another of those bands I dislike. I will investigate them further though.