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Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?
https://forum.metal-archives.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=86068
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Author:  waiguoren [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Pratl1971 wrote:
waiguoren wrote:
And who is that old Jewish psychologist with the overwhelming Brooklyn accent that he's always interviewing? Is this woman even into metal?


Supposedly she's a professor at DePaul University here in Chicago and has been at every Manowar show since 1985...as a non-Manowar fan I don't know and don't care, but the woman knows her stuff.


That's a lot of trips to Europe for her then. I don't recall her being a Manowar fan ever mentioned though, so it's good to know she actually likes some metal, I always wondered why he always valued her opinion so much and just assumed he was having sexual relations with her.

Author:  Pratl1971 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

My friend has seen her at a lot of shows around Chicago, and he recognized her right away. I never pay attention to such things.

Author:  Adept128 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Here's the episode list.

Nov 11: Pre Metal
Nov 19: Early Metal US
Dec 3: Early Metal UK
Dec 10: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal
Dec 17: Glam
Dec 31: Thrash
Jan 7: Grunge
Jan 14: Nu Metal
Jan 21: Shock Rock
Jan 28: Power Metal
Feb 4: Progressive Metal

All of the promise that I saw in this show was completely gone the second that I saw this list. I'm so pissed that there is no dedicated episode for death metal, black metal, and doom metal, that I'm ignoring the fact that there are episodes on Glam, Grunge, Nu-metal, and even FUCKING SHOCK ROCK!!!!! :fuck: :fuck: :fuck: :guns:

Author:  Spiner202 [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I would bet that list was determined entirely by VH1 and not Sam Dunn. He clearly is familiar with both Death and Black Metal, and I'd imagine that VH1 thinks they couldn't generate enough interest in episodes on those subgenres.

I'd love to see that Shock Rock episode though, if only for a ton of focus on Alice Cooper :D

Author:  henkkjelle [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Grunge: because this will attract the Nirvana crowd.
Shock Rock: because people will watch anything with "shock" in its name.
Nu-metal: because this will attract all the slipknot fans and co.
Glam: because apparantly tight leopard print pants are still popular.

Yay!
:ugh:

Author:  Ritual_Suicide [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Anyone willing to bet that the NWOBHM episode will focus entirely on Judas Priest (who are not NWOBHM) and Iron Maiden?

Author:  csehszlovakze [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Ritual_Suicide wrote:
Anyone willing to bet that the NWOBHM episode will focus entirely on Judas Priest (who are not NWOBHM) and Iron Maiden?

Venom and Saxon (among others) are also worth mentioning but I'm afraid you'll be right. And after seeing Cradle in Norwegian BM list in M:aHJ, he'll include $elloutica here.

[off]
If anyone is interested in a black metal documentary, watch Until the Light Takes us.
[/off]

Author:  Shalk [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Adept128 wrote:
Here's the episode list.

Nov 11: Pre Metal
Nov 19: Early Metal US
Dec 3: Early Metal UK
Dec 10: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal
Dec 17: Glam
Dec 31: Thrash
Jan 7: Grunge
Jan 14: Nu Metal
Jan 21: Shock Rock

Jan 28: Power Metal
Feb 4: Progressive Metal



Fuck Dunn.

Author:  StevenWright [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

this is how it's gonna go down (based on sam dunn's logic and vh1's limits)

Dec 10: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal <---the judas priest and iron maiden episode, like said before
Dec 17: Glam<-----the motley crue episode
Dec 31: Thrash<--- the metallica episode
Jan 7: Grunge<---- the nirvana episode, like previously mentioned
Jan 14: Nu Metal<------ the lol episode
Jan 21: Shock Rock<----the manson episode
Jan 28: Power Metal<-----I wanna say rhapsody of fire episode, but idk if Vh1 knows them -facepalm-
Feb 4: Progressive Metal<----- the rush and dream theatre episode

But I'm gonna watch it for the same reason I seldom watch tms or infidelamsterdam vids

Author:  DemonHellSpawn [ Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I think Grunge has a place on a legit list, if only a small place for historical significance. Of course it would have to talk about bands other than Nirvana though.

Author:  Aurone [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I'm with Spinner in that I think VH1 is having a say in what's to be shown. I think if he could, Dunn would focus entire episodes on Black and Death Metal since he obviously touched upon them in his previous movies. If you notice, most of the episodes are focusing on the most commerican parts of Metal with problebly the lowest populer genre being Power. With Metal: A headbangers journey and Global Metal, they where his own projects, this however has someone else involved with more financial interests.

Author:  StevenWright [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I'd say symphonic or folk metal is the least popular genre; when I play it, people don't even know it's metal.

Author:  ~Guest 226319 [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Maybe that says more about its being metal than its popularity.

Author:  Acrobat [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

The NWOBHM episode will be strictly on Anvil.

Author:  lord_ghengis [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

How did he manage to fill up half an hour of early UK heavy metal now that Dio is dead?

Author:  csehszlovakze [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

lord_ghengis wrote:
How did he manage to fill up half an hour of early UK heavy metal now that Dio is dead?

Your question has the answer.

Author:  MortalScum [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Adept128 wrote:
Here's the episode list.

Nov 11: Pre Metal
Nov 19: Early Metal US
Dec 3: Early Metal UK
Dec 10: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal
Dec 17: Glam
Dec 31: Thrash
Jan 7: Grunge
Jan 14: Nu Metal
Jan 21: Shock Rock

Jan 28: Power Metal
Feb 4: Progressive Metal


Since when the hell did these become metal genres? I can understand the dumbasses at VH1 thinking that nu metal and some shock rock is metal, but grunge? I've never met anyone who thought Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots were metal bands. Hell most of the other shows on VH1 say that grunge killed metal in the 90's.

Author:  Zelkiiro [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I think the studio heads are actively trying to forget folk, symphonic, gothic, doom, black, and death metal exist.

And speed metal, too. Fucking SPEED METAL. MOTORHEAD, MOTHERFUCKERS. THERE'S YOUR HALF-HOUR OF MATERIAL, TALK ABOUT FUCKING MOTORHEAD.

Author:  TheOldOne [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Your all forgetting the modern way of thinking, goes something like this,

"But dude it has screaming in it, so it must be metal"

Yes, I have actually heard this.

Author:  Pratl1971 [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

MortalScum wrote:
Adept128 wrote:
Here's the episode list.

Nov 11: Pre Metal
Nov 19: Early Metal US
Dec 3: Early Metal UK
Dec 10: New Wave Of British Heavy Metal
Dec 17: Glam
Dec 31: Thrash
Jan 7: Grunge
Jan 14: Nu Metal
Jan 21: Shock Rock

Jan 28: Power Metal
Feb 4: Progressive Metal


Since when the hell did these become metal genres? I can understand the dumbasses at VH1 thinking that nu metal and some shock rock is metal, but grunge? I've never met anyone who thought Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots were metal bands. Hell most of the other shows on VH1 say that grunge killed metal in the 90's.

Grunge did not kill metal - SHIT rock being touted as 'metal' is what pushed the real music back underground.

Author:  DemonHellSpawn [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

MortalScum wrote:
Since when the hell did these become metal genres? I can understand the dumbasses at VH1 thinking that nu metal and some shock rock is metal, but grunge? I've never met anyone who thought Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots were metal bands. Hell most of the other shows on VH1 say that grunge killed metal in the 90's.


Alice in Chains and Soundgarden are on the archives. And Nirvana's debut was very sludgy and heavily influenced by Melvins.

Author:  Spiner202 [ Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

StevenWright wrote:
Jan 21: Shock Rock<----the manson episode

It's going to focus much more on Alice Cooper than Manson. Cooper has been on nearly every Dunn release and he's the focus of Dunn's next major documentary, so I'd bet that episode will be focused around him.

Author:  Twisted_Psychology [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Spiner202 wrote:
StevenWright wrote:
Jan 21: Shock Rock<----the manson episode

It's going to focus much more on Alice Cooper than Manson. Cooper has been on nearly every Dunn release and he's the focus of Dunn's next major documentary, so I'd bet that episode will be focused around him.


With those two being the main options, it'd damn better be. It'd also be kinda cool to see a note on WASP, even if they were only "shocking" on their first three albums...

Author:  Hellrisen [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I could also see bands like GWAR and, dare I say, ICP being among the bands mentioned in the shock rock episode.

Author:  MortalScum [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

DemonHellSpawn wrote:
MortalScum wrote:
Since when the hell did these become metal genres? I can understand the dumbasses at VH1 thinking that nu metal and some shock rock is metal, but grunge? I've never met anyone who thought Nirvana and Stone Temple Pilots were metal bands. Hell most of the other shows on VH1 say that grunge killed metal in the 90's.


Alice in Chains and Soundgarden are on the archives. And Nirvana's debut was very sludgy and heavily influenced by Melvins.


I think you and the dude above you sort of misunderstood my post. I meant that ACCORDING TO VH1
grunge killed metal. I know that it didn't really kill metal, I'm not that dumb.

Concerning your post, I haven't heard Nirvana's debut so I guess that would be my mistake (anyway knowing VH1 they'll probably only talk about Nevermind). I am aware that AiC and Soundgarden are both on the archives but those were only 2 bands out of the entire grunge movement, definitely not enough to classify it as a metal genre. Also I think that the "metalness" of those two bands is debatable, more so with Soundgarden.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just making sure that people understand what I said.

Author:  Tezcat [ Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

csehszlovakze wrote:
[off]
If anyone is interested in a black metal documentary, watch Until the Light Takes us.
[/off]


I would recommend "Murder Music: A History of Black Metal" which is also a great documentary about the history and current deveolpment of Black Metal. Very un-biased and objective.

Author:  Sandblasted [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Personally I think he should just done a Stoner/Doom episode and mention how the "metallic" grunge bands like AIC SG and the Melvins sort of put into the forefront since a lot of those old doom bands were influences/peers of those bands (I've seen pics of Chris Cornell wearing a St Vitus shirt FFS!).

Author:  Tezcat [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Sandblasted wrote:
Personally I think he should just done a Stoner/Doom episode and mention how the "metallic" grunge bands like AIC SG and the Melvins sort of put into the forefront since a lot of those old doom bands were influences/peers of those bands (I've seen pics of Chris Cornell wearing a St Vitus shirt FFS!).

Not only that. Also, back in, say, 1991, SG were reckoned as one of what was called "70's early Sabbathesque revival" pioneers by the mainstream media (Metal Hammer). Others called it "alternative metal" including Faith No More, Primus and some other bands under that moniker. Who knows, perhaps he will surprise us all with many a stoner band in that grunge episode...

Dunn talks about 26 subgenres. Wondering if this 11 episode series will be the only season, cause not all his 26 subdivisions are covered.

Author:  p0wnn00b [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

MortalScum wrote:
I think you and the dude above you sort of misunderstood my post. I meant that ACCORDING TO VH1
grunge killed metal. I know that it didn't really kill metal, I'm not that dumb.

Concerning your post, I haven't heard Nirvana's debut so I guess that would be my mistake (anyway knowing VH1 they'll probably only talk about Nevermind). I am aware that AiC and Soundgarden are both on the archives but those were only 2 bands out of the entire grunge movement, definitely not enough to classify it as a metal genre. Also I think that the "metalness" of those two bands is debatable, more so with Soundgarden.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, just making sure that people understand what I said.


Some people consider The Melvins Grunge and Tad, who are not well known, have some pretty heavy shit.

Bleach was a very heavy album in terms of Nirvana's style, and I even remember reading Cobain complaining about people mislabeling Nirvana as a metal band during the late '80s. It's strange because I'm pretty sure Cobain cited Celtic Frost and Black Sabbath as influences for the debut.

Author:  Ritual_Suicide [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

"Iron Maiden, Motorhead, Saxon, Raven and Def Leppard produce uncompromising metal music."

A synopsis of tonights NWOBHM episode.

Author:  Tezcat [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

p0wnn00b wrote:
Bleach was a very heavy album in terms of Nirvana's style, and I even remember reading Cobain complaining about people mislabeling Nirvana as a metal band during the late '80s. It's strange because I'm pretty sure Cobain cited Celtic Frost and Black Sabbath as influences for the debut.

...and Dave Grohl was friends with Lee Dorrian when he still was in Napalm Death, was also a fan of the band back then and was into Celtic Frost too.

Author:  PhilosophicalFrog [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

....so?

Author:  TheOldOne [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
....so?


It apparently gives him "metal street cred".

Author:  Wolfchrist [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Sam Dunn is a tool. I didn't even realize until I read earlier in this thread that Dunn actually put Sodom in his DM list on his stupid "Tree of Metal", what a complete moron. The thing is, a show made for Vh1 is just never going to be able to capture metal history in it's entirety, and it's stupid to even attempt it. If Dunnce really wanted to make a legit Doc, he should just do it on his own, so he wouldn't have to worry about network suit and ties demanding certain things be in or out due to ratings.

Author:  DemonHellSpawn [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Grunge was a made up term to sell bands anyway. It fit Nirvana well which is why it stuck, but the bands that I would rather apply the term to are Flipper, Killdozer and Mudhoney as well as early Melvins. Heck, Eyehategod sounds more "grungy" than Nirvana as well.

The funny thing is that Nirvana were only really "grungy" on their first and third albums, with Nevermind being a clean pop punk sound. Alice in Chains was Alternative Metal that got grunge slapped on them because they were depressing and came from Seattle. And Soundgarden was more Hard Rock/Alt. Metal, and again, didn't sound particularly grungy.

I guess you could say that Grunge was more important for what it represented in the turnover of styles, rather than what it allegedly was supposed to be.

Author:  StevenWright [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

there's no such thing as alternative metal

Author:  Erisgaroth [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

^ I always view these bands as Nu Metal (in my opinion) I'm very intrigued to see these episodes, specially the Power Metal. And for curiosity, the Nu Metal episode also. I hope to see more bands apart from Korn, Limp Bizkit and Papa Roach.

Author:  Wolfchrist [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

I personally don't even understand why Grunge would even be a topic of an episode on this show. I mean to me Grunge is more or less an outcropping of punk at the end of the day, or at least that's what I think Cobain and company were inspired by in the early days, along with bands like Mudhoney, and the Melvins it's more punk than metal. Grunge is a term invented by record companies and the media to describe not only a trend in rock music at the time, but in fashion. I think it's fucking retarded that he would even cover it, if anything Grunge is the antithesis of metal. I'm not saying all bands labeled as grunge are terrible because I like quite a few of them, I'm just saying, as for this documentary, pointless.

Author:  Wolfchrist [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

Maybe he should cover Nickelback while he's at it, let us know how metal they are. Idiot.

Author:  Wolfchrist [ Sat Dec 10, 2011 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Metal Evolution with Sam Dunn...Thoughts so far?

What he should do is cover bands like Discharge, G.B.H. and Siege and talk about their influence on Grindcore, and Death metal instead of fucking around with media made fluff genres like grunge. I know, it's on Vh1, he can't, because the people who watch the network don't give a shit. They just want to continue worshipping at the altar of whatever the fuck the t.v. says is true when it comes to metal lineage. It's just frustrating.

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