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kytokinesis
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:17 pm 
 

Jonpo wrote:
kytokinesis wrote:
So it does sound a little German. Some German riffing structures and songwriting ideas but without the German sense of melody, replaced with more American sounding note and chord progressions. So to me it sounds like a hybrid of the two. I wouldn't quite call it German Speed 101 as it lacks a lot of that core cultural folky European melodic writing.


Well you've got my interest with the part I've bolded above! Could you hit me with a few examples of German bands you were thinking of that have "folky European" melodicism in their writing? That sounds amazing! I've never checked Angel Dust, is that their deal?

It IS amazing. And yes, in part I meant the "sing-song" chorus melodies. But where exactly do those come from? Those choruses are products of the underlying melodic concepts that the songs are constructed from. They find their way into the riffs and especially solo sections as well. I believe these concepts have historical and cultural relevance and are what immediately distinguishes European speed/power metal from the US counterpart. People who enjoy the European style of power metal enjoy it because of the songwriting and melody. It's more than just a cheesy chorus to sing along to (though it certainly doesn't hurt). I'm not telling you anything you don't already know or haven't heard before, but from the way you asked, maybe you just haven't thought about it this way before. If I had to argue EUPM vs folk metal I guess I could make an analogy to the argument death metal fans use when arguing that there are melodeath bands (In Flames) vs death metal bands that have melody (Dismember)

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HamburgerBoy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:37 pm 
 

It might have its roots in Western European culture to some extent, but the style spread virtually everywhere except for America. Japanese, South American, Eastern European, etc bands all caught onto the Euro-power chorus style before America did. Kinda ironically, Kamelot was doing it in 1985 on that early demo comp they were on, but they wouldn't break through until long after when Euro-power was arguably at its most prominent. Probably some kind of American cultural aversion if anything, when you look at Iced Earth, 90s Jag Panzer, and the other chuggier/thrashier bands becoming the face of American power metal over that same time period.

And fwiw, that Savage Grace song posted earlier sounds nothing like German power metal to me, it's just Di'Anno-era Maiden levels of melody with the aggression turned up one notch higher, a little Transylvania here, a little Purgatory there, which is basically the common link of all early power metal.

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Dungeon_Vic
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Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:46 pm 
 

Speed metal from Chile, I think this is Eat Metal's latest sign. Lots of Agent Steel worship (you can see it in the logo as well) and a very interesting female voice that really brings the metal. Loved the song, looking forward to the album.

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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:40 pm 
 

HamburgerBoy wrote:
It might have its roots in Western European culture to some extent, but the style spread virtually everywhere except for America. Japanese, South American, Eastern European, etc bands all caught onto the Euro-power chorus style before America did. Kinda ironically, Kamelot was doing it in 1985 on that early demo comp they were on, but they wouldn't break through until long after when Euro-power was arguably at its most prominent. Probably some kind of American cultural aversion if anything, when you look at Iced Earth, 90s Jag Panzer, and the other chuggier/thrashier bands becoming the face of American power metal over that same time period.

The thing about Latino metal (Spanish as well as south/central American) is that some of it pretty much just apes EUPM, such as Angra and about a million other examples, but plenty of other bands take musical influence from their own musical traditions. Even if they didn't sing in Spanish, it would be very easy to place bands like Baron Rojo, Tierra Santa, El Dragon, Obus, Nimrod, Dantesco, etc. in Latin America/Spain.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:55 pm 
 

By Angra hopefully you are referring to the post Matos years because their first two (maybe Fireworks too) are two of the most original (proggy) power metal albums ever. Absolutely original.
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:32 pm 
 

I'm not familiar with their second album, but Angels Cry always just sounded like europower to me, if europower of above-average competence and a great vocalist. Sure, it does its own thing to enough of an extent that it manages not to sound derivative, but for that album at least, "most original power metal album ever" just seems like a gigantic stretch. I'd think of something out there to the extent that a band like Existence or the Dutch Martyr or maybe Blind Guardian's ANATO. Nobody sounds very close to any of those at all, frankly. Of course, I don't know how much early Angra influenced the rest of the europower scene, and you seem to be more knowledgeable than I am about things like that, but really, it doesn't take a drastic leap of logic to go from Helloween's Keepers Part 2 to the general sound on Angels Cry. Again, not that it's terribly derivative, and it is a pretty good album (my main complaint being that the guitar tone is about as limp and polished as they come), but one of the most original power metal albums ever? Really?

If the second one is way more out there and unique than the first, then I'll have to give it a listen. That would be pretty cool, I'm always on the hunt for power metal that just sounds nothing like anybody else. On that note, if anyone else can think of any albums/bands that fit that description, feel free to mention them, although if its 80s and not super obscure I probably know it already.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:16 pm 
 

Angra's stuff always had cool tribal, folky influences - I mostly listen to the Edu Falaschi albums and those always had odd little twists and turns to them. Not just another europower band for sure.
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:32 pm 
 

Well I've only heard the debut. I'd be keen to check out one of their weirder/more unique albums, what would be a good one to start with? Temple of Shadows is overwhelmingly the most popular but I have no idea whether it's up my alley or not. I'm looking specifically for the most unusual and out-there album they've put out.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:54 pm 
 

Jophelerx wrote:
Well I've only heard the debut. I'd be keen to check out one of their weirder/more unique albums, what would be a good one to start with? Temple of Shadows is overwhelmingly the most popular but I have no idea whether it's up my alley or not. I'm looking specifically for the most unusual and out-there album they've put out.


It's been a couple of years since I listened to them a lot, but my favorites were Aurora Consurgens and Aqua. Both are pretty modern sounding but there isn't really much else like them - it's just a very identifiable sound. Temple of Shadows has a lot more overt folkiness though - an eight-minute ballad called "The Shadow Hunter" was always very good.
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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:32 pm 
 

I stand by my comment. Remember, this is 1993.

Never Understand - who played like this?

And this:
Carry On
The neoclassical thing was obviously done by Malmsteen and shredders before. However, this speed metal anthem brings together all 3 Angra ingredients: the neoclassical brilliance (they had way above average players at the time - the drummer is Alex Holzwarth), the classy use of synths (that brass little section there) and Matos' delivery, which stood out very much.

To me this combines Fates/QR classy prog with power/speed ala Helloween/BG with the competence of a DT caliber band. To me and other this was very special. Maybe I'm once again echoing the particulars of my country but it's very common here to find a lot of people who swear by the fMatos albums and dismiss the Falaschi albums as too common europower. Although personally I definitely consider the later albums as some of the "europower" that did not feel derivative at the time, I definitely do side with the first group.

...or this?
Time
Where what Matos brings to the table along with their characteristic classy (sorry for the overuse of the word but it's really what pops everytime I try to describe it) metal.

And this concerns their debut! What they did on Holy Land is even more impressive. This is where they really put in the brazilian/tribal stuff more prominently, while keeping all their previous unique things. Onlythis time they sound even more focused and mature. In a good way! Of course, this is more a prog/power album than a pure power metal album, so in a sense we're both right and wrong. It's a very original power metal album in the sense it's more than that.

Right from the start:
Crossing / Nothing to Say The album opener. Blew me the fuck away. Ambitious but pulls it off seamlessly. And that riff, damn! :)

Silence and Distance- second song. Matos goes soprano. As far as ballads go, this in my ears gives peak Dream Theater a run for their money (it's 1996, so that's the bar, Conception is another good example)

Finally, my favorite song along with the opener.
Carolina IV, the album epic with a GODLY harmony solo in the middle.
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Spiner202
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:32 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:41 pm 
 

Angra is an outstanding band but they definitely go off the rails at times. Both the Matos and Edu eras are great. I'd say the debut is my favourite of the Matos era because of that opening run of Carry On / Time / Angels Cry. Time is seriously one of the most insane songs ever. Holy Land has some good moments, but I think they went too hard on the tribal elements. Fireworks is one that I don't find overly memorable, but always rules when it's on.

And then there is Rebirth. Unquestionably their best for me. A masterpiece front to back (especially if you track down the Japanese version with the awesome ballad: Bleeding Heart). I never really got into Temple of Shadows. Edu's voice sounds shot from the extensive Rebirth tour, and the songwriting is all over the place. The first title track (The Temple of Hate) is one of their best songs ever, but a lot of tracks on that album do little for me. Somehow, Aurora Consurgens feels like a complete left turn despite also being super proggy. It's another one of my favourites though. Aqua is like a tamed-down/not as good version of Aurora Consurgens.

The newest album with Fabio is pretty cool too. All the singles rule, and there's a few other decent tracks. I'm nervous about the upcoming album from the one song they've released though.
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failsafeman
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:47 pm 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
By Angra hopefully you are referring to the post Matos years because their first two (maybe Fireworks too) are two of the most original (proggy) power metal albums ever. Absolutely original.

Yeah mostly I meant later stuff. I'm also a huge fan of their debut and while it was largely EUPM-derived, it was definitely a pioneer in the neoclassical prog/power sound that bands like Symphony X and such would later be known for. At the same time, if you somehow had never heard of Angra and then heard that debut for the first time, I doubt anyone would place them in South America.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:33 pm 
 

Aqua was always my favorite one by them. Listening now and this is just a great piece of metal - tight, proggy songs, dense guitars and Edu's vocals never sounded better. They're more subtle on here and it works. I don't find it generic either, plenty of cool Brazilian-style rhythms and atmospheres I don't hear in average Euro bands.

Checking out Holy Land now as I hadn't actually heard it - really cool music, but I can't get into Matos's vocals. Just too shrill for me, though he sounds better than some other times I've heard him here. Definitely curious to hear this whole thing though so I am giving it a legit shot.
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Opus
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:40 pm 
 

What do you think of this? A band that is completely(?) incognito because the don't want anything overshadowing their message.
Is image/reputation needed to get noticed. Or is this just gimmicky?

Apparently they are seasoned metal musicians, playing solid trad/teutonic heavy metal.

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Temple Of Blood
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:56 pm 
 

Being completely incognito might be artistically a great idea, but bad for marketing.

Unless you think the names of the players would hurt the music's reception.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:40 pm 
 

That sounds interesting and I support guys like that doing what they feel is good for their art.

http://www.puresteel-promotion.com/news ... anuar_2018

I legit never thought this would come out.
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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:45 am 
 

I just gave Procession's new album a spin, and holy shit, it slays. Instant purchase after my first time through it. They've really upped the consistency and the quantity of the riffs since To Reap Heavens Apart, which was a good album but sometimes felt a bit short on ideas. No such problem here; this thing keeps the momentum up all the way through.

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Aydross
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:26 pm 
 

Why wasn't I aware of Threshold before? I always thought they were some underground progressive metal band more on the Dream Theater side... but this is the poppiest prog/power metal ever.

All in all, awesome band :love:
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iRaptr
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:24 pm 
 

Got any recommendations for Winter-ish songs?
I really can't explain but looking for some songs that have an wintery (cold-ish) atsmosphere but with clean vocals (I know that BM and Folk has this type of stuff).
Thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone!
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Kerrick
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:26 pm 
 

iRaptr wrote:
Got any recommendations for Winter-ish songs?
I really can't explain but looking for some songs that have an wintery (cold-ish) atsmosphere but with clean vocals (I know that BM and Folk has this type of stuff).
Thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone!


Merry Christmas to you too!

Northern Flame has quite a few wintery themes:
Youtube: show


Theocracy has a handful of Christmas songs and they're all quite good, if you're looking for that sort of thing:
Youtube: show

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:43 pm 
 

Who could forget Halford's Christmas album, "Winter Songs"?
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iRaptr
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:02 pm 
 

Thanks a lot guys! :)
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Jophelerx
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:33 pm 
 

iRaptr wrote:
Got any recommendations for Winter-ish songs?
I really can't explain but looking for some songs that have an wintery (cold-ish) atsmosphere but with clean vocals (I know that BM and Folk has this type of stuff).
Thanks and Merry Christmas to everyone!


Here are a few (some are ballads but all from heavy/power metal bands):

Youtube: show


Youtube: show


Youtube: show


Youtube: show


Youtube: show


Youtube: show
(Relevant track starts at 10:08)

Youtube: show


There are plenty of other tracks with winter-themed lyrics, but I tried to pick out songs that had something of a wintery atmosphere in regards to the music, as well. Hope you find something you like!
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:44 pm 
 

All this talk of wintery bands and not a single mention of early Sonata Arctica? For shame!

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kytokinesis
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Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:57 pm 
 

For whatever reason, Battalions of Fear is my go-to Christmas album.

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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:03 pm 
 

Another pair of Storrsson tracks are out, and they're really fucking good, too.

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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:08 pm 
 

Any fans of LEGION here?

Both their albums were reissued by Arkeyn Steel Records. This is good classy USPM that reminds me a bit of Syrus or Deadly Blessing at times.
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Lazarus Steel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:32 pm 
 

I own both CD's from Legion. Great USPM!

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lassielazer
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:44 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:47 pm 
 

New band i found. Sounds fucking great

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezD5oJN7Iw4

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:31 am 
 

New project called Riddlemaster from Mark Shelton playing with original MR drummer Rick Fisher, apparently in the style of early MR. Album's called "Bring the Magik Down."

Interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FkKiqf4y2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kACgYeibLeE

doesn't sound all that different from some modern MR to me, just a bit less heavy.
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Jonpo
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:58 am 
 

Nahsil wrote:
New project called Riddlemaster from Mark Shelton playing with original MR drummer Rick Fisher, apparently in the style of early MR. Album's called "Bring the Magik Down."

Interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FkKiqf4y2s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kACgYeibLeE

doesn't sound all that different from some modern MR to me, just a bit less heavy.


Nahsil wrote:
doesn't sound all that different from some modern MR to me, just a bit less heavy.


Quote:
doesn't sound all that different from some modern MR to me


Quote:
modern MR


Fuck.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:08 pm 
 

So I just read that Steel Prophet has a new vocalist. Some guy who hasn't sung for a single band listed on M-A? I have to think he won't stick around. I just don't see a future for SP without Rick, for better or worse.
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Opus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:33 pm 
 

Hasn't Rick just lost it? The last album was a strange... thing.

I do love Steel Prophet, and no one would be happier than me if they could make it work with Rick again. I'm really looking forward to hearing new stuff from them, but seeing there's been 17 years since their last solid album I ain't getting my hopes up.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:07 pm 
 

Well, I guess this new guy has sung for JP/IM tribute bands. That worked out great for Slauter Xstroyes so maybe I'm wrong here and this is the best way forward. Now if we could get a great new Mystic-Force album too I'd be super happy.
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basscreature666
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:38 pm 
 

any underrated power metal bands anyone could suggest?

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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:37 pm 
 

Temple Of Blood wrote:
So I just read that Steel Prophet has a new vocalist. Some guy who hasn't sung for a single band listed on M-A? I have to think he won't stick around. I just don't see a future for SP without Rick, for better or worse.


Unfortunately, Rick Mythiasin seems like he'll forever be one of those incredible singers who could never stick in a good band. Steel Prophet were thoroughly mediocre for years, despite his fantastic vocals (I really can't dig anything of theirs past the Inner Ascendance demo). Tons of wasted potential...

All told, I think his best work is probably Something Wicked This Way Comes off of Redemption's debut album (incidentally, the only Redemption album that's really worth a damn - what a perplexingly disappointing band they are...). The rest of the album is nothing to write home about (I guess Window to Space is sorta nifty), but that track is 25 minutes of prog metal greatness. A pity he's sort of buried in the mix, though.
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Temple Of Blood
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:50 am 
 

Oblarg wrote:
Unfortunately, Rick Mythiasin seems like he'll forever be one of those incredible singers who could never stick in a good band. Steel Prophet were thoroughly mediocre for years, despite his fantastic vocals (I really can't dig anything of theirs past the Inner Ascendance demo). Tons of wasted potential...

All told, I think his best work is probably Something Wicked This Way Comes off of Redemption's debut album (incidentally, the only Redemption album that's really worth a damn - what a perplexingly disappointing band they are...). The rest of the album is nothing to write home about (I guess Window to Space is sorta nifty), but that track is 25 minutes of prog metal greatness. A pity he's sort of buried in the mix, though.


I'll need to check that song out.

I LOVE "Dark Hallucinations" though. I'm not gonna say every song on it is perfect, but "Strange Encounter", "We are not Alone", and the Fates Warning cover are amazing. "Into the Void" also has some good tracks (like "The Revenant") on it too (funny to me that this drummer is now playing in The Offspring).
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Iliescu
Mallcore Kid

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:05 pm 
 

Favorite genres of metal music besides plain or classical metal. As bands to share would be Altaria, Aeterna, Shadowlynx, ApocalipS and Requiem.

Altaria - Unchain the Rain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYf2CSXmCDk
Requiem - Possessed by Power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3LmBTY0DQg
Shadowlynx - Atilla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8RN6otj8xs
ApocalipS - Gate to Infinity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6bdiOxA5o0
Aeterna - Revive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ldCy04_Ygg

Much more than that is fine but, wish knew how to connect with drop down menu as the other posted.
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Trajan 6th Roman Emperor ~Things of Quality Need Not Fear Time ~
More than 10 Banner Base Squads
No Surrender first squad on Subspace Continuum 2003 to 2016 where then as Cobra

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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4412
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:38 pm 
 

Nobody talking about the new Visigoth track?

Video for "Warrior Queen":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raBpZfbSX10

It's soooooooooooo cheesy, hahah. I DIED when the lead singer starts playing a flute. Love it. The riffs aren't super inspired to me, but the chorus is definitely fun. It's grown on me. Hopefully the rest of the album has some superior riffing.
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and we are born
from the same womb
and hewn from
the same stone - Primordial, "Heathen Tribes"

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kytokinesis
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 144
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:21 am 
 

The new Visigoth track is good and pretty much what I expected it to sound like. Cheesiness is also part of the fun. I'm sure the album won't disappoint.

Some solid sounding debut material from Old Wolf

Youtube: show

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