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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 3139
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:28 pm 
 

Church13 wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
> He says he wants to investigate the "voter fraud", because he really can't let it go that he lost the popular vote


This has actually been an accusation for many years where dead people have voted. Trump didn't make this up.


A Colorado talk radio host who once chaired the state Republican Party and has accused Democrats of widespread voter fraud has been charged with forging his ex-wife’s signature on a mail-in ballot in the 2016 election, court records showed on Wednesday.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-color ... SKBN16T37X

Typical Republican hypocritical mentality. If anything Trump would have lost the election had their been no voter fraud.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:34 pm 
 

Calling Bush a socialist is so unimaginably wrong on every possible level that it's beyond confounding. It's outright stupidity.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:50 pm 
 

True. To be honest I should have stopped there and not bothered. Someone like that is so far gone as to hardly be worth engaging with.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Rykov
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 pm
Posts: 454
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:02 pm 
 

I think he left out the keyword 'respectively' to denote he was referring to Bush as a neoconservative and Obama as a socialist.
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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:31 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Please do provide relevant examples of liberals calling people racist out of personal dislike rather than being, ya know, fuckin' racist. I'll wait.

As for persecuting people to death out of some sense of "moral high ground"? You must be confusing us with the alt-right.
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
And until you can actually convince them otherwise you actually aren't contributing to the solution. All mocking and hating does is make their own mocking and hatred stronger to themselves.

You seem to be under the impression that it's actually possible to reason with this people. It's not. They're lost causes. The best we can do is try to educate the masses who are on the fence about these issues, and unmask the bigots so the aforementioned masses can see them for what they truly are.

Except they aren't lost causes. You simply say they are because you've never actually reasoned with one and simply gave up on the project, and decided to not actually change your approach.

Now imagine when you're trying to educate the masses and then insult people that the educated might've looked up to at some point. Are they going to take you seriously when you act childish in what overall is "I'm right you're wrong neaner neaner"? No. Your job is to treat everyone the same.

And ya know what? I take part blame. I decided to call Trump idiotic and his main supporters idiotic instead of going the best route of telling some of my friends, "Maybe this isn't the best way to go about it and here's why:", and let it spread upward, with me helping lead the way. Instead I said, "Hillary is better for Reason X, and the other people supporting Trump are stupid".
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:39 pm 
 

There are some Trump supporters who genuinely thought he would do good, but there were also a lot of shitbag racists and scumbags. I know because I went to two of his rallies as a journalist and saw it myself, plus one Mike Pence rally as well. A lot of these people, while maybe you shouldn't do the "I'm right, you're wrong, neener neener" stuff, it's impossible to talk to them because all they want to do is scream, yell and troll themselves.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:38 am 
 

Silver linings, and I know the trouble with anecdotes: every single example I've seen of interviews with disenfranchised one-time Trump supporters has been working class people who felt they were lied to (because they were). His approval ratings have been in steady decline so he's gotta be bleeding support from somewhere - kinda nice to know that it's regular people coming to their senses and not just typical wealthy Republicans jumping off a sinking ship. I mean, I'm sure there's some of that, too, but yeah.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:09 am 
 

He's definitely bleeding support at this point, that's for sure.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do ... shrinking/
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:01 am 
 

Rykov wrote:
I think he left out the keyword 'respectively' to denote he was referring to Bush as a neoconservative and Obama as a socialist.

Even if that's the case, Obama isn't anywhere close to a socialist, sooooo
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Subrick
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:08 am 
 

A reminder that Trump also put this fool in a position of federal power.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/24/politics/ ... e-of-mind/
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Rykov
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 pm
Posts: 454
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:50 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Even if that's the case, Obama isn't anywhere close to a socialist, sooooo

No indeed; as I mentioned in my post, that's nearly as ridiculous.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:50 am 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
I supported Trump in the republican primary because in some ways, his positions on certain issues were actually far more reasonable than those of Ted Cruz, the presumed front runner. Ted Cruz, to me, would have been just as bad, even worse, than Trump- he was truly scary. (I liked Rand Paul the best out of the field, but he didn't stand much of a chance to knock off Ted Cruz.)

Yeah, I used to feel the same but now I'm not so sure. Cruz wants to install a theocracy and obliterate the wall between church and state. But he also doesn't appeal to the alt-right or to so-called white ethnonationalism because of his very deep Christian convictions, and has openly denounced white supremacists. And that's something Trump could never and will never do.

God, what a fucking terrifying world we live in when saying the KKK is bad is something worth applauding.
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MrMcThrasher II
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:24 pm 
 

So is Alt Right just super nationalist or are they actually racist? It seems to be the former to me but I don't have any knowledge of the group, really.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 12:38 pm 
 

Here you go:

Youtube: show


This is literally nazi rhetoric.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 1:43 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
So is Alt Right just super nationalist or are they actually racist? It seems to be the former to me but I don't have any knowledge of the group, really.

Assuming this is a serious question and not JAQing off-type of concern trolling, yes, the alt-right is absolutely, undeniably racist. The term was coined by Richard Spencer, an open neo-nazi and white supremacist.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:15 pm 
 

The confusing part is that while alt-right folks speak and behave in a totally racist way, almost all of them staunchly deny that they're racist and complain that the main problem today is ethnic minorities being responsible for the deconstruction of white values/culture and "white shaming" and all of that crap. Even Richard Spencer denies being a white supremacist on record, insisting instead that he's an "identitarian," whatever that's supposed to mean, and says that when his supporters sieg heil during his speeches, they're doing so ironically. Trump uses this same kind of anti-logic in practically everything you hear him say. You know, bragging about grabbing women by the pussy while proclaiming that no one respects women as much as him; Mexican immigrants are rapists and drug cartels and also he loves Mexican people, etc.

There aren't very many better ways to kill mass amounts of brain cells than trying to understand the reasoning behind the alt-right.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:21 pm 
 

^ The way I understand it is that these alt right people see racism as something that has been unilaterally condemned in modern society - i.e. you can't just say you hate someone because of the color of their skin, it's simple not acceptable and they WANT to still be in society, they don't want to be outcasts or pariahs of any kind. So they use coded language and try to pass it off as "we don't HATE other races, we just think white heritage is important and we want to promote that," as if nobody can see through that at all. It's very insidious the way they are doing this.
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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:30 pm 
 

Yeah, totally. I've always thought the subtext to Trump's "Make America Great Again" is "Make America the Way it Was Before the Civil Rights Movement."

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:37 pm 
 

Trump is really just a buffoon. A racist for sure, but he doesn't have any grand plan - the MAGA rhetoric is just empty macho man posturing crap for him. But yeah, some of his supporters have taken it in that way.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:42 pm 
 

Yeah, I mean it makes a lot of sense. Like, if I look back on my upbringing in the DC suburbs, there's not a single person I would say would wave around a confederate flag and be a loud and proud racist who thinks the KKK is a great thing. Literally none of them. <Tuvok voice>However,</Tuvok voice> there were absolutely tons of white preppy dudes who sat around and bitched about there being a club (I can't remember the name for it at the moment, sorry...maybe it was Brothers or [Something] Brothers?) that was very openly for black male students to join, and had lots of activities for them that were just community outreach and shit like that. Standard school club stuff, aimed at getting black male students involved in that sort of thing. There was a similar one for black female students. Anyway, a bunch of stuck up white asshole students moaned about how this was reverse racism or some stupid shit and started a "Scandinavian Culture Club" that was for whites only. Keep in mind none of these motherfuckers was actually Scandinavian nor gave a fuck about Scandinavian culture - the whole thing was an "ironic" joke to moan about how minorities got the advantage over them.

So yeah, get a bunch of these crybaby white privileged assholes together in one place to post racist/sexist/otherwise bigot super funny memes or whatever, and eventually you'll wind up with some of them growing out of it and the rest of them turning into utter shitlords who do stuff like give Nazi salutes to Richard Spencer and wear Pepe pins and say it's all just a joke.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:49 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
^ The way I understand it is that these alt right people see racism as something that has been unilaterally condemned in modern society - i.e. you can't just say you hate someone because of the color of their skin, it's simple not acceptable and they WANT to still be in society, they don't want to be outcasts or pariahs of any kind. So they use coded language and try to pass it off as "we don't HATE other races, we just think white heritage is important and we want to promote that," as if nobody can see through that at all. It's very insidious the way they are doing this.

True. It's called dog whistling.

And a lot of them claim racism is over, and deny every instance of racism they see, and for them, being called a racist is worse than being actually racist. Someone on another forum put it in a great way:

Quote:
Racism is weird. Everybody knows it totally exists, but when you look at any specific situation, racism is never involved. You can know that it exists, but when you look for it, it turns into something else.

Racism is quantum locked. It doesn't exist when it's being observed. The moment it is seen by any living creature, it freezes into a coincidence.


Remember Dylan Roof? The dude was an open white supremacist, but you still had people saying he wasn't really motivated by racism, but he was "mentally ill", or other such excuses.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 2:57 pm 
 

I think that has a lot to do with what I was talking about. Basically Civil Rights happened and on paper, racism *is* gone. Basically everywhere it's illegal to discriminate on race. So people (who are sheltered/ignorant/idiots) see that and think "well my my, racism is over" and then they see things like affirmative action and black student groups and people telling them to check their white privilege and stuff, and in their minds all they can think about is that racism was already over, I thought we learned this was wrong, why is it now OK to be racist against white people.

Basically just simple lack of seeing how one group having centuries of gigantic advantage over the other group would result in things so deeply embedded into society that their perspectives on things are distorted as shit. So then, yeah, I can see those people saying shit like, "well I'm not racist" because most of their anger isn't actually directed at the minority groups, but at their fellow white people who have done things like recognize history and privilege and how it affects huge swathes of society. Not to say they aren't also racist - obviously they are - but I think that's the bigger unifying principal now for sure rather than ye olde race hate.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:02 pm 
 

A lot of them think they're not racist because they're not actually chasing down black people and lynching them in the streets, and they're not actually wearing KKK hoods. It's not a very subtle thing for them.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:04 pm 
 

Right, exactly. Plus, they have black friends. So racism = impossible.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:06 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Right, exactly. Plus, they have black friends. So racism = impossible.

Heh. *points at sig*
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Trashy_Rambo
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 3:08 pm 
 

Binders full of black friends!
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:54 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
A lot of them think they're not racist because they're not actually chasing down black people and lynching them in the streets, and they're not actually wearing KKK hoods. It's not a very subtle thing for them.

"The problem is not the Jewish people, it's with international Jewery and finance."
"The problem is not with non-white people, it's with the NWO globalists who are trying wipe out the white race by flooding white countries with non-whites and committing White GeNOcide."
"The problem is not with the thing everyone agrees is bad, it's with the slightly re-worded way of saying the thing everyone agrees is bad because otherwise my brain hurts."

It's just cognitive dissonance 101. No one likes to think of him or herself as committing or believing in wrongdoing. You'll very rarely meet active murderers or thieves or organized crime members who genuinely think what they're doing is wicked, because that's something the human brain has a great deal of difficulty processing; the only time they do is if they're a sociopath.

But personal rationalization is always irrelevant. Even Kadyrov thinks the unambiguous atrocities he's committing are actually good and beneficial.
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theposega
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:14 pm 
 

Didn't Alex Jones say something to the effect of "I don't hate the jews, it's just that they control everything"?

Anyways, couple bits of news that seem worth sharing in this thread:

GOP Strategist received shit directly from Guccifer 2.0

NSA head allegedly tells NSA staff they having damning evidence of collusion during private "town hall" meeting

Kushner allegedly wanted secret communication channel with Kremlin
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:12 am 
 

Funny how even the Russians were shocked by how brazen Kushner was, haha.

Like John Oliver said: "stupid Watergate" indeed
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:11 am 
 

Wow, that's literally treason.
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theposega
Mezla

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:51 am 
 

Kushner had at least three undisclosed contacts with Russian ambassador during/after campaign

shit heatin up, y'all
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 1:10 pm 
 

Trump's European visit appears to have made relations with several allies notably worse. Russia has wanted the relationship between the US and Europe weakened for ages, and it looks like they're fucking winning on that front.

A "highlight" from the article:

Quote:

Merkel’s weekend declaration was a reminder about the scope of the detrimental consequences of the president’s trip, but it wasn’t the only example of Trump’s failures. Over the course of nine days, Trump:

– lectured NATO members in a way that suggested he doesn’t understand NATO;

– seemed to take sides in the Middle East’s sectarian conflict, siding with Sunnis over Shiites;

– clashed with French President Emmanuel Macron;

– abandoned the United States’ leadership role on climate change;

– made clear to the world that he finds it far easier to get along with autocrats than democratically elected leaders;

– caused a series of cringe-worthy moments that included shoves, golf carts, golf courses, gaffes, and failures of geography.

Former U.S. Ambassador Christopher Hill – a veteran of Democratic and Republican administrations – told MSNBC over the weekend that the president’s trip was “rather bizarre,” and it left U.S. relations with our European allies “worse” than when he left.





I still can't believe this is our fucking reality now.
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Rykov
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 1:42 pm 
 

What a surprise, the candidate who ran on a platform of 'making America great' is in fact causing America to plummet from the leading political force in the world to... Well, who knows where it'll end up by the time he's done? It's going to take some serious damage control for the United States to recover from this utter catastrophe of a foreign policy.

Here's hoping Merkel and Europe at large can step in to assume America's capacity in terms of counterbalancing Russia, because Trump has abdicated that role wholesale.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:07 pm 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
Trump's European visit appears to have made relations with several allies notably worse. Russia has wanted the relationship between the US and Europe weakened for ages, and it looks like they're fucking winning on that front.


Well, when the President is a Russian implant, he's going to do what the Russians want, whether he knows he's doing so or not.
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Sick6Six
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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 3:57 pm 
 

Lately I look forward to every morning and night to check the news and see how Trump and friends can outdo their previously unbelievable scandal/joke/atrocity from the day before, they never fail. It's so disgusting that it's fucking hilarious and I can't stop watching. It's like watching a massive car pile up that just keeps getting bigger and bigger, then bursts into flames, then you realize everyone driving the cars are zombies, and suddenly you have a horde of flaming zombies chasing after you.

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:09 pm 
 

So the de facto collapse of Article V that started after Crimea is now more or less de jure. Not really all that surprising, it's been a long time coming. Just embarrassing that SVR/GRU's most successful ploy in that plot had to come from somebody the US elected.


In related news: Trump's Twitter account has gained 5,000,000 new followers in three days. Averaging about 100 new followers a minute now. All "eggs" who haven't posted yet, of course, and almost all of them created within the last three weeks. My my, those Russian troll farms sure are busy. Either that or he's just buying Twitter bots to follow him.

Not related: Putin must feel pretty dumb trying to pull the Trump thing in France and failing miserably. He ended up turning a moderately soft-on-Russia politician into someone who hates Putin. Excellent backfire for the rest of us.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5398
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:20 pm 
 

Just a quick note but Article 5 doesn't apply to Ukraine, since Ukraine is not a NATO member ("de jure", "de facto" or otherwise)
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R.I.P. Diamhea 1987-2018
Live young, die free. Gone, but not forgotten.

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3734
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:24 pm 
 

Well, no, but Putin (and most eastern European capitals) understood it as a testing ground. He proved his point.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5398
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 5:35 pm 
 

Proved what point? That he can invade non-NATO countries and NATO countries wont invoke Article 5? That's not a testing ground. A testing ground would be invading a NATO country, which he hasn't done.
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R.I.P. Diamhea 1987-2018
Live young, die free. Gone, but not forgotten.

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3734
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2017 6:33 pm 
 

No, that would not be a testing ground. That would be like saying "I'm not sure if the heat-resistant suit works, so I'll immerse myself in magma to try it out."

I don't really think this is the thread for this argument and I don't want to distract from Trump's idiocy anymore, but what you're saying is like claiming the Anschluss was unrelated to everything that happened to nearby countries. No, Austria wasn't a part of France or Poland, but it still totally had to do with France and Poland. And the rest of Europe.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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