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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:12 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
Wasn't your point that No Jeff = No Slayer? Yeah, I got that.

And that by excluding Hanneman from the band, they excluded themselves from Slayer.

How so? If Jeff the sole song-writer? Was he the only one that found the band all those years ago?
Quit being irrational. You're judging them on music that hasn't been released yet. Hating on Kerry King is good fun, but you're being ridiculous.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:34 pm 
 

When you have the main songwriter from the classic era and the songwriter from the 'modern' one, usually one would support the one who has written the best tracks and, if it applies, the one who has written most of the material in general terms, which I think in both cases is Jeff.

It's like if Iron Maiden suddendly fire Harris; the rest has contributed but Harris is the heart of the band.

I'm with legend here: No Hanneman = No Slayer.
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dontlivefastjustdie
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:17 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
I'm with legend here: No Hanneman = No Slayer.
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Sonofabitch Thirdgeneration
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:17 pm 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
It's like if Iron Maiden suddendly fire Harris; the rest has contributed but Harris is the heart of the band.

It's absolutely nothing like that. Harris is the sole founder of Maiden whereas Kerry & Jeff TOGETHER founded Slayer.

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LegendMaker
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:24 am
Posts: 1714
Location: France
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:21 pm 
 

Thanks for the support, guys. At least there's a handful of us.

@MrMcThrasher II: I'm afraid you have yet to get my point. I'm not judging the Jeff-less incarnation of Slayer in terms of quality (let's be realistic, here: there certainly is little to no hopes for a truly great Slayer album being ever released again, even with Jeff). So your "judging on songs not yet released" point is irrelevant to me. I'm merely assessing the fact that King (and Araya) have no legitimacy being Slayer without Hanneman. I also don't think post-Hansen "Helloween" is entitled to the name, let alone stuff like post-Beehler Exciter or post-Tolkki Stratovarius, if that helps you seeing where I'm coming from.

I'm having an even harder time understanding the act-of-founding fetishists, here. Plenty of bands were "founded" by a couple of dirtbags whose sole merit was coming up with the name (if that) and hiring the guys who later gave the band's name its worth. Once and for all, consider Show no Mercy's credits. Sorry, but Hanneman's overwhelmingly dominating role as the driving force and definitive genius of the band is no less obvious than Harris' in Maiden.
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Arghusbelial
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:39 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:52 pm 
 

Slayer will continue without Dave and Jeff forever.
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MARSDUDE
Shitposter

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:22 pm 
 

Yes, we know that much-- but will it be good, and will it be Slayer?

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aaronmb666
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:23 pm 
 

Arghusbelial wrote:
Slayer will continue without Dave and Jeff forever.


Eh, if the new album is just the two of them, it'll flop. Shitty King filler songs, then he'll blame piracy, since no one bought it. Tour another year or two, then they'll announce that theyre retiring. I used to have all their albums, but I ended up deleting all ones after Divine Intervention.

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MrMcThrasher II
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:35 am 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
Thanks for the support, guys. At least there's a handful of us.

@MrMcThrasher II: I'm afraid you have yet to get my point. I'm not judging the Jeff-less incarnation of Slayer in terms of quality (let's be realistic, here: there certainly is little to no hopes for a truly great Slayer album being ever released again, even with Jeff). So your "judging on songs not yet released" point is irrelevant to me. I'm merely assessing the fact that King (and Araya) have no legitimacy being Slayer without Hanneman. I also don't think post-Hansen "Helloween" is entitled to the name, let alone stuff like post-Beehler Exciter or post-Tolkki Stratovarius, if that helps you seeing where I'm coming from.

I'm having an even harder time understanding the act-of-founding fetishists, here. Plenty of bands were "founded" by a couple of dirtbags whose sole merit was coming up with the name (if that) and hiring the guys who later gave the band's name its worth. Once and for all, consider Show no Mercy's credits. Sorry, but Hanneman's overwhelmingly dominating role as the driving force and definitive genius of the band is no less obvious than Harris' in Maiden.

With your logic the new Queensryche without Taint isn't Queensryche.
1. Hanneman is NOT the sole founder.
2. There are many a band without half their original members. Think about Alice In Chains. They have only two original members left, but you're not hating on them currently, are you? I honestly think you just have an unjustifiable grudge against King.
3. If you look at Show No Mercy's credits, you'll see they (King and Hanneman) wrote a majority together. Consider also that King wrote Evil Has No Boundaries and the title-track by himself. Those are both tracks that Slayer fans remember.
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
Also hopefully they take it as a sign they're not meant to make more albums.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:37 am 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
2. There are many a band without half their original members. Think about Alice In Chains. They have only two original members left, but you're not hating on them currently, are you?

That's because the other two original members are fucking dead. :lol: Also, Cantrell wrote the vast majority of the music.
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MrMcThrasher II
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Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:50 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
2. There are many a band without half their original members. Think about Alice In Chains. They have only two original members left, but you're not hating on them currently, are you?

That's because the other two original members are fucking dead. :lol: Also, Cantrell wrote the vast majority of the music.

Haha, true, but my point still makes sense, since Mike Starr left before dying.
You also mention Cantrell writing a majority of the music. That is true. Both Hanneman and King write the music; it's not just one or the other. They BOTH contribute, which is something LegendMaker fails to grasp.
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TheDefiniteArticle wrote:
Also hopefully they take it as a sign they're not meant to make more albums.

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Porman
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:35 am 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
Eh, if the new album is just the two of them, it'll flop. Shitty King filler songs, then he'll blame piracy, since no one bought it. Tour another year or two, then they'll announce that theyre retiring. I used to have all their albums, but I ended up deleting all ones after Divine Intervention.


Haha, that cracked me up! I do hope that you own the ones prior to Divine Intervention since they aren't "shitty King filler songs".
Deleting all ones...

Haha.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:26 am 
 

@MrMcThrasher II: Never mind, it seems we won't understand one another, here (let alone agree). We are each talking about different things, and I can see that, but the misunderstanding goes on despite my efforts to clear it up. Possibly yours as well, I'm not so sure, you do keep on repeating "not the sole founder" although I told you like five times this wasn't relevant to my point, and my examples were apparently so explicit, you come up with QueensRÿche without Tate as something similar, when the logical closest thing is QueensRÿche without DeGarmo, which is indeed why current QR is not legitimate in my eyes. You also obviously haven't read my previous post, notably the one(s) on Show no Mercy. Never mind. Agree to disagree or, rather, understand to not understand.

@The "pirate" above: Yeah, that cracked me up too. Used to own their albums, but deleted them? With what, an antimatter gun? :lol:
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:36 am 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
Arghusbelial wrote:
Slayer will continue without Dave and Jeff forever.


Eh, if the new album is just the two of them, it'll flop. Shitty King filler songs, then he'll blame piracy, since no one bought it. Tour another year or two, then they'll announce that theyre retiring. I used to have all their albums, but I ended up deleting all ones after Divine Intervention.


There I was thinking you bought them.
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matras
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:08 am 
 

To be fair, he could've bought digital copies (but not very likely).

Deleting pirated music; now that's a statement. Not.

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aaronmb666
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:37 am
Posts: 2653
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:44 am 
 

Ive bought every Slayer album and still have some of the newer ones. Ive got an mp3 player and deleted the newer albums, since I dont even listen to them. I used to think Diabolus was a great album, but I think everything about it now just sucks.

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MARSDUDE
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:17 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:49 am 
 

I take the opposite stance-- I used to think that one sucked, now I enjoy it. It`s Slayer`s experimental album for me.

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Peroy
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:44 am
Posts: 360
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:26 pm 
 

aaronmb666 wrote:
I used to think Diabolus was a great album, but I think everything about it now just sucks.


In three years you'll like it again...

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TadGhostal
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 952
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:28 pm 
 

Porman wrote:
Slayer was founded by both Hanneman and King, so both have equal rights to continue if the other one quits, right? It's not like the story with Sepultura where not even one member is an original one.


Most likely, whoever quits would give up their rights or be bought out. Despite all the speculation of what a Jeff-less Slayer would sound like, it rdoesn't appear likely that they are going to fire Hanneman, anyway. It seems like it's up to Jeff to make the move to return.

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ld50
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Posts: 507
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:11 am 
 

Exodus react to rumours they're about to split up over Gary Holt's involvement with Slayer

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LegendMaker
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Location: France
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:32 am 
 

Thanks for the link. I also watched that Holt interview while I was at it. Not any real news, the way he attempts to prove Exodus supposedly isn't taking a back seat to his assignment in Slayer is still the same: he's writing some riffs in hotel rooms when he gets the chance, in between shows. Not exactly what I'd call working to his full capacity on Exodus, and that's to be expected, frankly.

What bothers me the most with this is how little Holt seems to know on how and what Hanneman is actually doing. In the previous interview a few days ago, Holt was actually mentioning keeping Jeff's seat warm while he recovers, as if he still believed the guy wasn't fully healed by now. There were reports and even a couple of photos of Hanneman months ago, allegedly in perfectly good shape already. And Kerry didn't even mention Jeff's health in the last interview he gave where he openly talked about going on without him; the reason given was not "he's still recovering from the spider-bite necrosis thingie thing", it was "he's in LA and we're no longer in speaking terms and I don't seem to care". Big difference. Just how long can the "he's still recovering" bullshit cover story stick, and how many people will keep buying it, exactly?
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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:12 am 
 

Maybe Jeff just doesn't want to come back to Slayer. There have been rumors to that effect for some time as well as that there is rift between Kerry and Jeff because Jeff hasn't made much of effort to get back into touring shape. I mean, everyone seems to be speculating on the idea that Kerry would push Jeff out because Kerry's an asshole or whatever (and I have no doubt that he is). No one seems to be considering that Jeff might just not want to do it anymore. I mean, obviously the spider bite was real. We've all seen the pictures of Jeff's arm. But maybe the guy has just decided he enjoys staying off the road. It's not like he needs the money.

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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:27 am 
 

That's entirely plausible, yeah. But I'd rather hear it from him (or at least read it). Jeff deciding to quit, possibly even giving Kerry his blessing to carry on without him, would be a wildly different picture than Kerry shutting him out without giving him a choice or even a say. So far, what little clues we even have tend to indicate a situation closer to the latter scenario rather than the former, but if Jeff finally speaks up, a new light might be shed on all this. Still, there's no doubt that Lombardo was kicked out by Kerry King, and purely for a "contractual disagreement" story, so I'm not too confident there is still a heart beating behind this Slayer franchise.
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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:46 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
That's entirely plausible, yeah. But I'd rather hear it from him (or at least read it). Jeff deciding to quit, possibly even giving Kerry his blessing to carry on without him, would be a wildly different picture than Kerry shutting him out without giving him a choice or even a say. So far, what little clues we even have tend to indicate a situation closer to the latter scenario rather than the former, but if Jeff finally speaks up, a new light might be shed on all this. Still, there's no doubt that Lombardo was kicked out by Kerry King, and purely for a "contractual disagreement" story, so I'm not too confident there is still a heart beating behind this Slayer franchise.


Well, sure, we'd like to hear Jeff say ANYTHING at this point. I don't think there is any real evidence that Kerry is pushing Jeff out or that Jeff wants to leave. It's all speculation, rumor, and conspiracy theory. I think too many people have taken the Lombardo situation, or more specifically, Dave's comments on how things went down, and started to apply it to Jeff.

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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 317
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:58 pm 
 

Jeff not wanting to come seems to be harsh reality here unlike what everyone assumes (i.e. he can't or Kerry won't let him or some such thing). While it would be nice for Kerry or Tom to call him up and ask how he's doing and if he's up for composing/recording/touring, in the end it's up Jeff to show up and reclaim his spot. But from the complete silence, I would infer that he's done with Slayer and moved on, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong but his lack of communication isn't very encouraging. We all assume that being a metal star is the greatest thing on the planet and that life would be a dream come true. But I'm sure it's like everything else, it gets old at some point, if you let it. We also assume that he's just itching to come back but something won't allow him. Maybe it's like changing jobs/careers. You think that you're going to keep in touch with the folks from your old job but in reality you just don't, you're gone and that's it. After all these years I'm pretty sure it won't be all that easy for him to just come back and pretend he never left. You're just in a different place mentally.

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Riffs
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Location: Montréal, Québec
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:04 am 
 

I've said it already and I'll say it again: The spider bite story is bullshit at this point.

What is going on is pretty obvious. If nobody has heard from Jeff Hanneman at this point, it's certainly not because nobody tried for an interview.

It is simply because Jeff Hanneman prefers not to (or cannot) talk about Slayer. And the reason for this is certainly legal. There may be legal proceedings underway, or Jeff may have taken a settlement which prevents him from talking about Slayer for a certain amount of time.

This was obvious months ago and is even more obvious in the last few weeks so I'm surprised so many people are still taking Kerry King's vague explanations remotely seriously at this point.
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MARSDUDE
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:21 am 
 

A thought just came to me--- what if Jeff is working on his punk project again? He was working on it years ago, and Rick Rubin told him not to pursue it further, as that is the type of shit that breaks bands up (he said).

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Ancient_Sorrow
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:10 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:16 am 
 

The ultimate and ridiculous twist in the story would be if Hanneman stood-in for Holt on the Exodus tour whilst Holt was busy with his personal stuff, or touring with Slayer.

I think the moral of the story is that I need to stop viewing this in the way one might view a pro-wrestling story-line.

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Awblaster
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:07 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:06 pm 
 

Ancient_Sorrow wrote:
The ultimate and ridiculous twist in the story would be if Hanneman stood-in for Holt on the Exodus tour whilst Holt was busy with his personal stuff, or touring with Slayer.

I think the moral of the story is that I need to stop viewing this in the way one might view a pro-wrestling story-line.


And then Slayer can do a nu-metal album with John Cena rapping on it!
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Ancient_Sorrow
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:10 pm 
 

Quote:
And then Slayer can do a nu-metal album with John Cena rapping on it!


I would conclude that God very much does hate us all, in such an instance.

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Ribos
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 pm 
 

For what it's worth, Exodus pulled out of MDF this year, citing "various personal reasons." Make of that what you will, but news that Holt's sticking around Slayer happening just before Exodus has "personal" issues that stop them from playing the biggest metal fest in the country sounds a little suspicious.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:49 pm 
 

Exodus already debunked that rumor. They said they pulled out of MDF because Gary's father suddenly got very sick and he's taking care of him.
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lachygonzalez
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Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:22 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:56 pm 
 

I met Dave Lombardo in November when he perfrmoed with his band Philm. I remember talking to him about Slayer and he said things weren't looking so well. I figured it was because Jeff was out bbut now I know why. :((

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Ribos
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:27 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
Exodus already debunked that rumor. They said they pulled out of MDF because Gary's father suddenly got very sick and he's taking care of him.
I'd be more inclined to believe that if they didn't just play a set in Chicago tonight with Gary. But hey, I don't have all the information, so I could still be wrong.
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Conservationism
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:58 am 
 

Kveldulfr wrote:
I'm with legend here: No Hanneman = No Slayer.


Very true. All the members contributed, but Hanneman was the whiz kid behind it all. Sounds like he got a really vicious infection from that spider bite and we're lucky to have him still with us. If after that he decides that touring is too much, that's understandable. He might want to just live out his life and have a good time of it, instead of doing something that his heart hasn't been in for years.
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ahr888
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:44 pm 
 

Riffs wrote:
It is simply because Jeff Hanneman prefers not to (or cannot) talk about Slayer. And the reason for this is certainly legal. There may be legal proceedings underway, or Jeff may have taken a settlement which prevents him from talking about Slayer for a certain amount of time.

This was obvious months ago and is even more obvious in the last few weeks so I'm surprised so many people are still taking Kerry King's vague explanations remotely seriously at this point.


Problem is, how come no one has heard about this? A Slayer-Hanneman lawsuit would certainly be big news in the industry. You can't keep lawsuits secret, they are public record. I tried searching various SoCal courts, but they charge now to even search. It would certainly be interesting if some intrepid reporter showed up at Jeff's door and reported what happened, but there isn't a whole lot of serious journalism in the music industry looks like it. The silence with all this is just bizarre. Heck, secret government programs are less secret than whatever is going on with Jeff. Does this guy have no friends who could anonymously spill the beans or what?

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Sonofabitch Thirdgeneration
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:11 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
2. There are many a band without half their original members. Think about Alice In Chains. They have only two original members left, but you're not hating on them currently, are you?

That's because the other two original members are fucking dead. :lol: Also, Cantrell wrote the vast majority of the music.

So necrophilia justifies the lack of original members in Alice In Chains

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Riffs
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:39 am 
 

ahr888 wrote:
Riffs wrote:
It is simply because Jeff Hanneman prefers not to (or cannot) talk about Slayer. And the reason for this is certainly legal. There may be legal proceedings underway, or Jeff may have taken a settlement which prevents him from talking about Slayer for a certain amount of time.

This was obvious months ago and is even more obvious in the last few weeks so I'm surprised so many people are still taking Kerry King's vague explanations remotely seriously at this point.


Problem is, how come no one has heard about this? A Slayer-Hanneman lawsuit would certainly be big news in the industry. You can't keep lawsuits secret, they are public record. I tried searching various SoCal courts, but they charge now to even search. It would certainly be interesting if some intrepid reporter showed up at Jeff's door and reported what happened, but there isn't a whole lot of serious journalism in the music industry looks like it.


There is indeed, not a lot of serious journalism in metal. It's mostly metal fans getting to talk to their heroes and asking easy questions with no formal training. They also have limited means and time.

But anyways, there doesn't need to be a lawsuit involved, or any court for that matter, in order to legally gag someone. It can be as simple as Jeff signing a document entitling him to money and preventing him from mentioning Slayer for X amount of time.
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FasterDisaster
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:46 pm 
 

Am I not crazy that I've seen Jeff Hanneman playing with Slayer after the skin grafts? I mean, if he's already played since surgery, unless he still needs recoup time, I don't see how he still wouldn't be able to play. I'm also not sure where he actually played at. A Google search turns up some images of his arm in clear view, and you can see the skin grafts.

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TadGhostal
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:31 pm 
 

FasterDisaster wrote:
Am I not crazy that I've seen Jeff Hanneman playing with Slayer after the skin grafts? I mean, if he's already played since surgery, unless he still needs recoup time, I don't see how he still wouldn't be able to play. I'm also not sure where he actually played at. A Google search turns up some images of his arm in clear view, and you can see the skin grafts.


You're not crazy. The spider bite and resulting injury was obviously not bullshit. Now, is that why Jeff still hasn't come back? I don't know. No one here knows. All the the theories as to why Jeff is not back in Slayer, or why he hasn't done interviews, are just theories.

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