I'm creating this thread primarily for delousing the recently locked discography sections of the more "endangered" bands (popular, established, sizeable-discography-having, notorious, bootleg-plagued, etc...), but also for reporting invalid/ambiguous releases in general. I know there is a bootleg thread, but it's long buried and inactive so let's just start anew. Besides, the scope of this thread isn't solely confined to bootlegs.


So why the sudden locking frenzy? Well, despite moderator warnings and our best attempts at monitoring, the bigger bands were constantly plagued by repeated crap additions of various kinds. In light of this, we recently decided to extend the locking of discos to a wider range of bands. The rationale for this is that these bands are so visible that mods and the "few" users who can ignore locks (Metal freaks and higher) should be more than adequate for keeping the discographies up to date. Simultaneously, the pages are protected from the hordes of clueless noobs. Also, people can always file a report if there is something missing, which has the benefit of allowing us to review it first.

This thread will -ideally- serve as a hub for all activity related to cleaning up locked entries (and keeping them clean). We have sealed off the contaminated areas from further hazards, now for the decontamination process... Yeah, there's the report function, but I'd like to push a concentrated effort for the comparably few high-visibility entries that have been locked, so that their discographies can soon arrive at a reasonably pristine state.

So please post links to whatever invalid, presumably invalid or dubious release you might find here (preferably with your own thoughts on the matter and external sourcing corroborating the deletion).

The staff will get involved as well, of course, but I know there are a lot of thorough and often highly knowledgeable users out there who would be of great help in this matter, so come out, come out, don't be shy!


Here is a (partial, read: "relevant for this thread") list of currently locked discographies:

Also, Les Légions Noires (all have been locked for a while now, I don't know much about those bands, but they seem to be notorious for attracting fake bullshit, might be there is still a number of bootlegs listed):

green = clean
yellow = clean-ish
red = needs checking

Now, what are invalid release entries? Lookie here:

• Bootlegs: Obviously. Anything unofficial, fan-made, not sanctioned by the band, yadayada (Note: While bootleg parent entries are not allowed, bootlegged versions of legitimate releases are okay to add as child entries)
• Re-releases: Until we have the shiny feature allowing multiple album versions, these go into the additional notes of the original entry (unless it was released under a new, separate-page name). Re-recordings are allowed, while remasters are not; remixes may depend, case-by-case analysis applies. With the versions feature in effect, re-releases can obviously be dealt with more elegantly, but it is still worth pointing out that they should not get their own master entries unless they are complete or near-complete re-recordings. As mentioned, remixes are subject to individual assessment.
• V/A samplers/compilations: The question arises whether everything with fewer than 7 bands can be added as a split... this is still being discussed among the staff, so let's just stick to the obvious cases for now.
• Unofficial box sets/best of's/compilations
• Promo-only releases: Anything that was never originally intended for a public release/for sale, stuff only sent to labels, magazines, advance copies, radio promo-singles, etc...; be careful not to confuse a public promo (usually identical to a demo), touring promo or similar with this. Terminology is inconsistent and sometimes demo and promo are used to denote the same thing. Possible grey areas.
• Unreleased albums: Well, exactly what it says. Recorded, put together with cover design and all, but never (officially) released/distributed, for whatever reason.
• Private releases: Stuff only given to band members and/or few close friends or most of the silly stuff only coming in single-digit numbers. Note that we can enter a grey area here when it comes to early demos for older bands.
• Inalienable bonus material: This means anything that acts as bonus material of some kind (on a separate medium) for a release, but is not sold/available without that release. Ex. bonus-CDs for DVDs (and vice versa), downloads coming with an LP, bonus single 7'' for a full-length, downloads only coming with a pre-order, etc...

Reminder: "Official release" can in some cases differ from what the band considers it (or would like it) to be. Be careful when it comes to attempted whitewashing/revisionism. When in doubt, ask here first.

Most of this is already present and reiterated in the rules, of course (and the reminder box when one adds a new release).


If you want to suggest a new band page for a lock, you can do so in here as well. Reasons included, naturally, and please keep in mind that locks should be a tool used only for the most extreme cases. Thank you for contributing.

EDIT February 19th, 2014: Naturally, this thread can also be used for posting deletion-worthy and otherwise questionable releases in general.

Alright. Start off with a few bands in need of a lock:
Dark Funeral
Deicide
King Diamond
Mercyful Fate
Helloween
Therion
Carcass
Dimmu Borgir
Paradise Lost
Aura Noir
Funeral [Nor] (I would say famous enough as far as funeral doom is concerned)
Hypocrisy
Killswitch Engage
My Dying Bride
Anathema [Gbr]
At the Gates
Sarcófago
The Gathering
... All the LLN bands and pretty much everyone on the rosters of the giant labels (Spinefarm, Century Media, Nuclear Blast, Peaceville, etc.) I can name way more if need be ...

A note regarding LLN bands - only ~5 LLN releases were properly "released to the public" but this is an unusual case. In these cases, we look for publicly available, complete releases.

I wouldn't lock bands like Funeral, they haven't had any bootlegging or serious discography issues nor are they very notable.

"This was never really released only a couple people have it." Bye.

Ugh... yeah, after I went to bed yesterday it occured to me that these annoying projects defy some of the criteria. -_-


Deleted and info transferred to the notes.

Locked the following:

I went through Anthrax' disco yesterday, deleted a couple of promo albums and bootlegs.

Here's one I'm not sure about: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/An ... lood/44863 Seems to be part of a soundtrack, was this ever available publicly and separately? The description "promo-single" is repeated on Discogs, but I'm not sure what exactly it means here.

Also deleted a number of promo-only-singles on Deep Puple's page.
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/De ... nthem/5693
http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/d ... en.183886/ http://www.thehighwaystar.com/rosas/jou ... covin.html
Not sure about this, it's described as a "jukebox promo", whatever that means exactly. Info rare, I suspect it's not valid.

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/De ... ert/265866
No info online that I could find, looks fishy.

It appears to have been a single, distributed publicly as a CD in a cardboard sleeve, and released by a major label. Anthrax appears to recognize it as part of its discography. I'd say acceptable.


Agreed. It appears to be a bootleg single produced in Italy/Chile. The band doesn't appear to recognize it as part of its discography. I'd say worth removing.


It's the first CD of this album, which is already accounted for here. I suspect this is an error on the part of a user, and should be removed.

I will check the discographies of LLN bands to verify that all of the releases there are valid. Because these were very limited demo tapes distributed by tape trading with select people, I'll check them based on something along these lines, just to verify that they were actually complete releases put out by these bands.
-Music by the band listed.
-Cover art, if available (most of these have artwork and recognizable layouts.)
-Fixed tracklisting. There are a few "alternate versions" but for the most part, LLN demos were complete with artwork/tracklisting, just released in limited quantities.

I have no "insider knowledge" of the circle, so all of this is based on existing knowledge, experience, and a bit of reasoning.

Aäkon Këëtrëh France Dark Ambient
Three complete releases with no question to their legitimacy that I am aware of.

Belkètre France Black Metal
All legitimate AFAIK.

Black Murder France Black Metal
Both releases are legitimate.

Brenoritvrezorkre France Black Metal
I'm not extremely familiar with this band. The four releases with discography entries seem to be complete, I am not familiar with the four releases in the additional notes.

Moëvöt France Dark Ambient
Both releases listed here are legitimate, I believe there are more that we don't have listed too, will need to carefully examine their validity.

Mütiilation France Black Metal
Looks good, though I'm not sure about "promo '95" but I think it is a valid demo-tape-type release to the public.

Satanicum Tenebrae France Dark Ambient
I believe these are all legit.

Seviss France Black Metal
First release is good, I don't know about the second one but Fanfarigoule added it and is generally trustworthy. The release in the additional notes also appears to be legitimate.

Susvourtre France Black Metal
One tape, seems legit.

Torgeist France Black Metal
Correct. The rehearsal tape that used to be there that was removed in the past few years was said to be stolen, according to Beleth'rim in the liner notes/rant in one of his later albums, but I think it may be legitimate, just spread by tape-trading while it was given to many people.

Torture France Dark Ambient
One of those odd projects with one tape, looks fine.

Vlad Tepes France Black Metal
All good.

Vagézaryavtre France Black Metal
Vèrmyapre Kommando France Black Metal
Vzaéurvbtre France Dark Ambient
All three of these appear to be acceptable.

LLN-related bands that I am not as familiar with:

Amaka Hahina France Dark Ambient
"Demetria" and "Aheah Saergathan!" were released through Drakkar, and are legitimate.
"Elsia Keth" and "Seream Iarkham Beleth'Rim" were added by a notoriously unreliable user (Xerxes the Immoral) and I haven't paid a lot of attention to this band. The notes also mention "Du Profond De Mon Ame... Des Profondeurs De La Nuit" which is of the same uncertainty as these.

Belathuzur France Black Metal
I believe both releases here are legitimate, fairly bare entries though.

Chapel of Ghouls France Black Metal
Looks fine.

Zelda France Death Metal
Looks fine.

Thanks, Zodi.

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ce ... wer/285992
There appear to be some bootleg versions of this in existence, CF's official site describes it as having been "released only to record company."

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Pa ... ive/146278
Bootleg?

What's with these Mercyful Fate demos?

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Me ... %231/34425
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Me ... %232/20132
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Me ... 233/228520 (added by Derigin)

I'm also not quite sure what to do with this: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ki ... ver/168486
From what I could find, the single was never available separately, only as part of a magazine sampler, then as a bonus track for a re-release. There was a CD version, but promotional-only. In April 2013 a "split"-7'' was released, containing both the original and the cover. I've deleted the 7'' entry and added a mention of it to the notes, but perhaps we should keep them separate after all? Or only keep the 2013 entry with the sampler/bonus track stuff in the notes?

The HiFive series are digital-only greatest hits compilations released by Rhino. Pantera were on Atlantic Records, which is owned by Warner Bros, who also own Rhino Entertainment.

Hmm, the one I added appears to be on a day that I banned someone for vandalizing the Mercyful Fate page. I don't know what he did (my memory is not THAT good!), but back then I had the tendency to fix wrongly added albums when I came upon them. I suspect that was the case with this one.

That said, on a Mercyful Fate fan page it appears that there might have been these demos. That whole period of Mercyful Fate's history is a big mess.

What about fan club releases listed in the band's official sources as part of their discographies?
Amebix - Beginning of the End and Therion - Bells of Doom are those.

Bal-Sagoth's demo? http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Bal-Sagoth/Demo/39

"This demo was never officially released; it was just sent out on the underground tape trading network in 1993 in order to be circulated."

Amebix... Meh, it was on their Myspace once? It's not listed on their website. I would not allow it from the looks of it, though asking the band directly wouldn't hurt.
Therion... Looks more legit, according to the notes. Seems the band turned it into a sanctioned release, it's also listed on their website.


Well, that's where things get blurry. "Never officially released"... yet telling from the notes it was de facto distributed, not only to labels but also to fans on request. Would appear to be valid.

Lock for Iced Earth?

Looks like the only issue with albums being added incorrectly since 2011 was people adding their new album prematurely, though that happened many times. I suppose they're prominent enough that it's not like anyone will miss a release of theirs. Locked.

I've locked Within Temptation and cleaned up the discography a bit.

what to do with obscure underground releases of doubt?
Keep them or remove them? I am just curious ...

I prefer to keep any information where MA might be the only source of the information. Unless there's a good reason to believe that an obscure release is invalid, we don't remove it.

Just found a report on this. The re-release of this band's demo was entered as a new album even though it was already mentioned in the additional notes of the demo.

Original Demo:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Me ... usea/21099
Re-release:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Me ... usea/21311

Here's the report link:
http://www.metal-archives.com/report/view/id/451542

Report link wont work now that the re-release was deleted. But I did take care of it.

I would say that the French Toulouse NSBM scene should be locked as well. Lots of very limited stuff and rumors going on:

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Blessed_in_Sin/2247
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Kristallnacht/3554
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Funeral/5822
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Sei ... oland/2246
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Fin ... _Dei/23970

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Di ... 994/245155

Is this an official demo? Spread/distributed in some form?

Can only find a bunch of clones and similar encyclopedia sites like ours all posting the same info. Additionally, the image we have here appears to be the only one of the release, posted and reposted dozens of times on the web. However, this site claims to have a download of the album available. I cannot download it on a work-issued computer, so someone else ought to test it out and see if it at least matches the claimed "instrumental only" release the notes claim it to be.

Although it was deleted, I think Sepultura - The Best Of compilation should be listed to the discography section. It is an official Roadrunner release, who owns the legal rights to publish Sepultura songs. If it wasn't totally legal, Sepultura sue the record label for sure. Sepultura official site don't credits this as an official release because they are not a Roadrunner band anymore and it was released after the end of the colaboration contract. The same happened with "Under a Pale Grey Sky" live album, with Chaos DVD and with Blood Rooted on the official site in the past. On Seps new official site there are some mistakes on the discography. Have someone saw phisically a copy of "Procreation of the Wicked" EP? I have not, although i am collecting Sepultura CDs, VHS, DVDs, Audio Taped, Laser Discs, etc since 1992 and i own more than 150 original copies (not including the factory pressed bootlegs) and nobody (i am speaking only about those collectors known by me) who has a Sepultura collection haven't seen this EP. The same happened with Desperate Cry single, until one fan wrote to Roadrunner and cleared the problem. Maybe i'm wrong, i can't proove that this EP don't exist, but nobody can proove that it was released.

by the way - FASHIONME - thanks for confirming the Natural Born Blasters release is a true release.

Checked a few of these:

Burzum - seems to be complete and accurate. There are the two bootleg-ish compilations that the band's site recognizes - Evenfiel added them and confirmed that they are considered official parts of the discography.

Morbid Angel - I'm not extremely familiar with their demos, but everything there has been there for a long time. Seems clean but I'm not 100% sure on the demos.

I downloaded the files but I couldn't get them to play in either Windows Media Player or itunes, I don't know if someone will have better luck with another media player. WMP tells me that there is a (.rar) extension that it can't recognize. Also, and I don't know if it matters or not but, the link above the picture just brings you to the MA page for the release. And the website advertizes as a place to download bootlegs and unreleased material.

Downloaded and spinning it now, and there are vocals, alright. Soooo... either the original tape wasn't "instrumental" at all, or the uploader included the wrong fuckin' files.

This is a request for Disfiguring the Goddess's discography to be locked. The band's releases before 2008 are rather ambiguous (though what's listed there now is correct); also, back in 2009 someone packaged all the band's released songs together as a "full-length" without their consent (which is what you see here) and while a lot of people believe it to be part of their discography, it isn't. The rest of the information currently there is correct and I feel like the mods can minimize sweeping duties in the future by locking it off right now as it is (after deleting that self-titled "full-length").

Locked.

I think Alice in Chains needs to be checked and locked. There are some promos or non-official-ish releases on their discography page, including the split EPs Rock Power Magazine Presents and Cutting Through Columbia Hard Music.

The original, corrupted entry was deleted, someone please add this back: http://www.discogs.com/Metallica-A-Year ... se/2281861

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Mo ... nies/35567 Earns the band a contract with Dark Symphonies, only 2 copies exist...

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ha ... east/83308 only two copies exist...
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ha ... hing/83763 From the 2005 archived official website, the band did not consider it as a separate release. This 2-song demo thing only appearred on the free download page, just like a band uploads 2 songs to then-MySpace.

Deleted the Harvest Fly demos.

The "only two copies exist" note on the Morgion demo was added recently, and it seems to have been added 10+ years ago, so I'm a bit apprehensive about deleting it. I think that one was also distributed digitally.

Sloth's page has been plagued by digital "singles". Most of their so called singles are far from being qualified as digital albums as the rules request. More weird thing is, if you to their bandcamp and listen to ANY of their singles posted after 2011 (more than 100), you'll see that they are almost exactly the same, some gibberish in the first few seconds, then followed by a low frequency noise of several minutes, accompanied by a shitty cover art of who-knows-where-they-got-online.

They should be purged both for music's sake and the rules' sake.