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capeda
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Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:48 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:22 pm 
 

I used to be a big wresting fan back in the late 90s when WCW and WWF were at their peak. Now, I just catch WWE pay-per-views... mostly because they're so cheap ($10 per month, I remember when they used to be $40/$50 per show!) and it gives me an excuse to sit down and get drunk on Sunday afternoons. I don't watch any of their other programming, though. No Raw, no Smackdown. I still watch a bit on youtube as well, if I get curious about what I'm missing as far as WWE/NXT goes. I might make the effort to watch some NXT programs if Shinsuke Nakamura is gonna hang around for a while.

I really like what little I've seen from Lucha Underground. Seems very high quality in terms of both talent and production... but I don't have cable, so I rarely get to watch it. I like the whole vibe of the show, though. Really artsy in this weird film noir kind of way.

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ratedgdr
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:03 pm
Posts: 324
Location: Northeast Wisconsin
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:01 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
People were definitely more angry towards the PPV ending without a finish in the main event than anything else, aside from maybe how most of the RoH guys looked like 2nd rate geeks next to the New Japan stars (minus regulars for both companies like the Bucks, Michael Elgin, and Moose). Remember when Battleground 2013 ended with fucking Big Show standing tall over Bryan and Randy Orton and the match result was a no contest despite WWE promising everyone that the title match would end with a new champion? That's the closest approximation I can think of to the reaction to the ending of Global Wars, even if Global Wars was the infinitely better show overall than Battleground that year was.

I think a big reason for the backlash too was that people were starting to get really, really sick of Bullet Club at that point. I don't even know why they're still a group when not only do they have almost no original members left, but at Dominion they lost most of their matches. Even though Los Ingobernables lost ALL their matches, including the at-the-time fucking annoying but now less so considering G1's coming up decision to have Okada win the belt again, but LIdJ is the hottest stable in wrestling right now, much like Bullet Club was a year ago, and they can take the losses better than Bullet Club can. I just hope Naito wins G1 so he can then get the belt off Okada and start being a perfect cockface again, belt tossing and all.


I know another board I'm on has grown beyond sick of both BC and New Japan's involvement in RoH. I don't mind either, myself. BC is only in RoH at the strength of push that they have because I think that this is the way they will eventually put the belt back on Cole, and I rarely see much NJPW so I enjoy seeing what little I get from RoH TV.

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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:44 pm 
 

capeda wrote:
I used to be a big wresting fan back in the late 90s when WCW and WWF were at their peak. Now, I just catch WWE pay-per-views... mostly because they're so cheap ($10 per month, I remember when they used to be $40/$50 per show!) and it gives me an excuse to sit down and get drunk on Sunday afternoons. I don't watch any of their other programming, though. No Raw, no Smackdown. I still watch a bit on youtube as well, if I get curious about what I'm missing as far as WWE/NXT goes. I might make the effort to watch some NXT programs if Shinsuke Nakamura is gonna hang around for a while.

I really like what little I've seen from Lucha Underground. Seems very high quality in terms of both talent and production... but I don't have cable, so I rarely get to watch it. I like the whole vibe of the show, though. Really artsy in this weird film noir kind of way.

I haven't watched SmackDown! in years. Now that the brand split is coming back I'm gonna watch it again, I hope.

In the brand split days, SmackDown was the better show for the most part. I only remember Raw being better than SmackDown in 2004 and 2007. It was better than SmackDown! for most of 2005 as well until the Draft was over.

It's great to finally see SD! going live after all these years. Took long enough for WWE to do that. Plus what were they thinking when they moved SD to Friday nights in mid-late 2005? That was when its ratings began to decline fast.

Btw, anyone here play EWR or TEW?
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:46 pm 
 

A thing to remember about Adam Cole here is that his contract situation is still a little bit up in the air. Not to the extent that Roderick Strong's was before he announced he was leaving, but still enough that there is some doubt that he'll even stick around in RoH. He *could* sign straight with New Japan if he did leave RoH as a contracted wrestler, but you hafta know that WWE's gonna throw a bunch of money his way to come to Full Sail once his contract's up. They've already pretty much gotten Moose, and it's very likely they're gonna get both Strong and Ricochet once the latter's no longer bound to Lucha Underground.

As it pertains to New Japan's involvement with RoH, a major reason the latter is continuing to work with the former is that RoH's houses are way up across the board, even on shows that the New Japan guys aren't on. When the issue of "All our home talent look like doofs compared to the REAL stars of the show" becomes too much to handle has yet to be seen, but it's going to happen sooner or later.
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ratedgdr
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:03 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:58 pm 
 

WWE backed off on Moose now that they found out about his domestic violence arrest.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:20 am 
 

That's news to me. Sucks for him.
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1471
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:30 pm 
 

capeda wrote:
I really like what little I've seen from Lucha Underground. Seems very high quality in terms of both talent and production... but I don't have cable, so I rarely get to watch it. I like the whole vibe of the show, though. Really artsy in this weird film noir kind of way.

That's both its appeal and the main reason for those who don't care for it. It's really a "love it or hate it" kind of show. I'm in the latter camp because I like my wrestling to not be full of the shit that made me stop watching WWE/WCW, and that seems to be all LU is beyond the occasionally fun spotfest (which I can inevitably find a better version of from another company).
ratedgdr wrote:
I know another board I'm on has grown beyond sick of both BC and New Japan's involvement in RoH. I don't mind either, myself. BC is only in RoH at the strength of push that they have because I think that this is the way they will eventually put the belt back on Cole, and I rarely see much NJPW so I enjoy seeing what little I get from RoH TV.

What's the other board? There's a chance I either lurk or post on it.

I never got into the Club. Devitt seemed like a guy I would've gone crazy for a decade ago but doesn't bring the same oomph that other guys do. I don't mind him in NXT overall because I think of him as a modern-day Sting: able to be carried to greatness but comfortably above average otherwise. The series with Joe was a fine variation on the Sting/Vader classics but exposed Balor's limitations. Anderson does nothing for me, Gallows was fine as Festus but I haven't cared for him otherwise, the Young Bucks excel more in "hipster"-ish companies like PWG than in NJPW, Tama and Fale are boring as hell, and Kenny Omega is one of those guys that is fine when he's reined in but likes to go overboard on shit that take me out of a match. I'm not full-on Cornette with the Bucks or Omega (the Bucks in PWG make a strong case for being the greatest tag team of the last decade and Omega is acceptable), but I'm not in the other end of the ERMAHGERD HIGHSPOTZ!~!~!11~! spectrum
Festivus wrote:
Btw, anyone here play EWR or TEW?

Sporadically. TEW '05 being freeware always draws me back to it, but I'll go 3-4 months in-game and then not touch it for a year. I don't download any of the IRL universes and just use the in-game CornellVerse.

The developer also has his WreSpi (Wrestling Spirit) series, which is text-based matches. I've often wondered if an actual video game mode similar to TEW in scope and goal (so not like the GM mode from the WWE games) but featuring actual in-ring stuff could work. The audience for it would likely be too small to warrant it being made, though.

In regards to CWC...
I had a decent chunk of Akira Tozawa matches found on YouTube saved in a playlist. Most of them have been deleted. Methinks some McDevitt chicanery is afoot.
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Festivus
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:36 pm 
 

Yeah it's nice that EWR is so light and does not even need to be installed. And ofc, it being free and having lots of data from different years. I tend to play for like 2-3 months(game wise) and then put it off for a long time. Never went through a whole a year in it.

As for TEW, I tried it several years ago but felt a bit too elaborate. EWR was much more straight forward.
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acid_bukkake
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:57 pm 
 

It can be overwhelming and there's a big learning curve, but I like trying new ideas in TEW because I don't have the hang-up's of personal preference (since EWR is based 100% on the real wrestling landscape, using actual companies, and TEW only has original characters). I'm considering getting the newest version of TEW but I'm waiting for good press.

There's a YouTube channel called TheMeccaNetwork that has a TON of classic AJPW/NOAH matches featuring the most accessible of the Four Pillars, Kenta Kobashi. The classic Kobashi/Dr. Death match is a thing to behold, and there's a pair of incredible compilations chronicling his runs with the Triple Crown (AJPW's top title) and GHC World Heavyweight title (NOAH's top belt). Highly recommended. There's also a few Dragon Gate and joshi (Japanese women's wrestling) matches.
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ratedgdr
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Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:03 pm
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Location: Northeast Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:45 pm 
 

@acid_bukkake: That would be the Freakin Awesome Network boards.

@festivus: EWR, yes, but not lately. Nice and simple, which is in brutal contrast to TEW, which I HATE.

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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:50 am 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
It can be overwhelming and there's a big learning curve, but I like trying new ideas in TEW because I don't have the hang-up's of personal preference (since EWR is based 100% on the real wrestling landscape, using actual companies, and TEW only has original characters). I'm considering getting the newest version of TEW but I'm waiting for good press.

There's a YouTube channel called TheMeccaNetwork that has a TON of classic AJPW/NOAH matches featuring the most accessible of the Four Pillars, Kenta Kobashi. The classic Kobashi/Dr. Death match is a thing to behold, and there's a pair of incredible compilations chronicling his runs with the Triple Crown (AJPW's top title) and GHC World Heavyweight title (NOAH's top belt). Highly recommended. There's also a few Dragon Gate and joshi (Japanese women's wrestling) matches.

Aren't there any usermade database files with real wrestlers and companies for TEW?

Thanks for letting me know about this channel. But I see it also has tons of WCW and WWE videos, so I fear it might get the copyright hammer sooner or later.

ratedgdr wrote:
@acid_bukkake: That would be the Freakin Awesome Network boards.

@festivus: EWR, yes, but not lately. Nice and simple, which is in brutal contrast to TEW, which I HATE.

From what I gather, TEW seems to be very detailed and not as straight-forward as EWR.

One thing I don't like about EWR is how literal the card booking is. As in having to book the lower guys in the early slots of the show and the big shots in the late slots, thus following a ladder climbing order. I find that silly since a lot of times wrestling shows start with a match between two mid-carders or upper mid-carders in order to get people right into the show. Lots of tiems the match before the main event of Raw or SmackDown is filler between a bunch of lower midcard guys. But nooooo, if you book Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels as an opening Raw match in EWR you're "demoting them".

I also don't like how skewed the wrestlers attributes are in EWR at times. yes, I know I can edit them to my liking just fine, but if I had to do that for every worker whose attributes I don't agree much with... it take me a whole lot of time.

Oh well, it is a free game and nothing is perfect, so I can't complain much.
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dragons_secrets
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:55 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:05 am 
 

I used to play a wrestling simulator back in the day called TNM. Totally forgot about that. Never heard of TEW or EWR. I play the GM Mode in Raw Vs. Smackdown 2007 a lot though. That was the best year they ever had BECAUSE of that mode. Sure, 2006 and 2008 had it too but 07 is still the best. It's a shame they never expanded on that past 2008 or made an entire game based on the GM Mode. They can take my money right now if they ever did that.
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acid_bukkake
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:42 am 
 

Festivus,
The user-made universes for TEW is what keep the game a success. They're everywhere, most easily found on the Greydog Software (publisher) forums.
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Festivus
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
Posts: 1378
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:38 pm 
 

dragons_secrets wrote:
I used to play a wrestling simulator back in the day called TNM. Totally forgot about that. Never heard of TEW or EWR. I play the GM Mode in Raw Vs. Smackdown 2007 a lot though. That was the best year they ever had BECAUSE of that mode. Sure, 2006 and 2008 had it too but 07 is still the best. It's a shame they never expanded on that past 2008 or made an entire game based on the GM Mode. They can take my money right now if they ever did that.

And I've never heard of TNM.

Oh SvR 2007? I can't go back to the GM mode in that game after playing EWR.

Speaking of wrestling videogames, I miss the days when each wrestling game was quite unique and not a carbon copy of its predecessor. And also when each console had its own wrestling game series. Once the SmackDown! series turned into SmackDown vs. Raw, they began treating wrestling games as legit sports game series such as FIFA/PES/NBA2k/etc. and caring more about realistic graphics than the gameplay. I wish they had made more Day of Reckoning games. And it can't be a coincidence that WWF No Mercy is still considered the best wrestling game ever by many people after all these years. So the Nintendo console exclusive wrestling games definitely did something right gameplay wise.

That being said, SD! games were fun and had big rosters and lots of different match types. But the CAW and story modes were inferior to the ones in Day of Reckoning 2, per example. And I disliked how they tried to make the games realistic to the point of female wrestlers not being allowed to face male wrestlers. Hell in Shut Your Mouth you could still create a female wrestler and assign her gender as male... this sounds quite tumbleresque but in a WWE game a fan should be allowed to have a chance with ANYONE from the roster. Treat wrestling games more like fighting games than recreational sports games. Wrestling is a fictional universe, so I doubt many people would bitch if Becky Lynch got a higher skil lrating than a male jobber or lower mid-carder in a WWE game.
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dragons_secrets
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:55 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:51 am 
 

Festivus wrote:
dragons_secrets wrote:
I used to play a wrestling simulator back in the day called TNM. Totally forgot about that. Never heard of TEW or EWR. I play the GM Mode in Raw Vs. Smackdown 2007 a lot though. That was the best year they ever had BECAUSE of that mode. Sure, 2006 and 2008 had it too but 07 is still the best. It's a shame they never expanded on that past 2008 or made an entire game based on the GM Mode. They can take my money right now if they ever did that.

And I've never heard of TNM.

Oh SvR 2007? I can't go back to the GM mode in that game after playing EWR.

Speaking of wrestling videogames, I miss the days when each wrestling game was quite unique and not a carbon copy of its predecessor. And also when each console had its own wrestling game series. Once the SmackDown! series turned into SmackDown vs. Raw, they began treating wrestling games as legit sports game series such as FIFA/PES/NBA2k/etc. and caring more about realistic graphics than the gameplay. I wish they had made more Day of Reckoning games. And it can't be a coincidence that WWF No Mercy is still considered the best wrestling game ever by many people after all these years. So the Nintendo console exclusive wrestling games definitely did something right gameplay wise.


That being said, SD! games were fun and had big rosters and lots of different match types. But the CAW and story modes were inferior to the ones in Day of Reckoning 2, per example. And I disliked how they tried to make the games realistic to the point of female wrestlers not being allowed to face male wrestlers. Hell in Shut Your Mouth you could still create a female wrestler and assign her gender as male... this sounds quite tumbleresque but in a WWE game a fan should be allowed to have a chance with ANYONE from the roster. Treat wrestling games more like fighting games than recreational sports games. Wrestling is a fictional universe, so I doubt many people would bitch if Becky Lynch got a higher skil lrating than a male jobber or lower mid-carder in a WWE game.


Ah yeah TNM was literally late 90's. I remember playing that on Windows 95. I haven't played any the WWE games on Xbox or N64 but I hear good things about a lot of those. However, I prefer the more realistic wrestling as opposed to a fighting game style. I hate when a finisher doesn't get a 3 count the same way when I hate when guys on Madden football games catch a pass while they got 5 guys covering them. It's just dumb to me. The main thing about the GM mode that is dumb though is that the opposing show never runs out of money or has jobbers on their roster and the only real way to "win" the year is to pull a legend out of retirement for a few months and do a "5 star" feud with a top guy.
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Festivus
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:51 pm 
 

dragons_secrets wrote:

Ah yeah TNM was literally late 90's. I remember playing that on Windows 95. I haven't played any the WWE games on Xbox or N64 but I hear good things about a lot of those. However, I prefer the more realistic wrestling as opposed to a fighting game style. I hate when a finisher doesn't get a 3 count the same way when I hate when guys on Madden football games catch a pass while they got 5 guys covering them. It's just dumb to me. The main thing about the GM mode that is dumb though is that the opposing show never runs out of money or has jobbers on their roster and the only real way to "win" the year is to pull a legend out of retirement for a few months and do a "5 star" feud with a top guy.

Well using legends or CAWs isn't really cheating since the game allows you that option.

I've only played the GM mode in SvR 06 and 07 about twice against the CPU. Losing to it in the first couple of times. Also, aren't you allowed to have infinite money once you beat it for the first time ever? I don't recall what I did to beat the GM mode for the first time, but pretty sure I added Stone Cold and The Rock to my show, yes. After beating both games GM mode, I just controlled both brands(my PS2 slim came with two controllers) and had fun pushing CAWs to the top.
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dragons_secrets
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:55 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 1:20 am 
 

Festivus wrote:
dragons_secrets wrote:

Ah yeah TNM was literally late 90's. I remember playing that on Windows 95. I haven't played any the WWE games on Xbox or N64 but I hear good things about a lot of those. However, I prefer the more realistic wrestling as opposed to a fighting game style. I hate when a finisher doesn't get a 3 count the same way when I hate when guys on Madden football games catch a pass while they got 5 guys covering them. It's just dumb to me. The main thing about the GM mode that is dumb though is that the opposing show never runs out of money or has jobbers on their roster and the only real way to "win" the year is to pull a legend out of retirement for a few months and do a "5 star" feud with a top guy.

Well using legends or CAWs isn't really cheating since the game allows you that option.

I've only played the GM mode in SvR 06 and 07 about twice against the CPU. Losing to it in the first couple of times. Also, aren't you allowed to have infinite money once you beat it for the first time ever? I don't recall what I did to beat the GM mode for the first time, but pretty sure I added Stone Cold and The Rock to my show, yes. After beating both games GM mode, I just controlled both brands(my PS2 slim came with two controllers) and had fun pushing CAWs to the top.


It only gives you the option to max out your created wrestlers' attributes when you win a season rather than infinite money. I tend to have half of my roster created guys, just makes it more fun. 2008 actually had better controls but the GM mode wasn't as good due to ECW being added. That made it where there were never any guys in free agency. Also if you pick ECW you only get one title. And yep, I've never beat the other show without a legend in there. Just be sure if you cut them to retire them so the other show doesn't take them.
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acid_bukkake
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Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 10:56 am 
 

dragons_secrets wrote:
I haven't played any the WWE games on Xbox or N64 but I hear good things about a lot of those. However, I prefer the more realistic wrestling as opposed to a fighting game style. I hate when a finisher doesn't get a 3 count the same way when I hate when guys on Madden football games catch a pass while they got 5 guys covering them. It's just dumb to me. The main thing about the GM mode that is dumb though is that the opposing show never runs out of money or has jobbers on their roster and the only real way to "win" the year is to pull a legend out of retirement for a few months and do a "5 star" feud with a top guy.

You really owe it to yourself to get either a working copy of No Mercy off eBay/Amazon or download the right emulator. Festivus is right when he says people still refer to it as the best wrestling game ever. It (and the other AKI-developed N64 wrestling titles) is based on the Japanese series Virtual Pro Wrestling, so one finisher won't keep somebody down unless you've really worked them over and earned it.
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Festivus
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:49 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
[quote="dragons_secrets"I haven't played any the WWE games on Xbox or N64 but I hear good things about a lot of those. However, I prefer the more realistic wrestling as opposed to a fighting game style. I hate when a finisher doesn't get a 3 count the same way when I hate when guys on Madden football games catch a pass while they got 5 guys covering them. It's just dumb to me. The main thing about the GM mode that is dumb though is that the opposing show never runs out of money or has jobbers on their roster and the only real way to "win" the year is to pull a legend out of retirement for a few months and do a "5 star" feud with a top guy.

You really owe it to yourself to get either a working copy of No Mercy off eBay/Amazon or download the right emulator. Festivus is right when he says people still refer to it as the best wrestling game ever. It (and the other AKI-developed N64 wrestling titles) is based on the Japanese series Virtual Pro Wrestling, so one finisher won't keep somebody down unless you've really worked them over and earned it.[/quote]
N64 emulation is kinda strange, though. Some of my logitech controller's buttons don't seem to work with some games, which leads to odd as hell mappings. I'm yet to find a playable ROM of No Mercy. Maybe certain controllers don't work so well with certain emulators? And the little I've played of No Mercy, I really liked how someon's alternate costume could be an entirely different wrestler. Basically you could assign a CAW as an alternate costume :lol:

As I've said, I own Day of Reckoning 2 for the GameCube, and from what I've been told, the DOR series(there's only two games) is pretty similar to No Mercy in terms of gameplay. Judge it by seeing it for yourself:

Youtube: show
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:08 pm 
 

The Day of Reckoning games always felt clunky and slow to me. I've forever preferred the faster paced, more arcade-esq and easily accessible style of like the first five Smackdown games. Here Comes the Pain in particular is my favorite wrestling video game ever. Only real flaw with that one is the roster depth; they cut a TON of guys out of the game, so quite a bit of the 2002-2003 midcard is missing.

I still own WWF Attitude and ECW Anarchy Rulz on PS1 too. I never cared that the former is basically a same-company bootleg of the latter. Both were just about the same amount of fun for me.
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dragons_secrets
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Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:55 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:48 pm 
 

Festivus wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:
[quote="dragons_secrets"I haven't played any the WWE games on Xbox or N64 but I hear good things about a lot of those. However, I prefer the more realistic wrestling as opposed to a fighting game style. I hate when a finisher doesn't get a 3 count the same way when I hate when guys on Madden football games catch a pass while they got 5 guys covering them. It's just dumb to me. The main thing about the GM mode that is dumb though is that the opposing show never runs out of money or has jobbers on their roster and the only real way to "win" the year is to pull a legend out of retirement for a few months and do a "5 star" feud with a top guy.

You really owe it to yourself to get either a working copy of No Mercy off eBay/Amazon or download the right emulator. Festivus is right when he says people still refer to it as the best wrestling game ever. It (and the other AKI-developed N64 wrestling titles) is based on the Japanese series Virtual Pro Wrestling, so one finisher won't keep somebody down unless you've really worked them over and earned it.

N64 emulation is kinda strange, though. Some of my logitech controller's buttons don't seem to work with some games, which leads to odd as hell mappings. I'm yet to find a playable ROM of No Mercy. Maybe certain controllers don't work so well with certain emulators? And the little I've played of No Mercy, I really liked how someon's alternate costume could be an entirely different wrestler. Basically you could assign a CAW as an alternate costume :lol:

As I've said, I own Day of Reckoning 2 for the GameCube, and from what I've been told, the DOR series(there's only two games) is pretty similar to No Mercy in terms of gameplay. Judge it by seeing it for yourself:

Youtube: show
[/quote]

I'd buy an N64 JUST for No Mercy, and WCW/NWO Revenge which people always said was great. I really don't tend to find the earlier games fun but I'm curious about those. But yeah, I won't go back and play like the first Smackdown or WWF Attitude or anything. Even WCW Vs. the World has gotten old and that was the best wrestling game on the market when it came out. Very dated now. I think that the Raw Vs. Smackdown series were good up until 2009 even though 2009 has no replay value whatsoever. I would say if 09 had GM Mode, it would be the best year.
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Festivus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:18 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
The Day of Reckoning games always felt clunky and slow to me. I've forever preferred the faster paced, more arcade-esq and easily accessible style of like the first five Smackdown games. Here Comes the Pain in particular is my favorite wrestling video game ever. Only real flaw with that one is the roster depth; they cut a TON of guys out of the game, so quite a bit of the 2002-2003 midcard is missing.

I still own WWF Attitude and ECW Anarchy Rulz on PS1 too. I never cared that the former is basically a same-company bootleg of the latter. Both were just about the same amount of fun for me.

Who did they cut from HCTP? I can only think of Hulk Hogan, Zach Gowen and Jeff Hardy. That game still has a pretty good roster, legends included. It was so fun to tea shit up with Goldberg and Lesnar in it.

You're right that DOR is a bit slow paced compared to, let's say, the SmackDown! series. But I liked how its gameplay was closer to the backs and forwards of a pro wrestling match than the SD! series. DOR 2's roster was not that good, I'm afraid. You could make several great CAWs on it... but it had to load everytime you changed your CAW's clothes or accessories.

Anyone here ever played the Fire Pro Wrestling games? I remember back in 2009-2010 seeing multiple copies of a couple of Fire Pro Wrestling games on the PS2 shelves at stores. This was when the PS2 was near the end of its life, so you could only mostly find Platinum and shovelware type of PS2 games at stores by that point. Pretty much no one bought a Fire Pro Wrestling game... but then a few years later turns out many found out it was a game that sold for high prices due to it being rare in Europe, so all of a sudden many resellers and collectors were going after it :lol:
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:25 am 
 

They cut 12 wrestlers from the game. This link has the full list.

https://tcrf.net/WWE_SmackDown!:_Here_Comes_The_Pain

I never played Fire Pro. Just never got around to it, and I probably won't ever since I don't game anymore.

Just remembered that I have WCW Mayhem on PS1 as well. No clue how I came into possession of that (or really most of my PS1 games outside of weird shit like the various Mortal Kombat games I own and a Jeremy McGrath motocross game, which was the first PS1 game I ever owned). I played the shit out of it though. It was most likely my first exposure to WCW ever.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:45 am 
 

Eh the only ones that it's a shame they didn't make the final cut are Jeff and Hogan. Warrior maybe, but his move template is in the game iirc.

Strange how Bradshaw didn't make the cut. He was an active wrestler at the time.

Don't care about the others who have been scrapped. I mean Rosie, Molly Holly and Billy Gunn? *yawn*
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:42 am 
 

Bradshaw was probably cut because he was out the entire period this game covers due to injury. Tore his bicep, was out for like 9 or 10 months, came back with short hair as part of the APA reunion.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:52 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
Bradshaw was probably cut because he was out the entire period this game covers due to injury. Tore his bicep, was out for like 9 or 10 months, came back with short hair as part of the APA reunion.

Edge was also gone for over a year. He got injured around January or February in 2003 and only returned in 2004 after WM XX at the WWE Draft, where he got drafted to Raw. yet, he made the cut. Then again, I guess it's because Edge was a bigger star than Bradshaw, even though Edge still wasn't a main eventer by then. He was tag teaming with Hulk Hogan and Rey Mysterio in 2002 and feuding with Kurt Angle, so clearly WWE was high on him at the time already.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:13 am 
 

Exactly. The Smackdown games generally have followed the timeline of the middle of the year before the game was released to the middle of the year it's released in. For example, Here Comes the Pain's timeline is Summerslam 2002 to I believe Judgment Day or Vengeance 2003. Bradshaw got hurt in September 2002 and didn't return until June 2003, after the timeline of the game ends. Edge didn't get hurt until February 2003 and still made the cut due to both that and, yes, being the bigger star than Bradshaw.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:04 am 
 

Festivus wrote:
Anyone here ever played the Fire Pro Wrestling games? I remember back in 2009-2010 seeing multiple copies of a couple of Fire Pro Wrestling games on the PS2 shelves at stores. This was when the PS2 was near the end of its life, so you could only mostly find Platinum and shovelware type of PS2 games at stores by that point. Pretty much no one bought a Fire Pro Wrestling game... but then a few years later turns out many found out it was a game that sold for high prices due to it being rare in Europe, so all of a sudden many resellers and collectors were going after it :lol:

Fire Pro gained a lot of "underground" support among die-hard fans because of the level of customization it offered. The roster is always incredible (they literally create characters based off real talents and just change the names/costumes to avoid lawsuits), you can design an entire arena without a GameShark/hack, and the layers of gameplay are rewarding if you put the time into it. I'm not huge on the series for basic reasons (no grapple button, everything is so timing-based that a button masher like myself never does well, nearly impossible to line up strikes), but there are plenty who still swear by it. There's even rumors that a new Fire Pro game is in the works after the developer (Spike) ran a poll on which older titles it should re-do and it won in a landslide.

If you can find it cheap then I recommend it, but it's not for everybody.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:19 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Exactly. The Smackdown games generally have followed the timeline of the middle of the year before the game was released to the middle of the year it's released in. For example, Here Comes the Pain's timeline is Summerslam 2002 to I believe Judgment Day or Vengeance 2003. Bradshaw got hurt in September 2002 and didn't return until June 2003, after the timeline of the game ends. Edge didn't get hurt until February 2003 and still made the cut due to both that and, yes, being the bigger star than Bradshaw.

You can put legends in the HCTP season mode if you want to. So yeah, you can have a Deadman 90s Undertaker alongside an American Badass Biker Undertaker in the same season mode file. Also, it's been a while but I don't remember EVER facing Edge in HCTP's season mode. And I've played through that mode several times. Not to mention that SmackDown games a lot of times have storylines that did not happen in real life, like the Eddie and Undertaker one in SvR 06(Eddie holding an urn was kinda creepy considering he had died just a little before the game came out). They will have storylines inspired on real WWE ones at times, though, like the first ever draft in SYM and facing Hollywood Hulk Hogan at WM. That game's season mode goes for 2 years long, in fact.
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dragons_secrets
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:40 pm 
 

Festivus wrote:
Subrick wrote:
Exactly. The Smackdown games generally have followed the timeline of the middle of the year before the game was released to the middle of the year it's released in. For example, Here Comes the Pain's timeline is Summerslam 2002 to I believe Judgment Day or Vengeance 2003. Bradshaw got hurt in September 2002 and didn't return until June 2003, after the timeline of the game ends. Edge didn't get hurt until February 2003 and still made the cut due to both that and, yes, being the bigger star than Bradshaw.

You can put legends in the HCTP season mode if you want to. So yeah, you can have a Deadman 90s Undertaker alongside an American Badass Biker Undertaker in the same season mode file. Also, it's been a while but I don't remember EVER facing Edge in HCTP's season mode. And I've played through that mode several times. Not to mention that SmackDown games a lot of times have storylines that did not happen in real life, like the Eddie and Undertaker one in SvR 06(Eddie holding an urn was kinda creepy considering he had died just a little before the game came out). They will have storylines inspired on real WWE ones at times, though, like the first ever draft in SYM and facing Hollywood Hulk Hogan at WM. That game's season mode goes for 2 years long, in fact.


I feel like most of the storylines on the Smackdown games never happened. I've just always been a created wrestler in career mode so I don't know if certain guys have unique paths to the title but everyone from the first Raw vs. Smackdown on have their own voiceovers. It's just that the season mode gets old fast and then you wanna gravitate over the GM Mode. Only HCTP has that replayable season mode. Also, Smackdown 2 on PS1 had a good neverending season mode with seemingly a million cut scenes spliced in.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:43 pm 
 

By "timeline" I'm referring to the visual presentation of the games; wrestler attires, arenas on display, the wrestlers that appear in the games themselves, etc. That's why John Cena didn't appear in Shut Your Mouth; that game's visual timeline runs from Summerslam 2001 to Vengeance 2002, and Cena didn't debut until June 2002, right around the time the game's timeline ends, despite the season mode going from 2002 to 2004. That doesn't really account for why Chris Benoit is in the game despite being injured for literally that entire period of time, but you can chalk that up to Benoit having been a main eventer on PPV in 2001 and Cena being a complete unknown at the time, much like Bradshaw not being in Here Comes the Pain but Edge being in it despite their respective injuries.

Does anyone know how long Know Your Role's season mode really runs for? It really did feel like it just went on in infinitum. Also, Just Bring It's story mode SUCKS.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:45 pm 
 

Just Bring It's story mode can be finished in 5 minutes. I don't know why they releaesd such a broken game. I liked some of the elements of Know Your Role, like wandering around backstage or randomly interfering in matches. Also if you pressed a certain button you can see a cutscene of beating down your opponent after the match.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:53 pm 
 

Just Bring It was a fun game on its own, but the story mode is awful and there are some very questionable roster choices. That's not even mentioning the hilariously bad in-game commentary from Michael Cole and Tazz. It's like they were told to listen to Shane McMahon and Jerry Lawler's commentary from WWF Attitude as reference for their line reads, but they delivered them even worse. Definitely one of the weird things that came with the early Smackdown games being developed by a Japanese company.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:31 am 
 

I don't think I've played a truly good "story mode" in a wrestling game. Most are either character-centric (the later SVR games only had 4-5 story options to choose from) or just retreads of actual plot points (see: No Mercy).

As for the Eddie/Taker thing from SVR '06, that was actually a feud in the books when Eddie died. They tested it on a house show loop and, according to former head SD writer Alex Greenfield, the matches were incredible, with many based around Eddie working over Taker's eye to gain an advantage. It's plausible that what you get in the game was what was intended to air.

So, Beyond Wrestling released the card for this year's Americanrana (their big annual show) on July 31 at the Fete Music Hall in Providence. I'm spoiler tagging the card for space reasons.
Spoiler: show
*To Determine The Ace Of Beyond Wrestling*
Chris Dickinson vs. Donovan Dijak vs. JT Dunn

*The Skillogy: Part III*
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Jonathan Gresham

*First Time Ever*
Chris Hero vs. Kimber Lee

*Six Man Tag Team Match*
Catch Point (TJ Perkins, Drew Gulak, Tracy Williams) vs. Team Pazuzu (Jaka, Mike Draztik, Angel Ortiz)

*Battle Of New England*
Tommaso Ciampa vs. Brian Fury

*One Year In The Making*
Johnny Gargano vs. David Starr

*HOSS FIGHT~!*
Brian Cage vs. Keith Lee

*Please Come Back*
AR Fox vs. Matt Tremont

*Breakout Stars Showdown*
Matthew Riddle vs. John Silver

*Ten Man Tag Team Match*
Strong Style Squad (Danny “Mafia” Maff, Steve “Monsta” Mack, Homicide, Eddie Kingston, B-Boy) vs. Crusade For Change (Darius Carter, TJ Marconi, Anthony Gangone, Devin Blaze, Tommy Trainwreck)

The "Ace" 3-way should be decent (Dijak is solid, Dunn is very good, but Dickinson is one of the most boring "name" indy guys I've seen since Chad Collyer), ZSJ/Gresham part III should be epic if you're into chain wrestling, Riddle/Silver could steal the show, and that 10-man is going to be STIFF AS FUCK.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:07 pm 
 

dragons_secrets wrote:

I feel like most of the storylines on the Smackdown games never happened. I've just always been a created wrestler in career mode so I don't know if certain guys have unique paths to the title but everyone from the first Raw vs. Smackdown on have their own voiceovers. It's just that the season mode gets old fast and then you wanna gravitate over the GM Mode. Only HCTP has that replayable season mode. Also, Smackdown 2 on PS1 had a good neverending season mode with seemingly a million cut scenes spliced in.

Hence why I prefer DOR 2's story mode. You can only play it with a CAW and cannot lose a single match, but the real wrestlers are in character, unlike in SmackDown games where if you play a season mode with Undertaker is basically the same thing as playing it with The Rock or Santino Marella. They'll be given a generic personality.

Subrick wrote:
By "timeline" I'm referring to the visual presentation of the games; wrestler attires, arenas on display, the wrestlers that appear in the games themselves, etc. That's why John Cena didn't appear in Shut Your Mouth; that game's visual timeline runs from Summerslam 2001 to Vengeance 2002, and Cena didn't debut until June 2002, right around the time the game's timeline ends, despite the season mode going from 2002 to 2004. That doesn't really account for why Chris Benoit is in the game despite being injured for literally that entire period of time, but you can chalk that up to Benoit having been a main eventer on PPV in 2001 and Cena being a complete unknown at the time, much like Bradshaw not being in Here Comes the Pain but Edge being in it despite their respective injuries.

Does anyone know how long Know Your Role's season mode really runs for? It really did feel like it just went on in infinitum. Also, Just Bring It's story mode SUCKS.

Randy Orton was in SYM. When did he debut? Lesnar debuted shortly after WM X8, but he didn't have a role in the season mode. Seemed like a last minute addition.

In SYM you could walk around backstage and talk to other wrestlers. From the top of my head you could run into Undertaker(Undisputed Champion), Eddie Guerrero, Shawn Stasiak, Stone Cold, Debra(oddly she was not a playable character in the game), Angle, Farooq, Bradhsaw and others I'm forgetting. Don't recall ever running into Lesnar.

As for KYR, I have not played it but heard it was a massive game for its time and that it took work to climb up the ranks in season mode.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:52 pm 
 

Wrestling and wrestling video game fan here, life-long. Well... I've fallen away / dipped my feet back in on and off for the past 10 years or so. Got really into NJPW for a while, and once in a blue moon will pick up a random Shimmer Women Athletes (all women ROH off-shoot) DVD here and there. Still love the Smackdown! game series, and the oldies like War Zone (I have that game down to a science, great flow to it). Still take part in an online RP fed, too. If anyone here is interested, swing on over to 4W and check out 4CW, consider signing up. Roster is small presently, as is the community, but we're a dedicated one and one of the oldest surviving wrestling forums online (1998-present).
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:28 pm 
 

Festivus wrote:
As for KYR, I have not played it but heard it was a massive game for its time and that it took work to climb up the ranks in season mode.


Know Your Role was indeed a massive game for it's time. Worth tracking down a copy. There were a ton of match types and the season mode had great replay value cause it just randomized your cards and would cut away to random scenes of various happenings such as in ring promos and backstage attacks. And there were so many scenes that you'd have to play the game for 1000 hours to see about half of them. The only thing was this was before they added the body damage meter so you can prettymuch beat anyone with anyone in 2 minutes. Sometimes you can schoolboy for 1-2-3 the second the match starts. The actual flow of the matches didn't get really good until HCTP.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:44 pm 
 

dragons_secrets wrote:
Festivus wrote:
As for KYR, I have not played it but heard it was a massive game for its time and that it took work to climb up the ranks in season mode.


Know Your Role was indeed a massive game for it's time. Worth tracking down a copy. There were a ton of match types and the season mode had great replay value cause it just randomized your cards and would cut away to random scenes of various happenings such as in ring promos and backstage attacks. And there were so many scenes that you'd have to play the game for 1000 hours to see about half of them. The only thing was this was before they added the body damage meter so you can prettymuch beat anyone with anyone in 2 minutes. Sometimes you can schoolboy for 1-2-3 the second the match starts. The actual flow of the matches didn't get really good until HCTP.

Damn, how did they fit so many scenes in a PS1 disc?

And SmackDown games are notorious for being able to finish off your opponent quickly, especially on lower difficulty games. The problem with the difficulty settings in SD! games is that the reversals are pretty much either test dummy or block everything.

You know, Shut Your Mouth and Here Comes the Pain would have been just perfect if you could defend titles on exhibition. Sadly, if I want to play a title match in a wrestling video game, I have to boot in SD vs. Raw 2006 or 2007. And speaking of those games, 2006 was pretty big at the time but has not aged so well, imo. I prefer 2007, even if those mini-games got old fast. it had a better season and GM modes. Plus 2007 has a better roster overall, imo. Losing only to 2006 in the fact that it lacks Jericho and Christian(both left the company in 2005, so understandable).

Basically SvR07 felt like an update to 2006.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:09 pm 
 

Festivus wrote:
Randy Orton was in SYM. When did he debut? Lesnar debuted shortly after WM X8, but he didn't have a role in the season mode. Seemed like a last minute addition.


Orton debuted in April 2002. He actually debuted on the 3rd to last TV before the name change from WWF to WWE (4th to last if you count the Insurrection PPV from the night before the name change, which was the final World Wrestling Federation show ever).

I remember being so upset that HCTP didn't have commentary, especially since the feature in Playstation Magazine showed the options screen and one of the settings was commentary volume. Kind of amusing now that I know that the commentary in WWE games is generally pretty bad.
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Festivus
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:20 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Festivus wrote:
Randy Orton was in SYM. When did he debut? Lesnar debuted shortly after WM X8, but he didn't have a role in the season mode. Seemed like a last minute addition.


Orton debuted in April 2002. He actually debuted on the 3rd to last TV before the name change from WWF to WWE (4th to last if you count the Insurrection PPV from the night before the name change, which was the final World Wrestling Federation show ever).

I remember being so upset that HCTP didn't have commentary, especially since the feature in Playstation Magazine showed the options screen and one of the settings was commentary volume. Kind of amusing now that I know that the commentary in WWE games is generally pretty bad.

Ah I see. Considering I've only really gotten into WWE in 2004, I mostly watched the years before on youtube and dailymotion. Obviously overlooking lots of segments and matches. So yeah, I had no idea when Orton debuted.

Batista debuted as D-Von Dudley's bodyguard, didn't he? And if memory isn't playign tricks on me, I believe he he helped D-Von defeat... Triple H? Sounds so weird, Triple H jobbing to D-Von Dudley :lol:

Lack of commentary in HCTP did not bother me in the slightest. I played DOR 2, SvR 2006 and 2007 and SYM before I played HCTP. DOR 2 had no commentary either, just music and it was fine. Commentary in SvR 2006 was alright but kinda glitchy in 2007. As for SYM... it was all over the place. JR and King were just saying random stuff.

And btw, not sure if I've said this already, but I hated how SmackDown games from HCTP on made me HATE submission moves. In SYM all you do is apply them and hope the opponent taps out. And if you've been fighting with him for a while and he locks you in on a submission move os his... you almost pray you don't tap to it. But then in HCTP they add a bar to those moves and you gotta mash several buttons repeatedly for a better effect. This KILLS your fingers, especially in the highest difficulty level. In DOR 2 all you had to do was mash the A button, not pretty much every single one, so it wasn't as bad. Plus I liked how you could use submission moves as restholds or ways to fill in your finisher gauge instead of making your opponent tap. So yeah, thanks for HCTP for making me not want to play with Jericho, Benoit or Angle anymore.
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