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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4405
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:21 pm 
 

Buhbuhbuh... I thought the whole Russia investigation was a nothingburger?!? Please don't tell me Truth Warrior James O'Keefe misrepresented the truth?!?
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stickyshooZ
TO HAVE AND TO HOLD

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:29 am
Posts: 1278
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:36 pm 
 

Michael Flynn Jr's twitter, November 5th, 2017 wrote:
The SJW are out in full this morning....the disappointment on your faces when I don’t go to jail will be worth all your harassment...


Even though I realize it's likely that neither he nor his dipshit father will go to jail after they sell out everyone in the Trump administration, the sheer arrogance of this post is hilarious in retrospect. Their names are tainted forever, so that's a positive. :lol:
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Trashy_Rambo
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm
Posts: 1334
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:31 pm 
 

Fuck everything about this. Between this and Line 3, they're bound and determined to fuck up my home state.
http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/busine ... ears-house
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9507
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:48 am 
 

Apparently the tax reform bill has enough votes to pass. A bill that will keep enriching corporations, private jet owners (no, really), and screw over the middle class and poor. A bill so messy that it has hand-written, scrawled annotations everywhere.

Can you imagine if Obama had tried to pass a bill like that, at the last minute, without holding hearings or debates, while he was being investigated by the FBI and he just HAD his ex-Nat Sec advisor pleading guilty and offering to talk dirt about the president?

And Roy Moore will probably get elected too.

If I still had a heart, I'd feel sorry for Americans. :nono:

Edit: I just saw this being posted... even if it's only half-accurate, good gods...

Image
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3630
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:09 am 
 

The graphic claims it's based on a CBO analysis. The CBO hasn't analyzed the final bill, since it was just finished a few hours before the vote. Also, the bill they just passed is very different from the House bill. Once they reconcile the differences we'll be left with a 3rd and final bill that might not be recognizable.
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LOC78SK
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:43 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:34 pm 
 

it would be great if the 65 million complicit traitors in this country were taken to task and held accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, a lot of them seeing cuts in their SSDI, Medicaid, FoodStamps, and the fact that their coal jobs haven't come back will have to be comfort enough.

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AboveTheThrone
Village Idiot

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:56 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:17 pm 
 

It's adorable how fake "conservatives" are just now realizing that the FBI is corrupt... you know, the same agency that penned letters to Martin Luther King, Jr., pretending to be disappointed supporters, with hopes that he would commit suicide. Wow, who would have thought those people would launch investigations against people for political motivations?

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nestee8
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:05 pm
Posts: 272
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:03 am 
 

There has to be laws that can combat this level of corruption.

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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 1060
PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:59 pm 
 

Yeah, I watched some news program earlier, don't recall what, and some idiot was on there defending this, as if trickle down economics hasn't been shown to NOT work a million times over since the 80s. And yet they're still defending the idea of giving more money to corporations and the rich, and fucking over the poor and middle class progressively more, every year. [headdesk]
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Face_your_fear_79
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:18 am
Posts: 250
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:23 am 
 

FBI=Federal Bureau Of Imbeciles.

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Twisted_Psychology
Metal freak

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 4269
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:59 pm 
 

Every time I see shit like Republicans deliberately hiding contents of a bill from the Democrats until the last minute, I just wonder if there's really any truth to that old "right and left are both wings of the same bird" line. The Democrats don't really represent what I want either (Not left enough IMO) but would both sides really put this much effort into keeping up appearances if they were all on the same page?
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CoconutBackwards
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
Posts: 459
Location: Walled Lake, MI
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:23 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Every time I see shit like Republicans deliberately hiding contents of a bill from the Democrats until the last minute, I just wonder if there's really any truth to that old "right and left are both wings of the same bird" line. The Democrats don't really represent what I want either (Not left enough IMO) but would both sides really put this much effort into keeping up appearances if they were all on the same page?


They're both definitely destroying this country.
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awheio
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 523
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:26 pm 
 

To protect the right arm, it is sometimes necessary to fall on the left. They may be part of the same organism without always having identical interests. They have many shared interests, but they are still competing as teams. It is not all literal theater, there is no puppet-master. But there is an insidious system that can endure however the partisan politics play out, a system that they both serve and that serves them. But systems are diffuse things. The disagreements are probably more like, "Now is our chance, fuck them, let's do our thing"; "Well hold it... go a bit slower, be a bit more humane, or they'll catch on..."

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:29 pm 
 

It's overly simple to say the right and left are literally working as a team and on the same side. It's more like both of them have a lot of aspects that forget the common people and neither one is really doing anything to fix the problems in this country the way they could. Republicans are way worse, but Democrats aren't exactly shining examples of good politics either. I feel like there are better people on lower levels. I wonder if they can get up higher without becoming corrupted somehow. Or if that's ever possible at all.
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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 6572
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:40 pm 
 

It's a difference in style. The dems want to bleed the country slowly, whereas the repubs want to ritually disembowel it on the spot.

Really though, when it comes to many topics they are basically indistinguishable. What's the distinction between the democratic and republican party platforms on: attacking other countries, police power, mass surveillance, net neutrality, assassination, the federal reserve, the pentagon, private schools, for-profit prisons, white collar crime, etc etc... Even on immigration, probably the most emotionally charged issue in the country, both parties are in favor of maintaining a large underclass of immigrant workers, with the difference being how much the police should terrorize them. The other big symbolic issue is gun control, which republicans genuinely care about and democrats are committed to virtue signalling about, but honestly I can't believe dems really care one way or the other as they have never made any real effort to do anything serious about it even when they have the opportunity (as gun nuts frequently point out, they've never even bothered to understand gun jargon or any technical details).

Now, sure you could pick out an individual democrat or republican here and there who stands out, but as a group they are quite uniform on these things. The areas where they truly differ are things like bathrooms and whether it should be socially acceptable for white people to say the n-word in public.

Here's a fun example: https://financialservices.house.gov/new ... tID=402733 A bipartisan effort to help protect payday loan sharks from efforts to stop them from suckering poor people into 1000% interest rate debt traps. So you can add usury to the things the parties agree on.

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AboveTheThrone
Village Idiot

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:56 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:05 pm 
 

Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
FBI=Federal Bureau Of Imbeciles.

Without the FBI, who would push mentally ill youths into fake terror plots?

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9507
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:50 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
Every time I see shit like Republicans deliberately hiding contents of a bill from the Democrats until the last minute, I just wonder if there's really any truth to that old "right and left are both wings of the same bird" line. The Democrats don't really represent what I want either (Not left enough IMO) but would both sides really put this much effort into keeping up appearances if they were all on the same page?

Of course not, it has never been true. It's an empty platitude spouted by edgy idiots who think they're smarter than the sheeple.

John_Sunlight wrote:
Really though, when it comes to many topics they are basically indistinguishable.

And they differ vastly on many others, but funny how you don't go into detail for those huh.
I mean, regarding immigration, "with the difference being how much the police should terrorize them" -- saying that like it's a) a minor, throwaway thing and b) not a ridiculous oversimplification... come on.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:22 pm 
 

Because I was talking about the ways in which they are similar, which I notice you haven't denied. Why are you even arguing with me if you aren't making any points contrary to my own? Why the need to rush in with blanket defenses of the democrats relative to the republicans whenever anyone criticizes them in this thread?

The big issues that affect people on a day to day basis in this country: racism, poverty, inequality, corruption, are universal here and have been allowed to fester under both parties. The democratic party doesn't deserve to be shielded from criticism because they make a big show about caring about these issues while doing little to actually ameliorate them.

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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:41 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Because I was talking about the ways in which they are similar, which I notice you haven't denied. Why are you even arguing with me if you aren't making any points contrary to my own? Why the need to rush in with blanket defenses of the democrats relative to the republicans whenever anyone criticizes them in this thread?

The big issues that affect people on a day to day basis in this country: racism, poverty, inequality, corruption, are universal here and have been allowed to fester under both parties. The democratic party doesn't deserve to be shielded from criticism because they make a big show about caring about these issues while doing little to actually ameliorate them.

That's because Republicans are the only evil party in all this and the Democrats can't ever do wrong :wanker:
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9507
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:15 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
That's because Republicans are the only evil party in all this and the Democrats can't ever do wrong :wanker:

Got anymore straw to add to that pile, asshole?

"Both sides are the same" is vapid rhetoric from useful idiots. Y'all deserve Trump, I swear. If the Democrats are a rabbit turd, the GOP is that giant pile of dinosaur dung from Jurassic Park. "B-b-but both are still shit!" :rolleyes:
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 7891
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:25 pm 
 

Anybody that thinks both sides are the same at this point is actively ignoring reality. For all the problems that the Democratic Party has (and there are a LOT of them, some of them damn-near crippling), they are nowhere near as actively poisonous to the public good as Republicans are.
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FasterDisaster
Metal Pounder

Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:08 pm
Posts: 7981
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:30 pm 
 

I think somebody has already lost the game when they're dead set on defending one party being "morally superior" to the other one. Take that as a "knocking both parties down a peg to raise up the Republican Party" or whatever comforting shit you want to tell yourself, but neither party is morally superior than the opposing side. They're both institutions set on keeping things the same: all the good, bad and ugly parts.

The best one can do is to simply vote on a case-by-case basis regarding issues, and to point out faults with all parties or candidates as you see them. This fucking ultra-toxic rhetoric of "but no really, we're morally superiority" has to fucking stop.

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MrMcThrasher II
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:01 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:45 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
MrMcThrasher II wrote:
That's because Republicans are the only evil party in all this and the Democrats can't ever do wrong :wanker:

Got anymore straw to add to that pile, asshole?

"Both sides are the same" is vapid rhetoric from useful idiots. Y'all deserve Trump, I swear. If the Democrats are a rabbit turd, the GOP is that giant pile of dinosaur dung from Jurassic Park. "B-b-but both are still shit!" :rolleyes:

You seem to be hurt. I'm guessing you vote by party huh?
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5176
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:35 pm 
 

"Both sides are the same" rhetoric is not helpful, but neither is the "both sides can't/shouldn't be criticized" rhetoric either (that often goes along with the former). You can still criticize a party - even based on their similarities - without claiming that "they're both the same." That'd be like asking a Canadian not to criticize the Liberals, and point out their flaws, even though the Conservatives are far worse.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9507
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:37 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
You seem to be hurt. I'm guessing you vote by party huh?

I'm Canadian, and my vote has changed moderately often over the years. Nice try though, "u mad bro", you sure showed me.

PS: "both sides are bad" is still brain-dead garbage, completely disconnected from reality, and FasterDisaster agreeing with it the Trump administration has never made that clearer.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 25800
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:38 pm 
 

MrMcThrasher II wrote:
You seem to be hurt. I'm guessing you vote by party huh?


To be fair, both of these posts of yours contain nothing except vapid strawmen, no other real opinions or arguments at all. Morrigan just acknowledged the Democrats were bad too - she didn't say she's swearing loyalty to them.

I mean the Democrats have a lot of problems they need to address if they want to win, which they haven't really done in years. But the Republicans are fully backing a child molester for Senate, which I haven't seen the Democratic party do yet. Don't bother bringing up Bill Clinton or Al Franken either... I wouldn't support either one if they were currently running for something and I doubt most liberals would.

It's not about "voting by party," it's about one of the parties literally being batshit insane and the other just being defective and inefficient at helping Americans.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:50 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
It's not about "voting by party," it's about one of the parties literally being batshit insane and the other just being defective and inefficient at helping Americans.

It's almost as if there is a huge, long list of extreme, mind-numbing fuckery from a specific party from the half of this year alone (said list being abandoned at some point because it never stops and it's too much work to maintain, that's how bad it is), that showed just how obvious this is.

But nah. "Both sides". Always both sides.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5176
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:54 pm 
 

Just out of curiosity, Morri, but what is it about the Democrats that you don't like?
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 25800
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:02 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
It's not about "voting by party," it's about one of the parties literally being batshit insane and the other just being defective and inefficient at helping Americans.

It's almost as if there is a huge, long list of extreme, mind-numbing fuckery from a specific party from the half of this year alone (said list being abandoned at some point because it never stops and it's too much work to maintain, that's how bad it is), that showed just how obvious this is.

But nah. "Both sides". Always both sides.


There are never any situations when one side is worse. Republicans and Democrats are always the exact same level of bad. Nazis are the same level of bad as people who oppose Nazis. Murderers and their victims are the same level of bad. It goes on.
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AboveTheThrone
Village Idiot

Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:56 pm
Posts: 689
Location: Cleveland, OH, USA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:28 pm 
 

Democratic politicians are shit. Republicans are shittier. Neither party seems to want to stay the fuck out of other countries' affairs. Hillary would be bombing Syria right now if she had been elected.

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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 6572
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:21 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
It's not about "voting by party," it's about one of the parties literally being batshit insane and the other just being defective and inefficient at helping Americans.

It's almost as if there is a huge, long list of extreme, mind-numbing fuckery from a specific party from the half of this year alone (said list being abandoned at some point because it never stops and it's too much work to maintain, that's how bad it is), that showed just how obvious this is.

This is a good point. It seems the democrats moral superiority comes not from the positive things they do, which are scant, but from the bad things they are supposed to stop from happening. However, the democratic party has completely failed in this regard on every possible level! If they fail to do this, what is their source of moral superiority? Saying nice things with no actions to back up their words?

Ever since the Bill Clinton took eover of the party, they have been hemorrhaging thousands of elected positions at every level of government. They weren't even able to beat Trump, a transparently corrupt toad, and hold on to the presidency. Because Obama failed to push the issue, the democrats gave the supreme court to the republicans as well. Does this merit praise? Or does this merit extreme criticism?

There's two basic schools of criticism coming at the democrats right now, one from conservatives and right wingers calling them cucks and pc communists, and the other from people who have various left wing viewpoints and believe in the goal of stopping republicans from making the country worse. That second group of people has been extremely critical of the democratic party lately and their criticisms are largely aimed at the things the party is doing to make themselves less effective at stopping the republicans, such as failing to distinguish themselves sufficiently for voters (not just people who are interested in politics year round) and losing seats, getting too close to wallstreet and having a platform that doesn't connect with the people who they need to be supporting them in elections, not supporting their down ticket candidates, doing a lot of the same stuff republicans do, not getting behind the social movements and activists who have done the real work to make the country better (as much as the party is happy to take credit for their work), and so on. Their choice of candidates is central to these problems and picking candidates who won't do what needs to be done to avert republican engineered disaster is a mistake that should be criticized if things are going to get any better. More than that, democratic partisans need to start understanding how badly the party really is doing and how continuing to do the same thing is not going to make the situation better.

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nestee8
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:05 pm
Posts: 272
PostPosted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:35 pm 
 

This might be it!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4405
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:44 am 
 

nestee8 wrote:

You may want to read more than just the headline before you post the link...
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9507
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:12 am 
 

Derigin wrote:
Just out of curiosity, Morri, but what is it about the Democrats that you don't like?

- The pro-surveillance bullshit. Obama's biggest failure IMO.
- Foreign policy in general. It's not nearly as disastrous as the GOP's, but it's obviously pretty bad still.
- Supporting the TPP (though not all Dems did)
- Supporting for-profit prisons (ditto)
- Clinging to American exceptionalism, one of the stupidest bullshit idea of the 20th century.
- Their failure to organize and mobilize effectively, push charismatic candidates, etc.

Other things that bug me are usually with regards to individual figures, rather than the party, for example, Cory Booker's ties to Wall Street, Al Franken's disgusting perviness, etc. But that's not really a party thing at all.

In terms of rough ideology/platform? In an ideal world it's pretty solid, though they have rarely succeeded in significantly advancing their platform, but that's largely thanks to obstruction from the opposition. For example, a lot of Dems are in favour of common sense gun control, but the NRA lobby is just too powerful. Even Obama couldn't do shit, and you know he really wanted to get something done about this.
But yeah, being pro-: gun control, abortion rights, science, consumer rights, LGBT rights, unions, affordable healthcare, green energy/environment/combating climate change, etc. There's nothing here that's bad. Whether they can accomplish it or live up to their ideal is, of course, another story entirely. A large part of their failures with those policies (and it's not ALL failures, mind -- same-sex marriage getting legalized being a notable example of a success) are due to incompetence, greed, deadlock, or obstruction. And of course, all of those things are not even close to being limited to the Dems: the GOP have plenty of those, BUT they're also following a morally bankrupt ideology that directly harms Americans, particularly the most vulnerable Americans. Literally everything they do is fucking evil and harmful, it's really quite astonishing how brazen they are.
Image
John_Sunlight wrote:
This is a good point. It seems the democrats moral superiority comes not from the positive things they do, which are scant, but from the bad things they are supposed to stop from happening. However, the democratic party has completely failed in this regard on every possible level!

Every possible level? What?

- Repeal of DOTA + same-sex marriage being legalized
- DACA
- Obamacare (yes, it's kinda garbage compared to real UHC, but it still insured millions of Americans who weren't before, so it counts)
- Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
- Appointing two women to SCOTUS
+ All the things Obama did that Trump is destroying, including overturning limits on polluting rivers, overturning discrimination protections for transgender people, overturning financial regulations that were put in place to prevent another 2008-like crisis , overturning workplace safety regulations, re-arming police like they're military, the list goes on and on and on.

A fully-controlled Democratic government would have never tried to overturn all of that. It would have continued in that same direction. Slow progress, but progress nonetheless, and that's infinitely better than the sheer clusterfuck of regression the US is experiencing right now. Dems would have never pardoned Joey Arpaio, openly colluded with Russia, appointed Betsy Devos to the Dept. of Education, or passed this breathtakingly bad "tax reform" bill that will fuck over the entire American middle class. They wouldn't be tweeting out embarrassingly childish bullshit, including death threats to insane despots and making the US the laughing stock of the world. Etc. And I don't write "etc." because I ran out of things to list, the list is LITERALLY REALLY FUCKING LONG.

I can only imagine what the world would be like if Al Gore, for all his flaws, had been elected president. Probably no Iraq War (maybe even no ISIS as a result, though that's impossible to know what else could have arisen in its stead), a better SCOTUS for the next few decades, the US would no doubt be leading the charge in fighting climate change... The Bush administration was a disaster for the US and for the world, and I remember arguing with people, online and offline, way back in 2004, who would tell me that surely Americans are not dumb enough to elect Bush twice. Right? Right... well, in 2016, America told the world, "Hold my beer".

LOC78SK wrote:
it would be great if the 65 million complicit traitors in this country were taken to task and held accountable for their actions. Unfortunately, a lot of them seeing cuts in their SSDI, Medicaid, FoodStamps, and the fact that their coal jobs haven't come back will have to be comfort enough.

As cold-blooded as this is, I agree 100%. Fuck them all.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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PvtNinjer
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Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:45 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:53 am 
 

Is there anyone out here who is pro TPP? Personally I don't feel like I'm educated enough to really give my own two cents on it, although I do think that in general trade is usually a good thing economically. What's most people's objections to TPP here? Wage/labour and environmental?

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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 6572
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:40 am 
 

One complaint is that it would allow transnational corporations to sue countries for projected lost profits based on those countries' laws and regulations through a transnational court whose rulings would supersede national laws.

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schizoid
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Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:35 am
Posts: 1347
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:53 am 
 

The main issues are around countries giving up their sovereignty to corporations and the secrecy in which the negotiations were conducted.

An example of a big issue in many countries would be to do with patent laws, in particular with pharmaceutical companies outlawing generic versions of their medicines, effectively driving up the cost of often life saving drugs out of reach of the people who need them.

I hope I've (semi) explained that right.
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Last edited by schizoid on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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awheio
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 523
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:39 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
PS: "both sides are bad" is still brain-dead garbage, completely disconnected from reality, and FasterDisaster agreeing with it the Trump administration has never made that clearer.


This is only brain-dead garbage if one lacks the mental power to acknowledge that two things can both be bad while nonetheless being far from equivalent. The importance of ranking things should also not obliviate the possibility of looking at each group on its own merits. One can coherently think that 98% of our senators are cowards/shitheads/whatever, but that the Democrats are nonetheless consistently far better. I mean, look at average Americans for a possible example. Most people tend to just believe what the people in their social surroundings believe. The ones who believe that homosexuality is fine are to that extent better, more correct -- but if they lived in another setting, they would believe otherwise, because so many of them just conform their political beliefs to those of the people around them. So everybody sucks -- they tend to not research, etc. -- but some are still better. (And I'm not relying on a "sheeple suck" premise: I claim no exemption from the basic psychological fact that we form beliefs in this way. But it can be a defect, and people can all equally share the defect, but it can result in positive outcomes in some cases and negative ones in the other, depending on circumstantial/environmental factors.)

Both sides are bad -- disingenuous selfish only weakly principled cowards, etc. But one happens to consistently be far closer to doing the right thing. It may make them better in a sense, but it doesn't mean they're not bad overall -- and maybe it doesn't even make them better, just contingently subject to constraints that happen to cause them to vote in better ways.

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Unorthodox
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1163
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:47 pm 
 

I find that the "both sides are bad" thing is typically thrown out as a way to neutralize a political conversation, nothing more. I don't think it should be given too much attention, as most of the people that are saying that usually A) don't actually know much about what's going on in the world and B) may have interesting to say about other things, so just don't bring up politics around them.

Morrgian's assessment on the right vs left and why the left has problems but is ultimately better than the right wrote:


Yup, all this I agree with. And for all these reasons I'm sort of happy Trump is the president. Mainstream democrats, whether politicians or just regular people, needed a fucking fire under their ass in order to support policies a guy like Bernie Sanders would support. The list you posted would've not looked nearly as awesome had it not been for the recent leftist push that has been seen by Bernie. At this point, that's literally all that's left of the dems since Hillary lost against the worst candidate of all time. Mainstream dems have proven they have a hard time winning, and tbh, status quo would've once again tilted towards pro business decisions with little in mind for public welfare. Democrats need to become the party of FDR, who actually fought the historical forces of evil that are created by our own selfishness. Not some pity-party in which nitpicked demographics can get their privileged rights, while merely giving a few speeches on the problems that impact everyone. Fuck that, that's why white people quit voting liberal.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:23 pm 
 

PvtNinjer wrote:
Is there anyone out here who is pro TPP? Personally I don't feel like I'm educated enough to really give my own two cents on it, although I do think that in general trade is usually a good thing economically. What's most people's objections to TPP here? Wage/labour and environmental?

In addition to what others have said, there's also a really shitty copyright clause in it. The whole thing is just so shoddily done.

awheio wrote:
This is only brain-dead garbage if one lacks the mental power to acknowledge that two things can both be bad while nonetheless being far from equivalent.

Please. Pretty much the only reason anyone would say "both sides are bad" in discussions like these are to make equivalences in the first place, which is why it's so annoying to see it come up over and over again. Notice how it's always "both sides are bad" and never "Dems have fucked up sometimes, but holy shit the damage the GOP has done is out of this world".

Unorthodox wrote:
Not some pity-party in which nitpicked demographics can get their privileged rights,[ while merely giving a few speeches on the problems that impact everyone.

Not sure what that's supposed to mean...

Quote:
Fuck that, that's why white people quit voting liberal.

That and racism.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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