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Goatfangs
58.2% Metal

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 2557
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:17 pm 
 

People had been submitting Alestorm a lot to the point where a thread was made on January 20th about it. In short, because their first album wasn't due out until January 25th, it wasn't supposed to be submitted until then.

I think what happened (I tried to search for the old posts but it may be that the thread was deleted at some point because I am unable to find it) is that I submitted it right around 12:01 AM, but another user had submitted it a few hours earlier (on January 24th, technically not supposed to). That user had a fit, and I responded. Nightgaunt rejected both of our submissions.

After submitting Alestorm again, Nightgaunt dursted me. I still stand by my defense that I didn't realize I was "banned" from submitting Alestorm again, since it was already January 25th and it was okay to do so at that point for any regular user.

Oh, actually, it gets funnier... see - Alestorm themselves got wind that they weren't "allowed" on the Metal-Archives because of that technicality and raised a shitfit of their own over it. There was a thread on Ultimateguitar about it. It got to the point where Witcher had to post this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=34013

And I also remember exactly what thread was deleted, because it was the "Why was Band X Rejected / Deleted" thread from before June, 2008. It got erased somehow.

Oh man, back then, I was the worst fucking minimod. It is probably for the best that I assumed a new identity here because "Goatfangs" is way more metal.
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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:56 am 
 

I read some posts from back then. The forums seemed a lot more chaotic than they are now. Was it not possible to blacklist Alestorm?
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Formerly known as HouseSpiders
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MorbidEngel
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:37 pm
Posts: 943
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:51 pm 
 

It was a weirder time. I didn't use the forums but I remember a lot more Deathcore on the site (including Suicide Silence!) and I think BtBaM was still on the site then
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aloof
avant-gardener

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm
Posts: 2030
Location: never neverland, palm trees by the sea
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:58 am 
 

what's the rationale behind the Band submission queue having a 300 band limit?
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putrevomitory
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:36 am
Posts: 445
Location: Crystal Monte Carlo
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:03 am 
 

Or the submission cap to 15 bands per head? I guess it would have to the same logic behind a thread I saw on the review forum about review submissions being limited to 5 per head. Or not.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5398
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:51 pm 
 

Long story short, it makes it less daunting and stressful for us.
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aloof
avant-gardener

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm
Posts: 2030
Location: never neverland, palm trees by the sea
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:46 am 
 

thanks for the reply :) I wrote a small essay last weekend, when I initially saw it, but then scrapped it. now, as the queue is full again, I re-write...

what's the difference between having 300, or 302, or even 389 bands "queueing"? I get the frustration (maybe even stress) of a long queue of bands mods don't really fancy listening to for musical value, esp with users like me who insist on submitting any punk/rock/core band with 1.5 metal riffs they came across on bandcamp, but capping the queue does not solve that problem, merely prolongs it :/

I'd also add that if, say, there's a new, anticipated band whose album is finally released, and the queue is full, there could be several users fixing elaborate drafts of it and waiting for the desired one slot to clear, who will be disappointed at all the useless, pointless effort they put in it when the lucky user refreshes the page and beats them to it...

it's no biggie waiting, I just wanted to give a potentially unconsidered view from the other side... :)
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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:06 pm 
 

There's an interesting discussion going on here. The 300 bands limit likely reduces the total number of submissions - a new user might create a draft, but the queue is too full to submit... then they later read the rules and discover that their submission wasn't acceptable anyway, or just forget about it with time... and for one of those reasons, their band never gets submitted. That can be seen either as an upside or a downside - it's easier for the mods (less work) but bands that could have been archived might end up lost in oblivion forever. Our goal is to make this encyclopaedia as large as possible.

While I wouldn't consider any non-staffer qualified to say what makes working the band queue stressful or what doesn't... if it were me, I would also scrap the limit. 389 bands looks more daunting... but it's no worse than 300 bands in the queue with 89 bands waiting to be submitted... it more or less is 389 bands (perhaps more like 360-370 given how many I badly estimate will get forgotten about), but made to look less daunting. I suppose one upside is spam prevention, but I think more effective measures would be to set a limit of bands per user... and if there is already (I have no idea), then that's a great start. I don't know if it's possible to delete all of a user's submissions with one click... that could work.

I find myself agreeing with aloof. But maybe I'd think differently if I ever had to attempt tackling the band queue.
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Formerly known as HouseSpiders
vacca wrote:
"Pointwhoring is no fun. Pointwhoring endangers the life and happiness of millions. It must stop. We appeal in particular to the youth of today, stop the madness. There are better things in life."

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PaganiusI
Zee Bombelecher

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 3:49 pm
Posts: 933
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:46 am 
 

aloof wrote:
esp with users like me who insist on submitting any punk/rock/core band with 1.5 metal riffs they came across on bandcamp

Maybe you should start focussing on metal bands then ;P

As for submissions that get lost...you'll always get that. We have tons of bands that get rejected for lacking proof and never get touched again even though they are perfectly fine. Just look at my last 20 additions or so. Most of them are long-forgotten rejections I went through amd they turned out to be perfectly fine if the submitter cared enough to provide any sort of proof. And for bands that are newly formed, I do think our userbase is big enough to find one who brings up "forgotten" bands eventually. And since we, the staff, are doing all this in our free time, we should be allowed to make it a little more comfortable for us to work on it. 300 "core/atmospheric/post grind" bands are less frustrating than 2000, imho.
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Antioch
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:08 am
Posts: 1318
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:07 am 
 

aloof wrote:
esp with users like me who insist on submitting any punk/rock/core band with 1.5 metal riffs they came across on bandcamp

Haha. Like you, huh!? :D

Derigin wrote:
Long story short, it makes it less daunting and stressful for us.

I understand your point, Deri, but isn't it a bit more rewarding to start working on the queue while it's at 456 and go down to 300, thus seeing actual results, than to keep on approving and rejecting bands only to see the number back at 300 every time one tries to bring it down? I remember TUA had weekends when he'd clear half the queue on his own, and come monday the queue was full again.
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Subverter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:32 pm
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:44 pm 
 

This has probably been addressed already, but were a bunch of reviews deleted recently? I remember looking at albums with scores in the 90's and now some are down to 80% or less.
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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:32 pm 
 

Where is the red (!) that I thought came with the pop-up when a critical warning is sent? If a regular warning is sent, is the top message identical but without the "final"? A few people also told me about a yellow (!) for first warnings.

https://imgur.com/a/gVdGKPL
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Formerly known as HouseSpiders
vacca wrote:
"Pointwhoring is no fun. Pointwhoring endangers the life and happiness of millions. It must stop. We appeal in particular to the youth of today, stop the madness. There are better things in life."

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5398
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:00 pm 
 

Subverter wrote:
This has probably been addressed already, but were a bunch of reviews deleted recently? I remember looking at albums with scores in the 90's and now some are down to 80% or less.

We've had a few users - one in particular with a little over 100 reviews or so - who ended up deleting/terminating their accounts since we added that feature last year. That might explain why you have seen a bunch of reviews being deleted. Users are also free to delete their reviews whenever they want, so there's also a possibility they removed their reviews to fix/change them later, or simply because they no longer want them on MA.

HouseSpiders wrote:
Where is the red (!) that I thought came with the pop-up when a critical warning is sent? If a regular warning is sent, is the top message identical but without the "final"? A few people also told me about a yellow (!) for first warnings.

https://imgur.com/a/gVdGKPL

I take it klausader shared that somewhere? He did in fact get a final "red" warning there. Admittedly, I don't know what the warnings look like from the users' end, but I'll bring up the lack of a red (!) mark on the second warning up to the programmers. That's probably just an oversight if the first warning includes the mark, and the second warning does not.
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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:09 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
I take it klausader shared that somewhere? He did in fact get a final "red" warning there. Admittedly, I don't know what the warnings look like from the users' end, but I'll bring up the lack of a red (!) mark on the second warning up to the programmers. That's probably just an oversight if the first warning includes the mark, and the second warning does not.

Yes, he did share it and his choice of thread in which to share it was interesting at best. I have never seen the mark nor received any warnings... but I know a user who did receive a critical warning once and he told me that he saw a red mark, and found out that the mark is the same but different colour according to the warning type. Perhaps it disappeared since? I have no history at all of receiving warnings, so I have no idea whether the mark appears for neither, one or both warning types. I suppose (and hope) you don't often receive warnings either. :p
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Formerly known as HouseSpiders
vacca wrote:
"Pointwhoring is no fun. Pointwhoring endangers the life and happiness of millions. It must stop. We appeal in particular to the youth of today, stop the madness. There are better things in life."

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gasmask_colostomy
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 am
Posts: 536
Location: Behind the wall of fire
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:07 am 
 

Derigin wrote:
We've had a few users - one in particular with a little over 100 reviews or so - who ended up deleting/terminating their accounts

Could I ask who that user was?

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Subverter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:32 pm
Posts: 46
PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:53 pm 
 

gasmask_colostomy wrote:
Could I ask who that user was?

I think they should just delete every review that it isn't written by autothrall, but that's just me. :nods:
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putrevomitory
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:36 am
Posts: 445
Location: Crystal Monte Carlo
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:20 am 
 

About Firebreather/s
Azmodes wrote:
If it was, there is no mention of it in the thread for band deletions nor a blacklist entry.


Could it go that they were booted without a mention in this thread, given that With Ink Instead Of Blood got to be de-listed without a mention why in the same thread (does this happen that often?), but probably it's because the standards on -core seem to have tightened up. The blacklist entry part beats me.
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Visionary wrote:
Just goes to show that black metal and emo aren't always as far apart as initally thought.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9734
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:21 pm 
 

The 300 cap is honestly there for the mental health of our staff, because it's daunting and exhausting to clear 10 submissions only to see the number still so high, or worse, continue to climb upwards.

As well as both for the sanity of our mods and for the quality of the site, I would encourage submitters to focus more on unambiguously metal projects if they can, instead of submitting every half-assed bandcamp trash they come across. Just sayin'... :P

HouseSpiders wrote:
Where is the red (!) that I thought came with the pop-up when a critical warning is sent? If a regular warning is sent, is the top message identical but without the "final"? A few people also told me about a yellow (!) for first warnings.

https://imgur.com/a/gVdGKPL

A red ! is a more severe/serious warning than an orange one. It's not always a very-final-warning about everything, but it's usually a "final warning" for the behaviour you are being warned about.

For a hypothetical example, if you break a minor rule such as adding lyrics one by one, you will probably get a normal warning or even a non-warning message telling you to stop. If you do it again 1 year later after being inactive, you might get a reminder warning. And then if you continue to do it again, you may get a "final warning" upon which you will be banned if you continue the behaviour.

If you break a more serious (but not insta-bannable) rule, you might get a red warning right away because we'd want you to stop that behaviour immediately and we don't think leniency is appropriate.
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a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:47 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
A red ! is a more severe/serious warning than an orange one. It's not always a very-final-warning about everything, but it's usually a "final warning" for the behaviour you are being warned about.

For a hypothetical example, if you break a minor rule such as adding lyrics one by one, you will probably get a normal warning or even a non-warning message telling you to stop. If you do it again 1 year later after being inactive, you might get a reminder warning. And then if you continue to do it again, you may get a "final warning" upon which you will be banned if you continue the behaviour.

If you break a more serious (but not insta-bannable) rule, you might get a red warning right away because we'd want you to stop that behaviour immediately and we don't think leniency is appropriate.

Ok... I remember being told there are 3 types of messages from administration: a message, a warning and a final warning. What surprised me is that from the quoted screenshot, there is no visible red ! despite it being a final warning... maybe it's only visible when you check your profile? Derigin even questioned if it's a programmer oversight. If necessary, feel free to send me test warnings and I'll screenshot what we see from a user's end.
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Formerly known as HouseSpiders
vacca wrote:
"Pointwhoring is no fun. Pointwhoring endangers the life and happiness of millions. It must stop. We appeal in particular to the youth of today, stop the madness. There are better things in life."

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9734
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:43 pm 
 

Yeah, the "Attention: final warning" part is what tells the user the severity of the warning, rather than the colour-coded ! which just shows up on the message list. It's not the most consistent UX usage, I'll admit, but when it's a normal message it just says "Notice" and when it's a regular warning it says "Warning". :shrug:
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Midnightwards666
Heavy Metal C-3PO

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:05 am
Posts: 630
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:46 pm 
 

Ah, I get it now.
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Formerly known as HouseSpiders
vacca wrote:
"Pointwhoring is no fun. Pointwhoring endangers the life and happiness of millions. It must stop. We appeal in particular to the youth of today, stop the madness. There are better things in life."

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putrevomitory
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:36 am
Posts: 445
Location: Crystal Monte Carlo
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:49 am 
 

Whoa. Not even sure if this applies here, but these reviews for Grand Belial's Key have a curious case Mocking the Philanthropist; Castrate the Redeemer. A non-compilation compilation.
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Visionary wrote:
Just goes to show that black metal and emo aren't always as far apart as initally thought.
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i draw logos

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