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Veracs
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:21 pm 
 

The more I think about bands such as Inquisition, Absu, Cryptopsy, Suffocation, and Immolation is in relation to incredible songwriting, pushing the limits of their music, and classic albums is how different the drummers are in relation to even their compatriots. While some of their success can be attributed to being some of the first bands in their respective styles, their styles of drumming have influenced many drummers yet still remain uniquely their own. What is your opinion/theories as to why these drummers have contributed to the success of their groups, or what are some drummers I neglected to list that have made their bands powerhouses of the music. How have their performances changed in relation to the songwriting process in newer albums, and has it been in relation to the quality of music a positive or negative outcome?
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Scourge441
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:56 pm 
 

Immolation are on their fourth drummer, so I'm not sure they really help your point. However, I absolutely agree that Mike Smith and Flo Mournier were extremely important to Suffocation and Cryptopsy (although Flo seemed to be the driving force behind The Unspoken King), and in the case of Absu, Proscriptor seems to be the primary driver of the group anyway. I never really paid attention to Inquisition's drumming, though.

As far as drummers that helped define their band's sound, I'd put Martin Lopez in the discussion. His drumming is a huge part of the classic Opeth sound. Danny Walker is a big part of Intronaut as well.

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:39 pm 
 

The guy from Disharmonic Orchestra I just felt like mentioning because he's so good but I don't even know his name :ugh:
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Nochielo
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:10 pm 
 

Let's remember that percussion is the backbone of music in general, so I think the drummers' input (assuming he/she is any good) is essential in defining a sound for a band. Whether this is positive or negative remains up for debate. Despite Mournier's role in The Unspoken King remains being far from pleasant, Proscriptor's supervision of Absu has helped it maintain great quality throughout the band's existence. Except for Inquisition (because I know nothing about them) none of these drummers actually writes songs for their respective bands, I think that's also worth mentioning.

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katatonia47
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:11 pm 
 

I don't care about the hate regarding the band, but Liturgy have some outstanding drumming. Whether you like it or not, it is pretty damn impressive.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:23 pm 
 

I've never been impressed by Liturgy's drumming. It's not bad, but it's nowhere near as impressive as people say it is.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:34 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
I've never been impressed by Liturgy's drumming. It's not bad, but it's nowhere near as impressive as people say it is.


I've only heard Aesthetica but I don't see how the drumming is anything groundbreaking. Good for sure, but I don't hear this amazing burst beat idea that supposedly "ebbs and flows like the rhythms of an ecosystem" or whatever. The drumming is really the only part I like about that record, though.
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DrummingEdge133
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:28 am 
 

I think you may have forgotten two of the most obvious examples that would help carry your point across: Chris Reifert and Donald Tardy. Both of these drummers have a unique recognizable style and are a huge part of the sound of their respective bands. I mean, can anyone honestly even imagine Mental Funeral without Chris Reifert's rotten decaying drum tone and lopsided, disfigured playing, which I'd say only he would have come up with....? Of course not!

As for Donald Tardy, he is a bit more traditional, but there are certain songs that he really shines through on and shows his unique take on death metal drumming, giving some of the songs a very primitive, almost tribal atmosphere. A few obvious example would be "Blood To Give," "Slow Death" and "Final Thoughts." His tom-heavy approach definitely give extra unique character to these songs and make them all the more hooky, catchy and headbang inducing. :headbang:

Neither of these two drummers are over-the-top technical, but that doesn't really matter generally when considering "uniqueness." I don't think you could find any drummers that are more unique than these two. None come to mind for me anyway.
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Last edited by DrummingEdge133 on Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MGSX666
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:32 am 
 

Gotta agree with Chris Reifert but this thread needs more Defeated Sanity. Lille Gruber is an incredible player and is the driving force behind the band.
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Cendelence
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:15 am 
 

I think Mgla definitely benefit a lot from having a great drummer, and you know it's not just how great the production is on the drums that makes it sound that way when they are just as incredible live.

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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:28 am 
 

Chris Reifert/King Fowley aye, definitely unique! I really like the drum/vocals combo.
There must be loads of other drummers who do that? But I can only think of those two off the top of my head.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:50 am 
 

Jamie St. Merat from Ulcerate. His incredibly precise, fill laden drumming makes ample use of pretty much his whole kit (with lots of theavy tom use) with incredible precision. He drives the entire band and pushes them from atmospheric dissonant riffs meandering to all
out assault of doom and beauty.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:53 am 
 

Sean Reinert and Cynic.

/thread
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IdiotFlesh
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:12 am 
 

This theory doesn't explain the succes behind Metallica unfortunately :roll:

MGSX666 wrote:
Gotta agree with Chris Reifert but this thread needs more Defeated Sanity. Lille Gruber is an incredible player and is the driving force behind the band.


I agree one hundred percent. Lille is what keeps me coming back to Defeated Sanity's collective work. His creative drumming is really what puts them on top for me. Luckily they also have a guitarist and bassist with nasty chops, but the drumming is what sticks out to me.

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caspian
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:31 am 
 

IdiotFlesh wrote:
This theory doesn't explain the succes behind Metallica unfortunately :roll:


Yeah it does. No one would ever call Ulrich technical but he's a huge part of the band's sound. His more relaxed, less technical approach gives way more room for the guitars to breathe. Consistent good feel + general arranging skills = an underrated drummer, albeit not someone you'd want to jam jazz fusion with
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:47 am 
 

It doesn't explain the success of Judas Priest, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse or hundreds of other famous bands with merely good drummers (i.e. not exceptional).
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dreadmeat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:51 am 
 

Shane Embury! ha ha ha :lol:

I think Tommy Lee/Motley Crue deserve to be in here with his 360 drum kit, that made him/them more well known for that alone.
They had a competition I think where a fan got strapped to the thing and did a loop live, how cool would that be.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:53 am 
 

I think Mario Duplantier is the most important part of Gojira, he's the band basically. A beast.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:59 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
It doesn't explain the success of Judas Priest


Hopefully by that you just mean Dave Holland.
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katatonia47
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:34 am 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Jamie St. Merat from Ulcerate. His incredibly precise, fill laden drumming makes ample use of pretty much his whole kit (with lots of theavy tom use) with incredible precision. He drives the entire band and pushes them from atmospheric dissonant riffs meandering to all
out assault of doom and beauty.

I agree with all of this.
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Pfuntner
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:40 am 
 

Although I know they aren't that popular here, much of the early interest in Mastodon could probably be attributed to Brann Dailor's nonstop fill approach to writing drum parts. A more groove oriented drummer might have served their earlier songs a bit better from a conventional songwriting point of view, but Dailor's playing gave the band a talking point for a long time.
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caspian
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:17 am 
 

Pfuntner wrote:
Although I know they aren't that popular here, much of the early interest in Mastodon could probably be attributed to Brann Dailor's nonstop fill approach to writing drum parts. A more groove oriented drummer might have served their earlier songs a bit better from a conventional songwriting point of view, but Dailor's playing gave the band a talking point for a long time.


Yeah, he's very distinct.. mastodon would be incredibly different with a normal drummer for sure. From a personal note he's extremely influential in my own drumming :)
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:26 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
Ilwhyan wrote:
It doesn't explain the success of Judas Priest


Hopefully by that you just mean Dave Holland.

I don't. None of their several drummers in the 70s were particularly exceptional. Certainly, I wasn't there to hear it in the 70s when it was all new and mind-blowing, but compare any of them to Bill Ward, for the sake of comparison to an actually unique drummer. They were all competent; Holland, on the other hand, was completely lame.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:28 am 
 

What about Scott Travis? His drumming was a big part of Painkiller for at least me.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:30 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
What about Scott Travis? His drumming was a big part of Painkiller for at least me.

Admittedly, but his drumming didn't establish Priest's success by any stretch of imagination. What is this thread about, again?
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:34 am 
 

Still, Painkiller revitalized Priest after a couple lame albums.
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joppek
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:58 am 
 

i'm surprised to see no mention of sandoval...

also, i'd say nile wouldn't be as big as they are if it weren't for kollias
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elf48687789
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:48 pm 
 

I think drummers have contributed a lot to metal, I mean it wouldn't be metal without the double bass drumming, would it?

On the other hand they are often in the background and not talked about, except when they suck bad and make the whole band sound like crap (and even then, the other members will be blamed for sucking as well because the playing sound off).

I'll say Ken Owen from Carcass put the band ahead with his drumming (I don't consider Swansong a real album by them though, there's so much wrong with that album on every level, they weren't even all in the studio when that was recorded).

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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:19 pm 
 

elf48687789 wrote:
it wouldn't be metal without the double bass drumming

Are you out of your mind?
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hagagaga
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:25 pm 
 

I'm not a particularly big death metal fan (mostly folk metal for me), but I do enjoy Suffoction. I'm pretty sure that I'd like them a lot less if I wasn't a drummer (not that I'm a particularly good one). Mike Smith is awesome.

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hagagaga
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:29 pm 
 

elf48687789 wrote:
I think drummers have contributed a lot to metal, I mean it wouldn't be metal without the double bass drumming, would it?

One of my favorite bands is a band called Black Sabbath. I don't think most of their songs have double bass. Are they heavy metal?

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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:30 pm 
 

Immolation definitely fits the thread like the OP said. They're on their fourth drummer, yes, but the drumming has ALWAYS been spectacularly weird. I love it.
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:49 pm 
 

The question is very hard, especially taking into account that most of the best metal bands not only have good/decent drummers, but usually there's at least 1 outstanding guitarist who provides the riffs and usually writes most of the songs.

I guess the most obvious examples are Flo Mounier, Mike Smith, George Kollias and Tomas Haake.

About drummers who were involved in masterpieces that made X band greater, I would say Grim. His powerful and relentless drumming is a huge part on what Gorgoroth's UTSOH is and also he played in the first 3 Borknagar albums, which at least the first 2 are classics.

Now we can count Steve Asheim, which not only drums faster in every album, but also he writes the songs and he alone revived Deicide with Stench (and to lesser extent, To Hell with God which is a very fine album IMO).

Regarding Immolation, even if I like most of their discography, I think both Alex Hernandez and Steve Shalaty made their respective albums true monsters. Alex' drumming in Close to a World Below and Unholy Cult is massive, so is Shalaty especially in Providence.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:59 pm 
 

Hernandez was a very unique drummer and definitely contributed to Immolation's sound. Most noticeably, his drumming really makes Father You're Not a Father the song it is.
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Acrobat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:22 pm 
 

elf48687789 wrote:
I think drummers have contributed a lot to metal, I mean it wouldn't be metal without the double bass drumming, would it?


Tell that to Nicko McBrain. :)
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Frank Booth
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:33 pm 
 

Dave McGraw really helped Cattle Decapitation advance to the next level by way of being able to play on the same level as Josh and Troy, something that Michael Laughlin couldn't quite manage. Dude's got an instantly recognizable Mike Smith-on-steroids playing style, as well as an ability to adapt his drumming to suit the feel of the song. Sure, he can pull off balls-out technicality when the situation calls for it, but he's just as capable of pulling off relatively simple fare while still sneaking in plenty of little flourishes.

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Tron_79
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:13 pm 
 

I think Steve Flynn is a big part of Atheists jazzy sound. From what I've read, the bass and the drums are written first with the guitars written after so obviously his ideas along with bass drives the songs
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vengefulgoat
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:23 pm 
 

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:55 pm 
 

Nicko McBrain might be the established drummer with Iron Maiden today, but Clive Burr certainly was instrumental on the bands early works. His work on the first three albums is unique and brilliant. Nicko is fantastic in his own right, certainly a bigger character than Clive ever was, but his drumming is less technical and simpler.

And for those of you slamming Priest, what's wrong with Les Binks?
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Thiestru
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:00 pm 
 

I always liked Henry Ranta's drumming when he was with Soilwork. He added a lot of energy to the songs, and kept things lively and interesting. Dirk Verbeuren is a great drummer, but he just doesn't have the feel that Ranta had.

Jason Rullo's drumming is a big part of Symphony X's sound, I think. His performance in 'The Death of Balance / Lacrymosa' in particular blows me away.

And I've got to say, Steve Zimmerman is one of the most underrated drummers of all time. His work on the early Fates Warning albums is so incredibly tasteful, and I wish more progressive drummers would take after him. Guys like Mike Portnoy come across as self-serving, but Steve Zimmerman played just what was needed to make the songs work, and I love it.

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