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aloof
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 12:35 pm 
 

I tried to add the vinyl version here:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Re ... ema/303894

and when I click to add one track to side B (so I can move Kuolema there), it simply adds a 3rd track on side A :-/

edit: I get the same on all splits...
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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 12:47 pm 
 

aloof wrote:
I. a band releases a CD, limited to 500 copies, then they do a second pressing of, say 200 copies, exactly the same. one version or two? 500 or 700 as number of copies?

Create two entries. This isn't always that clear-cut, though. For example, when you have a band that does 50 CD-Rs (but with no explicit limitation in mind) and then, a couple months later, burns another 50, I'd lean more towards one single entry for both. Subject for debate.

aloof wrote:
II. how about all the vinyl albums that get released in 100 red, 100 blue, and 300 black vinyl?

If they are all part of one, color-varying release, one entry is enough. Limitation would be 500, detail the numbers for each color in the version description EDIT: additional notes.
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NoKnownName
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 12:58 pm 
 

For some reason, when I added the 2005 reissue of Eternal Nightmare (http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Vi ... are/413291), it kept the image from the parent instead of the one that I uploaded.
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aloof
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:01 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
aloof wrote:
I. a band releases a CD, limited to 500 copies, then they do a second pressing of, say 200 copies, exactly the same. one version or two? 500 or 700 as number of copies?

Create two entries. This isn't always that clear-cut, though. For example, when you have a band that does 50 CD-Rs (but with no explicit limitation in mind) and then, a couple months later, burns another 50, I'd lean more towards one single entry for both. Subject for debate.


thanks. I did one, and came across another issue: If the exact date of the 2nd pressing is not known, do I leave the same as the 1st (though incorrect), or do I blank out day+month (which I think might "move" the 2nd pressing before the 1st)?
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:10 pm 
 

Responses to some policy questions:

NoKnownName wrote:
When adding a master copy, should I delete the tracklisting of the rerelease in the additional notes?

Yes, but add it as another version. Keep in mind that our goal is for as much complete information as possible, but at the same time the additional notes for the master copy will get copied over for all of its "children" (its reissues). If you want to save yourself the time of going through every version and removing parts of the additional notes, initially make the master notes consistent for all versions... and then add to those notes as necessary for each version. But, before you delete anything, always make sure you determine if any of it is still relevant. Sometimes MA is the only source for bands online, nowadays.

aloof wrote:
also, what to do wherever two albums have been repackaged as one?

If they are considered a reissue of both albums, then you may have to create a version of that album for both.

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
So aside from first day jitters and the like, two things I've noticed:

- When creating a new version of an album from CD to a format with sides, like Vinyl, there seems to be no way of assigning preexisting songs to a new side (and in fact, there doesn't appear to be any way whatsoever to add songs to a new side).
- I don't think it was part of the update, but there's still no option for adding multiple labels to a release, such as you find with splits

1. You can "drag and drop" the tracks and the side label. You just have to click where it shows the track number or where it says "side a, side b".
2. Yeah, that wasn't included this time around. It's a bit difficult to implement nicely... but it's being considered.

Obscurum wrote:
Derigin wrote:
@ Obscurum, that's something we may have to chat about among mods. The problem we might have to face is "what makes a separate digital release?"

On the subject: just my two cents, but I feel that so long as the product is a finished release (even a "finished" demo) with a concrete tracklisting and doesn't vary otherwise (much, if at all), even a MediaFire link should constitute a separate release. With Bandcamp-style multiple-format options, well, tricky-tricky. I could see how grouping them all into one would be concise, but handling it similar to Discogs would be overall more "complete".

This is a tough issue, but for the time being it might be best just to consider the form of distribution different from the fact it was released digitally. My own sentiments is that normally they'd be grouped into one, noting the form of distribution in the notes (bandcamp, iTunes, etc.). However, if the releases vary beyond the way they are distributed digitally (etc. bonus tracks), then they would warrant a separate version.

MutantClannfear wrote:
I changed the title because all pressings of the remastered version say "(Remastered Version)" on the album's spine. The album art itself is still the same. I don't know whether or not it should be included, with that in mind..

That's the correct way to do it. We go by what's on the title... but they likely don't warrant a separate listing. I'll talk to HB about it. My own feeling is that maybe we should make that feature manual, but we'll see.

J_Ason wrote:
Should the additional notes only contain information specific to the re-release?

Every release should contain additional notes with information that is consistent for all of them. If there's information that's specific to the re-release, then that information should only be added to the re-release. So you may have additional notes with information that is consistent with all albums, and some information that is unique for each reissue.

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
On another note how are we to handle something like this: discogs has an entry for this release (http://www.discogs.com/Antestor-Martyri ... se/2779653 ) but MA has it listed as a bootleg in the albums addition notes and the label is not listed on this site either.

There's two ways to view the way we handle bootlegs... and we hope it makes sense. We don't accept unofficial/bootleg albums in the discography of the band. So, if an unlicensed person decided to release a Bathory album with a mix of songs, and call it "Viking Metal God," that's not official. That's a bootleg. However, let's say you have official albums already in the discography of the band. An album like "Hammerheart" or "Blood Fire Death"? If there are unofficial/disputed versions of that album that exist out there, then feel free to add them as "other versions" of that official album. We're interested in cataloging all the versions of any legitimate, valid album.

Considering that, it's fine to add that unofficial version to the Antestor album, as Martyrium is a valid, official album.

Dembo wrote:
The person who does that can also write "Digipak" as description for the 2011 version, which I forgot to do. And, if we're suppose to do it, write "Remastered" in the 2004 description.

Important point about about the "version description" field. So far it looks like most folks have been using it for countries (though that should ONLY be referenced in cases where a country shows a difference among version (ex. on the same label)), for type of rerelease (ex. remaster, repress, reissue, etc), and the way it was packaged (gatefolk, digipack, picture disc, limited, etc.). So far that looks like a good start for that field.

aloof wrote:
two more questions:

I. a band releases a CD, limited to 500 copies, then they do a second pressing of, say 200 copies, exactly the same. one version or two? 500 or 700 as number of copies?

In addition to what Az just stated, sometimes it's best to create two entries when there is known time between represses - when they are, essentially, released at different points in time. If someone immediately made 200 more copies and sold them congruently with the original 500, it may not warrant its own entry. Again, as Az said, this is subject to debate and perhaps may end up being case-by-case. If ever in doubt, err on the side of caution.

aloof wrote:
thanks. I did one, and came across another issue: If the exact date of the 2nd pressing is not known, do I leave the same as the 1st (though incorrect), or do I blank out day+month (which I think might "move" the 2nd pressing before the 1st)?

If it was released in the same year, yes, just include the year (not the original date of release of the first pressing). But like mentioned earlier, add it only if you are certain that some time has passed.

From another thread:
Pagan_Death_Sceam wrote:
So, I'm starting on album releases to fit the new update, and I was left to wonder, for albums such as ones made by Chthonic, there is an Asian releases and English language release, should the title remain the same as the Taiwanese / English titles or should they now just be the Taiwanese titles since we can make an english version under the "other versions" section?

Yes, if there are separate language versions add them as separate versions and keep the one that is the original language as the parent/master.

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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:18 pm 
 

I'm getting a JSON formatting error whenever I try to load my collection tab now: http://www.metal-archives.com/users/MutantClannfear

EDIT: Is "first press" an acceptable entry for the version description field?

EDIT 2: Can you guys allow letters in the limitation field? I just tried adding "approximately 30" to the limitation field but it didn't work.


Last edited by MutantClannfear on Sat May 31, 2014 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Erosion of Humanity
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:23 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:
aloof wrote:
I. a band releases a CD, limited to 500 copies, then they do a second pressing of, say 200 copies, exactly the same. one version or two? 500 or 700 as number of copies?

Create two entries. This isn't always that clear-cut, though. For example, when you have a band that does 50 CD-Rs (but with no explicit limitation in mind) and then, a couple months later, burns another 50, I'd lean more towards one single entry for both. Subject for debate.


You should probably make this more known as I already found an issue with the way you want it done: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Be ... tion/88196


Derigin wrote:
Erosion of Humanity wrote:
On another note how are we to handle something like this: discogs has an entry for this release (http://www.discogs.com/Antestor-Martyri ... se/2779653 ) but MA has it listed as a bootleg in the albums addition notes and the label is not listed on this site either.

There's two ways to view the way we handle bootlegs... and we hope it makes sense. We don't accept unofficial/bootleg albums in the discography of the band. So, if a person decided to release a Bathory album with a mix of songs, and call it "Viking Metal God," that's not official. That's a bootleg. However, let's say you have official albums already in the discography of the band. An album like "Hammerheart" or "Blood Fire Death"? If there are unofficial/disputed versions of that album that exist out there, then feel free to add them as "other versions" of that official album. We're interested in cataloging all the versions of any legitimate, valid album.

Considering that, it's fine to add that unofficial version to the Antestor album, as Martyrium is a valid, official album.
[/quote]

Ok cool thank you.

Also just cause I haven't seen it answered yet, and I've seen other people posting about it, I'm having trouble with the side A/B on vinyls. It just doesn't seem to want to let me add things to side B. Just wondering if I'm doing it wrong or what?
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Derigin
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:28 pm 
 

@ Erosion, have you tried clicking on where it says "Side B" and dragging it somewhere into the middle of the tracklist?

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Erosion of Humanity
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:33 pm 
 

Ohhhh holy shit!! That's so damned simple that I didn't even think to do it :lol: I kept trying at add the tracks to side B but couldn't figure it out. Damn I feel dumb now, thanks Derigin!!
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aloof
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:34 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
@ Erosion, have you tried clicking on where it says "Side B" and dragging it somewhere into the middle of the tracklist?


wow! magic! thanks :)
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 1:35 pm 
 

Seems like a lot of people are missing the fact that you can click and drag like that. Report queue was/is ballooning up with similar instances.
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ClaymanOnFire
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Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:13 pm
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:10 pm 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
ClaymanOnFire wrote:
It would be helpful if I could see the various versions of an album when I'm just browsing a band's discography. Perhaps a "Version" column could be added in between the "Type" and "Year" columns? I would also be able to jump directly to version I'm interested in.

And hey, thanks for putting in the work for this feature :-D it'll be very helpful.


Well, this would really clutter discographies. In some cases, there can be 15 or more versions for a single album, but would make for really long and confusing listings, and few people would care to see all versions at once.

What about a drop-down menu? Doesn't seem like anyone else is interested in this though, so whatevs :-P
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Derigin
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:18 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
I'm getting a JSON formatting error whenever I try to load my collection tab now: http://www.metal-archives.com/users/MutantClannfear

EDIT: Is "first press" an acceptable entry for the version description field?

EDIT 2: Can you guys allow letters in the limitation field? I just tried adding "approximately 30" to the limitation field but it didn't work.

1. Hmm. I wonder if perhaps we should consider that in general, something like "master" or "first press" or "original." I'll talk it over with staff.

2. I'll talk to HB about it. Another solution is to use a tild (~), but that might involve including special characters. I'll ask him.

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
Ohhhh holy shit!! That's so damned simple that I didn't even think to do it :lol: I kept trying at add the tracks to side B but couldn't figure it out. Damn I feel dumb now, thanks Derigin!!

aloof wrote:
Derigin wrote:
@ Erosion, have you tried clicking on where it says "Side B" and dragging it somewhere into the middle of the tracklist?
wow! magic! thanks :)

No problem. You can also do it for songs, btw. You can move them around just the same. Just click the track number and move it.

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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:07 pm 
 

Another suggestion: you might want to make it so that people can't access the "Add another version" button from the main band page, because there's no way to see what versions have already been added from there. It could result in people unknowingly adding duplicate entries.

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false_icon
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:07 pm 
 

I don't know if it's linked to the server's problems, but searching in my collection is impossible : "Loading" never stops.
Navigating with the page number is still possible, though.

Derigin wrote:
(gatefolk, digipack, picture disc, limited, etc.)

:lol:
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autothrall
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:28 pm 
 

Just wanted to offer a quick thanks to the mods/users for implementing this feature, will be very helpful when specifying reviews for reissues, etc.
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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:34 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
I'm getting a JSON formatting error whenever I try to load my collection tab now: http://www.metal-archives.com/users/MutantClannfear


Fixed.

false_icon wrote:
I don't know if it's linked to the server's problems, but searching in my collection is impossible : "Loading" never stops.


Also fixed.

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Sciera
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:38 pm 
 

Should I set an unofficial version to seperate listing when it has a different title than the official one?
I tend to yes, but it seems a bit strange to have a bootleg listed directly on the band page.
I'm talking about this one: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ve ... unk/413540

Also, did I miss that, or is it still not possible to add several labels to one version?

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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:42 pm 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
MutantClannfear wrote:
I'm getting a JSON formatting error whenever I try to load my collection tab now: http://www.metal-archives.com/users/MutantClannfear


Fixed.

Cool, thanks! I realized I haven't said anything positive about this yet, so let me just say that I absolutely love the way this was integrated. :D Well done, guys!

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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:56 pm 
 

Sciera wrote:
Should I set an unofficial version to seperate listing when it has a different title than the official one?
I tend to yes, but it seems a bit strange to have a bootleg listed directly on the band page.
I'm talking about this one: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ve ... unk/413540

Also, did I miss that, or is it still not possible to add several labels to one version?


Not possible at this time. I listed unofficial pressings when I was doing Overkill, though.

Speaking of them, here is The Killing Kind, which had a separate release for Euro/US with different artworks, along with a few other things that might come up. Some of you can maybe use this as a template/reference point.

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ov ... lling_Kind
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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:03 pm 
 

Sciera wrote:
Should I set an unofficial version to seperate listing when it has a different title than the official one?
I tend to yes, but it seems a bit strange to have a bootleg listed directly on the band page.
I'm talking about this one: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ve ... unk/413540


Only when it makes sense, like when the name is completely different and people will have a hard time finding it otherwise. But also, you're right about bootlegs, they would be an exception and should never be listed in the main discography.

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false_icon
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:04 pm 
 

HellBlazer wrote:
false_icon wrote:
I don't know if it's linked to the server's problems, but searching in my collection is impossible : "Loading" never stops.


Also fixed.

Thanks, it works.

Also I messed up adding a new version for Depravity's Remasquerade demo/EP, and while the 2 versions both show ok in the other versions tab, they also both show in the band's discography... Don't know what to do to correct it.
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Derigin
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:06 pm 
 

autothrall wrote:
Just wanted to offer a quick thanks to the mods/users for implementing this feature, will be very helpful when specifying reviews for reissues, etc.

No problem. Much thanks ought to be extended to HellBlazer; he put in a lot of man hours on this feature... and still is putting in lots of hours trying to fix bugs as they pop up. We do ask that folks bare with us as everyone gets used to the new feature (and the server gets used to the change, too). There's lot of things we'll have to make policies/procedures for, and we expect there's going to be quite a few hiccups and inconsistencies to begin with.

Sciera wrote:
Should I set an unofficial version to seperate listing when it has a different title than the official one?
I tend to yes, but it seems a bit strange to have a bootleg listed directly on the band page.
I'm talking about this one: http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ve ... unk/413540

Also, did I miss that, or is it still not possible to add several labels to one version?

I was talking to HB about this last night. We'd prefer that no unofficial/disputed versions show up in the main discography of the band. So please don't add unofficial/disputed versions as separately listed items in the discography. Do that only for official versions that have changed titles. Besides, bootlegs are unfortunately known for making ridiculous title errors, and those really shouldn't be listed on the main discography separately anyway (ex. Hammerheart = Hammer Heart = Hammar Haart).

So, tl;dr, keep official versions in the discography only; unofficial/disputed versions are OK to list as other versions.

EDIT: Ah, I see HB got to it before me! :P

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MutantClannfear
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:17 pm 
 

Another bug to report: http://www.metal-archives.com/users/MutantClannfear

Go to my collection, CTRL+F "Kardashev" or "Corpsessed" and look at the version info. It seems that when you add a new version, and the year of release is the same as the parent release, it can't be displayed from the collection page.

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HellBlazer
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:45 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Another bug to report: http://www.metal-archives.com/users/MutantClannfear

Go to my collection, CTRL+F "Kardashev" or "Corpsessed" and look at the version info. It seems that when you add a new version, and the year of release is the same as the parent release, it can't be displayed from the collection page.


Fixed.

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Azmodes
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:47 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
MutantClannfear wrote:
EDIT 2: Can you guys allow letters in the limitation field? I just tried adding "approximately 30" to the limitation field but it didn't work.


2. I'll talk to HB about it. Another solution is to use a tild (~), but that might involve including special characters. I'll ask him.

Hmmm, my thoughts were more like, if you don't know the exact number, explain in the add. notes. Not sure if we should abuse the field with guesses and hedged numbers.
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Derigin
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:07 pm 
 

Important note added to the OP:

Quote:
EDIT3: Two important notes. They're mentioned in the rules, but I just want to reiterate it here, too. Firstly, please keep in mind that the versions you add must be complete; unfinished, incomplete, or test versions should not be added. Likewise, they have to have been released. A version only intended as a promo for labels, and never released publicly, shouldn't be added either. This is definitely true for test pressings, too. Secondly, please remember that we don't want separate versions for aesthetic differences (vinyl color, for example). If it's the same version with very minor differences in color or catalogue number, it is not necessary to create separate versions. Please just amalgamate them into one. This is something we differ with Discogs on!

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Insidiae
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:57 pm
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:36 pm 
 

Just noticed all the tracks are automatically assumed to Side A.

I tried dragging like indicated on this topic but there's nothing "draggable". Is this rank-related or do I need glasses?

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aloof
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:45 pm 
 

you have to select format: vinyl first
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Insidiae
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:52 pm 
 

Oh, this just works when adding another version, not when updating one.

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Derigin
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:53 pm 
 

All you should have to do is click where it says "Side B" and drag it into the middle of the tracklist.

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Insidiae
Mallcore Kid

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:05 pm 
 

I really can't edit/access that field. I tried adding adding another version, only updating that field with that method and I ended up duplicating the release.
Please delete http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/So ... st!/413806

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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:08 pm 
 

Removed the dupe...
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Sciera
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:44 am
Posts: 179
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:21 pm 
 

Thanks for that reply, HellBlazer and Derigin, I've corrected it.

I suppose if I don't know the release year it's better to not add a new version but to leave it to someone who has that infos?
Or should it be possible to also add versions without specifying the year?

And if I don't know which tracks belong onto which side of the tape/LP? Should I just leave all on the A side, or should such versions also be only added by someone who knows which track is on which side?

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Erosion of Humanity
Destroyer of the Gods

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:12 pm
Posts: 5806
Location: Chicago
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 6:35 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
Important note added to the OP:

Quote:
EDIT3: Two important notes. They're mentioned in the rules, but I just want to reiterate it here, too. Firstly, please keep in mind that the versions you add must be complete; unfinished, incomplete, or test versions should not be added. Likewise, they have to have been released. A version only intended as a promo for labels, and never released publicly, shouldn't be added either. This is definitely true for test pressings, too. Secondly, please remember that we don't want separate versions for aesthetic differences (vinyl color, for example). If it's the same version with very minor differences in color or catalogue number, it is not necessary to create separate versions. Please just amalgamate them into one. This is something we differ with Discogs on!



Ok good to know. But that begs the question then, what makes a release relevant enough to be added? Take for instance some of the stuff I've done today (with Extol for example if you need to see a visual) are we to add different cd version for American and European labels where the only difference is that on is American and the other is not? Another example would be promos, like if a label puts out a cardboard sleeve promo that has the exact same content musically but just comes in a sleeve? Yet another would be say one release is special edition but the only difference is album art or something miniscule like that do we add it or not?

I'm not trying to be pesky here I just have the feeling that a lot of people, myself included, have been adding additional releases for the minor changes and I don't want to keep doing it wrong and have it all be for not, have someone else come through to fix it, and possibly get myself ban hammered. Obviously that's a bit over the top but I do see problems arising with different people interpreting what's a valid difference and what isn't.
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HellBlazer
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 2045
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:14 pm 
 

Ogerz001 wrote:
so I went to add the tyrants blood vinyl but was unable to change the label or even save as is. As it asked for the check box for Independent but it was no where to be found. point system most likely (>400)


OK, I managed to reproduce this bug after all. It should work now.

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HellBlazer
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 6:48 am
Posts: 2045
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:25 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
EDIT: Adding the character ' " ' to the version description field erases everything after it. Kind of problematic when trying to clarify that a vinyl release is a 7"...


Oh, this was fixed earlier too.

Azmodes wrote:
You can just add the additional tracks, if there are any? I don't see why we would need another field for stating the obvious.


I think he means just listing the number of tracks on the versions tab, not like have a specific field for it. This would make sense, though that table is getting really crowded already... we'll see.

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Insidiae
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:57 pm
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:52 pm 
 

Quote:
Only members with a rank of Veteran or higher can update existing data, and with limits (see updates section).


Anyone with less than 1000 points:
»when trying to fill the new fields on the current version
»choosing vinyl/cassette
*automatically aggregate all tracks on Side A*
»needing to fill a report after to correct this

Should a special permission on this case should be added to the mere mortals?

-----//-----

I filled a re-release, saved, took a while to perform the action, gives a message error saying a few fields should be completed when they were already, clicked save again, action successful. Problem is, now there is a 3rd version which gives 404 when accessed: http://www.metal-archives.com/release/a ... rent/21989

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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
Posts: 785
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:42 pm 
 

Imho, considering a Mediafire download and a Bandcamp download separate editions would be like creating physical editions per distros selling them. Really, it's just a different server providing the digital download. That is, of course, supposing the content is the same - if there's something truly different included, then it could consitute as a separate digital edition.

Also, regarding version descriptions etc. - imo it'd be a very good guideline to try to keep things simple and to avoid redundancy.

Also, if you make errors when using the new features (or old features, why not), please correct them yourself (if you can), or report them. It's perfectly understandable that mistakes happen, even the mods do their share of oopsies. However, leaving the errors there and hoping that no one notices (or something?) isn't a good way to handle it, ever.


MutantClannfear wrote:
I changed the title because all pressings of the remastered version say "(Remastered Version)" on the album's spine. The album art itself is still the same. I don't know whether or not it should be included, with that in mind.

Imo it's clearer to go with "Elvenefris" as release title and "Remastered" in version description. I'm looking at this practically - surely no one thinks that the album has been renamed here.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5691
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 9:46 pm 
 

Erosion of Humanity wrote:
Ok good to know. But that begs the question then, what makes a release relevant enough to be added? Take for instance some of the stuff I've done today (with Extol for example if you need to see a visual) are we to add different cd version for American and European labels where the only difference is that on is American and the other is not? Another example would be promos, like if a label puts out a cardboard sleeve promo that has the exact same content musically but just comes in a sleeve? Yet another would be say one release is special edition but the only difference is album art or something miniscule like that do we add it or not?

I'm not trying to be pesky here I just have the feeling that a lot of people, myself included, have been adding additional releases for the minor changes and I don't want to keep doing it wrong and have it all be for not, have someone else come through to fix it, and possibly get myself ban hammered. Obviously that's a bit over the top but I do see problems arising with different people interpreting what's a valid difference and what isn't.

Well, first, you wont be banned. This is a learning process for all of us, and we know that there'll be some challenges initially. Rome wasn't built in a day... it's doubtful this new feature would come out perfect on its release. In some ways, and this is a complete aside, it's like reliving the early days of this encyclopedia in miniature again. Imagine adding bands and albums and all that jazz initially, and not really having definitive parameters, past precedence, or elder fellows to guide you. That's what you can expect from this feature to begin with; we're going to try to hammer out ways of doing things and perhaps - over time and with the process of gentrification - we'll get used to handling "other versions" with ease and clarity. So, no, we wont ban you. And, also no, we don't want your work to be a waste. In fact, we want your input on this... because you're the ones who are using it, and will help define its future use from this point on. You're pioneers. Embrace it.

To answer your first question, what we want to discourage is the creation of unnecessary duplicates based on minor, minuscule issues. A series of versions that are identical in every way, except for each having a different color of vinyl really shouldn't require multiple separate entries. Such aesthetic issues like that really don't warrant it. The same is true if all albums are nearly identical except for a minor variation in the catalog number. Same label, same everything else, just a 1 instead of a 2. That's almost too minor. It becomes less certain when dealing with nearly identical releases that vary solely on the region or country that the versions are published in. In those cases, you can amalgamate the versions and nothing is lost... so long as they are practically the same. That last point is probably the most important. Think about this as reasonably as possible. If the album has many variations, or significant variations that help in telling them apart - like different labels for example - then it would be worth it to create separate versions. For the time being, if you're uncertain and worry too much about wasting your time, just add the obvious versions for now and let us know about some of the less obvious ones. At least that way we can discuss how it would fit.

As far as the promo goes, just be careful there. As with all the albums on our site, we expect them to be valid. With the exception of allowing unofficial/disputed versions, we require that all versions fit the way we view valid albums: complete and released as well as distributed. If the promo is label only, or was not publicly released, or is an unfinished version of the album... it wouldn't be valid anyway. If it is still valid, then you have to ask yourself if a cardboard sleeve is enough of a variation from other versions to warrant a separate entry. I would consider that likely acceptable. Same with a change in album art.

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