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Texas King
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:29 am 
 

Do you believe in the premise that all metal music (with all subgenres) is influenced by early Black Sabbath?
Personally I don't, because I don't find any Sabbath influence in power metal.

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Raped Christ
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:01 am
Posts: 10
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:57 am 
 

Texas King wrote:
Personally I don't, because I don't find any Sabbath influence in power metal.


No? How about "The wizard" but sped up?
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Temple Of Blood
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
Posts: 2597
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:06 pm 
 

Texas King wrote:
Do you believe in the premise that all metal music (with all subgenres) is influenced by early Black Sabbath?
Personally I don't, because I don't find any Sabbath influence in power metal.


That's because a lot of flower metal isn't real metal at all, it's just co-opted the term.

Metal is dark, guitar riff-based rock music. Sabbath has those characteristics as does real metal.
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Sepulchrave
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 1660
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:15 pm 
 

No.
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Methuen
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:55 pm
Posts: 275
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:27 pm 
 

Absolutely, if you view things as a family tree - and just like familial relationships, the link is there, but direct influence / relevance decreases as you get further down the family sub-genre tree.

For the specific comment about power metal - Children of the Grave ? it even has a riff and nice major chord stuff that Kai Hansen could rip off with a smile.
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l Lunaris l
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:14 pm
Posts: 8
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:31 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
That's because a lot of flower metal isn't real metal at all, it's just co-opted the term.

Metal is dark, guitar riff-based rock music. Sabbath has those characteristics as does real metal.


Since when does metal have to be "dark"? And what exactly do you define that as? And I'd quite like an explanation as to how power metal isn't real metal.

While you're at it, you might want to drop the dumb "flower metal" insult term if you actually want anyone to take what you say about it seriously. You don't have to be petty and childish just because you don't like a genre.

Texas King wrote:
Do you believe in the premise that all metal music (with all subgenres) is influenced by early Black Sabbath?
Personally I don't, because I don't find any Sabbath influence in power metal.


The answer to this question is a maybe from me. Sabbath was a huge influence on metal for sure, but I don't know if we can say all metal can trace its influences back to it.

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blackmantram
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:51 pm
Posts: 562
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:38 pm 
 

Yes, I think virtually all metal has been directly or indirectly influenced by black sabbath (and other bands such as deep purple, led zeppelin, judas priest, budgie) in one way or another. Influences are not direct but also indirect. ie. Power metal is universally influenced by Accept which in turn has had some obvious black sabbath influences in their early material.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 26907
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:40 pm 
 

Plenty of power metal comes from Helloween, which comes from the more upbeat, lighter side of rock from back then (Rainbow, Purple, Scorpions, etc), rather than Sabbath. But I bet a lot of them respected Sabbath and took ideas from their more upbeat, proggy moments on SBS and Sabotage.
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MetallicaTrueFan
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:23 pm
Posts: 520
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:05 pm 
 

I think the idea that Black Sabbath is the be all, end all in terms of patient zero where Metal came from is a bit of an exaggeration. The formulas that helped created heavy metal were based on the heavy psychedelic rock and hard rock from the 60's but it also goes back to the wildest rock n roll of the 50's (the Metal before Metal was a thing). While you could say that Black Sabbath was heavily influential in the dark and gritty atmosphere that has been part of Extreme Metal like Black, Death, Doom, Groove and Thrash Metal... I could say that a lot of the more melodic Metal got its influence from Deep Purple who were probably the earliest example of a band playing the complex, and fast metal people would recognize today. In fact I am one of those people who thinks that Iron Maiden and Judas Priest were more influenced by Deep Purple then Black Sabbath. There is a lot of Proto Metal that helped establish the genre for what it is. These include bands like...

Alice Cooper
Atomic Rooster
Bang
Bloodrock
Blue Cheer
Budgie
Buffalo
Dust
Flower Travelin Band
Iron Butterfly
Leaf Hound
Lucifer's Friend
Sir Lord Baltimore
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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 2063
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:31 pm 
 

At this point I think it’s fairly inescapable because you’re either directly influenced by Sabbath or indirectly (you’re influenced by a band that was influenced by Sabbath). Also you can still be influenced by a band without really co-opting any of their sound however if you’re playing rock based music there’s always going to be some level of overlap.
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RattEurope
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:59 pm
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:41 pm 
 

MetallicaTrueFan wrote:
I could say that a lot of the more melodic Metal got its influence from Deep Purple who were probably the earliest example of a band playing the complex, and fast metal people would recognize today. In fact I am one of those people who thinks that Iron Maiden and Judas Priest were more influenced by Deep Purple then Black Sabbath.


Well that's just a fact isn't it? Black Sabbath definitely seems to be a case of retrospective romanticism. Most heavy metal through the early 80s did not seem to consider them as a primary influence. I wonder if the Dio-era or Ozzy's solo albums revived people's interest in the band during the 80s.
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