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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:59 pm 
 

:ah-ha: The host literally says “we don’t have any evidence, but it’s pretty obvious.” And I’m supposed to take that seriously? Even calling this a coup is weird, as the army has made no move to claim power for itself, and the interim leader Anez has the backing of the Constitutional Court.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4853
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:21 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
:ah-ha: The host literally says “we don’t have any evidence, but it’s pretty obvious.” And I’m supposed to take that seriously? Even calling this a coup is weird, as the army has made no move to claim power for itself, and the interim leader Anez has the backing of the Constitutional Court.

Weird that you'd be stanning for a far-right Christian theocrat who literally marched into an empty senate holding up a novelty-sized bible and shouting "THE BIBLE RETURNS TO THE PALACE!!!" and once tweeted this lovely sentiment: https://twitter.com/jacobinmag/status/1 ... 1724127232

If these are the good guys, I'd probably like to get to know the bad guys:
Image

I may not be a fan of Trump but I sure as shit wouldn't support a big chunk of the military storming congress with assault rifles and wearing black masks and physically removing an elected official.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 1541
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:04 am 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
:ah-ha: The host literally says “we don’t have any evidence, but it’s pretty obvious.” And I’m supposed to take that seriously? Even calling this a coup is weird, as the army has made no move to claim power for itself, and the interim leader Anez has the backing of the Constitutional Court.

I don't know what you mean by the word "support". If this isn't the US supporting something, then clearly we're talking about different things:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... o-morales/

And "the army has made no move to claim power for itself"? :lol: How do you force a politician, or several in this case, to resign without it implying a claim to the power to do so? Whether the military plan on taking the resigned persons seat or the military simply being a tool in the forceful removal part of the process is irrelevant to the question of the event itself being a coup.

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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:50 am 
 

Dembo, of course I can’t deny the fact that the US government is happy with Morales’ resignation. But having an opinion in response to events as they unfold, is very different from your accusation that the US “supported” the coup. I read that word as meaning there was American assistance to other side, which is not the case afaik.
darkeningday, Mrs Anez political and religious views are not important, unless she fails to hold free and fair elections as she has promised. At the moment, she’s the highest ranking official who didn’t resign with Morales, so she is the legitimate interim leader of Bolivia. (Hopefully interim remains the key word!)
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:17 am 
 

Morales's "last" term ends in January, yet he "resigned" two months early at the behest of the military? Seriously dude? The writing is on the wall.

This was a helpful piece on how this was both a coup AND assisted by the US:
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/14/oas- ... o-morales/
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:16 pm 
 

Aren't there also audios that leaked of the coup folks talking with Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio like a month before the election?

Also you've got to be pretty naive to see yet another popular left wing leader forcefully shoved out of power in Latin America to the benefit of American interests and just accept that America had nothing to do with it despite their incredibly lengthy history of doing exactly that.
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henkkjelle
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Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:58 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Morales's "last" term ends in January, yet he "resigned" two months early at the behest of the military? Seriously dude? The writing is on the wall.

This was a helpful piece on how this was both a coup AND assisted by the US:
https://thegrayzone.com/2019/11/14/oas- ... o-morales/


The last time I saw that site pop up they were engaging in some hardcore China apologia on both Hong Kong and the Uyghurs.

I'm with severzhavnost in that I don't think we can call this an us backed coup. At least not yet. Unless you think that "they did it before" is good enough evidence. But it's definitely an opportunistic power grab by the insane right-wing opposition party. And considering all the reports we're getting of violence against Morales supporters (at least 21 dead at this point) I don't have much faith that the bible-toting crazy person that's the interim president right now is going to do everything in her power to organize fair elections...

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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:58 pm 
 

darkeningday: Umm yeah... everyone knows Morales’ term was due to end in January, that’s why there was an election! That’s no cryptic writing on the wall - unless the writing said “Hey, Evo, time’s up. Better get busy jiggering those election results!” :lol: Seriously I have no idea why you brought that up, as it only reinforces the idea that Morales was getting desperate in a last-ditch attempt to cling to power. Pretty weak conspiracy mongering from you.

BastardHead: His status as a “popular” left-wing leader had been fading for many years. Hence his poor performance this election. That he was in danger of losing is not a sudden development. In fact, it’s questionable that Morales should even be on the ballot at all in 2019. A referendum three years earlier denied him permission to run again, after his constitutional two terms were finished. But of course, that referendum was invalid and stacked against Evo by foreign-backed imperialist smear campaigns, so his party asked (pressured?) the Supreme Court to grant him power in perpetuity as a “human right”.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 8:43 pm 
 

:scratch: Being forced to resign by the military 2 months before his democratically and fairly elected term ended is just... perfectly fine? And saying, "yikes, that's a red flag" is conspiracy mongering? Are you for real?
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:29 pm 
 

https://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Tyrant/3540460174

You gotta be kidding me calling your band that in 2017.
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:30 pm 
 

https://twitter.com/BadEmpanada/status/ ... 1930077184
http://cepr.net/press-center/press-rele ... ysis-shows

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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:05 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
:scratch: Being forced to resign by the military 2 months before his democratically and fairly elected term ended is just... perfectly fine? And saying, "yikes, that's a red flag" is conspiracy mongering? Are you for real?


Again, that is very much up for debate. It is far from ideal, but what other recourse did the people have, other than to have thei demands presented by the military, when faced with a leader whose disregard for the constitution and electoral process was growing more flagrant year after year?
For us who live in long-established democracies, the military being so active in politics is an alien concept. Let me ask though, if Donald Trump showed serious signs of being unwilling to accept an election loss - which may or may not be that farfetched, what with his pre-2016 ranting about the system being rigged - would a forceful removal not be on the table?
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:04 pm 
 

This right here is merely "far from ideal?" Again I ask, are you for real? I actually break from lefties on Venezuela, because Maduro is dogshit and Chavez wasn't much better. But Morales has objectively improved the lives of the poorest people in Bolivia, most of whom are indigenous "untouchables." This simply doesn't play well with those of noble blood and fairer skin. And unlike Venezuela, the corruption and voter fraud charges are far more spurious and lack almost any oversight from impartial committees (i.e., not the fucking OAS).

There are a million ways this could've been resolved reasonably and with full confidence of the vote totals and, if necessar, a peaceful exchange of power. Why go with the only one that prevents Morales and his party from attaining any power, even if he or they were democratically voted in?
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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droneriot
incelgender

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:23 pm 
 

Well, Saddam, Assad and the Kim dynasty are supposed to be "left-wing" too but they're (or were) really just theocracies with themselves as God and Chavez/Maduro belong in that same category, that's nothing anybody needs to break from. Unless you're a German speaker where the same word is used for "to break" and "to vomit."

Morales for the most part was closer to pre-corruption Lula, though yeah he was clearly moving towards no longer pre-corruption, but still a far, far cry from the Venezuela psychocracy.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:32 am 
 

I got beaten into submission on big lefty spaces for saying anything even remotely critical of Maduro, let alone Chavez (BastardHead knows what I'm talking about). Though I'll admit that it's difficult to separate the propaganda from the hard news on either side given the longstanding bitter battle between these mutually exclusive ideologies.

What I don't understand is why people can't get behind condemning the US for having anything to do with foreign elections. At least keep oversight powers to the UN ffs.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:08 am 
 

This will be my last comment about Bolivia until something good happens. And that prospect is looking very bleak.
I still maintain that it was necessary to toss out Morales, and that the military genuinely believed they were acting with popular support. But now, the extraordinarily soft coup of Gen. Kaliman - who has already been replaced - has been usurped by a cadre of extremists. Hunting down former MAS members, publishing a list of “seditious” journalists, granting criminal immunity to the security forces - all this is dreadful and spiralling out of control.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:06 am 
 

Thanks. Sorry I was being even more dickish than usual. Bolsonaro has put me on edge.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:40 pm 
 

According to scientist and author Jeb Sprague, at least six of the officers who removed Morales have been educated at the infamous US Army School of the Americas, now called "Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation", where the US since the 1940's have been training coup-makers, death squad leaders and other Latin American officials with hands dripping with blood, mostly from socialists of various kinds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_H ... e_Americas

The number of killings by the military is rising. So is the number of corrupt former officials being released from prison or returning from exile.

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severzhavnost
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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:22 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Thanks. Sorry I was being even more dickish than usual. Bolsonaro has put me on edge.


Dickish? Not at all! This has been one of the best, most fact-based debates I’ve ever had online! Thanks to you too, and I apologize for stepping into personal attacks once or twice as well.
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:41 pm 
 

Finally got my tickets to go on vacation in January.

I'm gonna get so, so drunk.
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The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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OpsiusCato
Mexican Metal Inquisition

Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:00 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
I'm gonna get so, so drunk.

You make se so proud, goddammit!

Xlxlx sabeeeeeeee
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:14 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Finally got my tickets to go on vacation in January.

I'm gonna get so, so drunk.

Aside from drunk, where are you going? :lol:
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:43 pm 
 

@Opsius: you know it, eseeeeeeeeeee!

@Ilwhyan: oh, I'm visiting Córdoba, beautiful province right at the center of my country. Big vacation spot for my family ever since I was a kid. Most of my mother's relatives live there, including several cousins I've been friends with since we were toddlers, plus now a handful of high school friends. I'm gonna be staying in the capital, which is a beautiful city full of old but well preserved buildings and churches and an utterly amazing night life. Perfect spot for clubbing and bar touring, but you can do pretty much anything there, and if you go outside the capital you got tons of gorgeous little towns not too far away with, like, vintage restaurants that have endured since the country became independent :lol:

And also rivers. Tons of rivers, clean and beautiful and much better than any beaches I've ever been to. It's been like three years since my last visit, so I'm super stoked.
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droneriot wrote:
The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:03 pm 
 

Germany may just have had one of the most insane political assassinations ever. A doctor from Berlin was stabbed to death, son of former German president Richard von Weizsäcker. The reason given by the attacker was that Richard von Weizsäcker, father of the victim, while serving as head of a German chemical company in the 1960s allegedly supplied components for chemical agents used by the United States during the Vietnam War, such as Agent Orange. Like, I get that an extremist would be mad about that and would want to kill someone for it BACK THEN, but half a century later, and killing the son because the father died a decade ago? Like what the actual fuck?
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titan_v
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:40 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:55 pm 
 

I'm happy to be out of the hospital at home for the first time in 35 days. Damn leukemia.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:52 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
@Opsius: you know it, eseeeeeeeeeee!

@Ilwhyan: oh, I'm visiting Córdoba, beautiful province right at the center of my country. Big vacation spot for my family ever since I was a kid. Most of my mother's relatives live there, including several cousins I've been friends with since we were toddlers, plus now a handful of high school friends. I'm gonna be staying in the capital, which is a beautiful city full of old but well preserved buildings and churches and an utterly amazing night life. Perfect spot for clubbing and bar touring, but you can do pretty much anything there, and if you go outside the capital you got tons of gorgeous little towns not too far away with, like, vintage restaurants that have endured since the country became independent :lol:

And also rivers. Tons of rivers, clean and beautiful and much better than any beaches I've ever been to. It's been like three years since my last visit, so I'm super stoked.

Sweet! Sounds like a lovely place, and a good time to be had.
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droneriot
incelgender

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:55 am 
 

Random quote from the weekend: "The way you pronounce 'Manes' it could be a hair metal band."
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Unity
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:10 am 
 

Going to have surgery tomorrow. Will have four wisdom-teeth and a cyst removed. Wish me luck! ;)
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Vadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:14 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:36 am 
 

Starting to think my ears are fucked up. Whenever I listen to any kind of music with very harsh drums, the cymbal crashes are most prominent in my right ear even though they should be centered. Indeed in general if I listen with only one ear (i.e taking a headphone out of the other), my left ear always sounds way more muffled and less dynamic than my right one.

Maybe listening to this harsh music constantly for a decade straight is starting to fuck my ears up.

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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
Posts: 1764
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:12 pm 
 

Well I'm bummed. Me and a friend were supposed to go see King Diamond, Uncle Acid and the Deadbeats, and Idle Hands in San Francisco next Friday, but there's supposed to be horrible storms then were we are, the roads we would be traveling, and in the bay area, so we decided to cancel the trip. I was looking forward to all three bands. I wouldn't have even needed to take a day off work to see this concert, it fell exactly on the right day of the week.

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Opus
Veteran

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:33 pm 
 

So you won't die for metal?
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DoomMetalAlchemist
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:10 am
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:42 pm 
 

Opus wrote:
So you won't die for metal?


Well, it's not like it was Manowar... :lol:

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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 7977
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:03 am 
 

Manowar don't have a monopoly on dying for metal! I'd gladly die for, say, Morbid Saint's debut.
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droneriot wrote:
The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

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Osore
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 am
Posts: 208
Location: Serbia
PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:12 am 
 

Vadara wrote:
Starting to think my ears are fucked up. Whenever I listen to any kind of music with very harsh drums, the cymbal crashes are most prominent in my right ear even though they should be centered. Indeed in general if I listen with only one ear (i.e taking a headphone out of the other), my left ear always sounds way more muffled and less dynamic than my right one.

Maybe listening to this harsh music constantly for a decade straight is starting to fuck my ears up.

I advise you to stop using the headphones as soon as possible. I used them only for year and a half in my entire life and ended up with tinnitus after orthodox christmas eve 5 years ago when blast beats combined with the sounds of firecrackers (some morons were using in front of my window) and nasal congestion resulted in chronic (permanent) tinnitus, a high-pitched sound I hear when I'm in a silent place. It took me at least 6 months to get used to it, especially when I go to sleep.
Signalling pathway between ears and brain is not completely understood, which makes tinnitus incurable. One hypotheses says that it appears in order to "compensate'' for the loss of receptor sensitivity for certain sound frequencies. It sounds like your hearing is slightly damaged in your left ear, so it won't be smart to even it out by hurting your right ear. If it's difficult not to use headphones, make sure that sound is low and there's no background noise. Despite of the tinnitus, my hearing is perfect, but I wouldn't like to wear hearing aids in the future.
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:34 pm 
 

I developed a very mild form of tinnitus about two years ago. Oh well, worth it :hail:
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:35 pm 
 

My ears are fine, only if I hear the ringing of a bicycle bell I need to check if it's front or back because I can't tell the difference, but that could be normal, I don't actually know.
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droneriot
incelgender

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2019 6:04 pm 
 

Prove your worthiness to your peers - Guess ten genre media theme songs played on kazoo

Youtube: show
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tomcat_ha
Minister of Boiling Water

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:12 am 
 

according to some recent research there is more of a neurological component to tinnitus than previously thought.

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raspberrysoda
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:51 pm
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Location: Edgystan
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:03 pm 
 

We're probably gonna have THIRD elections in Israel over the span of the last year.
Sometimes you just gotta drain all that "lack" of tax money somehow.
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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:13 pm 
 

tomcat_ha wrote:
according to some recent research there is more of a neurological component to tinnitus than previously thought.


Any chance you could share the article? Always been interested in that area.
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