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Texas King
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 42
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:04 pm 
 

IMO, with this album from 1978, Judas Priest changed heavy metal, mostly because they discarded a 'bluesy' element in guitar playing that early Black Sabbath(Iommi) had. And I would say that album was a true forerunner of NWOBHM and most of 80's heavy metal.

What do you think?

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Opus
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Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:39 pm 
 

Not as I remember it.
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Tanuki
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:36 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:06 pm 
 

I don't think Stained Class discarded the blues at all. Sure, it starts off with 'Exciter', I'll give you that. But after that it's pensive, somber, atmospheric, emotional. I mean, that solo in 'Beyond the Realms of Death' is a bluesy force of nature. I'd be more inclined to bill Sin After Sin as the creator of the streamlined "traditional" metal sound, with stuff like 'Call for the Priest' and 'Dissident Aggressor' eschewing the blues and going ham. (Though I happen to think Sin After Sin is astronomically weaker than Stained Class, and it's probably my least favorite classic Priest album in general. Sorry folks.)

Stained Class totally had a massive impact on the metal scene and specifically NWOBHM though, I'm not denying that.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:56 pm 
 

I don't think it sold well upon release.

Total classic though.
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StainedClass95
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:14 am
Posts: 815
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:03 pm 
 

I've seen the opinion that Judas Priest left/discarded/downplayed/etc the blues element in metal quite a bit, but I've never been too sure about that. As Tanuki mentioned, a lot of their early solos and a number of songs had a clearly bluesy feel to them. On the other hand, if I listen to Sabbath, Deep Purple, or the other, earlier acts, there's definitely a kind of jam feel a lot of times that the Blues (some other styles as well) often had that JP usually didn't. Even as early as Sad Wings, they definitely felt more divorced from older blues-worshipping rock bands, say Cream, than the previous works by Black Sabbath had been, yet there are just as clearly elements that tie them back to the blues all throughout their career. It's an interesting question certainly.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:39 pm 
 

The fact that Tipton can play blues well makes his shredding a lot tastier.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:03 am 
 

StainedClass95 wrote:
I've seen the opinion that Judas Priest left/discarded/downplayed/etc the blues element in metal quite a bit, but I've never been too sure about that. As Tanuki mentioned, a lot of their early solos and a number of songs had a clearly bluesy feel to them. On the other hand, if I listen to Sabbath, Deep Purple, or the other, earlier acts, there's definitely a kind of jam feel a lot of times that the Blues (some other styles as well) often had that JP usually didn't. Even as early as Sad Wings, they definitely felt more divorced from older blues-worshipping rock bands, say Cream, than the previous works by Black Sabbath had been, yet there are just as clearly elements that tie them back to the blues all throughout their career. It's an interesting question certainly.

Absolutely true, but at the same time, Sad Wings of Destiny also opened up some more rigid bluesy forms in metal. I like to think that Sad Wings was a very important inspiration for future metal bands that explored grander, more epic territories, and so helped pioneer power metal, for example. Stained Class might've been more influential to bread-and-butter NWOBHM fare, and especially speed metal, but Sad Wings of Destiny seems to me like a missing link between early metal, and bands like Iron Maiden, then Helloween, etc..
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:34 am 
 

Yeah I've kinda thought this in the past. It's not a terrible idea. I've tended to side more with Metallica, Slayer etc finally cutting out all the Led Zeppelin from their sound on their first albums as being the real turning point that properly codified metal, separated it from rock etc. But Stained Class and certainly that opening track are good candidates too.
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Empyreal
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:43 am 
 

In tracks like "Sinner" and then most of Stained Class, you can hear the birth of almost every later European power/heavy metal act - all your Gamma Rays, Iron Saviors and the likes. Those machine gun, no nonsense riffs and the anthemic choruses, with the at least lesser blues influence unlike your Deep Purples, Budgies and Sabbaths of that time period. Hugely influential stuff, albeit in a very early form there as is natural.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:24 am 
 

I think accept gave birth to the helloweens of the world in big part because of the major key drunken bar shout along choruses.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8116
Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:30 am 
 

StainedClass95 wrote:
I've seen the opinion that Judas Priest left/discarded/downplayed/etc the blues element in metal quite a bit, but I've never been too sure about that. As Tanuki mentioned, a lot of their early solos and a number of songs had a clearly bluesy feel to them. On the other hand, if I listen to Sabbath, Deep Purple, or the other, earlier acts, there's definitely a kind of jam feel a lot of times that the Blues (some other styles as well) often had that JP usually didn't. Even as early as Sad Wings, they definitely felt more divorced from older blues-worshipping rock bands, say Cream, than the previous works by Black Sabbath had been, yet there are just as clearly elements that tie them back to the blues all throughout their career. It's an interesting question certainly.


I don't think it's in terms of not using blue notes from the scale, but rather the writing of the material itself. Both Glenn and KK could do bluesy but they also both did other stuff.

Of course, Stained Class is massively important in metal's development. Sad Wings... is, of course, massively important, too. I think they both helped solidify metal as a more album orientated genre rather than stuff with singles. Stained Class is important as none of its lyrical themes are "Hey, let's rock, babe!" it's a consistently dark album (even 'Better By You, Better than Me' takes on some significant, contextual darkness and is surprisingly tough for a love song). Instrumentally, while Priest had a great drummer on their previous album, it is clear that Les Binks is much more metal in the way that he plays. KK and Glen add more neoclassical stuff than they had done before and their interplay is ripping. The one-upmanship present would obviously inspire future bands like Maiden, Mercyful Fate, Trouble, you-name-em. Halford's performance, of course, would inspire many. Even the lyrics are very metal - "impaled with betrayal" and how about one of the most nebulous album artworks in the 1970s?

There's a lot of 'of coursing' here, you'll notice.

That consistent darkness must have been an influence - consciously or not - on many bands who thought they could do this metal stuff without the rock songs as a mood-breaker.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:03 pm 
 

the machine like aspect of metal is one of its fundamental traits and Priest in the 70s definitely pioneered the development of it. I have to mention virgin killer but especially taken by force by the scorpions as 2 other albums that were at the front of this development

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Terri23
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:53 am
Posts: 2414
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:18 pm 
 

Is Exciter the first example of metal using double bass drums? I know guys such as Barlow, Moon, Paice, Mason, Mitchell and Baker used them in the 60s and 70s, but I'm not sure anyone used them before Binks on Stained Class in metal.
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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 8116
Location: York, North Yorkshire
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:23 pm 
 

Cozy Powell and, probably, Philthy Animal were using them prior to Binks. Hell, wasn't there even double bass on Sin After Sin?

Edit: I need to check Philthy actually - I can't remember much of the debut.
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