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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 4338
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:31 am 
 

StryckenFromHistory wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
his anarchism (which the left mistook for the former libertarianism)
lol


I mean, 95% of critiques of libertarianism from the left-wing spectrum (it will be like Somalia! privatized armies! no rules at all!) pretty much exclusively apply to Rothbard, who explicitly identified as an anarcho-capitalist. If you were to try to explain things like the libertarian cases for carbon taxation or a social safety net (and yes, they exist and have existed for a while) to these critics they wouldn't know where to start, because they have no frame of reference. It's like trying to explain to a Republican that government-provided healthcare started as a conservative reactionary attempt at preventing socialism; it summons accusations of historical revisionism when it doesn't elicit outright laughter.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 4338
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:45 am 
 

If only these editors worked for Fox & Friends, then Trump might get a little reality injected into his morning "executive time."

Spoiler: show
Image
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:29 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
What, has the Trump administration effectively killed off Libertarianism? Every single friend of mine who used to be a Libertarian is now a Pepe avatar chud who screams FAKE NEWS at anything that doesn't conform exactly to his worldview.


Libertarianism as Hayek and Friedman understood it has been dead for decades. Rothbard shot it in the head, wore its language as a thin skin for his anarchism (which the left mistook for the former libertarianism), and right populists ate the leftovers. The Reasons and Catos of the world are essentially ignored, and the term "libertarian" has become essentially meaningless.


Not to overlook that Libertarians repeatedly championed certain Republicans as their own, like Ron and Rand Paul, ignoring that Rand Paul pretty much just towed the line of the Republican party in nearly anything he did. On top of taking their "limited government" views to Ayn Randian extremes and essentially making their views on government equivalent to full-blown anarchy. Guns are more valuable than healthcare, and seemingly inspired by Ron Paul himself, rampant distrust of the government meant they filled the gaps with rampaging conspiracy theories, because there's no way the government is ever right you guys, so clearly 420InternetWarrior666 is your most trustworthy source on information. They're basically Republicans with an extra layer of paranoia who just want pot legalized.

I'd read an interesting breakdown a few years ago how 9/11 "truthers" (dipshit conspiracy theorists) largely vanished after Bush Jr was out of office, because a lot of it had been driven by a loathing and distrust for Bush. Under the Obama years, the few remaining hardline 9/11 conspiracy theorists were largely self-described Libertarians. They also overwhelmingly don't believe in global warming or climate change for some reason, so that's not helping their cause. The movement has become a joke that wallows in fear and instead of offering solutions, they just post memes.
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schizoid
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 1546
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:52 am 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:

I'd read an interesting breakdown a few years ago how 9/11 "truthers" (dipshit conspiracy theorists) largely vanished after Bush Jr was out of office, because a lot of it had been driven by a loathing and distrust for Bush. Under the Obama years, the few remaining hardline 9/11 conspiracy theorists were largely self-described Libertarians. They also overwhelmingly don't believe in global warming or climate change for some reason, so that's not helping their cause. The movement has become a joke that wallows in fear and instead of offering solutions, they just post memes.


The "movement" I reckon has just become exhausted at being repeatedly shout down by denialists like yourself. I mean, it's now 17 years, its clear at this point nothing of value will be declassified. I saw this recently which puts it all pretty succinctly, I know you wont watch it anyway.

Youtube: show


When someone has lived through so many lies, naturally some will start to question everything, whether it has any veracity or not. It's the establishment's own making, and probably by design. I'm sure you're no stranger to the documentaries of Adam Curtis,for example. And for the record, I didn't muddy the waters, you did, with your reductionist bullshit.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:16 am 
 

schizoid wrote:
Resident_Hazard wrote:

I'd read an interesting breakdown a few years ago how 9/11 "truthers" (dipshit conspiracy theorists) largely vanished after Bush Jr was out of office, because a lot of it had been driven by a loathing and distrust for Bush. Under the Obama years, the few remaining hardline 9/11 conspiracy theorists were largely self-described Libertarians. They also overwhelmingly don't believe in global warming or climate change for some reason, so that's not helping their cause. The movement has become a joke that wallows in fear and instead of offering solutions, they just post memes.


The "movement" I reckon has just become exhausted at being repeatedly shout down by denialists like yourself. I mean, it's now 17 years, its clear at this point nothing of value will be declassified. I saw this recently which puts it all pretty succinctly, I know you wont watch it anyway.

Youtube: show


When someone has lived through so many lies, naturally some will start to question everything, whether it has any veracity or not. It's the establishment's own making, and probably by design. I'm sure you're no stranger to the documentaries of Adam Curtis,for example. And for the record, I didn't muddy the waters, you did, with your reductionist bullshit.


Nice attempt to call me a "denialist" for being busy trusting facts, engineers, and reality instead of JoeNobody from somewhere on the internet. I've seen enough 9/11 conspiracy bullshit. The only conspiracy there was performed by Osama Bin Laden and the group of people he worked with, trained, and plotted with to attack the United States. If that wasn't enough of a conspiracy for you, you're effectively a moron. Come the fuck on. Be smarter.

Here's some SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING breakdowns of the idiot conspiracy theories.
Youtube: show


I know you won't watch it, because you're a denialist--of reality.
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Last edited by Resident_Hazard on Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 11:20 am 
 

Here's a pretty good breakdown of Trump selling out the United States and, indeed, the entire Western Russia-free world to Putin.

Youtube: show


It's about 19 minutes long.
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Sick6Six
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 1596
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:02 pm 
 

guys calm down, he meant to say "wouldn't" instead of "would" in a sentence that would have made even less sense than the way he said it the first time. It's totally fine.

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Stronthor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 5:56 pm 
 

This is probably the closest I'll ever get to feeling sorry for the people that voted for this guy.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 12511
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:49 pm 
 

This derail about 9/11 conspiracy theory bullshit stops now. Period.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 4338
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:59 am 
 

In which Trump pulls a "why die for Danzig" for Montenegro. Like, an almost perfect unwitting recreation of it, right down to the insinuation they might intentionally start a world war to drag other countries into it.

Sick6Six wrote:
guys calm down, he meant to say "wouldn't" instead of "would" in a sentence that would have made even less sense than the way he said it the first time. It's totally fine.


I like how he completely undermined the entire premise of that cleanup presser by tacking on "Could have been other people also" to his carefully prepared remarks. He's completely undisciplined.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4519
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:37 am 
 

Trump is like the guy in Super Size Me except instead of McDonald's for a month it's FOX News for the better part of a septuagenarian's life. Remember when people were flipping shit when Sarah Palin revealed she had no idea what The Fed was? Fun times.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:33 am 
 

Stronthor wrote:
This is probably the closest I'll ever get to feeling sorry for the people that voted for this guy.


Well, to be fair, when someone takes advantage of people, we don't blame the victims. And one thing Trump excels at is being a conman, and he pulled a long con with horrifying success. It's easy to say, "yeah, they should've fucking known better," but so should victims of televangelists and conspiracy theorists and alternative medicine practitioners. People are easily led and conned.

And what we're seeing right now may well be Putin's long con, if this KGB defector (from about 20 years or more ago) illustrates:

Youtube: show


Tell me that shit doesn't feel a bit creepy and a little on the nose right now.
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Stronthor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:03 am 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
Stronthor wrote:
This is probably the closest I'll ever get to feeling sorry for the people that voted for this guy.


Well, to be fair, when someone takes advantage of people, we don't blame the victims. And one thing Trump excels at is being a conman, and he pulled a long con with horrifying success. It's easy to say, "yeah, they should've fucking known better," but so should victims of televangelists and conspiracy theorists and alternative medicine practitioners. People are easily led and conned.


In pretty much all cases I would agree on not blaming the victim, but not when it comes to Trump. Using the term conman feels like giving him way too much credit. In fact, I'm actually hesitant to call the people that voted for him victims. He would have been an excellent conman if he had portrayed himself as a competent politician during his election campaign, only to throw it straight out the window the moment he took office. That is most definitely not the case here. Nobody has been mislead as to what kind of president Trump would be, he's been 100% upfront and honest as to what kind of president he would be. From the second his campaign kicked off, he has made not even the slightest effort to hide the fact that he's an egotistical, childish, bigoted, unprofessional cunt that is totally unfit for the job. People still chose to back him, and they got exactly what they voted for.

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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3732
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:57 am 
 

Well, A portion of his voters liked him because they thought that egotistical, childish, bigoted, unprofessional cunt was going to "drain the swamp". That was the con. I'm not absolving those Trump voters though. They should have known better.

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Stronthor
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 209
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:18 am 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Well, A portion of his voters liked him because they thought that egotistical, childish, bigoted, unprofessional cunt was going to "drain the swamp". That was the con. I'm not absolving those Trump voters though. They should have known better.


I will concede the "drain the swamp" thing will probably be the closest thing to a con here. But as you said, those who voted Trump still should have known better. If you want someone this blatantly unfit for the job to be your president because of a single catchphrase while consciously ignoring everything else, you're literally dumber than the most recent shit I've taken. I just can not muster up any kind of sympathy for that.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 11128
Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:55 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
I like how he completely undermined the entire premise of that cleanup presser by tacking on "Could have been other people also" to his carefully prepared remarks. He's completely undisciplined.


There are a lot of people, though. A lot of people.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 4011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:05 pm 
 

Stronthor wrote:
Resident_Hazard wrote:

Spoiler: show
Well, to be fair, when someone takes advantage of people, we don't blame the victims. And one thing Trump excels at is being a conman, and he pulled a long con with horrifying success. It's easy to say, "yeah, they should've fucking known better," but so should victims of televangelists and conspiracy theorists and alternative medicine practitioners. People are easily led and conned.


In pretty much all cases I would agree on not blaming the victim, but not when it comes to Trump. Using the term conman feels like giving him way too much credit. In fact, I'm actually hesitant to call the people that voted for him victims. He would have been an excellent conman if he had portrayed himself as a competent politician during his election campaign, only to throw it straight out the window the moment he took office. That is most definitely not the case here. Nobody has been mislead as to what kind of president Trump would be, he's been 100% upfront and honest as to what kind of president he would be. From the second his campaign kicked off, he has made not even the slightest effort to hide the fact that he's an egotistical, childish, bigoted, unprofessional cunt that is totally unfit for the job. People still chose to back him, and they got exactly what they voted for.


Trump got some voters who had also voted for Obama, and those were the people conned. His con of "successful businessman and outsider the government needs" played better with a lot of people than we may feel comfortable admitting. The bigots he got saw exactly what we see, but they wanted a bigot in office to reduce rights and opportunities. I know noting his success as a conman feels like giving him too much credit, but under-estimating him is one of the things that put him in office. Not to go down this road again, but a lot of his voters were conned and a lot are actually pure shit. Those pure shit people are still supporting him. You see them championing his statements regardless of the "would, wouldn't" flipflop. But the conned people are getting sick of his shit. And the Democrats need to cater to those crowds this time around.

And to be fair, Trump is a very successful conman. He conned banks out of billions of dollars on failed casinos, and he walked away a free man with money in his pockets. Banks caught onto his bullshit, so his next con was Trump University, where he conned regular people out of their money, and people got fucked and he walked away a free man with money in his pockets. His next con was convincing people he was a successful rich businessman, and he'd written books about it. People are easily led and easily conned when you play on their weaknesses, which Trump has been very good at. He convinced nearly half a country seeing great success that it was the worst it's ever been. He convinced nearly half a country with record low crime that it was higher than ever. He pulled literally from Hitler's playbook and blamed minorities, and desperate people ate it up. And frankly, this falls all too horribly in line with the video I posted of the Russian KGB operative describing how Russia works against America from within.

Trump is clearly a Putin puppet, and part of a longer con. But he is a successful conman in his own right. Dismissing that or thinking we're giving him too much credit is a great way to watch him and his cronies continue making things worse in 2018 and 2020. Nobody defeats a foe by underestimating them.

I try to avoid getting too deep into the "ha ha fuckers, you voted for this, wallow in it" because a lot of people voted for him expecting different (for whatever reason), and more importantly, more people didn't vote for this, but are getting dragged anyway. If things are going to turn around, those that made a mistake cannot be berated to the point that they go right back to him. It just creates bigger divisions, and frankly, that's what works for Trump.

Schadenfreude is fun for a while, but we need to get past it to start fixing this shit and fighting off a Republican party that is increasingly and obviously anti-American and treasonous.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 840
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:48 pm 
 

A Princeton philosophy professor named Harry Frankfurt once wrote a kind of treatise that should be required reading in the age of Trump. It is called "On Bullshit".

In it, he describes what bullshit is exactly, what the difference is between a liar and a bullshitter, and how bullshit works. Trump is a practiced, some would say a professional, bullshitter. The whole concept fits him to a T.

A liar at least knows what the truth is. He has to understand that it exists, and what the context around it is. It requires a certain level of understanding of the situation. A bullshitter though doesn't even care what is true or not. Context doesn't matter because a bullshitter will just invent that too. A bullshitter is, fundamentally, stupid and lazy.

So we get Trump when we combine class-A bullshit with a narcissist whose entire adult life has revolved around feeding his own ego. That's all he is and all he's even been. Giving him credit for anything, literally anything, beyond that is giving him too much.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 12511
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 7:54 pm 
 

Stronthor wrote:
In pretty much all cases I would agree on not blaming the victim, but not when it comes to Trump. Using the term conman feels like giving him way too much credit. In fact, I'm actually hesitant to call the people that voted for him victims. He would have been an excellent conman if he had portrayed himself as a competent politician during his election campaign, only to throw it straight out the window the moment he took office. That is most definitely not the case here. Nobody has been mislead as to what kind of president Trump would be, he's been 100% upfront and honest as to what kind of president he would be. From the second his campaign kicked off, he has made not even the slightest effort to hide the fact that he's an egotistical, childish, bigoted, unprofessional cunt that is totally unfit for the job. People still chose to back him, and they got exactly what they voted for.

Fully agreed with you. I have zero sympathy or pity for his voters who felt "conned".
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 8846
Location: Elgin, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:26 pm 
 

The whole "they got conned" narrative is also pretty strongly undercut by the fact that every single time some lazy reporter goes on a Cletus Safari to ask Real Americans what they think of Trump now that he's doomed Pigsknuckle, Tennessee to eternal economic destitution, they invariably shake their pom poms and spout more insane fascist/racist bullshit. Yeah sure there were some old people who were just scared and voted for the guy promising to bolster the country's strength against whatever they were afraid of or just went for the comfort food of always voting for whoever has an R next to their name, but at some point the deluded bootlickers stop becoming a statistical anomaly and you have to swallow the hard pill that most Trump voters were angry racist idiots who were just waiting for another angry racist idiot to get enough momentum to propel himself into the White House. Last time I checked he's sitting at some absurdly high approval rating among Republicans that rivals or surpasses Bush right after 9/11 or Reagan in his heyday. Nobody got conned, this is exactly what they wanted, and this screaming rollercoaster ride down Fuck Everything Avenue is exactly what they have always been hoping for.
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Face_your_fear_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
Posts: 225
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:00 pm 
 

Right.

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:04 pm 
 

Fuck Everything Avenue is my favorite forgotten screamo band.


Trump discussed extraditing an American diplomat (the former ambassador to Russia) in his little pow wow with Putin. This is a break with a norm that's 500 years old if we're going by modern diplomacy.

Trump's own chief of staff privately told Congress to rebuke Trump since he apparently doesn't listen to anyone in the White House.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Face_your_fear_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
Posts: 225
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:09 pm 
 

Right.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 12511
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:38 pm 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/18/worl ... ling-.html

Quote:
Two weeks before his inauguration, Donald J. Trump was shown highly classified intelligence indicating that President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia had personally ordered complex cyberattacks to sway the 2016 American election.

The evidence included texts and emails from Russian military officers and information gleaned from a top-secret source close to Mr. Putin, who had described to the C.I.A. how the Kremlin decided to execute its campaign of hacking and disinformation.

Mr. Trump sounded grudgingly convinced, according to several people who attended the intelligence briefing. But ever since, Mr. Trump has tried to cloud the very clear findings that he received on Jan. 6, 2017, which his own intelligence leaders have unanimously endorsed.


Ahhhh hahahahahahaha
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Face_your_fear_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 10:48 pm 
 

Right.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 12511
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:05 pm 
 

Oh, also

White House says Trump to discuss allowing Russia to question US citizens

Quote:
White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said Wednesday that President Trump will discuss allowing Russian investigators to come to the United States to question U.S. citizens, including a former American ambassador to Russia.

Sanders said during a White House press briefing that Trump is “gonna meet with his team” to talk about the potential for Russian officials to question U.S. citizens like Michael McFaul, who was ambassador to Russia from January 2012 to February 2014.

“There was some conversation about it, but there wasn’t a commitment made on behalf of the United States,” Sanders said. “The president will work with his team and we’ll let you know if there’s an announcement on that front.”


H...how is the answer to "will the US government let Russia interrogate US citizens" question not a resounding "Fuck no"? Howwww

Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Right.

What are you doing
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Face_your_fear_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:30 pm 
 

Yeah, I see you're point. I think. Good homework on you. Keep it up.

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:56 pm 
 

Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Yeah, I see you're point. I think. Good homework on you. Keep it up.

You know, maybe not acting like a smarmy arse would be the best course of action. Dunno. Usually works, at least in my experience.
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Face_your_fear_79
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:13 am 
 

I wasn't trying to be a arse I was answering the statement the best I could. No wrong did I try to make.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:47 am 
 

Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Yeah, I see you're point. I think. Good homework on you. Keep it up.

your
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 12511
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:49 am 
 

Jill Stein’s Recount Cash Pays for Her Russia Legal Defense

Quote:
Money that Jill Stein raised to recount votes in 2016 swing states is being used by her campaign to pay for legal bills stemming from the investigation of Russian interference in the last presidential election.


:lol: :facepalm: This clown show never ends
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Face_your_fear_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
Posts: 225
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:30 am 
 

Interesting article. Things keep getting worse. Article upon article of the same heading. Wow?

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 4338
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:13 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
H...how is the answer to "will the US government let Russia interrogate US citizens" question not a resounding "Fuck no"? Howwww


It's considerably worse than that because that isn't even what they're talking about---as I said above, it's an extradition request. I mean, they didn't use the word "extradite" but the conversation occurred in the context of a US extradition request for the GRU officers Mueller just indicted, so I don't know how else to interpret it. "Let's invite some Russians over to interrogate someone on US soil" would make even less sense.



Superlatives like "worst week in Trump's presidency" or "lowest point in any presidency" don't really convey the magnitude of what's occurred in the last 96 hours.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:56 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
H...how is the answer to "will the US government let Russia interrogate US citizens" question not a resounding "Fuck no"? Howwww


It's considerably worse than that because that isn't even what they're talking about---as I said above, it's an extradition request. I mean, they didn't use the word "extradite" but the conversation occurred in the context of a US extradition request for the GRU officers Mueller just indicted, so I don't know how else to interpret it. "Let's invite some Russians over to interrogate someone on US soil" would make even less sense.

Superlatives like "worst week in Trump's presidency" or "lowest point in any presidency" don't really convey the magnitude of what's occurred in the last 96 hours.


Oh... There's more.

A Russian spy with deep ties to the NRA was arrested--and she'd apparently also been in the White House and used offers of sexual favors to further her goals, just to add to the salaciousness of it all. She's been ordered held without bond for being an extreme flight risk.

Edit: I missed the date. If anything, this only shows how the NRA has been able to successfully hide how Russian they've become.
Spoiler: show
To top it all off, Congress, for no discernible reason, passed more protection for non-profits like the NRA to hide where their money came from.


It's safe to say the Republican party is deeply and obviously anti-American and anti-Freedom at this point.
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Last edited by Resident_Hazard on Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mjollnir
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:49 pm 
 

Check your NRA link. It directs you to an article from 2005. ;)
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into_the_pit
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:02 pm 
 

GTog wrote:
A Princeton philosophy professor named Harry Frankfurt once wrote a kind of treatise that should be required reading in the age of Trump. It is called "On Bullshit".

In it, he describes what bullshit is exactly, what the difference is between a liar and a bullshitter, and how bullshit works. Trump is a practiced, some would say a professional, bullshitter. The whole concept fits him to a T.

A liar at least knows what the truth is. He has to understand that it exists, and what the context around it is. It requires a certain level of understanding of the situation. A bullshitter though doesn't even care what is true or not. Context doesn't matter because a bullshitter will just invent that too. A bullshitter is, fundamentally, stupid and lazy.

So we get Trump when we combine class-A bullshit with a narcissist whose entire adult life has revolved around feeding his own ego. That's all he is and all he's even been. Giving him credit for anything, literally anything, beyond that is giving him too much.


totally spot-on! highly recommended reading.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:12 pm 
 

mjollnir wrote:
Check your NRA link. It directs you to an article from 2005. ;)


Whoops, good catch. I thought the timing seemed a little off, but didn't think to check the date. My bad.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:09 am 
 

I was discussing with a co-worker how Trump can still have such high approval ratings among his base in the face of such endless corruption, lying, stupidity, buffoonery, and bald-faced treason. The cult analogy gets thrown around, but I realized a reason why the cult analogy might be the only good explanation.

Republicans are natural followers, natural sheep, if you will. They take pride in things like blind faith, blind loyalty, and being church-goers. They are drawn to loud-mouthed authoritarians because that is what they have been raised and primed for. This is why reasoning with them doesn't work. This is why Trump's constant follies don't harm their blind devotion. This is very much a cult and rooted in religion and religious thinking.

I'm sure others have realized this, but it donned on me today how Christianity destroys people's minds to a point where this is acceptable. We keep looking at Trump and wondering "how the fuck can Christians worship this man? He's nothing that their religion teaches." Except that he's everything the religion actually is. Authoritarian, terrifying, evil, murderous, and corrupt. Christian god is well-known as a jealous, petty, demanding creature. It has no consistency, rules frequently contradict, it has abhorrent concepts passed off as "morality." Trump is the human equivalent of the Christian deity. He is the authoritarian they have been led to seek. He uses the buzzwords they have been trained to follow.

And it dons on me as well that Russia probably needs to be met with a full-on, unified assault from the free world. They need to be stopped. But they have nukes and the only thing preventing them from using those nukes used to be the United States. And with Trump under Putin's thumb, that threat is effectively silenced. Russia has free reign and Europe and the rest of the free world may well be in the most dangerous point in their history. This might sound like it's going too far or it's hyperbole, but I also never expected to see an American president grovel to the Russian president and turn against his own country and law enforcement agencies.
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DrummingEdge133
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:45 pm 
 

You're right Resident_Hazard. My parents are a test case of the above. Especially my Mom, who voted for Trump and still supports him. Probably thinks he has done no wrong. She flirted with the idea that he was chosen by god to lead America. An imbecilic evil narcissist, but that doesn't matter because god can choose an imperfect vessel.

Yet this is the same person who 10 years ago also flirted with the idea that Obama may very well be the anti-christ predicted in the Bible.

What you've described is a way to make some sense out of that type of person. It doesn't make it any less scary this is where we find ourselves.
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lost_wanderer
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:23 pm 
 

Some people of those people have such an irrational hatred and fear of ''liberals'' that they would let the USA desintegrate itself as long as it can hurt some of them. They tend to hate what they consider weak like handicaps, people with mental problems, lgbts, women etc, but in the same time are afraid of everything and want more guns, prisons, walls etc.
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