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EntilZha
Retired

Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
Posts: 2119
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 am 
 

emperor_zola wrote:
Women are less aggressive, and naturally trying to reach the harmony and peace.

You've never been to an office, have you?

Also: Different =! weaker.
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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 657
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:58 am 
 

EntilZha wrote:
emperor_zola wrote:
Women are less aggressive, and naturally trying to reach the harmony and peace.

You've never been to an office, have you?

Also: Different =! weaker.


Civilized ppl. can handle that, but we have gypsies here so I know what you mean. Now you can jump to this sentence but it's the same strong evidence on both side.
Are you into math? Different means not equal. <, > symbols, huhh?

BTW have you ever hear about genetics? Super male and super female? Just because of the extra X or Y gene.

OK, it doesn't lead to anywhere, you have your own fix ideas.
I'm off.

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FasterDisaster
Metal Pounder

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 8000
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:21 pm 
 

kimiwind wrote:
kingnuuuur wrote:
Irimias wrote:
For all of you who asked for the pics:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jmj0tndzyyo

... Was that really necessary?

Maybe for some......
However it's real shocking, where the hell you got those pictures???
I cannot really watch them! i downloaded the file but i just saw there is 16 pics in the rar file. i think i will not really open this shit.


Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. I'm on a Mac OS, so it has a thumbnail sized image, so I don't have to open the file to see the picture. Let's just say, I could have done without seeing those.

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DaBuddha
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:30 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:20 pm 
 

Never listened to this band. Are they any good?
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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6026
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:26 pm 
 

DaBuddha wrote:
Never listened to this band. Are they any good?


http://mp3.de/trendschmiede/genre/band/080100/170740/1
Legal link to some songs

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emperor_zola
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:22 pm
Posts: 657
Location: Hungary
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:28 pm 
 

DaBuddha wrote:
Never listened to this band. Are they any good?


listen here : http://www.carpenoctem.org/index1.html

not bad, but if you know some german black metal bands, you will not be surprised.

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Duisterling
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:12 pm
Posts: 667
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:31 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. I'm on a Mac OS, so it has a thumbnail sized image, so I don't have to open the file to see the picture. Let's just say, I could have done without seeing those.

Same here. Those thumbnails reminded me of that album cover from Molesting the Decapitated by Devourment. Now that I think of it, that's actually pretty sick. Didn't someone (EntilZha?) mention that the guy was going crazy defending Devourment? Perhaps Matthias Schoormann liked that record a bit too much.

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HybridThing
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:09 pm
Posts: 457
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 2:32 pm 
 

emperor_zola wrote:
EntilZha wrote:
...women are as able as men, as this has certainly played part in how the workforce in communist states was organized.


and obviously didn't work!


There were many different facts as to why communism failed. And trust me, it wasn't because of women playing a part in their workforce.

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Kerpak
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:48 am
Posts: 156
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:35 pm 
 

Physical strength is completely irrelevant.
An unarmed human can't do anything against a gun, and most humans can't do anything against a knife either.

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FasterDisaster
Metal Pounder

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 8000
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:36 pm 
 

Well, at least there's decent conversation not related to putting decapitated ladies in weird, awkward positions.

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AstralCorpse
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:07 pm
Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:10 pm 
 

EntilZha wrote:
If you read his entire posts rather than just taking random snippets out of context perhaps you would understand. He did clearly state that a man committing a crime against a woman is a worse offense than committing a crime against a man, because women are inherently unable to defend themselves against men. There's no sweet-talking it by taking sentence fragments out of context, it's written right there. He also mentioned a bit about sending (such) sociopaths into coalmines, which has two possible interpretations: Either it happens on his order through a governing body (law), or he is going to personally chase every sociopath on this planet down and personally escort each and every one of them down into that coalmine. The latter is so absurdly implausible that only the former seems logical. Yes, he did not say it directly, but if it's the only logical interpretation he might as well have said it directly.

This:
peterlang wrote:
and he meant weakness in a physical sense, which - regardless how democratic you are - you cannot deny.

...of course is plain bullshit. That the majority of women today are physically weaker than the majority of men today has nothing to do with the fact that they are women but with the fact that building muscles/strength has a larger emphasis on the male gender in today's culture. In matriarchic cultures it could be just the opposite, because women are not - in no way - inherently weaker than men.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

"Such undisputed sexual dimorphism include gonadal differentiation, internal genital differentiation, external genital differentiation, breast differentiation, muscle mass differentiation, height differentiation and hair differentiation."

Also, your extreme over-reading of emperorzola's comments indicates that YOU are the one with a political agenda, not him. And obviously he's not serious about the coal mine thing as a means of executing criminals; you're analysis, however logically sound, is not needed.

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Byrain
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 4:37 pm 
 

AstralCorpse wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

"Such undisputed sexual dimorphism include gonadal differentiation, internal genital differentiation, external genital differentiation, breast differentiation, muscle mass differentiation, height differentiation and hair differentiation."


Muscle mass and height do not quantify how well someone can defend themselves and neither does gender. The general differences between men and women in self-defense capabilities are mostly due to societal values which are imposed through peer pressure.

As for the specific incident at hand, I would think (Without knowing many details or even looking at the pics) that his attack was sudden and mostly (Or completely) unexpected. If so, most humans regardless of their build or gender would of probably not made it out alive.

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AstralCorpse
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Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:07 pm
Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:04 pm 
 

Byrain wrote:
AstralCorpse wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism

"Such undisputed sexual dimorphism include gonadal differentiation, internal genital differentiation, external genital differentiation, breast differentiation, muscle mass differentiation, height differentiation and hair differentiation."


Muscle mass and height do not quantify how well someone can defend themselves and neither does gender. The general differences between men and women in self-defense capabilities are mostly due to societal values which are imposed through peer pressure.


Uh huh, I'm guessing you've never done much fighting. There are weight classes in all combative sports for a reason; muscle mass and height have an enormous effect on defensive ability (there are, of course, many other factors, but to deny the importance of size is ridiculous).

To say that gender is NOT correlated with defensive ability, for specifically biological reasons, is complete egalitarian bullshit. Cite me a single credible source arguing that "general differences between men and women in self-defense capabilities are mostly due to societal values which are imposed through peer pressure."

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Sosomojo
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 7:18 pm
Posts: 97
PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 7:45 pm 
 

EntilZha wrote:
No, "western propaganda" spreads the myth of female weakness quite happily. If anything, living in the Eastern Bloc should have taught you that women are as able as men, as this has certainly played part in how the workforce in communist states was organized.


This is dead wrong. I say this as someone who studies genetics at a university level. It is true that the environment does have an effect on physical strength, but a lot of it is actually genetic.

Now, how to explain this. The Y chromosome does not only contain the SRY gene which causes the development of the testis. It also contains a lot of other regulatory genetic code that will alter the behaviour of the transcription of other genes (located on the autosomes or "non-gender chromosomes", or on the X chromosome). Some of these genes relate to muscle growth, and others relate to other things (some even relate to the development of the brain).

So YES, females have a genetic disposition to be weaker than males. This does not however mean that all males are stronger than all females, since both the male and female populations will follow curves of normal distribution when any quantitative trait is measured and plotted against the number of people who have that level of said trait, with the curves for the two sexes just slightly dislocated in such a way that they largely overlap.

These are curves of normal distribution, in case you don't know:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... on_PDF.svg

In my example, they will be slightly dislocated sideways in a way that they largely overlap.

The sideways orientation of the curve is their general genetic disposition, while the variance in this case could be both individual genetic differences among individuals as well as environmental effects.

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Byrain
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 1276
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:41 am 
 

AstralCorpse wrote:
Uh huh, I'm guessing you've never done much fighting. There are weight classes in all combative sports for a reason; muscle mass and height have an enormous effect on defensive ability (there are, of course, many other factors, but to deny the importance of size is ridiculous).

To say that gender is NOT correlated with defensive ability, for specifically biological reasons, is complete egalitarian bullshit. Cite me a single credible source arguing that "general differences between men and women in self-defense capabilities are mostly due to societal values which are imposed through peer pressure."


The method he used to kill her according to the ma entry is strangulation, given proper technique (Not hard) such a method would take mere seconds to take drastic effect with minimal force. How is it that a man would be more likely to survive such an attack then a women? Other then mentality, which is more of a trait of society then genetics.

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DGYDP
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm
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Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:44 am 
 

Because men are physically stronger then women?
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AstralCorpse
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:07 pm
Posts: 73
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:50 am 
 

Byrain wrote:
AstralCorpse wrote:
Uh huh, I'm guessing you've never done much fighting. There are weight classes in all combative sports for a reason; muscle mass and height have an enormous effect on defensive ability (there are, of course, many other factors, but to deny the importance of size is ridiculous).

To say that gender is NOT correlated with defensive ability, for specifically biological reasons, is complete egalitarian bullshit. Cite me a single credible source arguing that "general differences between men and women in self-defense capabilities are mostly due to societal values which are imposed through peer pressure."


The method he used to kill her according to the ma entry is strangulation, given proper technique (Not hard) such a method would take mere seconds to take drastic effect with minimal force. How is it that a man would be more likely to survive such an attack then a women? Other then mentality, which is more of a trait of society then genetics.


Strangling someone takes longer than you think. They don't just pass out right away, it takes 20-30 seconds.

Even if it were a few seconds though, that would still be enough time to utilize all of one's strength.

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Cyrax666
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Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 1519
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:31 am 
 

Sorry guys but to be honest I'm a bit skeptical about these pictures, is there like a reputable news article about it or something?
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Duisterling
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:12 pm
Posts: 667
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 7:57 am 
 

Cyrax666 wrote:
Sorry guys but to be honest I'm a bit skeptical about these pictures, is there like a reputable news article about it or something?

Haven't searched myself, but this was posted earlier on:

Irimias wrote:
And this is the story reported by a German news site:

http://www.rtlregional.de/player.php?id ... t&seite=30

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6026
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:06 am 
 

Duisterling wrote:
Cyrax666 wrote:
Sorry guys but to be honest I'm a bit skeptical about these pictures, is there like a reputable news article about it or something?

Haven't searched myself, but this was posted earlier on:

Irimias wrote:
And this is the story reported by a German news site:

http://www.rtlregional.de/player.php?id ... t&seite=30


http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/vermischte ... rsitz.html
Another newspaper article - describes the murder, but does not mention any photos.

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masters_apprentice
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Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 10:09 pm
Posts: 41
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:01 am 
 

well, out of morbid curiosity, or maybe cause i'm just a sick fuck, i'd like to see the pics...none of the links to them work for me...i did see the one of the head on the desk. it looked quite a bit like the girl in the pic, but there was no blood which is a little weird since we are supposed to believe they were taken right after the murder.
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masters_apprentice
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:02 am 
 

well, out of morbid curiosity, or maybe cause i'm just a sick fuck, i'd like to see the pics...none of the links to them work for me...i did see the one of the head on the desk. it looked quite a bit like the girl in the pic, but there was no blood which is a little weird since we are supposed to believe they were taken right after the murder.
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EntilZha
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:05 am 
 

The human head only holds so much blood. Once it's all out it's all out. Also, the head was severed post-mortem, which might have an effect on how much blood comes out of the head as well.
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Ozenrol
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 11:17 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:04 pm 
 

I just saw the rest of the pictures. They certainly look real to me. Reading the thread on the 'life of debauchery' site (where they were originally posted) is very enlightening.

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OzzyApu
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Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:19 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
kimiwind wrote:
kingnuuuur wrote:
Irimias wrote:
For all of you who asked for the pics:

http://www.mediafire.com/?jmj0tndzyyo

... Was that really necessary?

Maybe for some......
However it's real shocking, where the hell you got those pictures???
I cannot really watch them! i downloaded the file but i just saw there is 16 pics in the rar file. i think i will not really open this shit.

Yeah, it's pretty fucked up. I'm on a Mac OS, so it has a thumbnail sized image, so I don't have to open the file to see the picture. Let's just say, I could have done without seeing those.

I must really have an issue, because those pics didn't irk me in the least bit. Yes, she's dead and it's pretty messed up, but I didn't exactly have any emotion toward it. I've seen dead bodies, sure, but, I don't know. Still a horrible thing to have been done. I'm not trying to act tough, but... hmm.
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DunnRiffHorror_EHSB
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:48 pm 
 

masters_apprentice wrote:
well, out of morbid curiosity, or maybe cause i'm just a sick fuck, i'd like to see the pics...none of the links to them work for me...i did see the one of the head on the desk. it looked quite a bit like the girl in the pic, but there was no blood which is a little weird since we are supposed to believe they were taken right after the murder.


The other pictures in the .rar file that OzzyApu quoted the link to in the above post are much more graphic. Like him, I wasn't disturbed in the slightest. Not much can shock me anymore. I'm a big fan/collector of mondo/shockumentary films, so I've also looked at enough footage/photos of dead bodies to say those are authentic.

It's terrible what the guy did. He was obviously very fucked up emotionally and mentally. It's a shame that a woman lost her life at this man's hands.
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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:55 pm 
 

The pictures being disturbing or not isn't the issue here. It's that son of a bitch attitude of happily and readily spreading pictures of the murder, let alone death, of real people. It's an insult to their families and a sign of complete and utter lack of respect from the person or community responsible, even towards other people who themselves have lost family members. It's disgraceful and completely unnecessary, don't do it.

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Ice_As_Steel
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:16 pm 
 

Guys citing womens' lower muscle mass seem to be missing the point that an inability to defend themselves from more muscular men is still largely a cultural thing. A 300 pound muscular behemoth who fights like a fifth grader could easilly get his ass kicked by a 150 pound blackbelt woman. Most women don't learn how to use the strength they do have to any meaningful effect.
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DunnRiffHorror_EHSB
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Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:47 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:31 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
The pictures being disturbing or not isn't the issue here. It's that son of a bitch attitude of happily and readily spreading pictures of the murder, let alone death, of real people. It's an insult to their families and a sign of complete and utter lack of respect from the person or community responsible, even towards other people who themselves have lost family members. It's disgraceful and completely unnecessary, don't do it.


I agree. The guy who committed the murder was the one who took the photos and posted them on an internet forum for the whole world to see. He obviously did not care about the family of the woman he murdered. Whoever saved and distributed the files is also being disrespectful. However, I wanted to view them, and I deleted the rar file and pictures from my hard drive right afterward.
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cultofkraken
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:38 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
The pictures being disturbing or not isn't the issue here. It's that son of a bitch attitude of happily and readily spreading pictures of the murder, let alone death, of real people. It's an insult to their families and a sign of complete and utter lack of respect from the person or community responsible, even towards other people who themselves have lost family members. It's disgraceful and completely unnecessary, don't do it.


Well people are fascinated by death, always have been. I don't think you are in a place to tell people what and what not to do; If it's part of your "moral code" then you don't do it. Fair enough chief?
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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:45 pm 
 

Ice_As_Steel wrote:
Guys citing womens' lower muscle mass seem to be missing the point that an inability to defend themselves from more muscular men is still largely a cultural thing. A 300 pound muscular behemoth who fights like a fifth grader could easilly get his ass kicked by a 150 pound blackbelt woman. Most women don't learn how to use the strength they do have to any meaningful effect.


I don't think that is the scenario anyone has contention with. What I believe they are saying is that a 150 lb Male black belt would have a genetic advantage over a 150 lb Female black belt because of the muscle mass. There's nothing cultural about that, though one must say there are "always" exceptions to the rule, however an exception does not make the rule.
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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:19 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
kingnuuuur wrote:
The pictures being disturbing or not isn't the issue here. It's that son of a bitch attitude of happily and readily spreading pictures of the murder, let alone death, of real people. It's an insult to their families and a sign of complete and utter lack of respect from the person or community responsible, even towards other people who themselves have lost family members. It's disgraceful and completely unnecessary, don't do it.


Well people are fascinated by death, always have been. I don't think you are in a place to tell people what and what not to do; If it's part of your "moral code" then you don't do it. Fair enough chief?

It's not me you have to ask to decide whether this is "fair enough" or not. :roll:

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:16 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
cultofkraken wrote:
kingnuuuur wrote:
The pictures being disturbing or not isn't the issue here. It's that son of a bitch attitude of happily and readily spreading pictures of the murder, let alone death, of real people. It's an insult to their families and a sign of complete and utter lack of respect from the person or community responsible, even towards other people who themselves have lost family members. It's disgraceful and completely unnecessary, don't do it.


Well people are fascinated by death, always have been. I don't think you are in a place to tell people what and what not to do; If it's part of your "moral code" then you don't do it. Fair enough chief?

It's not me you have to ask to decide whether this is "fair enough" or not. :roll:


You are right, I don't have to ask ANYONE. World ain't fair, time to toughen up.
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PvtNinjer
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:00 pm 
 

Seriously, what the hell is with all this whining about respect for the dead. Sounds like a bunch of dirty Christians!

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Ice_As_Steel
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Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:51 am
Posts: 663
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:01 pm 
 

cultofkraken wrote:
Ice_As_Steel wrote:
Guys citing womens' lower muscle mass seem to be missing the point that an inability to defend themselves from more muscular men is still largely a cultural thing. A 300 pound muscular behemoth who fights like a fifth grader could easilly get his ass kicked by a 150 pound blackbelt woman. Most women don't learn how to use the strength they do have to any meaningful effect.


I don't think that is the scenario anyone has contention with. What I believe they are saying is that a 150 lb Male black belt would have a genetic advantage over a 150 lb Female black belt because of the muscle mass. There's nothing cultural about that, though one must say there are "always" exceptions to the rule, however an exception does not make the rule.


How many black belts go out raping? Not many, I'd suspect. The mentality required to train hard and focus one's mind that goes into excelling in martial arts is rather at odds with the mentality to go out and commit rape.
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EntilZha
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:02 pm 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
Seriously, what the hell is with all this whining about respect for the dead.

It's a bit of an irony that the same people who whine about respect for the dead are the most vocal about talking shit about the perpetrator. Double-standards hard at work.
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Byrain
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:03 pm 
 

AstralCorpse wrote:
Strangling someone takes longer than you think. They don't just pass out right away, it takes 20-30 seconds.

Even if it were a few seconds though, that would still be enough time to utilize all of one's strength.


20-30 seconds for someone who doesn't know what they are doing and attempts to crush the windpipe seems reasonable. Though, you are forgetting about the arteries on the neck.

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EntilZha
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:21 pm 
 

Byrain wrote:
AstralCorpse wrote:
Strangling someone takes longer than you think. They don't just pass out right away, it takes 20-30 seconds.

Even if it were a few seconds though, that would still be enough time to utilize all of one's strength.


20-30 seconds for someone who doesn't know what they are doing and attempts to crush the windpipe seems reasonable. Though, you are forgetting about the arteries on the neck.

I'm no expert on the terminology, but doesn't strangling actually specifically imply the arteries on the neck, while the windpipe thingy would be asphyxiation?
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kingnuuuur
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:36 pm 
 

EntilZha wrote:
PvtNinjer wrote:
Seriously, what the hell is with all this whining about respect for the dead.

It's a bit of an irony that the same people who whine about respect for the dead are the most vocal about talking shit about the perpetrator. Double-standards hard at work.

where?

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cultofkraken
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:51 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
EntilZha wrote:
PvtNinjer wrote:
Seriously, what the hell is with all this whining about respect for the dead.

It's a bit of an irony that the same people who whine about respect for the dead are the most vocal about talking shit about the perpetrator. Double-standards hard at work.

where?


He's dead as well.
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lord_ghengis wrote:
Tony the Peroy Slayer, bards shall sing your story.

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