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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:06 pm 
 

I've read somewhere that Hansi can't maintain that vocal intensity thorough so many gigs anymore - a pity I guess, but from what I've sampled here and there his voice is still recognizable at least, even if he has to restrain more nowadays.

I actually think that the title track of Follow the Blind is the worst track on the album; just a bit too plodding. ''Banish From Sanctuary'' (that intro riff!), ''Hall of the King'', ''Fast to Madness'' and ''beyond the Ice'' are absolutely fantastic though.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:47 pm 
 

He absolutely needs to hold back live or else he would blow out his voice five songs in. I guess he started taking the whole voice training and maintenance seriously arounf the time of Nightfall and ANATO, when he had troubles as well.

I'm complaining about his live performance (and his approach in the albums the past 15+ years) lightly, I understand he needs to keep his voice working for a whole concert, let alone tour, so doing the epic screaming shit is absolutely out of the question. He can still do it 100% though. He usually saves some epic screaming for certain songs and parts of songs and it's exactly like on the albums. But unfortunately, the truth is that a lot of the songs' highlights in the BG catalogue are his screaming vocal lines. If you hear I'm Alive without the "I left the shadows faaaar behind meee" in THAT style, the song really, really loses. Another example is Welcome to Dying, when he sings the chorus line one octave lower. Makes a lot of difference for the worst.

PS: You forgot Valhalla!:P
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:11 pm 
 

I think there's a difference between a vocalist not being able to pull off certain (high) notes shortly after recording in a live environment and a singer who starts to struggle years from the recording. I don't know what's the case with Hansi (my guess is the latter) but ehh, yeah.

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:31 pm 
 

Well, the way he produces the epic screaming is not really the best way to treat your throat, it will eventually lead to the point of being barely able to speak. He struggled some nights, even in his prime. Then he really had serious problems in the late 90s, early 00s, so he took it seriously since then, by consulting coaches and a doctor and since then he sings way more cleanly, he has effectively stopped doing that rasp (that AWESOME rasp) since then. Like I said, he can still do it but if he did, he wouldn't be able to complete a concert (his throat would be fucked half an hour in) and definitely not a whole tour.
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Vic's Dungeon - Remember the Fallen:
Jeff Hanneman: Evil Notes and Sad Riffs
Chuck Schuldiner (Death)
Paul Baloff (Exodus)
Holy Terror and Keith Deen
Roger Patterson (Atheist)

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Jophelerx
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:36 pm 
 

The impression I got is that the 2 years of constant touring following ANATO, plus the 2-day BG festival, just tired Hansi's voice the hell out. He didn't really maintain that super high, aggressive shriek at that point, but he did still have quite an impressive range and did not take notes down octaves as often. It does make a lot of the songs weaker (though "Welcome to Dying" isn't one of them, in my opinion; chorus sounds just as good an octave lower to me). Plus he is 50 years old now, so that may be taking its toll, although he's never seemed like the drinking/smoking/drugs type.

I agree that the title track is the worst one on Follow the Blind, I also usually skip Valhalla because every single live version (that's not shite quality) is better than the studio version (i.e. none of Kai Hansen's crystal clear, non-aggressive vocal performance, though I don't mind it as much on Lost in the Twilight Hall). I still think Follow the Blind might be my least favorite Blind Guardian album, but not by much, and I still like it quite a bit. I'd give it around an 80 or so. Nightfall and Beyond the Red Mirror and Twist in the Myth aren't that far above it for me though. Anyway, all decent quality live versions I've heard of the first two albums are better than the studio efforts. Tokyo Tales is my favorite Blind Guardian album. :D
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colin040
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:42 pm 
 

I forgot to mention it earlier, but I can imagine most singers can be quite careless about the way they write vocal lines when they're young.

Having that said, I recently stumbled upon a live performance of ''License to Kill'' by Jag Panzer and Conklin still sounds ABSOLUTELY FUCKING INCREDIBLE. How the hell does he do that?!

Just hear that!

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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:46 pm 
 

Harry Conklin is no mere mortal man, but a god among heavy metal vocalists.
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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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Location: Greece
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:48 pm 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
Harry Conklin is no mere mortal man, but a god among heavy metal vocalists.


Indeed. The man is a phenomenon.

I fucking missed that gig in Athens. :(
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Paul Baloff (Exodus)
Holy Terror and Keith Deen
Roger Patterson (Atheist)

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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:09 pm 
 

Some people protect their voice and make a life of it. Brian Ross is another example of someone who arguably sounds better now than they did in 83/84. Conklin sounds AMAZING on the modern Satan's Host stuff. I would give anything for him to dump out of that garbage riffing and get with a genius.
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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:38 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
I would give anything for him to dump out of that garbage riffing and get with a genius.


That's kind of the way I've always felt about him, save for a few JP songs. Genius songwriters are underrated really, and don't grow on trees.

I always think it would've been great to hear him in IM instead of Blaze but I'm sure having an American vocalist would've hurt them in Europe.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:54 pm 
 

I love running off with fantasy land ideas like this. I try to think of something semi-realistic. Like what's Edward Pursino doing these days? He and Conklin could team up and potentially create something astounding.

Ample Destruction is perfection, as far as I'm concerned. Would have been thrilled with another album or two in that general vein (though obviously with some growth/exploration).
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:16 pm 
 

Virgin Sails > Ample Destruction

:D

I do of course like Ample Destruction quite a bit though, probably my second favorite album with Conklin (By the Hands of the Devil comes pretty close).

I was about to say I'd listen to anything with Harry Conklin on vox, but then I remembered how utterly dull a lot of the post-reunion Jag Panzer albums are. Thane to the Throne and Mechanized Warfare are the only ones I can remember at all. The other three, I guess (I never bothered to listen to The Scourge of the Light and haven't heard the recent one either) are just completely forgettable for me. Give me Satan's Host over that lukewarm garbage any day of the week!
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:19 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
Ample Destruction is perfection, as far as I'm concerned. Would have been thrilled with another album or two in that general vein (though obviously with some growth/exploration).

Well you've heard the Shadow Thief demo from '86, right? It's basically exactly that.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:24 pm 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
Virgin Sails > Ample Destruction

:D


What heresy is this?

Virgin Sails I always thought was the weakest new Satan's Host album. I haven't really felt like listening to their stuff in general in a while though - kind of wore off I guess.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:28 pm 
 

By the Hands > Pre-Dating God I > Pre-Dating God II > Virgin Sails.

And that is 100% verifiable fact.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:34 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Well you've heard the Shadow Thief demo from '86, right? It's basically exactly that.


"Shadow Thief" is their best song IMHO.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:48 pm 
 

failsafeman wrote:
Jonpo wrote:
Ample Destruction is perfection, as far as I'm concerned. Would have been thrilled with another album or two in that general vein (though obviously with some growth/exploration).

Well you've heard the Shadow Thief demo from '86, right? It's basically exactly that.



Fuuuuuuu-
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:06 pm 
 

I'm aware I'm the only one around here who is that enamored with Virgin Sails, which I still am after 4 years. Just iconic, energetic, diverse stuff for me and still one of my favorite USPM albums, but I won't pretend there's anyone other than me saying that.

Shadow Thief is great, yeah, as is Chain of Command, where the song also appears. Bob Parduba is no Harry Conklin, but he's still a great vocalist in his own right. Strong, proud, and manly.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:15 pm 
 

The song itself definitely rules. I was surprised the full thing isn't on YT. Will look into the reissue for sure. Thanks for the heads up!
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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:46 pm 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
I'm aware I'm the only one around here who is that enamored with Virgin Sails, which I still am after 4 years. Just iconic, energetic, diverse stuff for me and still one of my favorite USPM albums, but I won't pretend there's anyone other than me saying that.

No Virgin Sails rules. Honestly I like it even more than Ample Destruction, but while I like AD I never found it to be more than a B+ album with an excellent singer.
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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:47 pm 
 

Yeah, wtf? Virgin Sails is awesome and "Island of the Giant Ants" is stronger than any track on By the Hands of the Devil.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:08 am 
 

I'll still defend the two recent JP releases as full sounding and mature. Obviously not their best output but in terms of how they have developed as a band, still pretty damn admirable.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:31 am 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
Virgin Sails > Ample Destruction


failsafeman wrote:
while I like AD I never found it to be more than a B+ album with an excellent singer.


Jophelerx wrote:
I remembered how utterly dull a lot of the post-reunion Jag Panzer albums are


:???: :( :grumble: :fuck:

Image

Seriously though, The Fourth Judgement is fucking amazing! How can you not like a song like Black? or Judgement Day? And the Shadow Thief found on TFJ is by far its best version. To me Jag Panzer is one of the most consistent heavy metal bands out there. As for Ample Destruction it's one of the exemplars of US Metal, pure steel. I would defend that album even if it only contained the Crucifix.
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Vic's Dungeon - Remember the Fallen:
Jeff Hanneman: Evil Notes and Sad Riffs
Chuck Schuldiner (Death)
Paul Baloff (Exodus)
Holy Terror and Keith Deen
Roger Patterson (Atheist)

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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:38 am 
 

Also, am I the only one who loves Titan Force way more than Satan's Host (and I really like Satan's Host)?

Toll of Pain - On my knees for METAL
Lord of Desire - INSANE performance by Harry and genius (Jim!) riffing!
Dreamscape Prog/power beauty
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Vic's Dungeon - Remember the Fallen:
Jeff Hanneman: Evil Notes and Sad Riffs
Chuck Schuldiner (Death)
Paul Baloff (Exodus)
Holy Terror and Keith Deen
Roger Patterson (Atheist)

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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:49 am 
 

"The Crucifix" is easily my least favorite song on Ample Destruction. The only one that I always skip, it puts me to sleep.

I definitely like Titan Force as well, but certainly not "way more than Satan's Host." The first album is very solid and I've heard their recent compilation as well that I like, but all of it is really B-grade stuff to me except for the fantastic song "Blaze of Glory."

Also cool to see there's a couple of others who love Virgin Sails as much as I do! (Failsafeman being somewhat unsurprising since our tastes in heavy/power metal seem to overlap more than 90% of the time.)

I might give The Fourth Judgement another shot, it's been a couple of years since I heard it, I forgot there was a version of Shadow Thief on there. It does seem to get most of the praise among post-reunion Jag Panzer albums although I'm certain I found it underwhelming the few times I've played it in the past. Who knows, I'm almost always willing to give things another chance if I haven't heard them terribly often.
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Rocka_Rollas
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:24 pm 
 

Starblind released their new music video. Best tights 2017!

I handled the recording/production stage of this album btw


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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:30 pm 
 

Dude! The Crucifix? Really? I don't know how anyone can keep his shit when Harry goes "BLEED INTO THE WORLD OF SIIIIIIIIIN!" and that's just the beginning... When the main section kicks in ("AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!") with that scream, that galloping riff and that solo, holy shit, that is like one of the most epic metal defining moments in metal!

[sorry, I always get carried away by that song, it's by far my favorite on the album! :-P ]

AND it features a tolling bell, which everyone knows is a sure sign of greatness.
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Vic's Dungeon - Remember the Fallen:
Jeff Hanneman: Evil Notes and Sad Riffs
Chuck Schuldiner (Death)
Paul Baloff (Exodus)
Holy Terror and Keith Deen
Roger Patterson (Atheist)

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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:35 pm 
 

By the way, someone made a video for American Storm, which is one of the best songs on one of the best heavy metal albums of the 00s. And it's appropriately a collection of Sly, Arnie and Charles Bronson killing people.

Make sure you check it out, especially if like every sane person with impeccable taste you worship Future World's riff (The Pretty Maids one, not Helloween's!)
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Vic's Dungeon - Remember the Fallen:
Jeff Hanneman: Evil Notes and Sad Riffs
Chuck Schuldiner (Death)
Paul Baloff (Exodus)
Holy Terror and Keith Deen
Roger Patterson (Atheist)

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kytokinesis
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:41 pm 
 

On Satan's Host, pretty much everything from 999 to the present has been really solid, but I'm not able to pick one that stands out as my favorite or much better than the others.

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Temple Of Blood
Old Man Yells at Cloud

Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:16 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:53 pm 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Make sure you check it out, especially if like every sane person with impeccable taste you worship Future World's riff (The Pretty Maids one, not Helloween's!)


I prefer Screamer's. :)

BTW, I just got the reissued Screamer albums in the mail. Good stuff but I wish they were remixed and/or remastered.
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:00 pm 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Dude! The Crucifix? Really? I don't know how anyone can keep his shit when Harry goes "BLEED INTO THE WORLD OF SIIIIIIIIIN!" and that's just the beginning... When the main section kicks in ("AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!") with that scream, that galloping riff and that solo, holy shit, that is like one of the most epic metal defining moments in metal!

[sorry, I always get carried away by that song, it's by far my favorite on the album! :-P ]

AND it features a tolling bell, which everyone knows is a sure sign of greatness.


Yeah it still doesn't do anything for me, I've heard it at least 25 or 30 times and that remains to be the case, I find the riffs extremely tame and the vocal lines very stale, it's a very plodding, by-the-numbers anthem to my ears, I don't much care for it for the same reason I don't much care for Heavy Load or some of Maiden's longer and more repetitive numbers like Seventh Son. I mean the guitar wig out at the second half is pretty neat but the first half can't hold my interest for 5 seconds. Conklin sounds good as usual but even he can't save it for me.

Listened to the links you posted for The Fourth Judgement, "Black" is the same case with "The Crucifix" where it comes off as plodding and bland to me until the solo comes in. "Judgement Day" is still very epic Maiden-ish but I like it better, to me it's more "Caught Somewhere in Time" (which I actually like) than "Seventh Son," which I don't. Since it's half and half based on those tracks, I'll give the album a full listen and see what I think.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:09 pm 
 

Virgin Sails just didn't have enough really strong, hooky moments. That kind of riff-salad technical stuff doesn't do much for me now.

"The Crucifix" was always my least favorite on Ample Destruction too, though it has grown on me now compared to when I first heard it. The band was better at doing hard rocking and fast songs as opposed to epics, but it's an admirable try and Conklin's dramatic vocal intonations and screams are awesome.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:14 pm 
 

The Crucifix is absolutely one of the biggest highlights on Ample Destruction. The way it takes time to build mood and atmosphere stands out as completely separate from the rest of the album, but instead of breaking up the flow I think it only sharpens the edge of the more immediate songs. That build up and release is everything. What a jam.

Seems like they were keen to develop that sort of thing, as Shadow Thief goes through a whole host of moods and feelings.
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:23 pm 
 

Ex-Steel Prophet vocalist Rick Mythiasin doesn't seem to be doing too well. He posted this a few hours ago;

Quote:
This is the most boring fkn town ever, Denver is where it's at here it's a fkn trap, never thought I'd say this but at least in Roswell I was surrounded by family, even though they can hardly stand me, except for my beloved Aunt Mannie Porter whom I adore & miss very much, she is an amazing woman who is really the only one of my mom's siblings who can stomach me let alone listen to the stories of choas & madness that is my crazy fkn life, but me and my sisters & brother were all adopted, and I think they're relieved about that, I sure am, because I know I am a few fries short of a happy meal, and honestly if it all ends suddenly & violently, I've made my mark by releasing 14 albums, almost getting the slot in Pantera before Phil Anselmo, was in Masters Of Metal aka Agent Steel for a year, on Redemptions debut album, and yeah I fucked that one off too, but I had my reasons, my entire life has always been intense, painful, yet exciting until now, which finds me here in this desolate place of haters who have nothing better to do but fuck with my head, yet what these psychic douchebags fail to realise is that I'm on to them just as much as they're on to me, but I play along and pretend to be oblivious to there unwanted relentless assaults on my being, conscious and uncontiouslly, my life is just about over, I am just about out of fight or hope, unless by some blessing from my higher power & ansestry they send a true Magi/master who can lift me out of this sinking pit dispair & emptiness, but I seriously doubt that any guardian Angel will pity me at the last moment guid me to the light & my true destiny, because this sure isn't it, my talent going to waste as wither away in extreme drug addicted humiliation, not even giving a fuck anymore as 51 years is breaking me down and longing for the grave & succuming to the dark Archon Lords who have a tight grip on my soul, this is my final cry for help as I'm slowly dying if you are reading this HELP me Godamit!
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DoomMetalAlchemist
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:28 pm 
 

It took me a while to get into the slow heavy part of The Crucifix, but I've always thought the soft intro was one of the most brilliant parts in all of heavy metal, with literally everything about it right down to the cheesy keyboards being just completely perfect.

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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:39 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
The Crucifix is absolutely one of the biggest highlights on Ample Destruction. The way it takes time to build mood and atmosphere stands out as completely separate from the rest of the album, but instead of breaking up the flow I think it only sharpens the edge of the more immediate songs. That build up and release is everything. What a jam.


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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:39 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Virgin Sails just didn't have enough really strong, hooky moments. That kind of riff-salad technical stuff doesn't do much for me now.

Virgin Sails is about as technical as something like Cauldron Born or Slauter Xstroyes (at most) to my ears, certainly nowhere near the level of something like Psychotic Waltz or Brothers Grimm or 90s Holocaust (not that I'm trying to imply I know your opinion on any of those latter bands if you've even heard all of them), but certainly I would say that the first four or five songs have plenty of hooks; saying the first two songs in particular don't have strong hooks seems nonsensical to me. To each their own, of course; it does seem slightly more complex than other Satan's Host albums, but if you can dig something like Cauldron Born (which I know you do), I don't know how you can call Virgin Sails "riff-salad technical stuff."
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:42 pm 
 

I dunno, I could never remember anything off it and that was just the impression I got. They were better at writing catchy moments on all the other reunion albums - just more consonant, memorable vocals and riffs.

Psychotic Waltz's debut is more technical, yeah - but they also did much better songs in my opinion, though the two bands are so different that it's not really a comparison. Haven't heard the other bands you mentioned.

Cauldron Born is definitely in the same category - haven't really been into them for a while either though. They're a once in a while thing for me I guess.
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:45 pm 
 

Ah okay, fair enough on Cauldron Born. Yeah Psychotic Waltz is quite different stuff, as are those other two bands, I wasn't trying to make a strong comparison, just to illustrate things that are really close to "riff-salad technical stuff." But if you don't even like Cauldron Born-ish stuff nowadays then I can at least understand where you're coming from.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:55 pm 
 

Yeah I mean I should probably play more Cauldron Born if anything. There was a divide somewhere along the line where I moved onto a lot of new, different stuff and old shit I liked got lost in the shuffle.

Nothing wrong with some riff-salad type stuff if it's good... just not always my thing. Sometimes it can be very entertaining. Just depends on the mood.

I'll be honest though, a lot of the shit I listen to these days is more based around catchier vocals and guitars in equal measure, as opposed to the Cauldron Born stuff. But neither style is bad or anything.
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