I will always see Jari as a creative genius who has revolutionised metal as we know it, who's melodic and lyrical structure intertwine to bring a tear to one's eye. What do you think?

Revolutionised?

That's far too much of a stretch.

You think not?

How on earth has he revolutionised metal? I haven't heard his work in Ensiferum (not that I particularly wish to either), but having heard the Wintersun album I can safely say that as a songwriter he's average at best.

+ the Wintersum album sounds terrible

Clearly. What has he done that in any way can remotely be attributed to a revolution within metal or any realm of music, even on a micro-scale? Nothing, really.

Maybe you should shut the fuck up until you do.

Maybe you should hold your tongue and cease inflammatory behavior unprovoked.

Ensiferum are mediocre at best, and same goes for Wintersun. Also, did he ever even release the second Wintersun album?

Nope. What's exactly so revolutionary about the music he's written in your opinion? Ensiferum/Wintersun is mostly good stuff, but there's other music that's far more likely to "bring a tear to my eye".

The upcoming Time sounds like it could be a very interesting concept album, but you know, he's not quite the first one to do such a thing.

im a big fan from both ensiferum and wintersun, and i must say that he is a hell damn good songwriter and composer, as well as a great musician, but lets be honest, he do not revolucioned a shit

I agree with Wintersun being medicore, but Ensiferums s/t is in my opinion one of the best records realesed post 2000.

I don't think so and it's taking a while, maybe it will be a long time before he does melodeath's version of Chinese Democracy if you will.

EDIT: I'm shit at spelling and put Beford instead of before =x

Their s/t is much better than Ensiferum's other works and is my personal favourite of all of Jari's works. Still doesn't make up for the fact that the rest of Ensiferum/ Wintersun isn't that great.

Next year sometime, cannot wait.

As much as I love Wintersun, Ensiferum and everything Jari Maenpaa has done with his contribution to metal, as well as him... I think "revolutionized" is a bit of a stretch. Seriously, I am a huge fan of all of his work as well as his songwriting abilities (which are at the top of the list of any metal songwriter), guitar playing, both clean and harsh vocals, as well as his concept or theme creations. Even with all that, it's still far to say he "revolutionized" metal.

Perhaps i was a bit extreme. Would it be acceptable to change "revolutionised metal" to "revolutionised metal for me"?

I think he has the ability to produce majestic metal and everyone should keep their eyes on him.

No one person has influenced me personally. I think Jari is the greatest musician who has ever lived. And now people will try to change my opinion.

*hugs*

Jari is probably my favourite metal musician of all time, probably along with Peter Tagtgren if not more so. I wouldn't say he revolutionised anything, just that he's a damn good songwriter/vocalist/guitarist.

IMO Ensiferum's S/T is one of the best albums ever if not the best with Iron and the Wintersun S/T coming rather close behind.

Jari is good, but people make him out to be some sort of metal messiah, and that makes no fucking sense. Yes, I love Ensiferum, I think he has a great voice for what he does and he's a decent composer when he doesn't let all of the hot air fill up his head, but fuck... I'd take many people over him for my imaginary dream band.

Seriously, people like you make me ashamed to be an Ensiferum fan.

I seriously doubt that it will be released next year. It was supposed to come out for the past, what 3 years? More and more problems will continue arise to delay the album more and more.

As for the discussion about Ensiferum and Wintersun, I am a rather big fan of Wintersun and I find Ensiferum to be average among other Viking/Folk bands.

Just go and check out their website please.

Trust me man, they have been saying that since 2005. They always have said the album is right around the corner and that it is nearing completion, but still manages to be pushed back for another several months. If the album is to be released, I see it coming out in 2010, not 2009.

To continue my picnic analogy, Jari Maenpaa shows up with an enormous array of goods. All of them taste good, some are fantastic and others are just okay, but nothing is bad. He then enters a nearby house and begins cooking up his next dish. Five years later, he still occasionally pokes his head out of the window and swears that the cookies are almost perfect this time and that his salad was unsatisfactory, but he promises he'll fix it up and get it all out there as soon as possible. A horde of hungry idiots still wait by the window, drooling in anticipation.

Time will be released in a triple deluxe pack along with Duke Nukem Forever and the Halo movie.

I can't tell if you're trolling or being honest.
I shall assume you are being honest.

I don't think Jari has been revolutionary in any way. Not yet anyhow. Maybe later. Now, no. Ensiferum are an ok band, that oddly remind me of Enslaved and Bathory, but a hell of a lot more melodic and the black metal parts taken away. Not terrible, per se, but they get a little to much praise. His work with Wintersun isn't stellar either. He basically rehashed what Children of Bodom, Norther and Kalmah had been doing. The guy reallly gets way to much credit for what he does. He's not a talentless individual, but he sure as heck ain't gifted either. Perhaps Jari is like Orff (I know, a bad comparison, but the only one that comes into mind right now). He starts out shitty, then imitates the hell out of other people, and finally makes something lasting.
Just don't hold your breath.

He has written and played some of my favourite songs. Maybe he hasn't revolutionised anything - how many musicians have, really? - but to me he's a legend.

I like Jari, but Christ, is this guy ever overrated.

Not even close, though I have no desire to join this fanboy/anti-fanboy battle.

He's good, nothing more. He's a good, solid songwriter with some cool ideas, that gets way, waaaaay too over-hyped and fellated where he shouldn't be.

Jari is one of my favourite musicians ever, but I do agree that to say he revolutionized metal is too much. I'd also say his vocals are impressive considering his past lung surgery.

Of course, I'm definitely looking forward to Time in 2009

I wouldn't go as far as to say he revolutionized metal, but he is a very competent musician and song-writer - and I'd say he's definitely in the upper echelon at the moment...

Revolutionized metal is a bit too broad, his work is excellent by the standards of most Melodic Death and Power Metal bands I know, and he could arguably be the next logical step since Quorthon and Einherjer, but using the broad brush of a "metal revolutionary" implies that upstages guys like Ronnie Dio, Tony Iommi, Yngwie Malmsteen, Quorthon, Dave Mustaine, Kerry King, Joey Demaio, Nocturno Culto, Chuck Schuldiner, and a host of other influential figures from the early 80s up till the 2nd wave of black metal in 1994, and a few shortly after.

I think Ensiferum's debut was awesome, but Jari didn't write that by himself. I also thought "Iron" and the "Wintersun" album were great, but these albums are examples of fine tuning existing styles or hybrid styling, not something that would necessarily lend itself to a revolution per say.



Amen.

666head, how many COB, Norther and Kalmah albums have you heard in their entirety?

He was good at it, but I like the guitar melodies of Andre Olbrich (Blind Guardian), Alexi Laiho (CoB) and Stefan Weinerhall (Falconer) just as much. I wouldn't say "revolutionized" either, because there was no revolution that I can see that followed in his wake.

I've heard every CoB album, Norther album, and a few Kalmah albums. Wintersun is different but nothing amazingly original.

Agreed.

!
I'd do anything for DN:F

On topic:
Jari is a master musician-- no doubt. He does what Yngwie does, but way better. He hasn't revolutionized metal though. He is just an amazing musical genius.

Every poster in this thread could name who they think is the best metal musician and every answer would have several haters, and infinite disagreement. Since it has been established that he didn't revolutionize anything, nothing is left here. Jari is good, thread is not.

I love Jari's work (although I'm yet to here Iron) and I think that he is worthy of much of the praise he receives. However, I can easily understand people thinking that he is overrated. He may not have revolutionised metal, but he does produce fantastic music that stands out, ahead of most other modern bands. The self-titled Wintersun debut is my favourite album and it'll take something quite brilliant to take its place.

To summarise;

Revolutionised metal? I can't say he did.

Fantastic musician/song writer? Yes, indeed.

Edit: typo

When I first heard "Wintersun" back in 2005 it became an instant favorite. The entire album is solid and I became a fan of Jari's playing. His work with Ensiferum was no different. I personally think that Jari is a great guitarist/musician and a great song writer.

Jari is a very creative and proficient musician. I look forward to the release of Time. As a matter of fact, if I had to, I would camp outside of my local record store to get a copy.

However, he is but one of many artists I listen to who I can describe the same way.