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Nokturniis
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:13 pm
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:31 pm 
 

This is from a new video update sent to the people who pledged during the first crowdfunding run. They also announced that they are starting a Patreon page.

During the video update, Teemu had this to say:
Quote:
Eventually... after either the second or third crowdfunding, we can actually start building the proper Wintersun studio.


Crowdfunding update video (hopefully everyone can see it) - https://vimeo.com/407298479/ddff87cefc? ... &utm_term=

Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/wintersun?r=slt ... &utm_term=
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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 1082
Location: New Jersey
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:34 pm 
 

So basically Time 2 isn't happening. Got it.
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LycanthropeMoon
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:53 pm
Posts: 705
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:36 pm 
 

Oh well. He will continue not getting my money.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 28069
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:38 pm 
 

The virus wouldn't have stopped him if they could've had two or three crowd funding runs...
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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 704
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:45 pm 
 

How does this loser still have a band?

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 28069
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:49 pm 
 

This is definitely some sort of pyramid or MLM scheme by now.
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Deathdoom1992
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 9:19 am
Posts: 396
Location: Wallowing in a sea of sorrow.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:51 pm 
 

Who the fuck is still stupid enough to fall for this? I mean, I own Wintersun's albums, but fuck donating to Maenpaa to build his mansion or whatever.

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soul_schizm
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 am
Posts: 675
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:39 pm 
 

Deathdoom1992 wrote:
Who the fuck is still stupid enough to fall for this? I mean, I own Wintersun's albums, but fuck donating to Maenpaa to build his mansion or whatever.


86 people so far.

10 Euro per month.

This is like the World of Warcraft of bands. To hell with albums, subscription fees is where the real money is.

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Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5804
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:41 pm 
 

Man, I want almost 900 euro a month to lie to people. Did I miss the sign up sheet somewhere? Fuck.


I got halfway through the video in the OP, I honestly can't tell if they're serious or this is just a giant fucking joke. It's Jari so it has to be real, but damn if that didn't feel like a massive trolling.
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tahu157
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 pm
Posts: 670
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:53 pm 
 

Wasn't that always the case though? Like, the whole pitch for The Forest Seasons was "we'll do 3 of these campaigns and then we can build our dream studio" if memory serves. They did better than they expected to with the first campaign but I didn't think that effected the timeline much.

EDIT:
soul_schizm wrote:
This is like the World of Warcraft of bands. To hell with albums, subscription fees is where the real money is.

You jest but I think that really is where we're headed eventually.

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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:02 pm 
 

Jesus fucking christ. I mean, having monthly subscribers get random doo-dads and videos/pics and whatnot for a cheap fee is one thing (and really not a bad idea), but 3 fucking huge crowdfunding campaigns in order to release an album? No, what you need is to get your fucking head out of your ass you god-damn diva. If that truly is necessary for this opus you're creating, it better sound like your amp is directly in front of me.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 10510
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 11:48 pm 
 

Fucking hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Jari, you've outdone yourself. All that conning, all that empty hype for years and years.... just for him to beg for more. Even if this was pre-planned, the timing of this during a worldwide pandemic. Fuck this guy forever.
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:01 am 
 

I didn't even see the big deal about the first few Wintersun albums, but the gall this fucker has to continue to act like he's some holier than thou musician that needs his own personal studio to release a single fucking full length is astounding. Seriously incredible.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 1795
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:08 am 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
How does this loser still have a band?


Exactly what I'm wondering. And who the hell keeps giving him money. The guy plays music that is, at best decent, and not worth crowdfunding three or four times. There is better music being made out there, and by people who aren't completely full of themselves as artists and who aren't blattantly incompetent at managing a band.

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Morn Of Solace
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:19 am
Posts: 1825
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:58 am 
 

His "managing incompetence" netted the band hundreds of thousands of euros, even if to me this situation has become cult-like at this point i would stop calling him a bad manager

He is going to sell as for as long as people are going to buy, and i know several die hard fans that will go on financing him for the years to come, no questions asked

I highly doubt the new kickstarters are gonna be successful as the last one, but as long there are people who are willing to spend 50€ for his crappy music and magic pdf's this guy is gonna be wealthy

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Deathstalker1985
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:53 pm
Posts: 282
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:38 am 
 

tahu157 wrote:
Wasn't that always the case though? Like, the whole pitch for The Forest Seasons was "we'll do 3 of these campaigns and then we can build our dream studio" if memory serves. They did better than they expected to with the first campaign but I didn't think that effected the timeline much.


From what I vaguely remember I believe he said there would be 2 campaigns total to get the studio built. I don't remember any mention of 3 altogether, Jesus this guy is so fucking ridiculous.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 5964
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:52 am 
 

Hahahahaha! You can't make this shit up! :lol:

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8874
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:56 am 
 

Jari’s entire career consists of e-begging and occasionally making boring music, and he has enough of a cult of personality surrounding him that you just KNOW enough schmucks around the world will give him the money he needs for his sauna studio.
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Kerpak
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:11 am 
 

soul_schizm wrote:
Deathdoom1992 wrote:
This is like the World of Warcraft of bands. To hell with albums, subscription fees is where the real money is.


lmao. apt comparison.

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Gravetemplar
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:08 am
Posts: 1433
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 3:53 am 
 

Not sure if he is super dumb or just a genius.

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CannibalCorpse
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:55 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Austria
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:37 am 
 

Holy fucking shit.

Seriously, this guy just won't stop? I mean, even his mimics and gestures become more over the top and bizarre as time goes on. Does he have some kind of god-complex?

He got 500.000 Euros for releasing a mediocre bedroom-album. Now he still needs...two additional crowdfundings? Wasn't his initial goal to get 150.000 each?

Either way, this guy is full of shit and there's still a respectable horde backing his greedy guts. Just crazy.

...and of course the timing amidst a worldwide pandemic crisis is...can't really find a fitting word for this, really.
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Xenophon
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:07 am
Posts: 1159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:41 am 
 

Amazing that he can still convince people to blindly throw money at him. We need a "Best Business Moves in Metal" thread.

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Napalm_Satan
Ever-Opening Flower

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:27 pm
Posts: 3552
Location: London, England, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:48 am 
 

This guy is a joke.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 5964
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 7:28 am 
 

Xenophon wrote:
Amazing that he can still convince people to blindly throw money at him. We need a "Best Business Moves in Metal" thread.


I bet these guys all bursted into laughter after the filming for this thing was complete. There's just no other way around. Right?

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Spiner202
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 2152
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:19 am 
 

While I agree that this situation is pretty ridiculous, I don't think the blind devotion is unique to Wintersun. Insomnium and Omnium Gatherum recently capitalized on a similar situation: after cancelling their North American tour the following things happened:

(1) they set up a gofundme and received thousands and thousands of dollars - the Finnish government declared they legally weren't allowed to keep donations from people in Finland but could keep the rest (not sure why)
(2) there was a separate gofundme set up for them in the US where the tour was set up.... also raising a ton of money
(3) they put together a live stream show that they were charging about 8 Euros for. On the day of the stream, it didn't end up working, but they didn't refund people (I think they are sending them the video at a later date, but it kind of defeats the point of a live stream). The thing that blew my mind is looking at all the Facebook comments on how much people worship this band and absolutely nothing about it could be prevented.

I don't think this type of fandom is unique to Wintersun or even Insomnium (Sabaton is pretty bad too). Wintersun is a lot more blatant about how they're capitalizing on it, but I think the average person is willing to spend a lot of money on the bands they worship. Also, for what it's worth, I really enjoy Wintersun/Insomnium/Sabaton's music - I just think their fans are all kinda nuts.
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Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5804
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:27 am 
 

you make some good points, the rabid fandom isn't limited to wintersun in particular. i know plenty of people who donate money to bands and fests just cause, i dont understand it in general. wintersun just happens to be very flagrant about it and for whatever reason people still eat it up. i will buy stuff from bands or see shows and thats as far as im willing to go in supporting them. living the rock star life is a pipe dream, especially in metal.
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Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 218
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:41 am 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
Not sure if he is super dumb or just a genius.


Just an asshole siphoning money from his fans, I'd say. He doesn't need to be a genius, he needs the ability to bullshit and to ride his few good songs he's written... more than 15 years ago!!!

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9831
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:49 am 
 

The original scheme (or Time II Scheme mk. III.iv or whatever he's on) was to do three separate crowdfunding campaigns already, with the goal of roughly 250k each time until he got 750k, the estimate to build the studio. It's not surprising he's still going on as planned even if the first round utterly demolished the funding goal. The reason it's more of a cult-like atmosphere than just being a savvy businessman is because everybody can see how much of a transparent fraud this whole thing is except the people who have bought into the cult of personality surrounding him.

I just have no more energy to keep being perpetually angry about it. Just kinda hope he goes away forever at this point. Though I am interested in seeing that MeatWolf guy popping up and passionately defending this again.
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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 2798
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:57 am 
 

This saga has been going on for, what, almost 15 years or so at this point? The dude's ego is fascinating. As some posters have mentioned, crazy fandom is nothing new. Wintersun, however, has been so blatantly outrageous about asking for obscene amounts of money to do outlandish stuff like build studios or whatever to finish an album (spoiler: they can record it any time without their special Fortress of Solitude).

To be honest, I'm not going to feel bad for anyone who opened their wallet at some point and now feels swindled by these clowns. The writing has been on the wall since jump street that this whole thing was a bizarre demand, almost bordering on a farce. If you can't see this guy is a joker now, you probably never will.
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raumr
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:11 pm
Posts: 1541
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:28 am 
 

Wait, they haven't even built the studio yet? I thought all the previous fund campaigns were very successful, so I just assumed that the process was ongoing.

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Evoken
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:02 am
Posts: 858
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 10:32 am 
 

These guys are so smug and ridiculous, but their fans seem very eager to give away their hard-earned money so who can really blame them for milking every last dime they can out of their fanbase?

I looked up some of the original details from their first crowdfunding, and this is what they ultimately wanted to reach to build their studio:

The property 100.000 €
The building 250.000 €
Construction of the studio 150.000 €
Additional costs: Finnish taxes (& Indiegogo platform fee 5% + credit card fee 3%) 250.000 €
Total: 750.000 €

According to the old Ingiegogo page they raised a total of: £404,960
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/wintersun-crowdfunding--3#/


What's interesting is at least last time they tried to raise money, they had an upcoming album to use to get people donating. This time they seem to have nothing other than some live footage from their last tour, video blogs, an online community, etc. Will people really donate hundreds of thousands of dollars for things like that?

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Awblaster
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
Posts: 596
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:39 am 
 

Spiner202 wrote:
While I agree that this situation is pretty ridiculous, I don't think the blind devotion is unique to Wintersun. Insomnium and Omnium Gatherum recently capitalized on a similar situation: after cancelling their North American tour the following things happened:

(1) they set up a gofundme and received thousands and thousands of dollars - the Finnish government declared they legally weren't allowed to keep donations from people in Finland but could keep the rest (not sure why)
(2) there was a separate gofundme set up for them in the US where the tour was set up.... also raising a ton of money
(3) they put together a live stream show that they were charging about 8 Euros for. On the day of the stream, it didn't end up working, but they didn't refund people (I think they are sending them the video at a later date, but it kind of defeats the point of a live stream). The thing that blew my mind is looking at all the Facebook comments on how much people worship this band and absolutely nothing about it could be prevented.


I don't think it's particularly fair to compare the Insomnium/Omnium Gatherum situation to the cult of Wintersun. Cancelling a large tour like that means an absolute shitload of lost money - USA working visas are expensive (and you also need to go through a bullshit system to get them, which takes ages and is very uncertain, so often it's best to pay an agency even more to speed up the process), there's costs of merch printing (and then potentially a massive stock of t shirts with tour dates that didn't happen sitting around not being sold), there's flight costs, tour bus costs, backline hire costs, and then there's the income of the individuals involved - some might be taking time off from day jobs for the tour, or they might have turned down other work. The musicians also won't get their songwriter's royalties for playing their music live, they won't be selling anything on the road, they won't get the extra streams/sales with people who enjoyed the gig going back to them.

You do have a point about the rabid fanbases, for sure, but a crowdfunder to help out with a cancelled tour is a different situation to a narcissist bleeding his fans for every penny he can to maybe perhaps possibly do the thing he's been promising to actually do for years.
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tahu157
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:22 pm
Posts: 670
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:24 pm 
 

raumr wrote:
Wait, they haven't even built the studio yet? I thought all the previous fund campaigns were very successful, so I just assumed that the process was ongoing.

They've only done one out of the three campaigns they had planned on, although that one campaign made around double its funding goal.

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Discordant
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:27 pm
Posts: 192
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:43 pm 
 

This is like a soap opera... its so ridiculous, yet irresistibly entertaining. A part of me wants to see him succeed... but it would feel way more gratifying seeing this all fall apart
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 584
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:02 pm 
 

Evoken wrote:
What's interesting is at least last time they tried to raise money, they had an upcoming album to use to get people donating. This time they seem to have nothing other than some live footage from their last tour, video blogs, an online community, etc. Will people really donate hundreds of thousands of dollars for things like that?


Thing is, people are only donating 10 euros a month for that stuff - it's the collective of people that amounts to THAT much money. If people want to pay that, it's their choice - at least they're getting SOMETHING for their money. From a business standpoint, it's actually a very smart move and way to create steady income for your band - as long as you can keep providing content/value for your buyers.

What gets me and really irritates me about this, is how this whole fiasco started off of by them slamming their record label for not giving them some ridiculous thing that likely wasn't noted ANYWHERE in the contract they signed, and making themselves look like poor victims to the big evil business - when really they're acting like a bunch of entitled weeny pricks. "I live in a small apartment, woe is me! Where's my sauna??"

Bitch, don't tell me your album production suffered when it sounds like a metal version of Celine Dion. If they get their studio and Time II doesn't sound any better than Time I (or any other popular metal album that has orchestrations, of which there's dozens), I'm gonna laugh my ass off.

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8077
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:10 pm 
 

I'd honestly find this hilarious if it wasn't in the middle of a pandemic. Right now it just reads as tone deaf and scummy (not that it wasn't scummy before, but yeah).

There are much, much more important things to donate money to right now, such as hospitals, people who've lost their jobs, etc. I am not one to wish harm on others, but I seriously wish this guy's studio would burn down at this point, just so he'd lose all of that unearned money as quickly as it came.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8874
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:16 pm 
 

But if his studio burns down, where will he go to sauna? All the public ones in Finland are closed.
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Vigintiseptem
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:23 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
But if his studio burns down, where will he go to sauna? All the public ones in Finland are closed.

Lots and lots of apartments in Finland have a sauna. Even I have one.

I find this whole thing extremely funny and can't muster any hate for him. That face, that way of speaking, all the insane details of the plot... It's nearly Tiger King level of entertainment. It's disappointing that most if not all of the future update videos will likely be reserved to patrons. Hopefully someone will leak them.

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Waltz_of_Ghouls
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:24 am
Posts: 460
Location: Quebec City, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:33 pm 
 

Grifters gonna grift...

This guy has zero shame, it's incredible.
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teelelen
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:58 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Baltimore, United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:35 pm 
 

I was happy to give Devin Townsend some money for his canceled tour so he could go on doing his thing. Only asked for 50k, a reasonable sum. Plus, his music backs him up. I am not giving this dude shit though. What kind of idiot thinks they need to dream studio to do what they have already do in the past? Good luck is all I am going to say.

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