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TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 1792
Location: the emerald forest
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:21 pm 
 

I read in an interview that Captain Rubin apparently sat the band down and played their first album for them. Tony said he understood the point - how would that album go down today? Apparently, the idea must have stuck.

That is when 13 died. Rubin's fault. Had they self-produced (like on The Devil You Know), there probably would have been less tee-heeing and buttfuckery.

They should have had DJ Premier do all the beats, Geez lay down the fatty bass and Ozzy duel with an all-star roster of only the illest. THEN THIS ALBUM WOULD HAVE MOVED SOME UNITS, BY GUM. But still, I can stomach Sabbath ripping themselves off more than I can tolerate Allison Chains doing the same.


Last edited by TheMizwaOfMuzzyTah on Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8018
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:25 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
everyone has the right to thrash it

:headbang:

Alright, I am not correcting that typo :lol: :metal:
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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:21 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
While I don't think the album deserves a 0%, I'm 100% agree with dronriot. 13 is a pain to listen. I said it before: the album is so dishonest, Iommi is so blatantly ripoffing himself that I the only thing I perceive from 13 is disappointment.

I agree the drums suck (just as they did on The Devil You Know. Seriously, what does the band have against GOOD drumming?) However, I think the top two criticisms (which have been quoted) are pretty, well, dumb. Dishonest is a very hallow word, and you're hating on Iommi coming up with riffs that sound like...Tony Iommi.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:23 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
13 is nothing but a reshashed, dishonest husk of an album, and as far as I'm concerned, it deserves to be treated as such.


I don't know if dishonest is the word, exactly. Rehashed, yeah, and certainly not very creative, but what do you think is really dishonest about it? It just sounds like an old band doing what they always did, only not nearly as well because they were consciously trying to copy their past.

Really what it comes down to is that 13 is the opposite of why Sabbath used to be good. They used to create music that broke boundaries and did whatever they wanted, and now they're just rehashing themselves and paying tribute to the glory days. Rubin's suggestion that they "listen to the debut and record whatever would've happened next" oddly enough was the worst possible idea, given what Sabbath's purpose and style actually was back then. It's completely antithetical to what Sabbath was. It's listenable enough, and some songs are pretty decent - I don't think they had any intentions other than jamming out a self-tribute album to try and close a chapter of their lives. But at the same time there wouldn't have been any difference if they didn't release it at all.
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MEGANICK89
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:15 pm
Posts: 94
Location: Cleveland, OH
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:48 pm 
 

The video to 'God Is Dead' has been released:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhhOU5FUPBE

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1758
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:02 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:

I'll check the audio interview, thanks, but man, the blatant proof of incapacity to understand music history that is this article's opening line caught me cold: "As the progenitors of hard rock". :ugh:

EDIT: Fuck this shit, that Jim whoever is fucking clueless. I thought it was just whoever posted this on Blabbermouth who made this utterly wrong statement, but no: it's also in the first line of the actual radio show/interview/whatever. Well, no need to listen to the rest. A guy who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about interviews a band who have said nothing but clueless bullshit prepared for them by Sharon's PR people for the past two years... Not a promise worth 22 minutes of my time.

MEGANICK89 wrote:
The video to 'God Is Dead' has been released: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhhOU5FUPBE

As hopelessly boring and creatively dry as the song. That's appropriate.
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:27 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:

I'll check the audio interview, thanks, but man, the blatant proof of incapacity to understand music history that is this article's opening line caught me cold: "As the progenitors of hard rock". :ugh:

EDIT: Fuck this shit, that Jim whoever is fucking clueless. I thought it was just whoever posted this on Blabbermouth who made this utterly wrong statement, but no: it's also in the first line of the actual radio show/interview/whatever. Well, no need to listen to the rest. A guy who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about interviews a band who have said nothing but clueless bullshit prepared for them by Sharon's PR people for the past two years... Not a promise worth 22 minutes of my time.

:lol:

I'll agree with you there. I like the guy's comedy and other radio work. He's brutally funny, but yes he's pretty dick-ridingly loyal to Ozzy.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:37 pm 
 

This album is boring.

Ozzy can't sing anymore. Ozzy can barely even speak, he sounds like he's having trouble pronouncing words through the whole album, and there's are some unpleasant qualities that come up due to his vocals being processed/autotuned.

The guitars sound terrible - they are completely crushed in the mix, compressed to hell, so there's an extra layer of distortion and Iommi's playing barely comes out of it. It sounds unnatural, there's almost no phrasing, it's buried in the thickness of the mix. The riffs are alright at points but they're dulled by the wall of noise they're forced into.

The songs are way too long and incredibly boring, the lead single being the epitome of that. When they do jam, it seems like they get lost, like at the end of "Zeigeist".

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Oddeye
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:24 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:37 pm 
 

I've listened to 13 twice now and it's not nearly as bad as some people here make it out to be. Also I think Ozzy's voice sounds pretty good.

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:45 pm 
 

MEGANICK89 wrote:
The video to 'God Is Dead' has been released:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhhOU5FUPBE


That sucked, for the most part. A bad video can make a song seem a lot worse than it is sometimes, and that made the song seem helplessly underwhelming (and I like God Is Dead?). The part at the end with the war footage syncing up with the riffs was cool, but other than that it was largely quite lame. Also, why does it look so shitty? This is Black fucking Sabbath, you're telling me they couldnt afford better production values than that?
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King_Hands
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 4:46 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:05 pm 
 

I like it. At this point in their career, I honestly don't expect them to change everything up. I just want it to sound like their old stuff, and I want the songs to be good. As far as I'm concerned it's a success in that regard. It is formulaic, but I really do enjoy the songs too much to care.

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Somnia1
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:39 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:14 pm 
 

I really like the jammy feel of Damaged Soul actually. But the rest of the album is a bit unremarkable for reasons already given.

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LivingDoorway
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:40 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:33 pm 
 

Just finished my first listen of the album, and meh, it was alright. Most of the songs could have been cut down by at least a minute, and they're trying a little too hard to sound like in the first few albums, but the riffs are reasonably solid and Ozzy doesn't sound horrendous.

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Thumbman
The Shellfish

Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:04 pm 
 

LivingDoorway wrote:
Just finished my first listen of the album, and meh, it was alright.

Pretty much how I feel. It's fine, nothing amazing. There's lots of current doom bands I'd rather listen to. The production is too modern bordering on sterile, but really I think we were all expecting that. If Black Sabbath as an entire band broke up instead of Dio joining then I'd probably be livid about this, but I just don't really care. It's passable, Ozzy's not that great, whatever. Won't get heavy rotation, but some of the songs/riffs are solid enough. They really should have gone with another producer, though.
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Winterfell
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:27 am
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Location: Montreal
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:37 pm 
 

My first impression, which is entirely subject to change, was that it wasn't the trainwreck I expected but it wasn't anything to write home about either. Ozzy's vocals are generally pretty bad. He has a few good lines but overall his performance just served to remind me what a bummer it is that Dio's dead. There were a few pretty tasty riffs but everything just sounded like a retread of classic Sabbath. Most of the songs were too long, but it didn't bother me all that much. I see a lot of complaining about Brad Wilk's performance...I didn't think it was all that bad, but certainly a bit flat. The production was definitely way too modern and heavy. All that said...I can't hate it. I can't even particularly dislike it. It's alright.

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Garyuu
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:23 pm 
 

The album got kind of boring while listening to it, but I would still give it a 70%. I don't think Ozzy sounds as bad as people are making him out to be. I never thought he was a great singer anyway, but his voice always fit well with the music. I kind of hope this is their last album, as it sounds like it is. The storm and bells at the end make it sound like they are ending with how they are started which would be pretty cool.

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Subrick
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:30 pm 
 

I really liked it. Yes, it's formulaic, and yes, it does call upon the first two or three Sabbath albums quite heavily, but the songs are memorable and just plain fun to listen to. Ozzy I don't think sounds atrocious, nor is Brad Wilk's drumming this affront to all things percussion like some people have claimed. Tony and Geezer still have a lot of energy in their performances, and if this really is the last Black Sabbath album, then it was a fine send off.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:03 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
13 is nothing but a reshashed, dishonest husk of an album, and as far as I'm concerned, it deserves to be treated as such.


I don't know if dishonest is the word, exactly. Rehashed, yeah, and certainly not very creative, but what do you think is really dishonest about it? It just sounds like an old band doing what they always did, only not nearly as well because they were consciously trying to copy their past.

Really what it comes down to is that 13 is the opposite of why Sabbath used to be good. They used to create music that broke boundaries and did whatever they wanted, and now they're just rehashing themselves and paying tribute to the glory days. Rubin's suggestion that they "listen to the debut and record whatever would've happened next" oddly enough was the worst possible idea, given what Sabbath's purpose and style actually was back then. It's completely antithetical to what Sabbath was. It's listenable enough, and some songs are pretty decent - I don't think they had any intentions other than jamming out a self-tribute album to try and close a chapter of their lives. But at the same time there wouldn't have been any difference if they didn't release it at all.

Emp, I find this album to be very dishonest precisely because of the reasons you mentioned. It simply tries to fit into a certain niche rather than be its own thing, and Sabbath has always been about being its own thing. And yeah, I know that claiming that a band is about this or that isn't very logical, but Sabbath..... Sabbath is special, and you know that. The reason I think 13 sucks is the same reason I think Forbidden sucks; there is no fire. There is no conviction. It's just a pathetic attempt to recapture something that can't be reproduced under modern conditions, and not only that, but there isn't even true effort to be found behind it.

Still, I don't put the blame on Iommi, or at least not for the most part (some riffs are great, but riffs alone can't save an album). I put the blame on 1) Ozzy's voice being totally fucked and 2) Rubin. Working with him was not a good idea at all.

Gonna give The Devil You Know a listen or ten now. I need some catharsis.
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The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:29 pm 
 

I gave "God is Dead?" a listen on YouTube earlier.

It was...ehhhhh. Wilk's drumming was mostly a non-entity, though the tom-heavy parts near the end were vaguely interesting. The drum production is fucking terrible though. I actually really like Wilk's work in RATM, but if you compare that to Audioslave it's clear he just has no fucking clue how to play along to hard rock (or metal, apparently) that's devoid of other influences, like he's afraid to be as interesting as he was in RATM because he's playing in a pre-defined style or something.

Geezer I had no problem with. The bass tone sounded alright and there were some memorable licks.

Ozzy...ugh. No fire, no real sneer, no range, missed notes, clear studio wizardry...just a terrible performance all around. It's certainly not bedroom-level bad or anything, but just really bad for a professional band.

And then the riffs...there were actually a few I found enjoyable, but not "wow!" enjoyable. Unfortunately the guitar tone is over-compressed and the lead tone especially sounded like total shit, which surprises me because normally lead guitar tone is nowhere near as important as the rhythm tone for me. Some of the other bits, like the boring noodling during the verse sections, just sounded barely-written.

In general the whole thing felt like there were a couple old Iommi riffs he had laying around and they tried to stretch them into an 8+ minute song that Ozzy and Rick Rubin shat all over. If the whole album was like this I'd probably give it a 60% or so, but most people have said this is definitely the highlight of the album.
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MEGANICK89
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:15 pm
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Location: Cleveland, OH
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:31 am 
 

After first listen, I dug it. Ozzy isn't terrible, but...makes me yearn for Dio. I find that two of the bonus tracks, 'Methademic' and 'Pariah' are too good to be bonus tracks. Some of the riffs do breed familiarity, but I can't help rocking to them.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:00 am 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
If the whole album was like this I'd probably give it a 60% or so, but most people have said this is definitely the highlight of the album.


Maybe most people here but you should give it a listen for yourself. I enjoy "God Is Dead?" but it's not among my favorite tracks. Maybe you won't find anything else to your liking but there are several songs I really like and the more I listen, the more I dig. There's a bit of everything for every Sabbath fans.

I'm not really surprised by the reactions here because the circle jerk was always going to be in full swing but the 0% review is of course totally retarded and that took me by surprise.

But whatever. Outside of here, reviews are overwhelmingly on the positive side and deservingly so. Sabbath were never going to fully recapture their old glory days but they come as close as they could possibly have more than three decades later. This is Sabbath's best album since Dehumanizer IMO and while the production is not perfect, Rubin did more good than bad on this one and successfully allowed the band to show glimpse of the old magic. Tons of people are going to enjoy this successful comeback I predict. And while I doubt it will happen, I wouldn't mind another album in a couple of years.

With each listen, 13 is solidifying its place on my list of favorite albums of the year.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:12 am 
 

I only listened once, but there's no way in hell it's better than TDYK or Cross Purposes. Dehumanizer is pretty overrated anyway.

Quote:
Emp, I find this album to be very dishonest precisely because of the reasons you mentioned. It simply tries to fit into a certain niche rather than be its own thing, and Sabbath has always been about being its own thing. And yeah, I know that claiming that a band is about this or that isn't very logical, but Sabbath..... Sabbath is special, and you know that. The reason I think 13 sucks is the same reason I think Forbidden sucks; there is no fire. There is no conviction. It's just a pathetic attempt to recapture something that can't be reproduced under modern conditions, and not only that, but there isn't even true effort to be found behind it.

Still, I don't put the blame on Iommi, or at least not for the most part (some riffs are great, but riffs alone can't save an album). I put the blame on 1) Ozzy's voice being totally fucked and 2) Rubin. Working with him was not a good idea at all.


Yeah, I guess what I said basically does constitute dishonesty. Oh well.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:21 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I only listened once, but there's no way in hell it's better than TDYK or Cross Purposes.

Most definitely, aye.
Empyreal also wrote:
Dehumanizer is pretty overrated anyway.

*record scratch*

I think that the word you're looking for is in fact "underrated", my good man.
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The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:22 am 
 

It ain't bad, but I never remember a thing about it once it's over. TDYK is what Dehumanizer should have been like for me. I'd probably give Dehumanizer a score in the 70s or low 80s or so, it's a pretty good album. Just not nearly as good as everyone seems to say it is.
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Riffs
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:37 am 
 

Cross Purposes is a turd, so I'm not really going to address that.

TDYK was an OK comeback from a kickass lineup but is pretty monotonous and lacks solid song crafting. It does sound monstrously heavy, however. I wish Dehumanizer had benefited from that kind of production.

But 13? 13 is the album I have been waiting for from Sabbath for over 20 years. I just wish Bill Ward had been part of this.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:43 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
It ain't bad, but I never remember a thing about it once it's over. TDYK is what Dehumanizer should have been like for me. I'd probably give Dehumanizer a score in the 70s or low 80s or so, it's a pretty good album. Just not nearly as good as everyone seems to say it is.

Nah, I think it's pretty memorable overall. I, Too Late, Master of Insanity, TV Crimes, Letters From Earth, Computer God and After All (The Dead) are freakin' awesome, and the rest of the album is quite solid, if not as great as the aforementioned songs.
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droneriot wrote:
The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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Riffs
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:48 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:49 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
It ain't bad, but I never remember a thing about it once it's over. TDYK is what Dehumanizer should have been like for me. I'd probably give Dehumanizer a score in the 70s or low 80s or so, it's a pretty good album. Just not nearly as good as everyone seems to say it is.

Nah, I think it's pretty memorable overall. I, Too Late, Master of Insanity, TV Crimes, Letters From Earth, Computer God and After All (The Dead) are freakin' awesome, and the rest of the album is quite solid, if not as great as the aforementioned songs.


I always disliked TV crimes from that album. Possibly my pick for worse Dio-era song. And of course, Sabbath had to choose that one as the single. What a horrendous track, IMO! :(

Other than that, the album is awesome and was a beacon of light back in 1992, as metal was overtaken by shitty bands and established bands were declining.
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Noble Beast's debut album is way beyond MOST of what Priest did in the 80s.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:53 am 
 

Riffs wrote:
I always disliked TV crimes from that album. Possibly my pick for worse Dio-era song. And of course, Sabbath had to choose that one as the single. What a horrendous track, IMO! :(

Other than that, the album is awesome and was a beacon of light back in 1992, as metal was overtaken by shitty bands and established bands were declining.


Jeez, I think TV Crimes is one of Sabbath's best up-tempo tunes. :|

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:04 am 
 

Yeah, I'm with DoomMetalAlchemist; TV Crimes is nothing but a cool little up-tempo track with one of Dio's most angry and bitter vocal performances. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever, Riffs.
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droneriot wrote:
The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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doomster999
Keeper of the Dreary Realm

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:21 am 
 

Whosoever compared 13 to The Devil You Know or Cross Purposes is completely mental.
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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
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Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:17 am 
 

Yeah, "TV Crimes" is actually my favorite song on 'Dehumanizer'; not just a fine little up-tempo track or whatever: it's impossibly catchy and punchy, Dio-Sabbath exploring some themes from thrash metal shortly after said genre had been prononced clinically dead (coincidence though it might have been). Awesome song, and certainly instantly memorable. So are "I" and "Computer God" (although the latter's drum intro is guilty of disappointing me to no end when they started playing it live, as I was so sure they were going to play "Headless Cross" instead). Some of the slower songs are very good too, especially "After All (The Dead)", but those three are the highlights for me. I'd totally get spinning the album and not remembering much of it afterwards if it weren't for these three songs, they stand out big time.

I guess I sort of see where Riffs is coming from about '13' (hopefully everybody sees where the riffs on '13' came from by now haha), taking into account the fact that, for reasons we better not waste time arguing over yet again, he remains unappreciative of the Martin-fronted albums and TDYK. In this context, since it's the first time Sabbath releases something he doesn't openly dislike in 21 years, the 'Death Magnetic' syndrome fully works its "magic" (as in magic tricks, not magic force) on him. I get it, but I also suspect a few dozen listens from now, just hearing the stripped-down, lifeless, impossibly repetitive and derivative intro to "God is Dead?" should see the "for fuck's sake, Sabbath is This?" realization catching up with him. All in due time, gentlemen. Of course, you can greatly speed up this process by simply going through the following, very short playlist: "War Pigs", "Falling off the Edge of the World", "God is Dead?". Similar 2-3 songs long, delusion-shattering, bubble-bursting playlists available for basically every single track off of '13'. :D
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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:53 am 
 

SO...how can you say you didn't have Death Magnetic Syndrome for The Devil You Know?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:59 am 
 

Just finished my first listen. It's not bad. I would give it a 70 or 75 if forced to rate it (although that of course will probably change one way or the other given more listens).

I want to listen again, so that's a good thing I guess.

Ozzy is not that great, not a surprise. Was better than I was expecting after reading this thread for the last couple of days though. Maybe the extreme, utterly ridiculously negativity actually boosted what I thought of the album on first listen, it's WAY better than what many are saying.

The riffs are good, and Geezer sounds really good. Really glad Geezer's parts are so audible. He's always been the underrated crucial piece for me. Sabbath can be fine with different drummers and singers, but there isn't a great Sabbath record that Geezer isn't on as far as I'm concerned.

As for Wilk, I didn't really notice him that much. I have the feeling he was hired to "keep the fucking beat and keep out of the way" for the most part, but that's just a guess. His tom stuff at the end of Dear Father made me pay attention, but that didn't happen anywhere else on my first listen.

The pacing of the album is a bit of an issue, the first two songs are too similar to be where they are on the track listing. I might have put Loner between them, but I'm just rambling at this point as I've only listened once.

If this is the last one, that would be fine. Thank god it's not Forbidden.

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:31 am 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
SO...how can you say you didn't have Death Magnetic Syndrome for The Devil You Know?

Because that album is genuinely good, not to mention still appreciated by lots of people after all this time?
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droneriot wrote:
The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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Exigence
Age: 29 (Wait, what?!)

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:42 pm
Posts: 982
Location: New Orleans
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:49 am 
 

I just don't have the attention span to handle back to back fucking 10 minute songs. Tried to listen to it at the gym last week and never made it to Loner. Changed to a different album.

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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:42 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
SO...how can you say you didn't have Death Magnetic Syndrome for The Devil You Know?

Because that album is genuinely good, not to mention still appreciated by lots of people after all this time?

That's a lousy argument. There are plenty of people that said Death Magnetic was a genuinely good album, there are plenty of people that said The Devil You Know was a genuinely good album, and the latest Black Sabbath album will be the same.
I finally listened to the album. I think it's genuinely good, and I think lots of appreciate it for years to come. Does Death Magnetic Syndrome only exist for this album and not The Devil You Know? I don't think so.
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
Also hopefully they take it as a sign they're not meant to make more albums.

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 6814
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:07 pm 
 

I was under the impression that "Death Magnetic syndrome" refers to a band releasing an album in a style that the fans have whined for for ages, resulting in a sub par album that only the people who desperately wanted the band to play in that style again enjoy.
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Hehe, foreskins.

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1758
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:19 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
SO...how can you say you didn't have Death Magnetic Syndrome for The Devil You Know?

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Xlxlx wrote:
Because that album is genuinely good, not to mention still appreciated by lots of people after all this time?

That's a lousy argument. There are plenty of people that said Death Magnetic was a genuinely good album, there are plenty of people that said The Devil You Know was a genuinely good album, and the latest Black Sabbath album will be the same.
I finally listened to the album. I think it's genuinely good, and I think lots of appreciate it for years to come. Does Death Magnetic Syndrome only exist for this album and not The Devil You Know? I don't think so.

You're missing the point of what is generally implied by Death Magnetic Syndrome. Xlxlx's reply is essentially correct regarding TDYK, but it only makes sense once the DM Syndrome is clarified. Crick's description is right on the money for that. Combine the two, and there you have it: TDYK was late-period Dio-Sabbath doing its thing, competently and genuinely so, and it's a pretty good album in its own right; it even had an impact opposite to the Death Magnetic Syndrome, as TDYK was better than the average expectation for it overall, and its quality took many by surprise.

Bear in mind that the context is key: when TDYK came out, Dio's band had been releasing mostly uninspired, going-through-the-motions studio material and subpar, albeit self-gratifying, live albums based on its past glories (with RJD himself showing his age in a not so good way in the live stuff), while Sabbath had been inactive, paralysed and sabotaged by legal bullshit for a long time, and the last things we had heard from them before that were the tired, ill-advised, lame-ass 'Forbidden' and the horrid "Psycho Man" (and the other bonus track that went along with it). It was a fantastic surprise that a genuine Sabbath line-up stood up and its pride was hurt enough and it had enough of a fire left that it gave us a true piece of Black Sabbath. Even the fact that they had to cave in to the Osbournes and release it under a fake name possibly reinforced the passion about this album. And yes, over four years after its release, it stands the test of time fairly well, and even enjoyed a new wave of praise since Dio's passing.

'13', at the exact opposite end of the coin, is the Osbournes' crowing achievement concluding their successful sabotage of Sabbath's career over the past 15 years or so. It's an album that came through controversial, questionable ethics, dubious, forced, sometimes outright silly methods and under extremely difficult circumstances for the band's mainman battling cancer, and it was ridiculously hyped up by obvious Osbournes-approved revisionist propangada for about a year as the ultimate "come back" of the real Sabbath that would be right in line with the band of the 70s yadda yadda yadda. But it turned out to be a poor man's homage to basically Sabbath's first two albums, lukewarm as fuck, in autopilot in terms of performances (except for Ozzy in AI mode instead) and ripe with blatant, subpar rip-offs of just about any famous early Sabbath riff. See, it's not too dissimilar with 'Death Magnetic' in that DM was announced as The Big Event that would bring Metallica back to 'Master of Puppets' levels of greatness and perhaps even surpass it, and it turned out to be a laughably overproduced, utterly unconvincing, clumsily hacked up together parody of it instead (if even that). And just like most people genuinely into good old classic 80s Metallica turned away from DM fairly quickly, most people genuinely into good old classic 70s Sabbath will never ever say "hey! let's put on "Loner", alright now!"; they'll say "hey! let's put on "Lo—fuck that, I meant "NIB" and "Sweet Leaf", ALRIGHT NOW!!!" :metal: :nods:
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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 551
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:42 pm 
 

Dishonest?, they just sound like themselves, or what they were in the begining. You may accuse them of being formulaic, or old enough to retire, uninspired if you wish, but not dishonest, IMHO!!! hahaha
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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 6814
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:29 pm 
 

It's dishonest in the sense that, yes, it sounds like something they did before, but they haven't been writing albums like Master of Reality for years and years. Its a deliberate throwback.
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failsafeman wrote:
Don't talk to Crick.
The_Beast_In_Black wrote:
Hehe, foreskins.

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