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LithoJazzoSphere
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:49 pm 
 

What music do you have the most trouble appreciating and finding favorites in? Not necessarily that you think it sucks, to differentiate it from other active threads, but just that it is so outside of your palate or cultural experience that you have trouble grasping it. And maybe if people consider themselves knowledgeable in some of these areas they can make recommendations, potentially even tailored to specific poster's tastes if they have a sense of them.

For me, there are two particular areas, both of which have things in common.

One is harsh noise, and some of the more extreme industrial, including various substyles like power electronics and such. I think this ties into why I struggle with the more dissonant strains of death (and black) metal. But at least there they tend to have more recognizable song, riffing, rhythmic, and even textural structures in common with other metal, so I can put up with more atonality and lack of melody. But for a lot of the noise/industrial I've heard structure seems absent (sometimes probably intentionally), so there's just not much for me to latch onto. There is a lot of electro-industrial, aggrotech and such I like, but those tend to be more melodic and with more conventional song formats and synthesizer sounds.

Another is free and avant-garde jazz. Similar issues here, it just too often feels like random experimentation for the sake of it, and I just feel unmoored listening to it, even though the timbres are often more familiar. It's more hit and miss here, I've had more success with some of Marilyn Crispell's work, which isn't always as intense, and certain albums like John Coltrane's Sun Ship, or various work from Oregon, mix the more bizarre sections with regular songwriting, so I can tolerate the crazier stuff when I know it's coming back to more normal territory at some point again.

If I'd done this thread a decade or more ago I would have included 20th century avant-garde classical, avant-prog, and Rock In Opposition, but I've had some breakthroughs with finding more artists and albums I like there since then, so it seems possible to make progress on these. I think part of it is that two of my favorite albums are the scores to Alien 3 from Elliott Goldenthal, and to The Village from James Newton Howard. Both of those go from extremes of some of the most beautiful music I've ever heard, to some of the ugliest, and probably repeated exposure over years/decades wore me down, and I've heard elements of those in common with RIO and others that gave me a foothold.


Last edited by LithoJazzoSphere on Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 5405
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 2:37 pm 
 

I don't really struggle with anything at this point. Sure I still can't tolerate boybands or bad mainstream metal but challenging music quite quickly is interesting to me. One genre i find kind of interesting while it isn't for me at all is hyperpop. Many ways opposite of what I want both culturally and musically but it is so extra that it has something going for it.

Sometimes also music that should be harder to get into is actually easier to get into. I like more really abrasive jazz than more "casual" jazz for example.

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ZenoMarx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 491
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:05 pm 
 

I had a very difficult time with jazz that wasn't free jazz, but I was coming at it from a noise perspective. I wasn't looking for "brutality", but a lot of the tones in jazz made me cringe. And I hated hated HATED the saxophone for the longest time. Really, any woodwind instrument bothered me. But when it was played aggressively and with dissonance, I could deal with it. This and that happened, and that all changed. My math was wrong for the longest time. I was adding 2 + 2 and getting 7. Changing how I listened to it, which took an embarrassingly long amount of time, was the difference. I usually find that the case, though. For another example, I also couldn't stand the vibraphone until last year, and then I heard the Andrew Hill - Judgement album. It suddenly clicked, and now I listen to that instrument with pure joy.

I should have been able to connect the dots in my own history, as I'm a big, big Grateful Dead fan (am nuts for improvisation), adore krautrock (couldn't stand the jazz fusion bands until my aforementioned jazz journey), and have a strong connexion with your example Oregon, just to name a few. I love to listen to the players listening to each other. I'm more impressed with the skill set of listening and playing off each other than songwriting. Obviously, they're both crucial, but the skill to remove the ego and place your playing in the hands of the other players, knowing when not to play, is endlessly fascinating and provides infinite results.

I was like this with Keiji Haino too. I always liked his heavy noise and pure ambient albums, but the rest of it drove me crazy. I knew something was there for me, though. Now, I think he's one of my favorite artists of all time, and anything he does interests me. Again, I changed how I listened to him, and now I'm fully there.

I'm a big tone and timbre person. It's not usually the music itself that creates the major hurdle. It's the tones and timbre. If I can come at those things from a different place, it all changes.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 4:17 pm 
 

Fascinating, you're kind of the exact opposite of me, or at least started from opposite trajectories. Saxophone and vibraphone were some of my early favorite instruments. I wanted to play saxophone before guitar, but my parents convinced me I'd have a better chance of playing with other people with guitar, and they were right. Learned to play saxophone later on anyway though.

The point about improvisation and listening skills is also intriguing. I've never been able to get into jam bands for the most part, but that is the reason I tend to like a lot of live jazz, it's the perfect medium for that. I get annoyed by live recordings that just try and reproduce the studio album, as it rarely matches, much less exceeds that product, so I prefer creative rearrangements and on the spot reinterpretations. It's also related to why supergroups fascinate me, where players get out of the comfort zones of their normal groups and collaborate with people they don't typically work with, where for it to work there has to be a constant feedback loop.


Last edited by LithoJazzoSphere on Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ravenlord266
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:18 pm
Posts: 1441
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 8:00 am 
 

Honestly, it's a weird question for me. Any genre that doesn't 'hook' me in with relative ease will have a hard time getting consecutive tries from me. Metal or otherwise. Most of the music I listen to I got into with relative ease. There's so much to discover in genres I 'do' like, I wouldn't really want concern myself with stuff that's 'hard to get into'.
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ZenoMarx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 491
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:40 pm 
 

LithoJazzoSphere wrote:
The point about improvisation and listening skills is also intriguing. I've never been able to get into jam bands for the most part, but that is the reason I tend to like a lot of live jazz, it's the perfect medium for that. I get annoyed by live recordings that just try and reproduce the studio album, as it rarely matches, much less exceeds that product, so I prefer creative rearrangements and on the spot reinterpretations. It's also related to why supergroups fascinate me, where players get out of their comfort zones of their normal groups and collaborative with people they don't typically work with, where for it to work there has to be a constant feedback loop.
Unfortunately, I find both supergroups and collaborations to be 95% failures and don't live up to the assumed potential. I think I can name on two hands the successful industrial collaborations, and there have been thousands. Some of that is prey to my own expectations. I do appreciate one aspect of supergroups, though: songwriters who are usually very protective, defensive, and even ego-maniacs have to leave that at home when in a group of other notable songwriters and players. There's less of a hierarchy. That's another reason I like improvisation so much. While there is usually a leader of some sort, by nature, it is a very generous approach to playing music. That protectionism and defensiveness is usually not part of the makeup of the playing. It's very democratic. Leaders hire other players with the hopes they'll thrive and deliver. They don't hire guns so they can control and stifle them.

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Bishop_Drugsalot
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:42 am
Posts: 722
Location: Purgatory
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:03 am 
 

Math rock. It serves no purpose for me and sounds mostly so lifeless and calculated that I get the heebie-jeebies. When math rock bands venture closer to metal, they almost categorically do it by leaning into metalcore or djent. That shit doesn't fly with me and makes a bad situation worse. When they remain on the softer side, depending on the artist, I just find myself wanting to listen to post-punk (in so called atmospheric math rock cases) or avant-prog/RIO/zeuhl (in technical math rock cases). Usually these options have so much more life, energy, danger, excitement in them.

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lord_ghengis
Still Standing After 38 Beers... hic

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5792
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 10:29 pm 
 

Acoustic shit and ambient shit. What can I say, I like some vigor and volume, I'll take something which can grab even the remotest amount of attention any day.
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The Bard with Bright Eyes
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:48 am
Posts: 63
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:24 am 
 

Folk/ethnic music. I can respect it for what it is, but it is often too crude and primitive for me to enjoy.

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Lane
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:54 am
Posts: 686
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 2:01 pm 
 

The most challenging band I eventually got into is Primus. I could not stand Les' voice. They certainly had fine rhythmic stuff especially on 'Sailing the Seas of Cheese', where Herb just slays. I think it's eventually his playing that sucked me in more and more.

I need some kind of composition that makes sense to me, and I hardly cannot find any in aforementioned power electronics and noise stuff. I like some industrial, but yeah, I want some structure. I haven't worked in a factory, so...:P

Math rock, yeah, and most math metal I've heard, too. I also find it lifeless. As a reviewer, I've received some stuff, and simply had to say "no good"... Well, I sucked at math at school anyway!

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HeavenDuff
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Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 3460
Location: Montréal
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:19 pm 
 

Bishop_Drugsalot wrote:
Math rock. It serves no purpose for me and sounds mostly so lifeless and calculated that I get the heebie-jeebies. When math rock bands venture closer to metal, they almost categorically do it by leaning into metalcore or djent. That shit doesn't fly with me and makes a bad situation worse. When they remain on the softer side, depending on the artist, I just find myself wanting to listen to post-punk (in so called atmospheric math rock cases) or avant-prog/RIO/zeuhl (in technical math rock cases). Usually these options have so much more life, energy, danger, excitement in them.


This is how I feel about most of what they call math rock myself. There are some exceptions, like early bands like Slint, or those that border more on prog rock. But stuff like The Dillinger Escape Plan, that's supposed to be very good, I simply can't get into.

As for djent, I have similar issues, and can't get into Meshuggah, no matter how many times I've tried. But I enjoy some Animals As Leaders. Some people have called Scale the Summit "djent", although I disagree with that categorization, but also really like their music, that I perceive as more prog metal/rock.

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LithoJazzoSphere
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Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 8:11 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:38 pm 
 

HeavenDuff wrote:
As for djent, I have similar issues, and can't get into Meshuggah, no matter how many times I've tried. But I enjoy some Animals As Leaders. Some people have called Scale the Summit "djent", although I disagree with that categorization, but also really like their music, that I perceive as more prog metal/rock.


Have you heard Plini or Intervals?

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