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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 2973
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:53 am 
 

Truckers all over Canada are driving towards Ottawa to insist the government "end all mandates". There's a lot of anti-Trudeau sentiment online with some calling for a Jan 6th style showdown. In Canada? Unreal.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:21 pm 
 

This whole thing is ridiculous. I hate that people don't realize their freedoms end where another's begin. I.e. the fact that they're unvaccinated in a pandemic can have consequences to other people.

Also, if they want to deliver to the US, they have to be vaccinated, and Trudeau has nothing to do with it.

And I hate all the freaking drama around it. "We fight for your freedom", "truckers are like soldiers leaving their families during WWII", "mandates are tyranny", that's just bullshit. Stop being a drama queen, it's just a tiny needle.

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Waltz_of_Ghouls
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:24 am
Posts: 858
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:52 pm 
 

Ah yes, the #FluTruxKlan. Hilariously shitshow really.
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~Guest 280883
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Posts: 556
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2022 3:30 am 
 

Waltz_of_Ghouls wrote:
Ah yes, the #FluTruxKlan. Hilariously shitshow really.


I say, sir, that's a zing! :D

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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 7:42 pm 
 

It's so fucking bizarre, this shit. If 90% of the truckers are vaccinated and the Trucker Board or whatever it is hasn't thrown their weight behind this, makes you wonder who is behind it all. Fringe groups that the further you go down their rabbit hole are white supremacists.
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ModusOperandi
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Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 1553
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:26 pm 
 

^ And you'd be right on the money about that. One of these fuckfaces involved and running interference is a guy named Pat King, whom has openly spoken about "depopulation of the Anglo-Saxon race" conspiracies and "stronger bloodlines."
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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 6232
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 8:32 pm 
 

Hope you're not a fan of the Canadian black metal band Panzerfaust, because they've been posting pictures on social media gleefully attending the trucker protest. It obviously hasn't gone over well for them, fucking shitheads.

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hakarl
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8817
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 4:00 am 
 

Razakel wrote:
Hope you're not a fan of the Canadian black metal band Panzerfaust, because they've been posting pictures on social media gleefully attending the trucker protest. It obviously hasn't gone over well for them, fucking shitheads.

Who?
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Metal_On_The_Ascendant
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Joined: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am
Posts: 2973
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 12:05 pm 
 

Yeah, not a fan of Panzerfaust. Didn't know their politics though.
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:00 am 
 

Long, long overdue, but welcome all the same: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... -humanity/
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:24 pm 
 

Apparently, the latest stunt pulled by the idiot convoy is to flood the 911 and non-emergency call lines in Ottawa.

What is freedom if you can't prank call the emergency lines and put people in danger in the process, right?

(But that pales in comparison to reports that multiple protestors told the leaders they were ready to take arms...)

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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 3066
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 5:06 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
Apparently, the latest stunt pulled by the idiot convoy is to flood the 911 and non-emergency call lines in Ottawa.

What is freedom if you can't prank call the emergency lines and put people in danger in the process, right?

(But that pales in comparison to reports that multiple protestors told the leaders they were ready to take arms...)


The complete and utter selfishness being displayed by these dopes is astonishing. Humanity is doomed.
But it's good to see freedumb ringing north of the border.

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JCP524
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:37 pm
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 3:53 pm 
 

Does Canada not have a military?

If yes, then what are they waiting for?

They need to send a message quickly and forcefully.

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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 6232
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:15 pm 
 

JCP524 wrote:
Does Canada not have a military?

If yes, then what are they waiting for?

They need to send a message quickly and forcefully.


If Canada was the States, then that's obviously what we would already have done. But we're not, and quelling protests with militaristic force is seen here as, like, the very very very last resort (or at least so our government says, even though there're plenty of examples of pipeline protesters getting teargassed and arrested, but that's another topic). It's looking like things could go that route, though. Most of the remaining protesters are the most fringe alt-right ones that were there to begin with, so I basically have no sympathy for whatever happens to them.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 4:37 pm 
 

Can someone explain to me why they don't just arrest and tow everyone who's blocking traffic in any way? If there's too many to arrest all of them, can't they randomly select a good number and slap big charges on them to deter the rest? Or do Canadian protest laws permit this type of civil disobedience?

Definitely do not want to see bloodshed.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 5:37 pm 
 

I wondered the same thing, and from what I gathered, there are multiple issues. First, tow companies don't want the trouble of towing the trucks (I'm sure there are solutions to that, but it does make things more complicated). Then, some of the campers are apparently there with their kids and family, so it makes it harder to just send cops to arrest them and, say, gas them. Ottawa police fears the presence of guns. Not sure that's a great excuse because that concern should be there in any problematic protest, but given the crowd, it wouldn't be surprising if the concerns are higher now. The Ottawa police doesn't seem super proactive. I've read in an article that there just aren't many RCMP presence in Ontario, which I find surprising given that it's basically our FBI and it's the seat of the federal government, so take that with a grain of salt, but apparently Ontario has its provincial police force similar to Qubec's SQ, except they need the provincial prime minister's go to act in Ottawa since it's another police department's jurisdiction. So everyone needs to follow the chain of command, and the chain of command is just not willing to risk the political damage of sending the cavalry.

Canadian laws are generally permissive of protests, although of course your mileage may vary, sometimes all it takes is a few Indigenous people and the tear gas is a go... But blocking the way like that is definitely illegal, as is making excessive noise, and there are probably thousands of disorderly conducts infractions (or worse) that have been committed already. From what I gather, Doug Ford has been really slow on this, being basically absent when he's usually such a loud mouth who loves the attention, he just declared state of emergency in Ontario after nearly two weeks. Meanwhile, Ottawa mayor was probably not expecting such a long stay.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:38 am 
 

So the French elections are coming up and Le Pen is crawling up the polls at what looks to be the best time for her. I obviously despise Macron but I'd vote for an inanimate carbon rod if it would stop that psychopath. She would be a competent Trump. Think about that.
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ZenoMarx
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:55 am 
 

Let's toast to Hungary and Serbia for their elections. This world is amazingly sad.

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CoconutBackwards
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Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:30 pm 
 

ZenoMarx wrote:
Let's toast to Hungary and Serbia for their elections. This world is amazingly sad.


What's wrong with these wins?
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Curious_dead
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:14 pm 
 

I think they're both Putin puppets. Hungary for sure, anyway. They're among the few EU countries who pay Russia in Roubles.

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hakarl
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:41 pm 
 

I don't know about the circumstances in Serbia, but the Hungarian election was basically not even a free election. Seems that Orban has pretty much perfect control over Hungarian media.
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ZenoMarx
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:48 pm 
 

CoconutBackwards wrote:
ZenoMarx wrote:
Let's toast to Hungary and Serbia for their elections. This world is amazingly sad.


What's wrong with these wins?

Not aware of the direction Hungary has been heading?

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~Guest 280883
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:21 pm 
 

hakarl wrote:
I don't know about the circumstances in Serbia, but the Hungarian election was basically not even a free election. Seems that Orban has pretty much perfect control over Hungarian media.


It's similar in Serbia. The ruling party has the kind of media control and financial resources others can only dream of and has been systematically destroying the institutions on all levels for ten years now.

I voted for the opposition and I'm following what's happening. There's a sliver of a chance of the election on one of the three levels (Belgrade parliament) being declared invalid and repeated later this year. The alternative is to merely repeat the voting in the several locations where major irregularities were recorded.

The other two, the presidential and state parliament elections (all three were held on the same day) are pretty much a done deal, unfortunately, though one truly progressive green/LGBT rights/... coalition made it to the parliament for the first time, which I consider a great success. They won't have as many representatives as I'd like, but it's amazing they're in.

But on the third level, the Belgrade parliament, where the opposition gained the most votes in terms of percentages, the situation is complicated in ways I couldn't begin to explain. First of all, the opposition itself is ideologically heterogeneous in a way that is not sustainable in the long run, plus, it is rife with decades-old grievances and internal conflicts. Then, there's the old issue of the ruling party just plain cheating when it comes to vote counting, more or less openly. That's the argument on which the opposition wants to have the election on this level repeated one way or another, as I said above.

My feelings about these elections are a strange mixture of the kind of hope that we haven't had for ten years now and the sinking feeling that the new potential, however small, will be squandered. I see this as an opportunity to get one foot in the door. For others, this is not enough. I understand that position as well. Things are very difficult to predict at the moment.

These are interesting days in Serbia. Something's happening, things are c-r-a-w-l-i-n-g in the right direction here and there, and the ruling party is definitely disintegrating. Problem is, they can afford to disintegrate for several years at least. If the opposition is smart, they can accelerate that disintegration (Suffocation song title not intended). IF they're smart...

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~Guest 280883
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:28 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
I think they're both Putin puppets. Hungary for sure, anyway. They're among the few EU countries who pay Russia in Roubles.


Just to note, Hungary is in the EU, but Serbia is not.

It's funny about Vucic and whether he is a Putin puppet. In one way he is, though Serbia has officially condemned the war in Ukraine in a bit of a roundabout way. One of his major policies has been "sitting on both chairs". That means that the EU is pulling his strings just as hard. In fact, that's been one of the factors why he can't be brought down so easily - the EU can't be bothered to put its resources into backing the opposition. They're fine with Vucic for their own reasons. For now.

However, it seems like this cushy period for him is ending. The EU seems to be growing tired of his bullshit too, which I can only welcome. Let's say that the chairs are being pulled apart and his ass is likely to hit the ground sooner or later. I just hope he doesn't drag the whole country with him.

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Osore
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 595
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:11 pm 
 

Wahn_nhaW wrote:
The other two, the presidential and state parliament elections (all three were held on the same day) are pretty much a done deal, unfortunately, though one truly progressive green/LGBT rights/... coalition made it to the parliament for the first time, which I consider a great success. They won't have as many representatives as I'd like, but it's amazing they're in.

The world really became surreal...the pandemic...the war in Ukraine...and my professor becoming a candidate for a president. Yes, I voted for Biljana and left-green coalition. It is unbelievable that green politics are on the rise here and they have my full support. :-D

In the meantime, waiting for Vučić to experience a fatal heart attack... :grr: (Било је 'оће срчка, неће срчка, али на крају има да га опали. XD)
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~Guest 280883
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 1:48 pm 
 

Osore wrote:
...and my professor becoming a candidate for a president. Yes, I voted for Biljana and left-green coalition. It is unbelievable that green politics are on the rise here and they have my full support. :-D
Right on! :D

Quote:
In the meantime, waiting for Vučić to experience a fatal heart attack... :grr: (Било је 'оће срчка, неће срчка, али на крају има да га опали. XD)
Oh, I remember that "scare". XD

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 12:41 am 
 

Vučić is not a Putin puppet, he's forced to thread the needle of being landlocked by NATO and still trying to shake off the atrocities Serbia committed a few decades ago. He's been pretty open about his desire for Serbia to join the EU.

Orban is emblematic of the recent rise of the illiberal right, quite similar to Putin. I'd hesitate to call him better than Putin, just different, with an even greater emphasis on East Orthodox theocracy. Unlike Russia, the Hungarian elections are free and technically fair, but the opposition is vigorously suppressed to the point where a meaningful coalition to take him down is all but impossible... at least electorally.

The silver lining around the dark cloud of Le Pen getting in is that NATO may take a mortal wound. How can you pretend it's a force for good when Hungary, Turkey and now Le Pen are its members? She's even indicated she's interested in pulling out of NATO, which would be pretty hilarious.

Don't get it wrong though, Le Pen would be a categorical disaster for not only France, but the world. She has the power to shake-up the world order much more significantly than the Ukrainian invasion. Any French citizen who considers himself a decent person has an imperative to vote for Macron.
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~Guest 280883
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Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:03 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Vučić is not a Putin puppet, he's forced to thread the needle of being landlocked by NATO and still trying to shake off the atrocities Serbia committed a few decades ago. He's been pretty open about his desire for Serbia to join the EU.


Has it ever occurred to you that he ideologically supported those atrocities with full force as they were happening? His "transformation" and his supposed desire to join the EU is about as genuine as everything about him. He's not trying to shake off anything of the sort. His gangs of paid hooligans are spray-painting every corner of every city with pro-Ratko Mladic (and recently pro-Putin) graffiti.

Please, none of this apologist bullshit for this asshole. At least have the decency not to try to push this narrative on us who have to live under his regime. If you need to keep embarrassing yourself, go back to the Ukraine thread where you did it so successfully. Or maybe take some time to think and stop doing this bullshit altogether.

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~Guest 280883
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 1:34 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:07 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Unlike Russia, the Hungarian elections are free and technically fair, but the opposition is vigorously suppressed to the point where a meaningful coalition to take him down is all but impossible... at least electorally.


The second part of your sentence completely contradicts the first. Now I'm convinced you've been trolling all along. Good job, I guess.

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Osore
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 595
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 7:03 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Orban is emblematic of the recent rise of the illiberal right, quite similar to Putin. I'd hesitate to call him better than Putin, just different, with an even greater emphasis on East Orthodox theocracy.

Catholic church is dominant in Hungary, not the Orthodox one.

And the entire narrative of stabilocracy Vučić is trying to impose does not bring us closer to EU. As long as we have an autocratic ruler, quasi-democrasy, ecocides all around, deals with China and Russia, we won't be welcomed into EU. I believe EU wants us to recognise Kosovo as an independent state, and I can't think of a government that would make such unpopular decision. There is also a sense that EU is falling apart from the inside, with Poland and Hungary suppressing human rights and Brexit of course. I would like to see Serbia as a member of EU, but I don't think this would happen in the near future.

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~Guest 280883
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:14 am 
 

Osore wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
Orban is emblematic of the recent rise of the illiberal right, quite similar to Putin. I'd hesitate to call him better than Putin, just different, with an even greater emphasis on East Orthodox theocracy.

Catholic church is dominant in Hungary, not the Orthodox one.

And the entire narrative of stabilocracy Vučić is trying to impose does not bring us closer to EU. As long as we have an autocratic ruler, quasi-democrasy, ecocides all around, deals with China and Russia, we won't be welcomed into EU. I believe EU wants us to recognise Kosovo as an independent state, and I can't think of a government that would make such unpopular decision. There is also a sense that EU is falling apart from the inside, with Poland and Hungary suppressing human rights and Brexit of course. I would like to see Serbia as a member of EU, but I don't think this would happen in the near future.


Thanks for providing a more cool-headed response than I could. (Holy shit, I missed the part where he thinks Hungary is an East Orthodox country. I mean, who cares, but there's something to be said for getting the basic facts straight.)

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 8:16 am 
 

I follow Rod Dreher with intense curiosity and he's deeply in love with Orban and everything about Hungary. He converted to Eastern Orthodox a couple of decades ago, so I wrongly just assumed Hungary was too.

Wahn_nhaW wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
Unlike Russia, the Hungarian elections are free and technically fair, but the opposition is vigorously suppressed to the point where a meaningful coalition to take him down is all but impossible... at least electorally.


The second part of your sentence completely contradicts the first. Now I'm convinced you've been trolling all along. Good job, I guess.

Do I need to link you the OSCE report? Their report was basically a mirror of what I said.

I'm not apologizing for your PM. I just said calling him a Putin puppet ala Lukashenko is reductive.
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~Guest 280883
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:26 am 
 

If the opposition is "vigorously oppressed", which it is, then the election cannot be free in any meaningful way, which it isn't. I'm sure Orban has all the means of making the election appear technically free, so that the EU leaves him alone more or less. But, come the fuck on.

(Or did you mean to emphasize the second part, that the opposition is oppressed? Even so, calling the Hungarian election "free" is ridiculous.)

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:45 am 
 

Here's the OSCE report: https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/515135

Election day ran smoothly with few indications of the kind of fraud and fixing that permeates, say, Russian "elections." Rather, it was the process leading up to the election and the total shuttering of opposition that puts its legitimacy in question.

And for the record, I condemn fascist freaks from Orban, to Modi, to Erdogan, to Putin, to Vučić. Godwilling I won't have to condemn Le Pen too, but it's not looking great ATM.
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Last edited by darkeningday on Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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~Guest 280883
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:56 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Here's the OSCE report: https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/515135

(1) Election day ran smoothly with few indications of the kind of fraud and fixing that permeates, say, Russian "elections." (2) Rather, it was the process leading up to the election and the total shuttering of opposition that puts its legitimacy in question.


(1) is meaningless in light of (2).

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~Guest 280883
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 9:58 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
And for the record, I condemn fascist freaks from Orban, to Modi, to Erdogan, to Putin, to Vučić. Godwilling I won't have to condemn Le Pen too, but it's not looking to great at the moment.


Nice try, but your post history speaks for itself.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:13 am 
 

Far as I can see it there are two ways you can "rig" an election. They are not mutually exclusive.

1) Literally rigging the election by attacking its mechanical process. This includes ballot stuffing, actively denying voters access (e.g. because they have the wrong skin color) to the voting booth to outright altering the vote counts ex post facto. There is no indication Hungary did this.
2) Influencing the way voters actually vote by using the state and media apparatus to effectively silence the opposition. Hungary does this.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:25 am 
 

Wahn_nhaW wrote:
darkeningday wrote:
And for the record, I condemn fascist freaks from Orban, to Modi, to Erdogan, to Putin, to Vučić. Godwilling I won't have to condemn Le Pen too, but it's not looking to great at the moment.


Nice try, but your post history speaks for itself.

Yeah, pretty sure I never defended any of these fucks. Any one of them toppled by their citizens would be magnificent, see Tunisia as a great example of this. Where I draw the line is US/NATO intervention, see Libya as a great example of this.
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ZenoMarx
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 4:29 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure I never defended any of these fucks. Any one of them toppled by their citizens would be magnificent, see Tunisia as a great example of this. Where I draw the line is US/NATO intervention, see Libya as a great example of this.
That's quite the gambling spirit, wouldn't you say?

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MikeyC
Official Greeter of Broken Hills

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:59 pm 
 

The Australian federal election has been called for May 21st. If anyone has any knowledge about our current prime minister, Scott Morrison, you would know why I'm very hopeful he will be gone. Let's see if the rest of Australia is on the same wavelength in 6 weeks.
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