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Raven_Augustus
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:30 pm
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:32 pm 
 

So, apparently Trump had dinner with Kanye West, Milo Yiannopoulos and Nick Fuentes. :scratch:

I heard about Fuentes in 2017 ish when I watched more political content on YouTube, and from what I remember he was a typical alt-righter hiding behind many layers of irony. He got de-platformed across the Internet, but I guess he has stayed afloat.

I won't list all his views, but most important to note is that he's a white nationalist concerned with preserving the white majority of the USA and wants to instill some Catholic monarchy. His uniqueness comes from being so young and trying to appeal to zoomers. Now he's teaming up with a black rapper-turned-anti-Semite Ye and "de-converted homosexual" British Jew-turned-Catholic Milo. I guess what unites them is being bigoted pieces of shit.

In Trump's (small) defense, it seems he did not know that he would be meeting anyone other than Kanye. Still, it's shocking that he would even be associated with that circus around Kanye, even if he distances himself from Fuentes and Milo.

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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1642
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:36 pm 
 

For what it's worth I always saw Kanye as a goofy ass clown at best, with categorically overrated music...and yet he's proven time and time again that he's an utter piece of shit. There comes a point where you can't really use mental illness as an excuse for simply being a bad egg. Literally millions of Americans struggle with mental illnesses of varying types and degrees, I'd bet a good chunk of my money that the overwhelming majority of them are decent people.

I honestly can't wait to see the day his career finally sputters and dies for good, if such a thing is in the works.

Also, Trump is an equally large pile of manure (being generous). You'll give yourself a stroke trying to apply any sort of logic or decency to any of his decisions.
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Ex El Ex El Ex
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2021 8:53 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 1:41 pm 
 

Can't really distance yourself from the circus when clown makeup is directly tattoed on your skin.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:48 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
For what it's worth I always saw Kanye as a goofy ass clown at best, with categorically overrated music...and yet he's proven time and time again that he's an utter piece of shit.

He outed himself as an actual scumbag the moment he declared his support for Trump. I gotta feel sorry for him, as you've got to have some serious cognitive dissonance or self-hatred going on to be black and support a huge bigot at the same time, but he just keeps putting his foot in his mouth.
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ZenoMarx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 852
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:36 pm 
 

Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
MalignantTyrant wrote:
For what it's worth I always saw Kanye as a goofy ass clown at best, with categorically overrated music...and yet he's proven time and time again that he's an utter piece of shit.

He outed himself as an actual scumbag the moment he declared his support for Trump. I gotta feel sorry for him, as you've got to have some serious cognitive dissonance or self-hatred going on to be black and support a huge bigot at the same time, but he just keeps putting his foot in his mouth.

Not a great combination of being mentally ill, living in a sphere where everyone feeds into your every whim, and maybe worst of all, being a contrarian. It's his gut reaction to do the opposite. In ways, I can see how he and Trump could be best friends. They don't know anything, but the world treats them as if they have the answers to everything. I'm surprised Musk wasn't at that summit. Cults of personality for gather.

I think it was Rolling Stone that did an article on how insane it is to work for KW. Literally, every whim and fleeting desire is given to him. Move an entire office and operation one day, and then for no reason, move it to another location the next day. Firing people because they wear the wrong color or because they didn't answer some benign question the right way. A bona fide lunatic with unbridled power. Sound familiar? It's concerning enough when the homeless guy sitting next to you at the train station is unhinged and acting out of their mind. Now think of the same behavior, but with someone who has nearly limitless power over an entire company. All those lives depending on this guy to not suddenly change his mind and make what they did worthless or cause their position in the company to be worthless. Musk does that same shit with his employees. Total and utter disregard for anyone other than themselves. Zero responsibility for their actions...and then celebrated for it because they somehow...and this is where the world loses me...have fooled everyone into thinking their genius is so godlike that they can fix any problem they decide to fix. Like Bill Maher not wanting to insult Musk because he might solve the climate crisis. We don't want to dare insult our geniuses. They might take their ball and go home. I wish.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1474
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:46 am 
 

ZenoMarx wrote:
Lord_Of_Diamonds wrote:
MalignantTyrant wrote:
For what it's worth I always saw Kanye as a goofy ass clown at best, with categorically overrated music...and yet he's proven time and time again that he's an utter piece of shit.

He outed himself as an actual scumbag the moment he declared his support for Trump. I gotta feel sorry for him, as you've got to have some serious cognitive dissonance or self-hatred going on to be black and support a huge bigot at the same time, but he just keeps putting his foot in his mouth.

Not a great combination of being mentally ill, living in a sphere where everyone feeds into your every whim, and maybe worst of all, being a contrarian. It's his gut reaction to do the opposite. In ways, I can see how he and Trump could be best friends. They don't know anything, but the world treats them as if they have the answers to everything. I'm surprised Musk wasn't at that summit. Cults of personality for gather.

I think it was Rolling Stone that did an article on how insane it is to work for KW. Literally, every whim and fleeting desire is given to him. Move an entire office and operation one day, and then for no reason, move it to another location the next day. Firing people because they wear the wrong color or because they didn't answer some benign question the right way. A bona fide lunatic with unbridled power. Sound familiar? It's concerning enough when the homeless guy sitting next to you at the train station is unhinged and acting out of their mind. Now think of the same behavior, but with someone who has nearly limitless power over an entire company. All those lives depending on this guy to not suddenly change his mind and make what they did worthless or cause their position in the company to be worthless. Musk does that same shit with his employees. Total and utter disregard for anyone other than themselves. Zero responsibility for their actions...and then celebrated for it because they somehow...and this is where the world loses me...have fooled everyone into thinking their genius is so godlike that they can fix any problem they decide to fix. Like Bill Maher not wanting to insult Musk because he might solve the climate crisis. We don't want to dare insult our geniuses. They might take their ball and go home. I wish.


Well, Bill Maher has something in common with Musk, he's an imbecile who somehow convinced many people he was very smart.

As for Kanye West, I don't think it's self-hatred, it's more "I got mine so fuck you", meaning he managed to achieve great success, so everyone should be able to. Some sort of survivor bias. Mixed with an unhealthy dose of narcissism and genuine mental illnesses and some very weird religious zealotry.

Billionaires are becoming unhinged as of late: Trump, Rowling, Kanye (I think he lost his billionaire status, but he was one and is still a megamillionaire), Musk... Too much money rots the brain, maybe.

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ZenoMarx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 852
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:04 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
it's more "I got mine so fuck you", meaning he managed to achieve great success, so everyone should be able to.
This is how Jesse Ventura got elected governor of Minnesota. The US's odd and problematic relationship with the individual, "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", "if I did it, you can too", and "if I had to do it, so should everyone else." I mention Ventura because, for me, that's when this sickness revealed itself. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater because you have a personality that plays into every insecurity and illness of the "downtrodden" via bravado and all kinds of other toxicities. I'm getting off track, but yeah, Ventura. Twisted people turning other twisted people.

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CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
Posts: 1777
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:11 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
Well, Bill Maher has something in common with Musk, he's an imbecile who somehow convinced many people he was very smart.

As for Kanye West, I don't think it's self-hatred, it's more "I got mine so fuck you", meaning he managed to achieve great success, so everyone should be able to. Some sort of survivor bias. Mixed with an unhealthy dose of narcissism and genuine mental illnesses and some very weird religious zealotry.

Billionaires are becoming unhinged as of late: Trump, Rowling, Kanye (I think he lost his billionaire status, but he was one and is still a megamillionaire), Musk... Too much money rots the brain, maybe.


Maybe, it has something to do with the fact that it's becoming more socially acceptable for billionaires to communicate their bullshit to the masses.

Elon Musk getting on Twitter and telling the world we have a shortage of humans on this earth really angers up the blood.

I think Bill Maher is a turd, also.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:44 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
As for Kanye West, I don't think it's self-hatred, it's more "I got mine so fuck you", meaning he managed to achieve great success, so everyone should be able to. Some sort of survivor bias. Mixed with an unhealthy dose of narcissism and genuine mental illnesses and some very weird religious zealotry.

It's a really weird phenomenon still, though, isn't it? Like, it defies logic. And naturally the right snaps up any member of a downtrodden group who speaks ill of their own group, calling them "based" and all that. There are few things I have more contempt for in the current political landscape than downtrodden group/minority members who go against or are skeptical of the advancement of their own groups or others. Not only because the right snaps them up ("one of the good ones"), but because they automatically have more credibility as members of the groups they're speaking ill of, they're easier to listen to for useful idiots. And again, the existence of a racist black person or a transphobic queer person simply defies logic and you have to have some serious privilege, cognitive dissonance, or self-hatred to think that way.
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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:08 pm 
 

Curious Dead wrote.[/quote]

Well, Bill Maher has something in common with Musk, he's an imbecile who somehow convinced many people he was very smart.

As for Kanye West, I don't think it's self-hatred, it's more "I got mine so fuck you", meaning he managed to achieve great success, so everyone should be able to. Some sort of survivor bias. Mixed with an unhealthy dose of narcissism and genuine mental illnesses and some very weird religious zealotry.

Billionaires are becoming unhinged as of late: Trump, Rowling, Kanye (I think he lost his billionaire status, but he was one and is still a megamillionaire), Musk... Too much money rots the brain, maybe.[/quote]




I don't know why people don't like Bill Marr.

I like him most of the time and watch his show fairly often. If anything, there's just certain things he says at times to appease the right that I don't like, but most of the time his takes on things are quite liberal and I do think he's intelligent, so I'm not sure why people who probably also share liberal views dislike him.

Can you specifically name a few things he has said that you really think are imbecilic?

Because even if you can, I could probably name (well, I might need a reminder by watching the show) more things he's said that are quite intelligent.

And I mean, he hates Trump and everything the GOP and modern republicans think for the most part, as do we, so what's not to like?

I mean, he's definitely more on the "right side of the equation" in terms of regardless of the fact that he calls himself a libertarian, he's really more of a liberal, and I'd assume you are a liberal too, so yeah, I don't get it.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:15 pm 
 

CoconutBackwards wrote:
Curious_dead wrote:
Well, Bill Maher has something in common with Musk, he's an imbecile who somehow convinced many people he was very smart.

As for Kanye West, I don't think it's self-hatred, it's more "I got mine so fuck you", meaning he managed to achieve great success, so everyone should be able to. Some sort of survivor bias. Mixed with an unhealthy dose of narcissism and genuine mental illnesses and some very weird religious zealotry.

Billionaires are becoming unhinged as of late: Trump, Rowling, Kanye (I think he lost his billionaire status, but he was one and is still a megamillionaire), Musk... Too much money rots the brain, maybe.


Maybe, it has something to do with the fact that it's becoming more socially acceptable for billionaires to communicate their bullshit to the masses.

Elon Musk getting on Twitter and telling the world we have a shortage of humans on this earth really angers up the blood.

I think Bill Maher is a turd, also.


Once again, what don't you like about Bill Maher?

I usually think his takes on things are quite aligned with my own. Not all the time of course, but he's certainly opposed to most things that the republicans are doing these days, as are most of the people on this forum, so I think he's an odd person to criticize when he certainly would agree that people like Kanye, Hershel Walker, Trump, Marjorie Taylor Greene, etc. and all the people we hate are idiots.

He seems in full agreement that Trump should be penalized to the full extent of the law for everything he's done, and that most MAGA people are idiots. He's accepting of gays and trans, he's pro choice, pro drug legalization, etc. Really, i don't get what you guys are criticizing about him.

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Ezadara
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 6:28 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Once again, what don't you like about Bill Maher?

I think on a surface level Maher is fine, obviously not on the same level as a Herschel Walker or MGT, but there's just a lot of points where he comes across as out of touch. I mean, he's not all that 'accepting' of trans people, since he tends to spout the same debunked anti-science talking points from the right wing about healthcare for transgender youth being harmful or medically unsound-- he's not outright hateful towards trans people, I guess, but that's a pretty low bar, and certainly doesn't make him accepting. He's done similar things-- not being the absolute worst, but being out of touch or ignorant at best-- about a host of things, from Middle East immigration and vaccination to COVID and racism. And oh my god is his constant 'wokeness/political correctness is a massive societal problem!' crap annoying. It's not. We have real problems to deal with.

Also, though I think few people on the left hold this against him, his anti-religious stances are actually pretty unenlightened. I'm 100% supportive of secularism and separation of church and state, but he constantly gets basic theological and historical questions about religion wrong and his smug attitude towards the religious isn't all that impressive either.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:23 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Once again, what don't you like about Bill Maher?

I think on a surface level Maher is fine, obviously not on the same level as a Herschel Walker or MGT, but there's just a lot of points where he comes across as out of touch. I mean, he's not all that 'accepting' of trans people, since he tends to spout the same debunked anti-science talking points from the right wing about healthcare for transgender youth being harmful or medically unsound-- he's not outright hateful towards trans people, I guess, but that's a pretty low bar, and certainly doesn't make him accepting. He's done similar things-- not being the absolute worst, but being out of touch or ignorant at best-- about a host of things, from Middle East immigration and vaccination to COVID and racism. And oh my god is his constant 'wokeness/political correctness is a massive societal problem!' crap annoying. It's not. We have real problems to deal with.

Also, though I think few people on the left hold this against him, his anti-religious stances are actually pretty unenlightened. I'm 100% supportive of secularism and separation of church and state, but he constantly gets basic theological and historical questions about religion wrong and his smug attitude towards the religious isn't all that impressive either.


I've never heard him come across as transphobic. I've heard him question whether or not little kids should get operations, which honestly I think is something that a lot of thought should be put into. He had 2 gay people on there (forget their names but one was the guy who writes for the Atlantic which is IMO a great paper), both a gay man and a lesbian, who agreed that many young kids who think they are of the other gender might actually be gay and at times we should be more wary about just giving them those operations right off the bat without considering whether or not they might change their minds.

He has said some stupid stuff about Covid recently that have made me think he doesn't take it seriously enough, but when it was at its worst he was in full support of masking, social distancing and vaccination from what i saw.

Not sure about his immigration stance, and his anti-religious stuff is just typical. I can't say I disagree with him about how destructive organized religion can be.

I also haven't heard him say anything to make me think he doesn't align with most of the lefts values towards racism. I'm pretty sure I've heard him talk about how bad the cops can be towards blacks etc.

So yeah, the only thing I can think of him saying recently I didn't like was something about not taking Covid so seriously which did bug me.

Otherwise, I mean, he's a liberal. I know libertarians and they don't like him and more than one of them have said they don't think he's libertarian despite what he says, that he's really a liberal who calls himself a libertarian, and I think I'd agree.

Really, most of the things that come out of his mouth are aligned with the left, and he HATES Trump and pretty much the entire GOP and the direction most of our country is headed.

Like, he's mostly on "our side" as far as the fact that most of the people on this forum seem to be liberal.

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rarezuzuh
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:00 pm 
 

You aren't able to perceive Maher's ignorance on trans issues because you have the exact same ignorance on trans issues.

Edit: I'm not saying this to be rude, but rather because you're perpetuating false information in a way that may damage people's lives. Nobody is giving trans kids surgery. Bill Maher is not an authority on the subject, and we all deserve better than his gut reaction to a half understood anecdote. Please don't contribute to this.

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Ill-Starred Son
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
Posts: 1420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:26 pm 
 

rarezuzuh wrote:
You aren't able to perceive Maher's ignorance on trans issues because you have the exact same ignorance on trans issues.

Edit: I'm not saying this to be rude, but rather because you're perpetuating false information in a way that may damage people's lives. Nobody is giving trans kids surgery. Bill Maher is not an authority on the subject, and we all deserve better than his gut reaction to a half understood anecdote. Please don't contribute to this.


If I do share this ignorance then so does Andrew Sullivan of the Atlantic, who is himself a gay man. Sullivan said himself that he was concerned because he had habits at a young age that could have made parents and psychologists urge him to transition, when in fact he was happy being a gay man. Because he understands more about this than me, I defer to him, as I'm a straight man, and I'd assume gay men would understand more about this than straight men. On that particular episode there was also a lesbian guest, and she shared this view.

So, if I am I really wrong that there are a fair number of very young kids who are having these surgeries then I apologize. I just don't think most children have the insight to make choices that determine the rest of their lives. Whatever they do at age 18, or hell, even age 14, is an entirely different matter, but I wouldn't have trusted myself at age 5 or 10 to make such a decision about my future.

I think that any and all adults who want to transition should have every right to do so and be called by whatever pronouns they want and protected from hate crimes etc. But the only thing I've ever heard Maher or anyone on his show say that seemed like it could have been viewed as transphobic are his comments about kids transitioning.


Last edited by Ill-Starred Son on Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
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rarezuzuh
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:33 pm
Posts: 217
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:36 pm 
 

Yes, you are wrong that these surgeries are being performed on children. Flat out incorrect on every level. Andrew Sullivan is not an authority on trans issues either. It's as if you are starting from the base assumption that being trans is essentially the same thing as being gay, and therefore giving undue weight to the opinions of any gay person who happens to reinforce your misconceptions. If you genuinely want to understand, you should be listening to trans people, not fake enlightened centrist freaks like sullivan.

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Ill-Starred Son
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:40 pm 
 

rarezuzuh wrote:
Yes, you are wrong that these surgeries are being performed on children. Flat out incorrect on every level. Andrew Sullivan is not an authority on trans issues either. It's as if you are starting from the base assumption that being trans is essentially the same thing as being gay, and therefore giving undue weight to the opinions of any gay person who happens to reinforce your misconceptions. If you genuinely want to understand, you should be listening to trans people, not fake enlightened centrist freaks like sullivan.


It's not something that happens with any frequency?

Ok, then I apologize. And no, I don't believe being trans is the same as being gay, but I believe that a gay person could more easily put themselves in the position of being viewed as another gender than a straight one, and he said that as a kid he was viewed as very feminine and could have imagined the idea being pushed on him.

I'm backing out of this before people start flaming me or calling me transphobic or whatever, which is probably already going to happen, but I'm very much not. I believe whatever anyone does with their own body at the age of 18 or older is their own business, whether it's transitioning, any kind of drug use that doesn't involve driving, body modification of any kind, you name it.

And yes, i am certainly open to listening to what trans people have to say.

On a different note, I think Andrew Sullivan is a very good writer and that the Atlantic has excellent articles which support a lot of liberal viewpoints that I stand by.


Last edited by Ill-Starred Son on Thu Dec 01, 2022 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rarezuzuh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:47 pm 
 

I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of the entire history of transgender related surgeries and how they may have been practiced over the whole world throughout history, but the fearmongering about trans kids getting surgeries in the US is complete nonsense with no connection to our current reality. The standard course of action for children is social transition and puberty blockers.

I am trans myself, but I spent the first decades of my life unable to recognize it or deal with it properly because I had absorbed the message that it was the same as being gay, and I knew I wasn't gay. You have to understand that it's incredibly frustrating to hear people perpetuate a false narrative about this without listening at all to the people affected by it.

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Ill-Starred Son
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:10 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:53 pm 
 

rarezuzuh wrote:
I don't have encyclopedic knowledge of the entire history of transgender related surgeries and how they may have been practiced over the whole world throughout history, but the fearmongering about trans kids getting surgeries in the US is complete nonsense with no connection to our current reality. The standard course of action for children is social transition and puberty blockers.

I am trans myself, but I spent the first decades of my life unable to recognize it or deal with it properly because I had absorbed the message that it was the same as being gay, and I knew I wasn't gay. You have to understand that it's incredibly frustrating to hear people perpetuate a false narrative about this without listening at all to the people affected by it.


Oh I'm sorry then that I have misunderstood this. I mean, I knew there was some amount of fear mongering going on, but I wasn't aware that it's really just adults who are getting these surgeries, and I fully support them and you.

That's disappointing that Sullivan would have perpetuated that myth. Maybe that's not what he was saying, maybe he was more saying he feared the label being pushed on gays, etc, but he seemed to be hinting at it.

I still don't really see why so many people are saying they hate Bill Maher though. He's mainly a liberal and supports most of the viewpoints of the liberals I know, which is basically my entire family who watch him regularly. They do sometimes tell me they are disappointed in some of his statements, and I have heard him say some ignorant things, but usually he seems to be on the "right side" of issues as far as I'm concerned.

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Ezadara
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:47 am 
 

Honestly, aside from some of the dumb crap he says, I think people just find his attitude kind of grating. Probably there's also some irritation at the fact that he's somehow finagled his way into being seen as a political commentator when his political insights are uninspired at best and comically erroneous at worst. Like, there is no reason Bill Maher's opinions should be headlines on The Hill and there is sure as hell no reason why Bill Maher should feel qualified to tell the Dem party leadership how to win elections. He's a comedian (a decent one from what I can recall of his old stand-up stuff) and he should be regarded as just that. Not a political commentator, not an analyst, not a critical religious scholar (lol), a comedian.

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Benedict Donald
Veteran

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 3052
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 9:23 am 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...the Atlantic has excellent articles...


Indeed. It's an excellent source.

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Defenestrated
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:50 pm
Posts: 295
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:20 am 
 

Re. Bill Maher: Some of this, eh...might not have aged well (apologies), but Norm Macdonald's take on him I find funny:

Spoiler: show


"I'm very un-learn-ed..."

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ZenoMarx
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 852
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 12:37 pm 
 

If Maher has any sort of research team, they are piss-poor at their job. It's amazing how rudimentary his understanding is of issues. He reads a tweet or a headline and forms huge, sweeping, over-confident opinions and then fixates on them forever. No new information seems to sink in, nor does anyone on his staff seem to correct him.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10527
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2022 3:15 pm 
 

Andrew Sullivan is a racist piece of shit Tory, just because he's gay doesn't mean he's not a conservative fuckwit. It was hilarious seeing him be such a fragile racist douchebag on Jon Stewart's show last year, with Jon repeatedly trying to give him benefit of doubt because he genuinely wanted to "open a dialogue" only to realize it's futile because the guy is constantly in bad faith. But that should be no surprise from the guy who claimed The Bell Curve was worth reading lol

Bill Maher is a moron who regurgitates transphobic myths, anti-BLM, and anti-science horseshit repeatedly whilst mocking sexual assault victims and constantly crying about "cancel culture". He also cozied up to vile bigots like Milo and Ben Shapiro. Just because he hates the lowest of the lowest scumbags like MTG or Trump doesn't make him smart or liberal. The only "liberal" thing about him is that he hates religious conservatives.

Seriously, being anti-Trump doesn't mean you can't be a bigoted piece of shit, it just means you cleared the lowest of the low bars.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1474
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:20 pm 
 

So, uh, I don't think Kanye is going to be president... Or vice-president, or a party candidate, at this point.

I guess he didn't realize that to be a Republican, you have to be an antisemite that pretends to love them a lot by making sure any criticism against Israel is labeled as antisemitism. Denying the Holocaust and posting swastikas is a step too far even for the GOP (for now).

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ZenoMarx
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 852
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:13 pm 
 

What is going on in AZ with the shipping container "wall" is amazing. This reminds me of the libertarian argument that markets and people can readily and smartly control issues. That we don't need government or regulation (unless it suits them, of course). In short, they're full of shit. By the time markets and people and whatever react, even in the right direction, it can be too late. Like McConnell with fucking Obama out of a supreme court pick, this guy knows it is against a slew of laws. He knows by the time the courts react, he'll have his useless wall up. He knows it is more likely than not that it'll be left alone once it is there. Are they going to spend more millions of dollars tearing it down and doing even more destruction to the land? Lands where bullshit like this is against the law. I didn't know about this until today. I bet most of the country is unaware of this as well.

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sjal
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Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:15 am
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2022 10:29 am 
 

ZenoMarx wrote:
think of the same behavior, but with someone who has nearly limitless power over an entire company. All those lives depending on this guy to not suddenly change his mind and make what they did worthless or cause their position in the company to be worthless. Musk does that same shit with his employees. Total and utter disregard for anyone other than themselves. Zero responsibility for their actions...

People like these on whom a lot of other people (both employees and users) depend really need to pay more attention to their own responsibility and also need to have more respect and listen to the people who try to ensure normal and reliable operation of such internet platforms like Twitter plus continue to do them relatively "safe" (with content moderation and tackle disinformation, etc.), and also need to be aware that these social networks can be used not only for posting some random thoughts and opinions about something/or for some political 'games' but also for posting more practical and useful information that might be really important for people.
I just read about this in foreign news that the Finnish government and the police/rescue services who have been used Twitter to inform the citizens of the country are looking 'in advance' for alternatives because they don't consider Twitter reliable enough anymore - which is not surprising. - https://www.euractiv.com/section/politi ... h-twitter/
Here in Ukraine we don't have such a critical reliance on Twitter* (sometimes people here actively use it when there is a need to spread an information about a need to sign some important petition that is related to some internal situations in Ukraine or to spread an information about some charitable companies, but I think in general people in Ukraine (both ordinary people and officials) use Twitter much more for communication/spreading information with/to people from other countries (as well as for reading people from other countries) than for spreading information within the country; the Ukrainian police, The State Emergency Service, the government, etc. use Facebook (which is also far from perfect, and does not seem reliable) to post the news/information/instructions about different situations for people, but at the same time you can find the news/information/instructions on their own official websites, plus in some cases during this war we even received a few SMS messages with certain information/instructions (what to do in certain situations) from The State Emergency Service on mobile phones; and for reading/posting local/regional news and some important information + to discuss it we usually use Telegram channels these days), but now I think that maybe there are some other examples of countries like Finland for which the use of Twitter for internal needs and for their (national) security and awareness+safety of people is also that important.

*although it should be mentioned that work of certain people/organizations (and the ability to provide any communication in the most critical situations in general) in Ukraine, and especially the military on the front line, are very dependent on the normal and uninterrupted operation of the satellite Internet provided by SpaceX's Starlink - so ensuring informative/communication-related security in Ukraine these days is also partly dependent on an Elon Musk's company.

Spoiler: show
sorry if this is too offtopic for this thread, I don't have much to say on the subject of internal US politics here, sometimes it's way too hard for me to figure out what's going on in Ukrainian politics, which also can be quite messy and confusing, and sometimes disturbing (so I'm just trying to be at least knowledgeable enough to vote for "normal" pro-Ukrainian and pro-EU+democratic candidates in the all-Ukrainian and local elections, for those who are not pro-oligarchs, and who support normal and effective reforms (including the fight against corruption) and social programs that will make the lives of ordinary people a little easier (and at the same time who are not useless populists), and who continue support decentralization, etc.), leave alone internal politics of other countries.

Morrigan wrote:
Since the nightmare is over, figured we'd retire the previous thread and start a new one for discussing US politics.

I think one of the most memorable moments that is 'accidentally' related to this side of history (and about the risks of it in future?..) of US politics for me was when I just decided to spend some time doing some practical exercises for my English and remembered that I wanted to know more detailed differences between certain synonymous adjectives and went looking for some more detailed explanations of these differences with examples from native speakers, and on one of the web pages which google search gave me saw those random Trump-including examples -

Donald Trump in possession of the nuclear codes is scary.
Donald Trump shaking your hand for too long is creepy.
Donald Trump winning any election is unsettling.
Donald Trump actually being my President is horrifying.
The thought that I might come to Donald Trump’s attention is terrifying.
The fact that nearly half the American electorate voted for Donald Trump is disturbing.


https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-differe ... _to_mweb=1

- And after that, and as someone who has an anxiety disorder, and especially these days, I decided that it's better for me to avoid any more detailed information about this side of US politics.

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mjollnir
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:14 pm
Posts: 2056
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:12 pm 
 

:lol: :lol: :lol: I just got moderated at the Newsmax Facebook page!! All I want to know is, 1) Why they are so worried about a laptop when their cult leader tried to overthrow the government? and 2) Where can we find republican Jesus in the Bible since the person I found named Jesus was a pacifist and a communist. They won't let me comment any more. :lol:
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Footless
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:59 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:23 pm 
 

mjollnir wrote:
Where can we find republican Jesus in the Bible since the person I found named Jesus was a pacifist and a communist. They won't let me comment any more. :lol:


This is the truth. Had he been born in modern times, Jesus would have certainly been a laid back, easygoing stoner, not a short-haired capitalist worried about the length of his lawn and whether or not trans people were aloud to use public restrooms.
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mjollnir
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:14 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:38 pm 
 

Footless wrote:
mjollnir wrote:
Where can we find republican Jesus in the Bible since the person I found named Jesus was a pacifist and a communist. They won't let me comment any more. :lol:


This is the truth. Had he been born in modern times, Jesus would have certainly been a laid back, easygoing stoner, not a short-haired capitalist worried about the length of his lawn and whether or not trans people were aloud to use public restrooms.

I did a social experiment of sorts. I am also flabbergasted at the amount of women not only posting there but its like they are star struck by Trump....and now Elon the Choad. If I were a woman, knowing both of their personal histories, the mere sound of their names would invoke my vomit reflexes.
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Defenestrated
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:50 pm
Posts: 295
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:41 pm 
 

The best line on that: "Obama isn't a radical brown-skinned antiwar socialist who gives away free health care. You're thinking of Jesus."

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 1618
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 2:14 pm 
 

mjollnir wrote:
I did a social experiment of sorts. I am also flabbergasted at the amount of women not only posting there but its like they are star struck by Trump....and now Elon the Choad. If I were a woman, knowing both of their personal histories, the mere sound of their names would invoke my vomit reflexes.

It's that self hatred/privilege thing I talked about earlier. Or they just have deep prejudice of their own despite being members of a downtrodden group, or they have some right wing ideals and so they throw in with people like that. It truly defies logic, to see people supporting people who are prejudiced against their groups.
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ZenoMarx
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Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:38 am
Posts: 852
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:37 pm 
 

Can anyone figure out Mike Pence? I don't mean he's a robotic christian wingnut. I've watched a couple interviews now on his new book tour, and I can't get a good read on him. That robotic, deadpan delivery offers up an odd authenticity X factor. He's clearly full of shit and politicing through his teeth, but he gets about as close to "this fuck believes his own bullshit" as any of them can. It's kind of scary. Margaret Hoover tried to get him to say Trump's name twenty different ways, and like McConnell, he said everything but Trump by name. It's fucking bizarre. What kind of adolescent caveman brains are we dealing with here that you can clearly be talking about someone, but until the name is said, the horde of knuckledraggers are kept in their cage? Is it as simple as a dog command, or do the knuckledraggers actually not connect who he is talking about and Trump until someone unlocks it all for them with Trump by name? The GOP heads can talk about Trump for an hour straight, and the horde hardly claps back, but two seconds after they say "Trump", the horde loses its shit. Who do they think they were talking about for an hour?

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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
Posts: 3052
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:10 pm 
 

mjollnir wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I just got moderated at the Newsmax Facebook page!! All I want to know is, 1) Why they are so worried about a laptop when their cult leader tried to overthrow the government? and 2) Where can we find republican Jesus in the Bible since the person I found named Jesus was a pacifist and a communist. They won't let me comment any more. :lol:


LMFAO!!
awesome.

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mjollnir
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Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 4:14 pm
Posts: 2056
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 7:19 pm 
 

Benedict Donald wrote:
mjollnir wrote:
:lol: :lol: :lol: I just got moderated at the Newsmax Facebook page!! All I want to know is, 1) Why they are so worried about a laptop when their cult leader tried to overthrow the government? and 2) Where can we find republican Jesus in the Bible since the person I found named Jesus was a pacifist and a communist. They won't let me comment any more. :lol:


LMFAO!!
awesome.

Must have just been a glitch. Social experiment continues. So far no one has been able to answer these and other questions nor respond intelligently.

Factual Responses = 0
Being called a libtard or other rhetorical insults =1000
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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 607
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:19 pm 
 

Footless wrote:
This is the truth. Had he been born in modern times, Jesus would have certainly been a laid back, easygoing stoner, not a short-haired capitalist worried about the length of his lawn and whether or not trans people were aloud to use public restrooms.

I mean, the historical Jesus was most likely a radical religious leader who believed the world was about to end and people had to purify themselves in preparation of it, who taught adherence to religious law (and strict adherence to the spirit of it, if not the letter), who believed his holy mission was important enough for people to abandon their families, who would probably have been viewed in his day as a cult leader and was ultimately killed by the state. If he had been born in modern times, he'd probably more closely resemble David Koresh than an easygoing stoner, or a communist, or a radical egalitarian, or the many things he's been cast as. You can interpret the Jesus of Christianity just about any way you want to fit just about any narrative you like (and conservatives who point to him and his teachings are just as mistaken, I think, as people on the left who want to frame him as one of their own).

Absolutely none of this is on topic for the thread, I'm just a real nerd about early Christianity/the historical Jesus and couldn't help myself :-D

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MalignantTyrant
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1642
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:54 pm 
 

I honestly couldn't give a hot shit who the historical Jesus was, because, at the very least, all of the stories about him are embellished to hell.

The religious just twist and bend their interpretation of what they believe Jesus and god to be to suit their agendas and whims and spew more shit out of their tax free mansions.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:45 pm 
 

For real. We don't know what Jesus was like for sure or what he would have believed or given support to in modern times, so trying to say "he would have been a communist" or "he would have smoked pot and supported gay rights" is really just you trying to appropriate a historical figure who is known in modern times through heavily stylized storytelling. For all we know, he might have thrown right in with some modern American rightist ideals.
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Defenestrated
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Joined: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:50 pm
Posts: 295
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:29 am 
 

I forget who said that our conceptions of Jesus just amount to so many idealized self-portraits. But I wouldn’t necessarily say that all such portraits are equally off the mark.

I haven’t really studied this stuff, but off the top of my head, I’m at a loss to think of any sayings attributed to Jesus that can naturally be construed as far-right. And it’s easy to think of sayings that shouldn’t sit well with bigots (“Love your neighbor as yourself,” “Whatever you do to the least of your brothers...”), or with the super-wealthy and their sycophants (“Sell your possessions...”, “It’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle...”).

The most I can think to the contrary right now would be...I dunno, “The poor will always be with you” (which could be taken as passively accepting economic injustice, maybe). Otherwise, as critics like to point out, there are the parts where he doesn’t object to certain views and practices that modernity generally finds barbarous - slavery, the subordination of women to men, etc. It’s often said that he’s “silent” on abortion and same-sex relationships - so, again, that might actually be viewed as tacit acceptance of the traditional views. There’s also the worry that the apocalypticism would undermine the motivation for sustainable environmental policies.

I’m probably missing some obvious ones, but which parts of the Bible would be favorites of the Trump supporter? (Apologies to mods if this is too far off-topic.)

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MalignantTyrant
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Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:08 am 
 

All of these interpretations are filtered through the lenses of centuries of Catholic and early Protestant beliefs that have further evolved to suit the American Trumpist xenophobe.

There are so many denominations of Christianity that I can't even remember all of them, each custom fit to the agendas and beliefs of that particular group that subscribes to it. It's really down to that.

Like the whole Southern Baptist denomination, for example. That is a uniquely American denomination, that doesn't exist really even outside the reaches of those particular parts of the country.
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