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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:28 pm 
 

Chappelle is a funny guy who has these inexplicably weird fixations on LGBT issues. It's a shame the discourse is as stunted as it is. There's obviously still a long way to go for trans people in particular to get respect in society.
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CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:22 am 
 

I watched it and enjoyed it.
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SuperVeji4
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Posts: 738
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:34 pm 
 

I really don't understand how someone can watch that Chappelle special and actually walk away with the conclusion that the man hates transgender individuals (especially with the final segment involving Daphne). Which leads me to think that many of these detractors didn't even watch the special in it's entirety (as is usually the case); or they did watch the entire thing but they want it taken down anyways because if anyone looked bad in that special it would be the LGBTQ Community themselves for how they treated Daphne after coming out in support for Chappelle (which would also not be too far fetched to assume that their treatment may have contributed to her eventual fate).

That being said, I do have to say that there is a certain aspect of Chappelle that I didn't like in these last few specials. I've been following him since I was a kid, and something that I think is different now is how obsessed, jaded, and downright angry he seems to be at times. I mean, it's been 15 fucking years since the Chappelle Show was taken off air, and he was recently properly compensated monetarily for it, and he still feels the need to bring it up? When it comes to the trans jokes I found them mostly fine, but I agree with Empyreal that it does seem like he has this strange fixation over it. And I must confess I kind of groaned when he seemed to engage in a sort-of Oppression Olympics with the Trans Community (the whole "stop punching down on my people" thing). The other thing I found truly disagreeable is when it seemed like he was flirting with the idea that the trans issue is being used as a kind of semantic weapon against the black community when it comes to their battle against white supremacy. I mean, wow, that's some deranged Umar Johnson shit.

Other than that, I still enjoyed it. It made me laugh. It's not evil. And though he does say things that I found disagreeable, it most certainly was not hateful or transphobic.

wraithlike wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the right spot for discussing this, but Dave Chappelle's new special feels like it's opened another floodgate for rampant casual transphobia. A lot of people crying about how the LGBTQ wants to cancel everybody as a result; meanwhile, the black trans employee at netflix who started a protest against it was fucking fired:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/16/media/ne ... index.html

I don't get it. When an employee leaks private confidential information from their company, you're seriously surprised that the company would then fire that employee for doing such a thing?

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:54 pm 
 

I don't know the guy in person and he seems pretty secretive about doing many interviews - at least not the long-form article types of things I usually read a lot. So I dunno if he's actually transphobic or what. Probably he doesn't *hate* any group - it's pretty rare to find real active hatred like that. Bigotry comes in all kinds of shades and it isn't only screaming slurs and outright disgust.

In his case, most of his LGBT jokes I took as jokes for a long time, albeit not usually very brilliant ones and not what I watched his stuff for. Most of the time on these recent specials he had enough other stuff he talked about that I just sort of handwaved that aspect away.

The new one's different though - it's clear he's just kind of obsessed with talking about this issue, and this time the jokes seem even lazier than before and there's less of them, and more just preaching - and at that, with a rather incoherent message that I don't really think rings true at all. I don't know how bigoted he is or whatever but it's like he just keeps talking about this shit and has already said most of his points in better ways before. I found the whole thing kinda bad actually. Too much lecturing nonsense. Very self important, very obsessed with just firing back at his own critics, lots of quite bad logic in his arguments.

Also what he said about his friend killing herself and insinuating it was because of online harassment from the LGBT community, that's some pretty scumbag shit right there. Very heavy issue and we don't fucking know why this woman did that. Seemed overly reaching.
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SuperVeji4
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:33 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:55 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Also what he said about his friend killing herself and insinuating it was because of online harassment from the LGBT community, that's some pretty scumbag shit right there. Very heavy issue and we don't fucking know why this woman did that. Seemed overly reaching.

I think you're being dishonest here. Being a marginalized individual is hard, and being ostracized by the very social group that's supposed to be your safe haven has to be devastating to the psyche. You can always play the card of "well, we just don't know though," and you would technically be right, but I dare say you're being a bit intellectually dishonest in saying that it's "overly reaching" in saying that the online harassment may have had something to do in influencing her decision.

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Prigione Eterna
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:40 pm 
 

Senator Joe Manchin's obstruction of necessary action against climate change is foolish and may be catastrophic. Not only for his country.
If I were an American citizen and had the possibility to do so, I would be under his office's window and demand he explained to the world what is it that's more important to him than the future of human life on Earth.
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wraithlike
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:06 am 
 

SuperVeji4 wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Also what he said about his friend killing herself and insinuating it was because of online harassment from the LGBT community, that's some pretty scumbag shit right there. Very heavy issue and we don't fucking know why this woman did that. Seemed overly reaching.

I think you're being dishonest here. Being a marginalized individual is hard, and being ostracized by the very social group that's supposed to be your safe haven has to be devastating to the psyche. You can always play the card of "well, we just don't know though," and you would technically be right, but I dare say you're being a bit intellectually dishonest in saying that it's "overly reaching" in saying that the online harassment may have had something to do in influencing her decision.


I think it's fair to say that going by Dave's account alone you definitely get a very skewed perspective. Daphne's roommate spoke out about it and you can read it here: https://twitter.com/two_n_minus_one/sta ... 4441381891

The twitter harassment is pretty indefensible, although I don't think the LGBTQ community should be held accountable for every fucking wackjob on twitter. But there was more to the story: she had already been dealing with the stress of trauma, lost a job and and a custody battle. And I also just don't believe Dave was the hero he painted himself to be for Daphne.

you're right though that it's not fair to say that it is reaching to say the harassment contributed to what happened, there is no way it didn't. It's just that there's more to it and to frame it as if the entire LGBTQ is responsible for that is frankly insane

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MeavyHetal
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:18 am 
 

Prigione Eterna wrote:
Senator Joe Manchin's obstruction of necessary action against climate change is foolish and may be catastrophic. Not only for his country.
If I were an American citizen and had the possibility to do so, I would be under his office's window and demand he explained to the world what is it that's more important to him than the future of human life on Earth.


This cretin needs to admit that he's a Republican already.

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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:21 am 
 

MeavyHetal wrote:
Prigione Eterna wrote:
Senator Joe Manchin's obstruction of necessary action against climate change is foolish and may be catastrophic. Not only for his country.
If I were an American citizen and had the possibility to do so, I would be under his office's window and demand he explained to the world what is it that's more important to him than the future of human life on Earth.


This cretin needs to admit that he's a Republican already.


But he (and Synema) does more damage to Democrats this way. If he were a Republican, he'd make the Republicans look like obstructionists (they are, of course, but some people just won't see it). But as a Democrat, he makes his "fellow" Democrats look incapable of achieving things. Plus, voting for a D probably makes some people sleep better at night, even if the results are the same.

Oh, and he probably loves the position he's in. Basically, he gets to decide what parts of the Democratic agenda can get the go ahead.

But, basically, he and Synema are scum. They need to be primaried into oblivion.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:05 am 
 

SuperVeji4 wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Also what he said about his friend killing herself and insinuating it was because of online harassment from the LGBT community, that's some pretty scumbag shit right there. Very heavy issue and we don't fucking know why this woman did that. Seemed overly reaching.

I think you're being dishonest here. Being a marginalized individual is hard, and being ostracized by the very social group that's supposed to be your safe haven has to be devastating to the psyche. You can always play the card of "well, we just don't know though," and you would technically be right, but I dare say you're being a bit intellectually dishonest in saying that it's "overly reaching" in saying that the online harassment may have had something to do in influencing her decision.


I think it's just too complicated a subject to frame it the way he did. Like someone said above there were existing other issues, a custody battle and other things that likely were much deeper-seated than the way Chappelle framed it. If you're going to talk about suicide then you ought to at least mention the whole story instead of using it as a tool to hit back at the LGBT community.
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Prigione Eterna
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:37 am 
 

It's pretty unbelievable. Does this guy live in an area where you only get Fox News? Does he not talk with his Democrat pals? Is he the weird kid nobody hangs around with because he doesn't believe in evolution? He's head of energy committee, is his Google News broken and does he only get ExxonMobil memos in his feed? You have major newspapers basically calling him a fool on the front page for not realizing what's at stake, you have to be pretty oblivious/stubborn to be that shameless, even if he's playing hardball.
I mean, here you have a guy whose vote quite literally makes or breaks the future, and interested parties (well, only on one side) lavishing money on him to block legislation. How is this not technically corruption, I'll never understand.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:44 am 
 

He owns stock in a coal brokerage, so I guess that's reason enough to condemn the planet to fiery heat death. What does he care - he has his yacht and he'll die before anything really crazy happens.

Money over everything, this capitalistic dogma, is gonna be the death of us man.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:49 am 
 

Sinemanch Toast Crunch are there to provide cover for the 8 or so other Senate Democrats who don't want anything in the progressive bill either, but are scared of primaries.

Primarying those two, especially Joe Mansion, isn't going to happen either, and even if it did could lead to something even worse.
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Prigione Eterna
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:03 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
He owns stock in a coal brokerage, so I guess that's reason enough to condemn the planet to fiery heat death. What does he care - he has his yacht and he'll die before anything really crazy happens.

Money over everything, this capitalistic dogma, is gonna be the death of us man.


True, but is it becoming more blatant the worse we get? Shouldn't it be the opposite?
Day in and day out you read about the end of the neoliberal age, but it just seems to get more shameless. I only see the end of the pretense of rationality of it.

What is West Virginia, Bangladesh? Do they need coal so bad? Please... there's just no shame anymore.
It's so crazy. There should be mass protests against this, Black Lives Matter-style.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:38 am 
 

There really should be. I think some people are trying but man we need way more.

https://theintercept.com/2021/10/17/joh ... or-market/ - there are a lot of good things happening with the strikes though. Lots of strikes. I hope it really shifts things even if I remain cynical about companies' willingness to do shit. But I like seeing the resurgence in labor power.
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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:20 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
There really should be. I think some people are trying but man we need way more.

https://theintercept.com/2021/10/17/joh ... or-market/ - there are a lot of good things happening with the strikes though. Lots of strikes. I hope it really shifts things even if I remain cynical about companies' willingness to do shit. But I like seeing the resurgence in labor power.


thanks for sharing.

It's ironic that the majority of those whom want to 'make America great again' worship at the alter of the oligarchs who've worked to destroy these folks' livelihoods for decades now.

But, to their credit, the Republicans have always been outstanding marketers. They can absolutely sell ice to an Eskimo (albeit with a heavy mark-up).

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Byrain
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:45 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:05 pm 
 

Prigione Eterna wrote:
Senator Joe Manchin's obstruction of necessary action against climate change is foolish and may be catastrophic. Not only for his country.
If I were an American citizen and had the possibility to do so, I would be under his office's window and demand he explained to the world what is it that's more important to him than the future of human life on Earth.


Why do you think that governmental spending will actually fix the problem? When has that ever worked? Can you name one thing the US federal government has spent money on efficiently and wisely that has actually worked? I mean we totally have successful schools and Afghanistan is a beacon of American democracy, right?

Seriously neither the democrats or republicans will ever make serious efforts towards improving the environment. Just look at California that is perpetually burning down due to decades of mismanagement and the current administration that has done next to nothing other than bail PG&E out when they were convicted for dozens of counts of manslaughter (Corporations are people) when they burned Paradise down due to sheer negligence. The biologists that have the knowledge and track record to do real environmental work even live locally in Sacramento...

I don't pretend to know why Manchin is opposing it, but regardless of his reasons you are fooling yourself if you think he is blocking real environmental restoration.

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Prigione Eterna
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:36 pm 
 

I don't know about American schools, but Afghanistan is certainly not an example of wise public spending, although huge.
Don't remember the numbers but something like 90% of spending there was about security; maintaining troops, basically. No real investment in infrastructure, education and so on.
Part of the reason why we have a fighting chance against climate change is due to subsidies to clean energy from the Obama years and also by Europe and China. That's why costs have plunged in recent years. It wasn't sufficient, but for what it was, it had an effect.
I mean, there's no way around it, public spending like this in clean energy and ending subsidies to fossil fuels is key. Don't take my word for it, look up the International Energy Agency's assessments, or IMF's and whatnot.
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Last edited by Prigione Eterna on Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:40 pm 
 

Byrain wrote:
Why do you think that governmental spending will actually fix the problem? When has that ever worked? Can you name one thing the US federal government has spent money on efficiently and wisely that has actually worked? I mean we totally have successful schools and Afghanistan is a beacon of American democracy, right?

Are you fucking serious? Have never heard of The New Deal and The Great Society? Have you never heard of agriculture subsidies? Have you never heard of roads?

The problem with federal programs is that since and including Carter, every administration has worked to privatize and chip away at the size and power of these programs. Biden's package is the first, however meager, step in the right direction in decades in this country.

Bringing up Afghanistan is similarly bonkers. We burned that country to cinders to keep the war machine raging.
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Ezadara
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:57 pm 
 

I've been willing to go to bat for Manchin as a progressive Democrat because when the chips were down he always delivered for the party and because I realize that literally any Dem who primaries him will get annihilated in the general. Not anymore. If he keeps this up he is going to absolutely detonate any chance of the Democrats holding the House in 2022 or the White House in 2024-- and he's so deluded and out of touch with the landscape of modern politics outside of West Virginia that he doesn't realize it. He has his finger on the pulse of his state better than any other Democrat out there but that doesn't matter when he's forcing the entire country to go at West Virginia's pace.

I also don't agree that he and Sinema are providing cover for other Senate Dems who don't want the reconciliation package. I think even the other moderates, who were willing to go along with Manchin on playing it safe and trimming the overall package, are getting annoyed as Manchin's demands increasingly cut out key Democratic priorities and as Sinema refuses to work with her colleagues on finding a realistic compromise. They're losing patience with them as well.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:29 pm 
 

I still think Manchin will cave, but Sinema seems to follow her own beat. She doesn't even seem that interested in being re-elected, maybe she's got a consulting gig lined up down the road. Meanwhile, Mark Kelly is totally in line with the Democrats, and seems way better than I thought he'd be.

There's some small good news re: Manchin; him and Tester have ruled out a carbon tax which might actually have been worse than the social safety net bill completely tanking as far as electability goes.
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Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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SuperVeji4
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Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:34 pm 
 

wraithlike wrote:
SuperVeji4 wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Also what he said about his friend killing herself and insinuating it was because of online harassment from the LGBT community, that's some pretty scumbag shit right there. Very heavy issue and we don't fucking know why this woman did that. Seemed overly reaching.

I think you're being dishonest here. Being a marginalized individual is hard, and being ostracized by the very social group that's supposed to be your safe haven has to be devastating to the psyche. You can always play the card of "well, we just don't know though," and you would technically be right, but I dare say you're being a bit intellectually dishonest in saying that it's "overly reaching" in saying that the online harassment may have had something to do in influencing her decision.


I think it's fair to say that going by Dave's account alone you definitely get a very skewed perspective. Daphne's roommate spoke out about it and you can read it here: https://twitter.com/two_n_minus_one/sta ... 4441381891

The twitter harassment is pretty indefensible, although I don't think the LGBTQ community should be held accountable for every fucking wackjob on twitter. But there was more to the story: she had already been dealing with the stress of trauma, lost a job and and a custody battle. And I also just don't believe Dave was the hero he painted himself to be for Daphne.

you're right though that it's not fair to say that it is reaching to say the harassment contributed to what happened, there is no way it didn't. It's just that there's more to it and to frame it as if the entire LGBTQ is responsible for that is frankly insane

Fair enough.

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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:18 pm 
 

Mother Jones claims Manchin is paving the way to leave the Democratic Party

This is probably just a paper tiger, though I can honestly see Manchin switching to Independent and caucusing with the GOP more easily than I can compromising on reconciliation. I am aware switching parties carries more penalties than just a few angry protestors, but this dude has a fucking houseboat and could probably match the cost of one of his houses with the allowance he gets from his daughter in a week, so he doesn't need the seniority or even the seat.

FWIW, Manchin vociferously denied the story but you'll forgive me if I don't exactly see him as the arbiter of truth.

In more good news, according to a Mediaite poll, Trump is currently more popular with Americans than Biden.
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Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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insanewayne253
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 3:53 am 
 

Manchin for how shitty he has been wouldn’t be welcomed in the Republican Party. If they had a choice between a fake R and a fire breathing R like Blankenship, they’ll go with someone like Blankenship. The problem is also West Virginia’s ENTIRE economy was based on coal. They put all their economic eggs into one basket and now with coal dying a slow black lung induced death, West Virginia is losing massive population (one of the only states during the sham of a census that actually lost more people than gained) and personally I think Manchin is done and hangs it up in 2024.

As for Sinema, she marketed herself as a champion for some progressive policies when she ran in 18, but ended up being a wolf in sheep’s clothing. She doesn’t talk to any constituents, and just runs away when being confronted (I would’ve legit thrown shit at her just to get her to respond) Some political folks think she’s trying way too hard to be like McCain, the only problem is McCain at least had convictions (shitty as they were) and stood with his party 90 percent of the time. Sinema just has none of that and goes where the wind blows. Nobody can figure her out and that’s infuriating. She needs to be primaried, clear the deck for Ruben Gallego in 24.

In the meantime pass what we can sell it to the people, and focus on getting more Dems elected and come back for another crack at it because if the Rs get the house, it’s going to be full of MAGAts that will do everything to attempt to impeach Biden and/or Harris, install Trump as Speaker (even right wing nut jobs have floated this idea) , and everything about 1/6 gets swept under the rug, not to mention in 24 they’ll just completely not certify the election paving the way for their fascist rule, put troops on the Mexican border and will legit start a war with China. I hope I scared the shit out of some of you.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:56 am 
 

Just to be clear, Manchin would not be joining the GOP. The claim is that he would switch to an Independent and could theoretically caucus with the GOP, or at least threaten to do so to give him more leverage. Manchin doesn't get so easily re-elected in WV because he's a Democrat; WV is by county a 100% red state. It's because of his name.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Ezadara
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:23 pm 
 

There were rumors that Manchin was gonna switch parties back in 2010, in 2014, again in 2016 (people were speculating he would switch if the Senate came down to a 50-50 split), and again in 2018 when he was staring down the barrel of the toughest election of his life. I guess you should never say never in politics, but that Mother Jones article is pretty shoddy reporting and Manchin himself seems actually annoyed whenever he gets asked about it.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:24 am 
 

Medicare expansion and paid family leave are on the bubble.

At this point I don't see the value in any of this. These bills won't make a measurable difference in anyone's lives, and given all the means testing, could actually make things worse by making everything needlessly complicated.

Democrats will get rinsed in the midterms if they don't pass anything but here's the thing: Democrats will get rinsed if they pass these shitty bills too. Pulling the bills and laying the blame on Sinemanch/Republicans wouldn't be less effective than passing bills that offer next to nothing and adding trillions to the debt during an economic downturn. You may say crumbs are better than nothing but they're worse if you try to pass off the crumbs as a 4-course meal and everyone knows they're not.

And for the record, I don't give a shit about the national debt. But a lot of Americans do.


Wonder how many times Biden will be impeached? I'm thinking three; gotta outdo the last entry for the sequel.

EDIT: Also, lmfao.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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insanewayne253
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 2:50 pm 
 

Step 1: Take the 1.5T-2T worth of programs we're getting now as a win. Those are programs we don't have to worry about again.
Step 2: Pick up PA, WI, NC, and MO next year, taking us to 54.
Step 3: Try not to bite our thumbs and Sinema and Manchin as we expand Medicare and Medicaid and tax the corps at levels they should be.
Step 4: Profit.

Or alternatively:
Step 1: Whine and complain about not getting everything we ever wanted with a 50-50 Senate and 3 seats in the House
Step 2: Whine and complain more about how Democrats never do anything so obviously the Pure And Perfect Progressives must sit out or vote for the Greens in order to Send a Message
Step 3: Lose 2 Senate seats this year and 6 in 2024
Step 4: End up even worse off in 2023 and 2025 than we are now.

I know which alternative I'm in favor of.

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Ezadara
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:55 pm 
 

I mean, either way we will definitely not pick up Missouri unless lightning strikes and it's Eric Greitens against, I don't know, Jay Nixon or Jason Kander. I'd bet on picking up Florida before Missouri and I don't think we're getting Florida either. The other three you mentioned-- Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and North Carolina-- are at this point Dems' only realistic pickup opportunities. Even those will be a stretch if infighting and intransigence leads to the Dems getting nothing passed.

I'm hoping that's not what happens.

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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:59 am 
 

insanewayne253 wrote:
Step 1: Take the 1.5T-2T worth of programs we're getting now as a win. Those are programs we don't have to worry about again.
Step 2: Pick up PA, WI, NC, and MO next year, taking us to 54.
Step 3: Try not to bite our thumbs and Sinema and Manchin as we expand Medicare and Medicaid and tax the corps at levels they should be.
Step 4: Profit.

Or alternatively:
Step 1: Whine and complain about not getting everything we ever wanted with a 50-50 Senate and 3 seats in the House
Step 2: Whine and complain more about how Democrats never do anything so obviously the Pure And Perfect Progressives must sit out or vote for the Greens in order to Send a Message
Step 3: Lose 2 Senate seats this year and 6 in 2024
Step 4: End up even worse off in 2023 and 2025 than we are now.

I know which alternative I'm in favor of.


That first scenario is about as likely as God himself showing up and leading us to the promised land.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:08 am 
 

I mean people always like to lambast "pure and perfect progressives," but if the Dems lose more seats over what's happening it won't just be because of that bogeyman. They gotta show results. They have all the power right now and could be pulling out the stops to get everyone in the party in line without watering the bill down too much. I'll end up having to vote for them again and I've never voted Green or third party - just saying that it isn't like the Dems are blameless if things get weakened or people don't like what they're doing.
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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:46 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
They have all the power right now


They don't, though. They never did.
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manowar are literally five times the band that fates warning are: each member is as good as fates warning alone, then joey's bass solos are like an entire extra fates warning

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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:58 am 
 

Oblarg wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
They have all the power right now


They don't, though. They never did.


Yes, that's why I said earlier Manchin does more damage as a Democrat than he would as a Republican (or Independant). Right now, Democrats have the illusion of being in power, but two pseudo-Dems (he and Synema) are holding them back.

If Manchin or Synema were to lose the D, people would more easily see that Dems don't hold all the cards.

But it wouldn't mean that companies wouldn't knock on another D's door. The issue is big money in politics. It was reported that Manchin receives money from oil barons. Of course he won't support any serious Democrat plan that is semi-serious on climate change (for instance).

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Oblarg
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:04 am 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/27/us/kyle- ... index.html

I feel, deep in my gut, that he's going to get away with it.
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manowar are literally five times the band that fates warning are: each member is as good as fates warning alone, then joey's bass solos are like an entire extra fates warning

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Slater922
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:39 pm 
 

Oblarg wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-victim-terminology/index.html

I feel, deep in my gut, that he's going to get away with it.

As much as I would love to see this kid locked up for life, I have a really bad feeling that this trial is gonna end in favor of Rittenhouse. I mean, they're not letting the prosecutors refer to the victims as "victims", but the defense is allowed to refer to them as rioters and looters. I mean, how is that fair? :nono:
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:43 pm 
 

I think the Senate could still remain blue, but the margins won't shift much. The problem is that the House is toast. Completely and utterly fucked. I'm expecting a 40+ shift.

And yes, Rittenhouse is going to get off scot-free, this is America after all.
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CoconutBackwards
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:28 pm 
 

Oblarg wrote:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-victim-terminology/index.html

I feel, deep in my gut, that he's going to get away with it.


Quote:
Schroeder has had a longstanding rule of not allowing prosecutors to refer to people as "victims" at trial.
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oldmetalhead
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:54 pm 
 

Underage kid with an illegal rifle, illegally transported across state's line , shoots 3 unarmed people, kills two. What in the actual fuck are we talking about here? He get's off, he would be a hunted man/boy if he killed someone I love.

Edit: I forgot, the hero with a handgun was armed, he lived but had his arm blasted.

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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 377
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:16 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I think the Senate could still remain blue, but the margins won't shift much. The problem is that the House is toast. Completely and utterly fucked. I'm expecting a 40+ shift.

And yes, Rittenhouse is going to get off scot-free, this is America after all.

I don't think Republicans will pick up that many seats, mainly because at this point there are so few really competitive seats in the Dem column-- frankly, so few competitive seats overall, now that Texas has been gerrymandered to insulate previously-vulnerable Republican-held districts. Just how many seats will be lost depends on whether Dems are able to do some gerrymandering of their own in Illinois and New York-- conceivably they could take as many as seven seats from the Republicans just through redistricting in those states, while also insulating vulnerable incumbents of their own.

I despise gerrymandering and if I had my way every state's redistricting process would be in the hands of independent commissions, but with Republicans going on the offensive in NC, TX, and FL, I don't know if we can afford to take the high road again while the Republicans continue to fight dirty with no qualms.

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henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 4253
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:53 pm 
 

oldmetalhead wrote:
Underage kid with an illegal rifle, illegally transported across state's line , shoots 3 unarmed people, kills two. What in the actual fuck are we talking about here? He get's off, he would be a hunted man/boy if he killed someone I love.

Edit: I forgot, the hero with a handgun was armed, he lived but had his arm blasted.


The defense could have a pretty sellable self-defense story considering the last two shooting victims, as Rittenhouse wasn't an active shooter at that point - he was running away and the two people he shot were the ones running after him, one armed himself and one attempting to hit him with a skateboard.

I still don't see Rittenhouse as a nazi looking for an excuse to kill people - not at that time at least. Dude was an idiot kid with a gun he shouldn't have had, probably nervous as hell because he was being pursued by a group of people, and freaked out after hearing unrelated gun shots. The rest is history. Current Rittenhouse seems to be pretty damn nazi-ish though and he seems to enjoy his newfound fame in those circles.

Also I don't get why they charged him with felony homicide. Seems like a very high bar to prove. Manslaughter seemed like a better option.

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