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severzhavnost
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:47 pm 
 

Here in Canada, the only televised soccer I get is MLS, the new Canadian Premier League, English Premier League, rarely Ligue 1 and very rarely Bundesliga. So I guess it doesn’t really matter to me if various countries have the same teams dominating all the time.
Is it different for you in Europe? I mean, can a Portuguese like yourself also regularly watch La Liga, Ligue 1, Serie A, Bundesliga, Eredivisie and EPL?
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Festivus
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:55 pm 
 

If you subscribe to a specific paid channel, yes. But most people just watch games from those leagues online through streams. And most people don't care about about foreign leagues that aren't EPL or La Liga. Maybe some watch Bayern, Dortmund or PSG games but that's it. No one I know irl watches the Eredivisie, just like most people from around the world don't watch the Portuguese Primeira Liga.

I'd say it's like this worldwide in terms of popularity:

1st - EPL by far. From top to bottom
2nd - La Liga, mostly due to Barcelona and Real Madrid. But clubs like Atlético de Madrid, Valencia and Sevilla also have fans all over the world nowadays.
3rd - Serie A. Juventus and AC Milan are very popular clubs worldwide. Even if AC Milan have been in the gutter for many years now they're former 7 time European champions, so it's still one of the most famous clubs in the world.
4th - Bayern and PSG games. Bundesliga and Ligue 1 are the least popular of the top European leagues. From those countries only Bayern truly is a massive club in terms of both support and history. PSG wasn't particularly successful before oil money in 2013. Plus those leagues have mostly domestic players that most people outside of those countries don't know of or well enough, unlike top EPL and La Liga clubs which have top players from all over the world.
5th - The rest. Portugal/Holland/Turkey/Russia are generally considered the biggest of the non-top European leagues. But not many people outside of those countries or immigrant diasporas follows those leagues. Although Portugal has the advantage of having had African colonies, meaning there's a lot of Benfica, Porto and Sportign fans in countries like Mozambique, Angola, Cape Verde and Guinea-Bissau.
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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 11:31 pm 
 

Thanks for the info! Some of it is surprising, such as you placing the Portuguese league at the same tier as the Russians. Give yourselves some credit! As a casual soccer fan, I can’t name a team in the Russian League, but I’d say that if I had the choice, the Portuguese League would be a more prestigious place to play.
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Festivus
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 12:10 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
Thanks for the info! Some of it is surprising, such as you placing the Portuguese league at the same tier as the Russians. Give yourselves some credit! As a casual soccer fan, I can’t name a team in the Russian League, but I’d say that if I had the choice, the Portuguese League would be a more prestigious place to play.

I'm not putting us down. Portugal, Holland, Turkey and Russia are all more or less on the same tier when it comes to the quality of their leagues and their chances against the top teams in Europe. Hell, go check the UEFA rankings/coefficients. If anything, it's embarrassing for Russia and Turkey to be on the same level as us at best. Those are tow large countries with large populations and bigger economies than ours. Russia in particular is a big sports nation with a ton of olympic gold medals and also a lot of success in ice hockey, yet they're not particularly impressive in football whether club or NT wise. Since the fall of the USSR even Ukraine has done better than Russia at football. Hell, the greatest team in the USSR was Dynamo Kyiv, a team from Ukraine. And the greatest player from that part of Europe since the fall of the USSR was Andriy Shevchenko from Ukraine. A true world class player in his prime.

Russian and Turkish clubs also have higher budgets and can pay higher salaries than Portuguese and Dutch clubs do, btw.

And yes, Portuguese league is more prestigious, imo. For one thing, Benfica and Porto have been European champions twice in their history each. Not a single Russian or Soviet club has done that. Zenit won the UEFA Cup in 2008 and CSKA Moscow won it in 2005 but that's all. Dynao Myiv won the Cup Winner's Cup back in the USSR days, but again, they're Ukrainian. And Dinamo Tbilisi also won the CUp Winner's Cup iirc... but that's a Georgian club so not Russian either. As for Turkey, the only Turkish club to win a European trophy was Galatasaray winning the UEFA Cup in 2001 or so. Turkish football didn't evolve that much since then. I think a lot of times top Russian and Turkish clubs just spend too much money on rather well-known players or players at the twillight of their careers instead of properly focusing on domestic talent like Portugal does. Again, the fact Turkish and Russian clubs can afford to pay better wages makes them fall into that temptation. No way van Persie, Sneijder or Drogba would ever have gone to Benfica, Sporting or Porto; but they went to Turkey.

It's one thing if a big country doesn't have football as its number 1 sport like USA or Japan... but Russia and Turkey don't really have an excuse. Football is deinitely a big sport in those coutnries and they invest in the sport. So they're clearly underperforming.

Another big country that kind of underperforms in football is France. At least in club football. Only one time did a French club win the Champions League, and it was Marseille in the 90s. And before PSG got loaded in 2013, they weren't particularly impressive in Europe either for the most part. If it wasn't for France's NT winning those 2 World Cups and those 2 Euros then France would be a laughing stock in football. But it's funny, France has had a lot of great player,s including two great generations: Platini's and Zidane's. Yet French clubs haven't historically been that powerful.

As you said, you are a casual. If you watch more football I'm sure you'll see the name Zenit St. Petersburg sooner or later. Although I think they were a bit stronger in 2008-2016. Spartak and CSKA also regularly play in Europe.

I'd say the Russian league is more competitive than the Portuguese league and it's also a harsher league to play at due to the massive variations of climate within a country like Russia. I remember Benfica having to play Zenit in January when it was like -10C in St. Petersburg. Portuguese and South American players aren't exactly used to playing in such weather...
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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 8:09 am 
 

problem with the Turkish league is that they lack a strong sense of schooling tradition. Sure the big clubs have very impressive club cultures but to really count you need to properly train your youth.

Considering the Dutch league it will be an interesting couple of years. Ajax is trying to break out of the mold of just selling players at a younger and younger age and they are bringing in players that are in their late 20's. Right away this season we see what that can lead to because at the end of the day Dutch clubs are some of the most well led and trained clubs in the world. They will lose some key players this summer most likely but they've earned so much money and have so much money on their bank account that if they get the right players they can perform well in Europe for a couple more seasons. However the rest of the league will fall behind with the only teams with a reasonable chance of winning the league having a much smaller budget.


Last edited by tomcat_ha on Mon May 27, 2019 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Conan Troutman
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:29 am
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Location: South Yorkshire, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:18 am 
 

Well, another season draws to a close, and with no summer tournament I have to contemplate three months without football. Bit depressing. On the plus side, it's been a good season for my club Barnsley. We were relegated from the Championship last season but have been promoted at the first time of asking. This is in no small part down to our fantastic manager Daniel Stengel formerly of Hannover 96. I think I'd turn gay for him if he's up for it.

Here is a bit of footage from our last home game of the season, and we can now look forward to playing Leeds United and Sheffield Wednesday:-

https://youtu.be/bYxfeqPMbV8

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Unity
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:42 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 11:04 am 
 

Here in Portugal on the last match of the season Sporting CP won the Portuguese Cup for the 17th time by beating Porto. Pretty impressive since they had already won the League Cup.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:28 am 
 

Tonight is the beginning of the English era of European dominance. The reign of Spain is over, as evidence by the fact that 4 English teams have made the European finals. There's simply too much money in the Premier League. The top teams make 200m pounds just from TV and prize money in the league alone, let alone the extra 90 million pounds the teams making the Champions League final will clean up. This is before merchandise and international television rights.

Sure, you'll have still Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern, Juventus, perhaps even PSG if they can ever get their shit together challenging, but for the rest outside of England, the rich aren't getting rich fast enough, and the poor will stay poor.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:12 am 
 

Sorry Festivus but ranking Germany below Italy and Germany with France is just ridiculous. But after Thorgan Hazard & two German internationals (Brandt/Schulz) joining Dortmund and Julian Nagelsmann joining Red Bull Leipzig the next season will prove that point for me.
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Dembo
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:44 am 
 

Terri23 wrote:
Tonight is the beginning of the English era of European dominance. The reign of Spain is over, as evidence by the fact that 4 English teams have made the European finals.

One season is way too short to make a conclusion about eras beginning or being over. I wouldn't be surprised if next year have no English teams in the European finals, or even semi-finals.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:47 am 
 

Indeed like the last decade or so having Premier League almost consistently fail in Europe.
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Conan Troutman
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Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 6:29 am
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:30 pm 
 

Dembo wrote:
Terri23 wrote:
Tonight is the beginning of the English era of European dominance. The reign of Spain is over, as evidence by the fact that 4 English teams have made the European finals.

One season is way too short to make a conclusion about eras beginning or being over. I wouldn't be surprised if next year have no English teams in the European finals, or even semi-finals.


I will guarantee there will be at least one English club in the semi finals next season. Probably not Chelsea though.


Last edited by Conan Troutman on Thu May 30, 2019 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:52 pm 
 

Dembo wrote:
One season is way too short to make a conclusion about eras beginning or being over. I wouldn't be surprised if next year have no English teams in the European finals, or even semi-finals.


The money in the EPL is simply far too powerful now. This season was the first season where insane TV money flows through the EPL from a new TV rights deal. Just to prove a point, Huddersfield, who came 20th in the league, made more money from TV and prize money finishing dead last than Valencia did finishing 4th in La Liga. The power will only grow also, as overseas TV rights will increase prize money by 30% year on year for the next 3 years.

I'm not saying the European comps will have an English winner every year, but the EPL will be the dominant league in Europe, and you will see the Champions League and Europa League dominated by the EPL.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:31 am 
 

Funny enough the richest clubs have been the least successful this year.

Rich clubs, especially in the EPL, only get players more for their market value than their skill, to the point that many clubs have made it a business model to exploit that. Dortmund, Ajax, RB Leipzig, Frankfurt, they all do the scheme now of getting young players for 1-2 million, building them up and selling them to the EPL for 80 million.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:45 am 
 

Money doesn't buy success, but it does help. Man Utd are the best case in point. Richest club in the league being milked by a board that truly do not give a fuck about on pitch success.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:58 am 
 

Yeah and another big issue that you can see strongly in PSG and partly in Man City and to a degree in most rich clubs is narcissism among high value players who care more about their social media following than their performance on the pitch. When performing tricks and making elaborate poses during the game is more important than the result you'll get something like this CL season with PSG out and Man City out both relatively early in the knock-out stage despite their multi-billionaire benefactors.

They know that at Bayern even, with Lewandowski and Coman getting into fist fights in training over who gets to be the star scorer lol.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:33 pm 
 

Klopp's finally done it. Thoroughly deserved win. The match wasn't a classic by any stretch, but that doesn't matter. The better team won.
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lordcatfish
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:38 am 
 

European champions one again. Feels incredible. Haven't celebrated a goal like Div's for a long, long time. Can't wait for the parade later today. It's gonna be ace.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:30 am 
 

If they invest a bit more they can dominate everything. Squad-wise they have the same problem as Dortmund, though on a much higher level: Having an absolutely incredible top squad but rather weak substitutes by comparison, which sucks in case of injury. Dortmund lost a nine point lead during the brief weeks three key players were injured, what a waste, needs investment in backups. For Liverpool of course it worked for winning the Champions League and making the best second place score in history, but it's funny to think there's still potential for much more.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 6:53 am 
 

Disagree with you Drone, however your assessment is absolutely correct if you apply the argument to last seasons squad. Liverpool have depth throughout the squad, with two players able to play in every position at least. What the team does lack is a pace merchant back up to Salah and Mane. Oxlade Chamberlain might be able to offer it next season given that he's back from injury, but Klopp didn't play him there last season. Shaqiri does play these positions, but he plays a very different game to Mane and Salah, and certainly doesn't have the pace to burn.

The one thing this squad lacks is a creative midfielder like Kevin de Bruyne or Mesut Ozil. Someone who can play in key passes and assists to unlock defences. Coutinho could do it for Liverpool, and they haven't properly replaced him. Shaqiri briefly looked like the solution, but for whatever reason, he's barely played since the end of January.

Having said that, Klopp's come out and said he's not looking to make big name first team signings, so I don't expect Liverpool to sign anyone to fit that role. He will buy a left back for cover, a right back for cover, and a forward to cover/compete with the established front three. A back up goalkeeper may also be purchased if Mignolet leaves. Alberto Moreno and Daniel Sturridge are confirmed to leave, and I expect Clyne and Lallana to also leave. Shaqiri is also rumoured to be up for sale.
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ambientsorrow
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:25 am
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:13 am 
 

https://twitter.com/LivEchoLFC/status/1 ... 2281782273 Mental.



Was kind of hoping we'd go in for a big name or two. Perhaps kind of move on the likes of Lallana and upgrade with Fekir, move on Moreno and get a decent option to rotate with Robertson. Get Mignolets wages off the books and get a cheaper backup etc... and of course, hang onto Origi. I think the squad depth is there, we just need to make adjustments to have better options off the bench when needed.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:17 am 
 

Fekir is absolutely dead in the water, and has been since he failed the medical a year ago. I don't know why third rate press continue to hold onto this transfer, It won't happen.
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ambientsorrow
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:24 am 
 

Well it was more of an example that we should look to upgrade our quality of depth across the squad.

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Terri23
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 9:48 am 
 

I'd like to see Liverpool go in for De Ligt. The club were linked early, but it seems to be that Barcelona have won that race. I've actually just read that John Henry wil keep up spending like he did last season, despite Klopp saying he's happy with the squad. So that might indicate that Liverpool might make that marquis signing. Still not sure who that might be though. Timo Werner is a name that's been thrown around. I don't know much about him, but those rumours simply won't go away. I'd personally be happy with someone like James Maddison at Leicester. He's a young kid, had a phenomenal season, and he's the type of creative midfielder the squad needs. Being young, he's perfect for Klopp to train up to the next level.
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ambientsorrow
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 11:14 am 
 

I don't know much about Timo Werner either apart from he's meant to be one of (or is) the quickest players in the Bundesliga. Apparently he wants to join Bayern Munich, someone told me he's verbally agreed or some such, but if Bayern are in for Leroy Sane at that quoted price, I couldn't see them getting Werner as well. But really, on the back of the CL win, we could convince just about anyone to sign for us at the moment.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:06 pm 
 

Every transfer window Bayern is supposed to be after about 80 players with a total value of about five billion. Their rumour mill is notoriously ridiculous.
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Unity
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:11 pm 
 

At last! Klopp deserved it! :D
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:44 am 
 

Toro Rosso Paderborn - a controversy is going big in Germany at the moment that there's said to be a new deal between RB Leipzig and newly promoted Bundesliga club SC Paderborn for the latter to become the former's new farm team. Paderborn fans are up in arms and ready to riot.
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Conan Troutman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:18 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Toro Rosso Paderborn - a controversy is going big in Germany at the moment that there's said to be a new deal between RB Leipzig and newly promoted Bundesliga club SC Paderborn for the latter to become the former's new farm team. Paderborn fans are up in arms and ready to riot.


Don't blame them. I would hate to see that happen to my club.

How would this work though? I'm not sure of the regulations but can't you only loan so many players to/from one club, and only have so many in the match day squad?

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:39 pm 
 

The idea would be 2-3 players per season I think.

Big Hazard seems finalised for Madrid, should get some brother duels, Dortmund always seems to get Madrid in the CL.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:31 am 
 

Rumours still linking de Ligt to Liverpool. I can't see it happening personally, none of the reputable journalists connected to Liverpool are discussing it, and none of them have all year. He's been Barcelona bound since day one, and I feel this is his fuckwit agent simply trying to drive up business for himself.
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Unity
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:29 am 
 

We won the Nations League! :D It feels awesome! Now that we have two international titles, we've surpassed teams like Holland, England, Denmark and Greece!
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:55 am 
 

Holland has a title? An official one I mean, not the unflattering ones given to them by Germans.
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Unity
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:05 am 
 

What are you talking about, dude? Were you guys robbed? I'm curious! ;)
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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:51 pm 
 

Women’s World Cup already underway! Somehow, nobody is talking about #5 ranked Canada among the tournament favourites, but that’s fine. We’ll be okay :) Also looking forward to Christine Sinclair passing USA’s Abby Wambach atop the all-time international goal scoring list. For me, no athlete in any team sport has ever been as crucial to her team’s success as Sinclair.
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:23 pm 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
Women’s World Cup already underway! Somehow, nobody is talking about #5 ranked Canada among the tournament favourites, but that’s fine. We’ll be okay :) Also looking forward to Christine Sinclair passing USA’s Abby Wambach atop the all-time international goal scoring list. For me, no athlete in any team sport has ever been as crucial to her team’s success as Sinclair.


Cristiano Ronaldo and Real Madrid maybe?
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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:23 pm 
 

Yes Cristiano Ronaldo is probably second on that list. Both for Real Madrid and maybe even moreso for the Portuguese national team. Even still, Christine Sinclair has scored more goals for Canada than the next four women on the list combined. That’s pretty much unheard of.
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kluseba
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:58 pm 
 

I'll second that. Christine Sinclair is an absolutely incredible player and I wish Canada all the best for the tournament!
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Terri23
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:15 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
Yes Cristiano Ronaldo is probably second on that list. Both for Real Madrid and maybe even moreso for the Portuguese national team. Even still, Christine Sinclair has scored more goals for Canada than the next four women on the list combined. That’s pretty much unheard of.


Ronaldo has 88 goals as it currently stands for the Portuguese National Team. The rest of the squad have 23 goals between them. Even adding Andre Silva to the squad, who should be there, the team would have 38 goals between them.

When Ronaldo left Real Madrid he had scored 450 goals. Fucking mental. The next most prolific players for the club, including goals this season are Benzema with 222, Bale with 102, Sergio Ramos with 84 and Isco with 47.

He scored 44 goals in his last season, with Bale scoring 21 and Benzema scoring 12. This season Benzema scored 30, while Bale got 14 and Ramos 11. As a team in the league, they scored 31 goals less without him. His impact on the team was immortal.


The EPL fixtures for next season are out. They suck if you're an Arsenal fan. The opening weekend highlight is Chelsea and Man United.
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Last edited by Terri23 on Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:21 am 
 

What doesn't suck if you're an Arsenal fan? Even the breaks offer no respite because they're usually filled with questionable transfers.
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