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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1183
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:39 pm 
 

John McEntee got onto Sea of Tranquility to rank the Suffocation discog with the host. Found this in my feed and thought I'd bring it here. I love Suffocation but I can't think what an album ranking would look like outside of like the top 2.

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pressingtoplead13
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:05 pm
Posts: 499
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:22 pm 
 

What the hell? I couldnt disagree more with John Mcentee. He had Breeding and Effigy as the bottom 2? No way. I can definitely get on board with people not liking the sound of Breeding but how in gods name does anyone not think that Effigy has a terrific sound? Breeding IMO is their best in terms of the music and songs in general but I will admit that the production leaves alot to be desired. I just noticed that their ranking goes hand in hand nearly with the release date. I struggle to rank the top 2 because Breeding really is such a fantastic album but the lack of production probably bumps Effigy ahead. Pinnacle has As Grace Descends and the rerecording of Begining of Sorrow but other than those two tracks I feel its their weakest. Blood Oath still has Mike Smith so it sits above the 2 newest even though its not as good as the past albums. S/T is solid straight through. Souls To Deny is one of my favorite sounding albums production wise. I think the first 4 stand out over the last 4. They are all good, but the fall off came after Souls To Deny.


1. Effigy Of The Forgotten
2. Breeding The Spawn
3. Pierced From Within
4. Souls to Deny
5. Suffocation
6. Blood Oath
7. Of The Dark Light
8. Pinnacle of Bedlam

Last little note... I saw Frank's last show in Reading PA back in 2018, it was such an awesome moment to send him off like that!

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cultofkraken
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:18 am
Posts: 2495
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:56 pm 
 

Poor John!! Seemed like he was gonna faint getting so stressed out and defensive over his choices. I 100% disagree with his rankings but I’m with them on there’s no bad Suffocation so it’s all just personal preference.

Mine actually goes:

1. Pierced from Within
2. Effigy of the Forgotten
3. Souls to Deny
4. Self Titled
5. Breeding the Spawn
6. Pinnacle of Bedlam
7. Blood Oath
8. …Of the Dark Light

Heck that could change just because some I’ve listened to more than others over the years. I’ve been listen to Suffo for around 25 years so I’m always gonna have a soft spot for the earlier work.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:17 pm 
 

Honestly, ...of the Dark Light is near the top for me, probably in the top 3 with Effigy and Pierced. It's insanely heavy, the songs are very well written, the performances all sound inspired and hungry, it's everything a modern Suffocation album should sound like. It's most definitely the best of their post-reunion albums, that's for sure, and I personally put it on the level of their 90s stuff.
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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5750
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:20 pm 
 

I really can't get past the sound of Breeding. Yes the songs are good but it's horrible to listen to which is what we're here to do with music. My list would be:

Suffocation - Pierced From Within
Suffocation - Effigy of the Forgotten
Suffocation - Suffocation
Suffocation - Souls to Deny
Suffocation - …Of the Dark Light
Suffocation - Despise the Sun
Suffocation - Breeding the Spawn
Suffocation - Blood Oath
Suffocation - Pinnacle of Bedlam

Top 2 clear tops by a decent margin, then the next 4 are all quite close together, then another big drop and the last 3 are all around the same to me.
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Last edited by lord_ghengis on Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 741
PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:22 pm 
 

Effigy is always number one in my heart. Can't say the same for the rest of the discography though...
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1183
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:29 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
Honestly, ...of the Dark Light is near the top for me, probably in the top 3 with Effigy and Pierced. It's insanely heavy, the songs are very well written, the performances all sound inspired and hungry, it's everything a modern Suffocation album should sound like. It's most definitely the best of their post-reunion albums, that's for sure, and I personally put it on the level of their 90s stuff.


It's a damn good album. I'd probably rank it just after Souls to Deny though. But Pierced and Effigy are my obvious top 2. John's gripes with the early albums are all just based around the production being amateurish.
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1853
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:23 am 
 

The only absolutes for me are the top 3 and the last one, but they're all classics and worth listening to.

1. Pierced From Within
2. Souls to Deny
3. Effigy of the Forgotten
4. Suffocation
5. Breeding the Spawn
6. Blood Oath
7. ...Of the Dark Light
8. Pinnacle of Bedlam

If we were adding live albums in, Close of a Chapter would be right after Effigy for me.
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draconiondevil
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:21 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:36 pm 
 

I'm not surprised that John thinks the newer stuff is better. Most older guys who are in bands tend to think the newer stuff is better because they've seen the progression of the band.

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 1183
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:41 am 
 

Pete, the host, called Suffocation the AC/DC of death metal which at first I'd be like "watchu talkin bout??" but there is a very defined style and formula they play within that I'd see how that would make sense.
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Bands are do music way too close to others to get recognized as "X genre" bands are fucking mediocre. Do Metallica's riffs sound Kreator's riffs? no!

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joppek
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 am
Posts: 2003
Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:37 am 
 

draconiondevil wrote:
I'm not surprised that John thinks the newer stuff is better. Most older guys who are in bands tend to think the newer stuff is better because they've seen the progression of the band.


there's also the personal preference when it comes to production style, where the new albums sound distinctly modern

personally i think all suffocation is good, but effigy and pierced are in a league of their own
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Last edited by joppek on Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 9785
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:09 pm 
 

Metal_On_The_Ascendant wrote:
Subrick wrote:
Honestly, ...of the Dark Light is near the top for me, probably in the top 3 with Effigy and Pierced. It's insanely heavy, the songs are very well written, the performances all sound inspired and hungry, it's everything a modern Suffocation album should sound like. It's most definitely the best of their post-reunion albums, that's for sure, and I personally put it on the level of their 90s stuff.


It's a damn good album. I'd probably rank it just after Souls to Deny though. But Pierced and Effigy are my obvious top 2. John's gripes with the early albums are all just based around the production being amateurish.


The only album that could be an accurate statement towards is Breeding the Spawn. Effigy and Pierced are legendarily excellent sounding albums, and neither album would sound quite right with any other kind of production.
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HeavenDuff
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 2424
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:18 pm 
 

draconiondevil wrote:
I'm not surprised that John thinks the newer stuff is better. Most older guys who are in bands tend to think the newer stuff is better because they've seen the progression of the band.


I want to say this is true. But I also see a negative biais in this. A lot of the older bands that kept going saw a signficant drop in the quality of their music, including bands like Suffocation, Pestilence, Morbid Angel and to a lesser extent, Incantation. But from their perspective, they are "evolving", and musicians always believe that their newest material is their best. It makes sense in a way, because you can't be creative and make great music if you think the newer stuff you are making is worst than what you did before. They might also tend to look at the other bands who evolved in a similar way to also be releasing better music now than before.

So yeah, no. It makes absolutely zero fucking sense to put Effigy at the bottom of a ranking of Suffocation's albums. It is the most important, most relevant, most innovative, most genre defining album Suffocation ever released PERIOD.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 371
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:29 pm 
 

And in addition to implying that the more recent albums have better songwriting, he also seems to value a more modern production then what's found on those classic albums. Which, I assume, means he feels the same about 'Onward To Golgotha', which has one of the muddiest, murkiest, "crappiest" production jobs of all time. And I wouldn't change a thing about it.
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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
Posts: 1011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:46 pm 
 

Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
And in addition to implying that the more recent albums have better songwriting, he also seems to value a more modern production then what's found on those classic albums. Which, I assume, means he feels the same about 'Onward To Golgotha', which has one of the muddiest, murkiest, "crappiest" production jobs of all time. And I wouldn't change a thing about it.


I mean, if you think about it, John grew up on Metallica, Slayer, Sodom, Black Sabbath, Mercyful Fate, Black Flag, and other acts with reasonably clean productions, and early Incantation was definitely the product of a bunch of broke kids doing their best, but once they had the financial means to go for better productions, they started aiming to be more like their heroes.

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chuggingpus
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Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:56 am
Posts: 72
Location: Vatican City
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:21 am 
 

1. Pierced From Within
My favorite one. Song writing went up. Drumming technique was improved. This one made a much bigger impact on me than the debut and was a massive improvement over Breeding The Spawn.

2. Blood Oath
They knocked it out of the park late in the game. This was a great death metal release with less of the mosh/groove type parts the band relied on previously.

3. Souls To Deny
I thought this one was very tight and interesting. Not sure why it has so many folks saying it was a misstep.

4. Effigy Of The Forgotten
The drumming here was more Paul Mazurkiewicz Neanderthal blasting rather than Sandoval styled. As a drummer it just wasn’t my thing. But this was undeniable brutal and had many memorable parts.

5. Pinnacle Of Bedlam
This one gets slagged a lot as well. Nothing new going on but everything was well written and played.

6. Suffocation
Half of this album represents suffo doing what they do best. But the other half replies too heavy on groove and really bad lyrics.

7. Breeding The Spawn
Similar to debut but with bad production. Drumming style is still Neanderthal all the time.

8. Of Dark Light
In all fairness I still have to give this one more listens. The cringey groove part at the end of the first song tends to have me turning off the record before listening further.

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Gemini 7 Rising
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:08 am
Posts: 371
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:06 pm 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
And in addition to implying that the more recent albums have better songwriting, he also seems to value a more modern production then what's found on those classic albums. Which, I assume, means he feels the same about 'Onward To Golgotha', which has one of the muddiest, murkiest, "crappiest" production jobs of all time. And I wouldn't change a thing about it.


I mean, if you think about it, John grew up on Metallica, Slayer, Sodom, Black Sabbath, Mercyful Fate, Black Flag, and other acts with reasonably clean productions, and early Incantation was definitely the product of a bunch of broke kids doing their best, but once they had the financial means to go for better productions, they started aiming to be more like their heroes.


Yeah, you're probably right, and that might actually make a good thread: 'Unintentionally Bad Production Jobs'... I actually did a thread a year or two back called 'Bad Production... And You Wouldn't Change A Thing' with Suffocation's 'Breeding The Spawn' as one of my top contenders. Not that I mind them rerecording those tracks either, but when you first get into a record with "bad" or "flawed" production and it's the only way (or the original way) you discovered it, sometimes you don't want it "fixed", you accept it just as it is and that's part of its charm and what makes it stand out in its own way.

And again with 'Onward To Golgotha', the crappy murky sound is just so fitting for that album in a way, and there's nothing else like it. Not that I mind their better production jobs either as time went on, but a lot of modern productions seem so similar to everything else out there that little is groundbreakingly distinct anymore (production wise).
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metroplex
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Location: Peru
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:36 pm 
 

He ranked Immolation albums on that channel as well a few weeks ago.

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overtenmy
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:09 pm
Posts: 251
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:26 pm 
 

Frank Booth wrote:
Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
And in addition to implying that the more recent albums have better songwriting, he also seems to value a more modern production then what's found on those classic albums. Which, I assume, means he feels the same about 'Onward To Golgotha', which has one of the muddiest, murkiest, "crappiest" production jobs of all time. And I wouldn't change a thing about it.


I mean, if you think about it, John grew up on Metallica, Slayer, Sodom, Black Sabbath, Mercyful Fate, Black Flag, and other acts with reasonably clean productions, and early Incantation was definitely the product of a bunch of broke kids doing their best, but once they had the financial means to go for better productions, they started aiming to be more like their heroes.


It’s kind of interesting to think of how different death metal could be if bands like Suffocation and Incantation could have accomplished the cleaner production they wanted on their debuts. There might not be caverncore or all these Incantation clones. Or then again somebody else may have come along and developed the cavernous sound.

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steve1234
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:11 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:17 pm 
 

It really does seem strange to have someone think that the newer stuff is better to me. Those first three Suffocation albums have been blowing my mind since I first heard them 20 years ago. I like all their albums but I feel like the last two just don't offer anything ground breaking and the production is not what I look for in my death metal.
My list
Pierced from Within
Effigy
Souls to Deny
Breeding the Spawn (the songs are great but the production is lacking)
Blood Oath
Suffocation
In the Dark Light
Pinnacle of Bedlam

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Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 351
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:26 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Honestly, ...of the Dark Light is near the top for me, probably in the top 3 with Effigy and Pierced. It's insanely heavy, the songs are very well written, the performances all sound inspired and hungry, it's everything a modern Suffocation album should sound like. It's most definitely the best of their post-reunion albums, that's for sure, and I personally put it on the level of their 90s stuff.

I wouldn't go that far but I do think it's probably their best post-reunion album.

As far as I'm concerned, their first three records share the #1 spot. Breeding the Spawn in particular has some of their best songs-- I mean, even with that lackluster production, songs like Beginning of Sorrow and Ignorant Deprivation are too good to write off. Souls to Deny and Pinnacle of Bedlam are decent and the self-titled has its moments (Entrails of You and Bind Torture Kill); Blood Oath is the weakest of the bunch, I've never felt an urge to revisit it after hearing it the first few times.

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Frank Booth
Can Bench 450

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:29 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:34 pm 
 

overtenmy wrote:
Frank Booth wrote:
Gemini 7 Rising wrote:
And in addition to implying that the more recent albums have better songwriting, he also seems to value a more modern production then what's found on those classic albums. Which, I assume, means he feels the same about 'Onward To Golgotha', which has one of the muddiest, murkiest, "crappiest" production jobs of all time. And I wouldn't change a thing about it.


I mean, if you think about it, John grew up on Metallica, Slayer, Sodom, Black Sabbath, Mercyful Fate, Black Flag, and other acts with reasonably clean productions, and early Incantation was definitely the product of a bunch of broke kids doing their best, but once they had the financial means to go for better productions, they started aiming to be more like their heroes.


It’s kind of interesting to think of how different death metal could be if bands like Suffocation and Incantation could have accomplished the cleaner production they wanted on their debuts. There might not be caverncore or all these Incantation clones. Or then again somebody else may have come along and developed the cavernous sound.


Especially since it's clear that John has always wanted a cleaner sound - with MTON/UTTOA, the former was the album that the band clearly wanted to release, while Relapse clearly didn't think it was kvlt enough and basically forced them to put out the latter as the album they wanted. If Relapse had been able and willing to finance a visit to Morrisound back then, they 100% would have jumped at the chance.

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