Oh yeah, I love the part in Griffin - Hawk the Slayer around 2:40 where it changes tempo and a furious solo comes in. The whole album is great.

Gotta check Glacier out.

Hmm, found an album of theirs called The Writer's Eye that seems to be a compilation of the EP and the demo you reviewed. It's not on MA though.

p.s. checked Elegy - Labyrinth of Dreams out, failsafe. This is pretty good, sort of like Shadow Gallery.

Oh, I agree. That was the first thing I noticed about the second album; those fucking vocals are crazy! Very cool effect, just gave it a much more layered and complex atmosphere.


Well, fuck everyone else. Honestly I think it may have something to do with the fact that people these days are more often getting into metal through more extreme bands, than before when people did through bands like Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, maybe Metallica or Megadeth at the most extreme. Metalcore, deathcore, hardcore bands with metal influences, all sorts of stuff like that has much more in common generally speaking with extreme metal than traditional, and it's only natural that fans would make the much shorter leap to the former rather than to the latter.


Oh, sorry, I thought you were expressing disbelief rather than curiosity. Guess I'm the one who misread you that time. Anyway, off the top of my head and aside from the bands you already mentioned, I'm thinking Glory Bell's Band, Keen Hue, Zone Zero, and early 220 Volt. The problem with the NWOSHM is that there were a shitload of bands that put out 7" singles and nothing else, so it's rather difficult to say if a band deserves classic status based on maybe 10 minutes of material. Doubling that problem is the fact that probably 90% of those 7" singles range from mediocre to worthless, so that means if you really want a good, first-hand judgment of what's good and what isn't, you've got a LOT of slogging through obscure nonsense ahead of you.


Ha, I wrote that review back in 2005, so take it with a grain of salt, but it's still a pretty enjoyable album.

It is truly sad that most people get into metal via only a tiny bit of the most obvious classics and do not know what is hidden in the vast heavy/power scene. Hell - if one only concentrated on the US there would be a gigantic number of bands to check out. Take Black Death - some of the most ferocious, mean, ravaging heavy metal ever recorded. But no - people prefer their Darkthrone rip-offs and brutal death metal to some genuine, riffy and catchy metal. Fuck them.

As for the NWOSHM goes thanks failsafeman - I did not know about Keen Hue and Zone Zero. Gotta check'em out. Care to compare them to something.

And as a total sidenote a scene that people usually dismiss is the Spanish/Latin/etc. scene. Tons of awesome bands there. Too bad there is big problem with CD's and their availability.

Some people tend to assume trad metal is only three bands, you know Maiden, Priest and Sabbath. I must say, I found that the traditional metal scene has far more depth than say death metal. This tends to be the case when a sub-genre has more focus on melody than fucking blast beats or whatever. But then again I don't think I even tried to explore more heavy and power metal for a good year or so. I got the first 3 Helloween releases and decided after hearing the mainstream shite in magazines that all other power metal was flowery. I focused on death metal and black metal for about a year too.

And this is exactly what is wrong qwith metal today: instead of gradually progressing from classic heavy metal acts to traditional doom and speed/thrash/power to more extreme subgenres of metal, almost all newcomers just go straight for the ost extreme bands and thus screw up the basic understanding of what heavy metal is. It is sad and frustrating, because most of them care only about being "etreme" and "non-conformist", when in reality they aren't any different from others This also leads to countless crappy bedroom "blekk methvl" one-man projects and avantgarde experimental neoclassical progressive techincal brutal melodic death-grind-metalcore bands with strong hardcore influence.

[/rant]

By the way, does anybody here know what album of Unrest (Ger) is best to start with?

This often results in a complete lack of understanding of what heaviness means, though it is really subjective. People tend to measure it in how bad your production is or how many blast beated cookie-cutter songs how can put in a row. Rather than tension, feeling, atmosphere and dynamics.

Yeah, that's why those kids label Shitknot as death metal, BFMV as thrash metal, etc. They just think that heaviness=downtuned guitars. No fucking way! Heaviness=intensity+dynamics(+atmosphere, in some (sub)genres).

Funny thing that I noticed is that this does not work in both ways. I know a lot of classic metal fans who can and will appreciate black and death metal and even classical hardcore/punk. I guess it all comes down to what you mentioned - having the right idea about dynamics, heaviness, intensity, melody and so on and so forth.

Haha, yes, it's true in most cases. Only one of my friends who listen mainly to BM appreciates old thrash and heavy metal bands.

The thing I really find interesting is that this is not an "old school only" thread at all, yet it still doesn't get much attention even from those seeking modern bands of the traditional/power genre. Further proof folks are just looking over to "supposed" extreme sides of metal thesedays ... I guess there's quite a few pages here, but this is one of the rare threads I check all the time and it's still just mainly a select few of us talking about random bands ... doesn't bother me at all though, great discussions and as failsafe said about those missing out, fuck em'.


Heh, well that's at least one. My friends act like they can't even acknowledge the fact that real 80's metal existed outside of the big hair junk. It really makes no sense at all. Then when they try to show me some "crazy thrash" bands I wanna kill myself, I can't think of any good examples, but it's typically another hardcore/core screamo band.

To start up another topic, I think we should come up with a good list of new classic traditional/USPM bands like Cauldron Born, just for the hell of it? And the world could use more of this stuff.

And I never realized how insanely awesome both their vocalists were. I'm going to shamefully admit, I've known about these guys since forever, always knew about their greatness and listened to some songs here and there at times, but I've never really given these albums a real focused listen. Yeah, I think I need to bash my head in the wall now.

This reminds me I am one of like 20 people that own a custom-special-made Cauldron Born t-shirt. White XL tee with the logo and two axes crossed and the words "Epic Barbarian Metal" on the bottom. Same design for the back. Killer stuff - I am glad I bought it.

Hah, Black Death is awesome. Street walkah!!! Or are you talking about the Brocas Helm album, which is even more awesome.

As a fan of metal, I really don't think I could ever claim any one subgenre has more depth than others. Maybe there are a lot of Darkthrone clones and a lot of death metal bands who seem to focus too much on blastbeats, but there were also a lot of waste-of-time NWOBHM and, as failsafeman says (though I don't know anything about this scene, really) NWOSHM bands ... so it's just a matter of mining for precious metals among all the rocks, so to speak. I'd say it's like this anywhere. It's true that a lot of people never seem to dig into the traditional side of metal, but I still meet young people (well, younger than I am) hunting for those rare thrash and NWOBHm recordings .. hell, I just went to a girl's birthday party and she's got more NWOBHM stuff than I've ever seen in my life, and she's twenty years old.. It's really not so bad, folks.

I am reffering to both actually but I had the band on my mind. I cannot wait for Auburn Records to reissue their recordings (and the second Shok Paris album) - they were one of the awesomest, coolest, rawest bands I listened to. TURN IT UP LOUUUUUD!

And man I know there are people here and there who listen to that kind of stuff. Hell - I do! And I am only 22 so I know there glimmers of hope. But when I see the amount of black/death fans in comparison to us digging the trad metal here it really is a big diffrence. Hell - we still do not have reissues for some of the most important bands of the genre (Heavy Load, Jag Panzer anyone?) while every death metal that recorded a demo is getting reissued nowdays. Shame really.

Hah, I didn't even know there was a second Shok Paris album. Just got turned on to their first; it's pretty good.

Yeah, know what you mean about the reissues, but frankly I'm still waiting for some of my favourite death metal stuff to be re-issued too, so I don't think it's really a case of genre favouritism (although there are certainly more labels specialising in extreme metal nowadays, I guess), moreso, again, a case of people being afraid to take a chance on a release withh limited appeal.

MOAR REISHUEZ PLZ!!!

On a serious note, I'm all for reissuing old stuff as long as it isn't butchered by remastering.

True about the re-release thing. My favourite death metal got reissued 4 years ago - I missed it and it is out of print again. Fuck I hate those limited reissues. Keep music in print I say! (the release I am talking about is Gorement's stuff and also the first Demigod album that was releaed like 2 years ago and bam! Cannot get it ANYWHERE - or I am just looking in bad places in that case - PM me where it is - much appreciated)

And if you liked the first Shok Paris album you will like the second one. A little less on the NWOBHM side of things and more on the more complex songwriting one but still with a solid heavy metal base. And Hix kills on vocals and that one. Steel and Starlight!

Agreed. And keeping said reissues in print - I am looking your way Xtreem Music and Necroharmonic....

Another riff I think makes great use of rhythm is Savatage - By the Grace of the Witch.

Man, that chorus never comes out of my head.

In regards to the "F.W.O.S.H.M." conversation between Zdan and failsafeman some of my personal favourites include the following:

Trouble - The Warrior 12"
Gotham City - Gotham City/Killer Angels 7"
Scratch - Before the Rain/Metal Breaker 7" (B-side mostly)
220 Volt - Prisoner of War 7"
Behemoth - Death Wings 7"
Thrashon - Weird, Weird World 7" (ignore when it was released, killer stuff)
Wizzard - Ninya Warrior 7"
Crystal Pride - "Silverhawk" 7"


The list goes on, generally I find the "genre" (if you would call it that) somewhat of a poor mans equivalent to the N.W.O.B.H.M. and find a few of the bands worshiped by fans and collectors fairly average. Check out the above releases if you haven't already and rather than going further get into some of the more obscure N.W.O.B.H.M. releases . My recommendation list for those would be at least three times bigger with more "essential" releases.

Fuck yes! I'm listening to it now, guess it leaked.

Hmm, doesn't seem to be the complete riff wrecking machine that was Garden of Chaos, but it's not bad. There are multiple ballads.

Anvil and Riot deserve much more recognition than they get. Fact.

Anvil espcially. Riot too but to a lesser extent - many afficionados of the genre recognize the importance of "Fire Down Under" and the pure badassery of "Thundersteel". But Anvil really need some lovin' - their first three albums are pure heavy metal ownage!

Yet another "thank you!" to Xeogred for recommending Warrant and Mysto Dysto.

Speed metal is probably the only metal subgenre whose melodic form appeals to me more than the harsher one.

How about "Winterkill" by Slauter Xstroyes? Nice sense of playfullness there. I was looking for rhythmically diverse and interesting heavy metal a while ago and I still think SX is one of the best examples here, along with Fates warning.

TORTURE! IN THE TOWER!

Damn, Warrant are really awesome for what they are. I need to try my hand at writing reviews.

I know a ton of you guys love Satan's Court in the Act, but I feel like I'm the only one who really likes their other album Suspended Sentence. It doesn't have Brian Ross, but Michael Jackson (he actually wore a fedora on stage when he performed with Pariah) is a fantastic singer and the songs on that album are damn catchy. It kind of feels like Pariah-lite in that it isn't as aggressive, but it sort of leans towards a more epic feel on tracks like 'Avalanche of A Million Hearts'.

Other then Ross's presence being absent everything else is there. Fantastic riffs, solos, a MUCH clearer production then CitA and more then competent vocals.

Just wanted to share my afternoon thoughts.

Oh no, I totally agree with you. It would have been cool to have Ross singing, but the production on "COurrt in the Act" is truly atrocious .. I much, much prefer the sound of their 1981 demo. Funny how Neat Records gave them a recording budget and managed to fuck up the sound so badly. It's not as crap as Blitzkrieg's "A Time of Changes" but that reverb really fucking kills it .. sounds like the band is playing miles away and it's totally unfitting. ANyway, "Avalanche of a Million Hearts" is just a gorgeous song, and the guitars all over that album are jaw-dropping.

I'll give their demo a listen as I haven't yet.

While I will agree that Court could do with a better production, I wouldn't say it's enough to deter the album whatsoever. In my spare time I've attempted to try and rebalance the tracks but don't have a good setup to really do it.

Outside of the amazing riffage from Russ and Steve, Satan has always managed some damn good choruses that you always sing/shout along to; I can't think of an obvious weak point in their music. The songs never really meander, everything is always very tight and everything is tasteful in some way.

I suggest for those of you who haven't heard it already, listen to their live album Live in the Act. It's the CitA lineup and it's very good. Maybe one or two stumbles in the whole thing and Brian Ross is magnificent on the songs and his banter is pleasant and isn't constantly screaming "LOUDAAAAAAHHHH".


Edit: the '81 demo is pretty good. I like the excessive reverb.

The Into the Fire demo is kind of like Court but too slow...the singer is pretty unexciting. Definitely not a fast enough pace.

I apologize for "derailing" the thread by begging a reccomendation, but I'm not sure where else to ask. I'm looking for epic (but catchy) power metal in the vein of Blind Guardian and Kamelot. Preferably with soaring, major-key choruses if possible, and minimal to no harsh vocals. The singing should be strong, and fairly far in the forefront. Thanks

Haha, thanks. This stuff never fails whenever you want to kickback and enjoy some straight up fast metal.

I think you and I are pretty much the only ones that don't mind the production on Court In The Act, lol. Anyways, I too really enjoy Suspended Sentence. Hell I'd say 92nd Symphony beats out Priest's almighty Hellion and anything else like it. But Satan and crew were always at an unreachable peak in technical skill. I've been meaning to write a review for that album for awhile, just haven't really gotten around to it. I remember I didn't like Jackson at first, but now I couldn't see that album or Pariah any other way.

Call me utterly crazy but if the production were different on Court In The Act I think it could take away some of the albums magic. I've seriously never had complaints about it.

I'm a huge fan of everything that lineup has touched (aside from switching vocalists). Satan, to Blind Fury, to Pariah (though I'll admit Unity was a little lackluster coming from them). Kind of a shame they eventually broke off. Ramsey and Graeme English going off to Skyclad, I've never been able to get into them. All the vocalists they've been with are amazing as well. Lou Taylor is probably among the closest you could get to Cloven Hoof's Russ North and Alan Hunter from Tysondog is no ameteur himself.

I honestly don't think I've heard Live in the Act though, I'll have to look around for that.

I think I can agree with you on their second demo. Vocalist isn't the best and the slower speed kind of hinders songs like No Turning Back.

The production on Court in the Act is charming in that underground sort of way. It makes the album much harder to get into though.

I just edited my post above adding:

Call me utterly crazy but if the production were different on Court In The Act I think it could take away some of the albums magic. I've seriously never had complaints about it.

Yeah. , the album is like in my top 5 probably.

The production does have a sort of charm about it; It actually reminds me a lot of Suffocation's Effigy... in that you kind of have to work through it to really appreciate it.

I should get my shit together and listen to Blind Fury some more. Can't remember the last time I did

I'm really hoping the recent reunion will spawn AT LEAST a taped live show or at most a live album

If Court had the production that Blind Fury's Out of Reach has then it would be amazing.

The world wouldn't be able to handle that kind of awesomeness. , but yeah if that were the case ... fuck, nothing would beat it.

M_J: Yeah Blind Fury is really awesome. They have a friendlier vibe than Satan and Pariah, sometimes even sounding a little rock'n ... but they're still pretty out there. Really catchy fun stuff and the epic songs like "Out of Reach" are godly. That ~30 second note Taylor holds a minute and a half into it is downright insane.

It's one I actually own ... lol, gets a lot of spins when I'm driving.

Indeed.

I definitely agree on that Cloven Hoof comparison with Lou, but even the guitar playing is fairly similar to the s/t by CH sans heavy occultness. Guess it's just that NWOBHM feel. I think that dual guitar passage in Evil Eyes could be one of the best things I've heard, guitar-wise, from Russ and Steve. It's fucking mindblowing.

Also, it might be my imagination but the opening riff to "Do It Loud" reminds me way too much of the music from Kid Chameleon. Fuck, there's even a goddamn crystal on the cover of the album

Yeah I made some Hoof comparisons in my review, I think my old review title for the album was "Like a lesser Cloven Hoof", but I guess that was a bit harsh.

Cauldron Born - Clontarf, so fucking catchy. THIS is the kind of vocalist the world needs more of thesedays.

Can anyone recommend me NWOBHM bands similar to Satan? I would also like Speed Metal bands similar to Rage.