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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:42 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:


One of my friends is fond of saying "we are living in a cursed timeline."

They are correct.
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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:09 pm 
 

What happened (or appears to have happened, anyway) over the last 72 hours makes Obama's red line fiasco look like the pinnacle of careful policy deliberation.

Presidents really need to stop adopting foreign policies that require military solutions if they do not intend to follow through with them. Am I happy that we for the moment are not forced to contemplate, with any immediacy, the prospect of a war led by an erratic, mentally ill president? Yes. But the longer and more frequently Trump does these pointless zig-zags the more likely we will find ourselves in a major shooting war anyway. And not necessarily in the same theater; there's a reason the French government (including the then-president Hollande) repeatedly linked Obama's red line in Syria with the Russian invasion of Ukraine a few months later. Other countries notice when your warnings are toothless, and Trump has now amply signaled in multiple areas---Korea, Russia, now Iran---that he is a complete pushover whose warnings are frequently meaningless.
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Mellifleur
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:01 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:55 am 
 

He also further cemented the fact in everyone's minds that America can't be trusted even if it does pursue diplomacy by reneging on the Nuclear deal and constantly extorting allies. The Iranian government has been pretty clear saying that discussion is pointless because the US is so untrustworthy. So, now diplomacy, threats, and even shared interests won't carry much weight, leaving force as the only recourse for exerting American will and dominance... and that too is losing out as other countries develop better defenses and the US armed forces become weaker due to over-extension and corruption.
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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
Posts: 287
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:10 am 
 

Resident_Hazard wrote:
darkeningday wrote:


One of my friends is fond of saying "we are living in a cursed timeline."

They are correct.

The worst timeline would be Sanders becoming president.

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 2764
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:32 am 
 

burnroasted wrote:
Resident_Hazard wrote:
darkeningday wrote:


One of my friends is fond of saying "we are living in a cursed timeline."

They are correct.

The worst timeline would be Sanders becoming president.


Literally and physically impossible for Sanders to be worse than Trump.
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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:27 pm 
 

Anything is possible. His .5% transaction tax on "Wall Street" proposal is extremely dangerous.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:23 pm 
 

burnroasted wrote:
Anything is possible. His .5% transaction tax on "Wall Street" proposal is extremely dangerous.

Looks damned good to me. The vast majority or stock market traders have money to burn.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
Posts: 287
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:37 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
burnroasted wrote:
Anything is possible. His .5% transaction tax on "Wall Street" proposal is extremely dangerous.

Looks damned good to me. The vast majority or stock market traders have money to burn.

Yeah and they will certainly burn it somewhere else while retail investors get fucked over as usual. Not sure how it looks good for anyone.

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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 2070
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:01 pm 
 

Yeah I'm sure a small tax on vastly wealthy dudes is far more of a dangerous urgency to stop than Trump putting a vile turd in charge of the EPA that wasted tax payer's money and actively tried to sabotage the agency with less than ethical behavior, as well as his repeated Climate denial rhetoric and pushing for more fossil fuels and coal. As just one of about a billion horrible toad-like things about Trump.

But yeah, Sanders is the dangerous one.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:14 pm 
 

On the subject of using tax money to make schools tuition free and erase student loan debt as both Sanders and Warren have said their introducing bills to do so, the thing that right wingers either don’t realize or don’t comprehend thanks to decades of getting yelled at by Fox News is that the tax structure in this country is flipped pretty much the exact opposite as everybody else in the world. Here, the richest 1% of the population gets subsidized by the lower 99%, and even then there are plenty of loopholes to ensure the 1% and major corporations pay zero taxes, and the tax money that we do spend goes to things that do not directly benefit the people, like our legendarily overbloated military budget. Everywhere else, the rich are taxed heavily to subsidize the working force, and the tax money that is spent goes to robust social programming, like tuition-free colleges and universal healthcare. In those countries, peoples’ tax money goes to things that they know are beneficial for everybody, so even if the working class there pays a greater percentage of their income in taxes each year, they are fine with it because they know it’s going to things that will be useful to their society (plus they typically make way more money than we do each year while working less hours). On the other hand, in America we have this ridiculous, Ayn Randian idea that you have what you have, and fuck everyone else, so why bother actually trying to help out the less fortunate members of society? That’s how you get poor Rust Belt factory workers that support everything Republican, even though it’s totally against their own interests to do so.

If you took any of these right wingers that call what Sanders and Warren want communism and make them live in a place like Finland for a couple years, I guarantee you that their tune in the subject would change. They’d be out of the toxic American mindset of “fuck you, I’ve got mine” and actually seeing the benefits of living in a social democracy.
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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
Posts: 287
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:19 pm 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
Yeah I'm sure a small tax on vastly wealthy dudes is far more of a dangerous urgency to stop than Trump putting a vile turd in charge of the EPA that wasted tax payer's money and actively tried to sabotage the agency with less than ethical behavior, as well as his repeated Climate denial rhetoric and pushing for more fossil fuels and coal. As just one of about a billion horrible toad-like things about Trump.

But yeah, Sanders is the dangerous one.

Small tax on wealthy dudes? What are you talking about?

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Oberst_Orlok_SS
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 11:09 am
Posts: 402
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:53 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
I'm really hoping Biden gets smoked in the primary. I really don't wanna have to vote for him, just like I didn't wanna have to vote for Hillary, either.


And that, my friend, is why you have who you have in the Oval Office right now.

The Democratic Party—and to a large extent the left in general—has no one to blame but itself for the rise of Donald Trump and his subsequent victory.

First, the left lost because it emphasizes what it's against, not what it's for. For example, in outspending her opponent two-to-one, Clinton conducted one of the most negative campaigns in recent history that focused almost entirely on discrediting and demonizing Donald Trump. He helped with that process, of course, but at least ordinary Americans got some idea of what he meant to do as president. Building walls, scrapping trade deals, blowing up alliances and building up the military may be simplistic promises, but at least they’re comprehensible notions. Can anyone recall, all this time later, what Clinton promised to do? Even one memorable pledge? Could anyone predict with confidence what she would have done if she‘d won?

My point exactly.

People didn’t vote for Hillary not because she’s a woman, but because she represented no substantial or meaningful political change. Trump, for all his boorishness, at least promised to shake things up—and whatever else he’s done, he’s certainly done that.
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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:08 pm 
 

burnroasted wrote:
Small tax on wealthy dudes? What are you talking about?


More to the point, what are *you* talking about.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8198
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:32 pm 
 

burnroasted wrote:
DrummingEdge133 wrote:
Yeah I'm sure a small tax on vastly wealthy dudes is far more of a dangerous urgency to stop than Trump putting a vile turd in charge of the EPA that wasted tax payer's money and actively tried to sabotage the agency with less than ethical behavior, as well as his repeated Climate denial rhetoric and pushing for more fossil fuels and coal. As just one of about a billion horrible toad-like things about Trump.

But yeah, Sanders is the dangerous one.

Small tax on wealthy dudes? What are you talking about?


I’m pretty sure he means small in comparison to what they used to pay back in the 50s and 60s, or even what wealthy people in other parts of the world pay. The wealthiest earners used to be taxed just above 90% of their total earnings. A tax rate 70% over $10 million a year as some have advocated for is comparatively very small.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:33 pm 
 

I think Warren's proposals are generally fairly sound and well-researched, but you can't compare all of Sanders' proposals to things random European nations. From what I can find, virtually no nations currently operate a financial transaction tax of the type he proposed. Finland, mentioned above, apparently has one, but securities traded on stock exchanges are exempt, which is basically where the vast majority of the desired tax revenue would come from in Sanders' tax. Not to mention that a 0.5% tax on transactions would obviously simply kill any incentive for engaging in potentially hundreds of sub-0.5% per day. That entire sector of the economy would simply vanish or find roots in some tax haven-y nation, and the expected 2 trillion revenue would turn pennies on the dollar. That being said, crazy proposals are often compromised down in committee, assuming Sanders could ever even get a heavily-neutered version through Congress at all. Sanders is ultimately a populist demagogue; not necessarily a bad thing depending on what sentiments are built, but he's not remotely realistic.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:30 am 
 

Oberst_Orlok_SS wrote:
Trump, for all his boorishness, at least promised to shake things up—and whatever else he’s done, he’s certainly done that.

And what, precisely has he actually done to shake things up, other than being a belligerent, syphilitic leatherfaced scrotum with a dying brain? He's shook up media pundits sure, but is he actually battling against the status quo and improving material conditions for middle and lower class Americans through actual presidential policies? Cuz I'm not seeing it.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:58 am 
 

DrummingEdge133 wrote:
burnroasted wrote:
Small tax on wealthy dudes? What are you talking about?


More to the point, what are *you* talking about.

The 0.5% tax on stock transactions that Bernie proposed to pay student loans.

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:17 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
What happened (or appears to have happened, anyway) over the last 72 hours makes Obama's red line fiasco look like the pinnacle of careful policy deliberation.

Presidents really need to stop adopting foreign policies that require military solutions if they do not intend to follow through with them. Am I happy that we for the moment are not forced to contemplate, with any immediacy, the prospect of a war led by an erratic, mentally ill president? Yes. But the longer and more frequently Trump does these pointless zig-zags the more likely we will find ourselves in a major shooting war anyway. And not necessarily in the same theater; there's a reason the French government (including the then-president Hollande) repeatedly linked Obama's red line in Syria with the Russian invasion of Ukraine a few months later. Other countries notice when your warnings are toothless, and Trump has now amply signaled in multiple areas---Korea, Russia, now Iran---that he is a complete pushover whose warnings are frequently meaningless.



We are, in a very shaky sense, barely saved from a war with Iran only because Trump is an abject coward who lacks the ability to take responsibility for literally anything risky. It takes modicum of a spine for a leader to be able to take responsibility for the toll of war. That means realizing your decisions are killing your own people, and while Trump can easily disregard brown people's lives at the border, he clearly cannot handle sending people into war.
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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:58 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
burnroasted wrote:
DrummingEdge133 wrote:
Yeah I'm sure a small tax on vastly wealthy dudes is far more of a dangerous urgency to stop than Trump putting a vile turd in charge of the EPA that wasted tax payer's money and actively tried to sabotage the agency with less than ethical behavior, as well as his repeated Climate denial rhetoric and pushing for more fossil fuels and coal. As just one of about a billion horrible toad-like things about Trump.

But yeah, Sanders is the dangerous one.

Small tax on wealthy dudes? What are you talking about?


I’m pretty sure he means small in comparison to what they used to pay back in the 50s and 60s, or even what wealthy people in other parts of the world pay. The wealthiest earners used to be taxed just above 90% of their total earnings. A tax rate 70% over $10 million a year as some have advocated for is comparatively very small.


Okay but with Sanders proposal it would just be the middle class paying for it while rich dudes go to another market.

It'll never happen of course but it just shows that Sanders is a just complete moron pandering to the economically illiterate.

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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:18 pm 
 

Economic illiteracy? In modern US politics?! Surely you jest, sir.
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korgull
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:53 am
Posts: 886
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:40 pm 
 

Robert Reich wrote:
Wall Street says even a small transaction tax on financial transactions would drive trading overseas since financial trades can easily be done elsewhere.

Baloney. The U.K. has had a tax on stock trades for decades, yet remains one of the world’s financial powerhouses. Incidentally, that tax raises about 3 billion pounds yearly. That’s the equivalent of 30 billion in an economy the size of the United States, which is a big help for Britain’s budget. At least 28 other countries also have such a tax and the European Union is well on the way to implementing one.

Wall Street also claims that the tax would burden small investors such as as retirees, business owners and average savers.

Wrong again. The tax wouldn’t be a burden if it reduces the volume and frequency of trading, which is the whole point. In fact, the tax is highly progressive. The Tax Policy Center estimates that 75% of it would be paid by the richest 5th of taxpayers and 40% by the top 1%.

https://robertreich.org/post/148746866860

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:22 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Economic illiteracy? In modern US politics?! Surely you jest, sir.


I can't even imagine having a totally economically illiterate president.

And by "can't" I mean that I don't even need to, since we've been watching one for two years.

Again, there's no way Sanders would be worse than Trump. No way at all.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:42 pm 
 

korgull wrote:
Robert Reich wrote:
Wall Street says even a small transaction tax on financial transactions would drive trading overseas since financial trades can easily be done elsewhere.

Baloney. The U.K. has had a tax on stock trades for decades, yet remains one of the world’s financial powerhouses. Incidentally, that tax raises about 3 billion pounds yearly. That’s the equivalent of 30 billion in an economy the size of the United States, which is a big help for Britain’s budget. At least 28 other countries also have such a tax and the European Union is well on the way to implementing one.

Wall Street also claims that the tax would burden small investors such as as retirees, business owners and average savers.

Wrong again. The tax wouldn’t be a burden if it reduces the volume and frequency of trading, which is the whole point. In fact, the tax is highly progressive. The Tax Policy Center estimates that 75% of it would be paid by the richest 5th of taxpayers and 40% by the top 1%.

https://robertreich.org/post/148746866860

Fuck'in GOT 'EM.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:11 pm 
 

LMFAO, r/The_Donald got quarantined.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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HamburgerBoy
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:40 am
Posts: 1688
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:28 am 
 

korgull wrote:
Robert Reich wrote:
Wall Street says even a small transaction tax on financial transactions would drive trading overseas since financial trades can easily be done elsewhere.

Baloney. The U.K. has had a tax on stock trades for decades, yet remains one of the world’s financial powerhouses. Incidentally, that tax raises about 3 billion pounds yearly. That’s the equivalent of 30 billion in an economy the size of the United States, which is a big help for Britain’s budget. At least 28 other countries also have such a tax and the European Union is well on the way to implementing one.

Wall Street also claims that the tax would burden small investors such as as retirees, business owners and average savers.

Wrong again. The tax wouldn’t be a burden if it reduces the volume and frequency of trading, which is the whole point. In fact, the tax is highly progressive. The Tax Policy Center estimates that 75% of it would be paid by the richest 5th of taxpayers and 40% by the top 1%.

https://robertreich.org/post/148746866860


How does that factor in effects on the already-existing capital gains tax? Day traders that make profits still pay at least 15% on said profits. And 3 billion pounds is a far cry from Sanders' expected 2 trillion dollars, particularly when both taxes are apparently 0.5% (though the UK tax apparently isn't applicable to all trades, only trades of stocks over UK-based companies, unlike the universal one Sanders is proposing).

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:35 am 
 

Watching the debate just now. Castro did alright, and Gabbard had some good moments. Some of those people have absolutely no business being there (Tim Ryan...John Dulaney, go home, you dull centrist fuck) but to me the very clear winners of that debate were Warren and Booker. If any democrat is going to beat Biden (and Trump) they need to have that level of fire both in their policies and their presence. Those two at least have what it takes.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:23 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Watching the debate just now. Castro did alright, and Gabbard had some good moments. Some of those people have absolutely no business being there (Tim Ryan...John Dulaney, go home, you dull centrist fuck) but to me the very clear winners of that debate were Warren and Booker. If any democrat is going to beat Biden (and Trump) they need to have that level of fire both in their policies and their presence. Those two at least have what it takes.



I read follow-ups. The general consensus is that Warren won the shit out of that debate. Beto, Ryan, and Dulaney need to go home now. Start clearing that line-up already.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:12 pm 
 

Warren and de Blasio were the winners for me, with Castro being surprisingly very good on some points and expectedly crappy on others. Everyone else needs to get the fuck out and go back to being centrist hacks.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:13 pm 
 

I really like de Blasio, I think he has what it takes to take on Trump. Unfortunately, I don't think he has a chance in hell of winning, but I'd love to see him stay in the race, if only to debate Joe Biden on policy. The way he obliterated Beto on healthcare was reminiscent of Muhammad Ali vs Sonny Liston.

Completely off topic, this belongs here
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:27 pm 
 

Beto was so so bad, holyshit he's done. Clear winner for me was Warren, she's a distant #2 behind Bernie.

Booker really wants to be someone's VP.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:49 pm 
 

Beto killed his chances the moment he spoke in poorly-accented Spanish for his first answer and everyone onstage looked at him in bewilderment. It's just like Lincoln Chafee in the first debate for 2016.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:04 pm 
 

And then he did it AGAIN later on, as if he wasn't sure people were paying attention the first time lol. Stick a fork in him, White Worse Obama is done.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:37 pm 
 

Booker would make a good VP but honestly he'd make an even better Secretary of State (or president). Shit though, it will be a shame to lose someone like that in the senate (same for Warren, obviously).

de Blasio had some kind of awkward moments early on but did better later on. Agree on Beto shitting the bed. That Spanish was so fuckin' pandery, exacerbated by the fact that he busted it out to...not even remotely answer the question. I dunno what was funnier, that, or Dulaney's constant whining about not getting enough time to keep harping on how great of a bipartisan centrist he is. Klobuchar (and some others) bringing up their resume stats was also pretty embarrassing. Nobody cares if you were the "senior democrat" on some bipartisan bill that Trump signed.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:00 am 
 

Same for Copmala and Bernie, really. Kamala owning Biden was a high point of the night for me, even though I'm highly skeptical of her for the most part. I thought Bernie did great. Poor Yang, he barely even spoke, and I still have no idea how the fuck Marianne Williamson got in.

Interesting night, but there's still no clear frontrunner compared to 2016. Maybe that's a good thing.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:09 am 
 

Kamala and Bernie easily won this night, while last night belonged to Warren, de Blasio, and Castro. I can see those five being the ones to make it to the "Now we're actually trying" debates early next year. Biden will get to that point too, solely because he's Joe Biden, even though he looked fucking awful tonight beyond just getting bitchslapped by Harris.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:32 am 
 

Gonna watch part 2 tomorrow (stupid time zones).

I really hope Biden starts dropping in the polls after these debates get off the ground. I can only imagine that all of the more progressive dems will split their votes among various candidates while old people and centrists rally around Biden, giving him the nomination. C'mon, people, look back on 2016. Splitting votes between good candidates gives shitty ones the edge, and running old guard centrist Democrats against Trump is a surefire way to make sure he stays in the White House.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:12 pm 
 

One Belt, One Road is proceeding to make Eurasia the biggest trade corridor in the world and the EU and Mercosur just finalised a free trade agreement, makes me wonder more and more why we need to continue pretending to be intimidated by Trump's threats on trade with the USA. The global enonomy is in the process of finding ways around his isolationism ideas.
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:17 am 
 

Watching Part 2 now.

Marianne Williamson is a fuckin' nutcase. Talking about fluoride in our water and is an anti-vaxxer. Hopefully she drops out (or at least doesn't qualify for debates anymore) because that shit is just embarrassing. Yang is nearly on that level, but at least his ideas aren't patently insane, just sort of off base for what's important in the U.S. right now.

There are still a few issues where I wish he was further to the left, but Pete Buttigieg is just so fuckin' sharp. Man, you know, bless Bernie, but politicians just fucking answering the questions they're asked with detailed answers instead of just pivoting to platform talking points is almost unheard of and he does it masterfully, calmly, yet with a lot of charisma. Sadly, I think that this greatest strength of his will be lost on most people, but I guess we'll see.

The nobodies this time were even more annoying - bunch of boring establishment Democrats who kept shouting into their mics. Annoying stuff. The debate would've been much better off without Hickenlooper, Swalwell, and Bennet.

Biden was just an embarrassment. Hope he drops like a rock in the polls after that performance. That flip-flop on health care for undocumented immigrants in the middle of the debate was mind-boggling. I honestly couldn't tell if that was a conscious flip-flop, or a "senior moment." Edit: Oh shit, this "raise your hand if you think we should decriminalize undocumented border crossings" question...everyone either clearly raised their hands or not, except fucking Biden, who was doing this half-assed sort of hand up sometimes with a finger up so that no one could nail down his stance on this issue, then they followed up to ask him because his answer was unclear, then he dodged that question again. Terrible.

Gillibrand did well (but went over time too often, and interrupted people too much), as did Harris (though she fumbled over some words now and then, fared very well in the second half), and Bernie was Bernie.

Edit: Holy shit Harris annihilated Biden. He was shook something fierce after that, and his response to her was just fumbling nonsense.
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Unorthodox
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:31 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
One Belt, One Road is proceeding to make Eurasia the biggest trade corridor in the world and the EU and Mercosur just finalised a free trade agreement, makes me wonder more and more why we need to continue pretending to be intimidated by Trump's threats on trade with the USA. The global enonomy is in the process of finding ways around his isolationism ideas.


Trump's isolation ideology is a short term issue and hopefully won't be held with merit for much longer, regardless of whether he is a 4 or 8 year president. That's the problem with America- short ideological disagreements create entirely different executions of policy which can completely alter the way America communicates and behaves with other countries. Look at Obama pulling out of Iraq immediately after Bush killed hundreds of thousands. The more polarized we become as a nation, the more the variability of diplomatic behavior increases. Right now, we are at a period of extreme isolationism, but whether this will acutely or slightly affect our overall diplomatic power is, in my opinion, unknown at this point.

The problem with China's One Belt, One Road is that the country's of Europe that are willing to do their forefront of trade with China become increasingly dependent on, well, China- a country of 1+ Billion people. Authoritarians with an exorbitant population to take care of, such as China, are not the people Europeans would ideally want to do central business with, or become greatly dependent upon. They are a country that already depends on buying land from America to feed its people, a country that has a very high probability of have serious resource depletion/environmental catastrophes that will greatly impede their ability to effectively negotiate trade deals with other countries. Make no mistake- diplomacy between countries/states/providences/tribes/etc is entirely dependent on scarcity of resources and stability of populations. The minute one group feels the violent pull of resource depletion or a large death toll, the less they are willing to negotiate with other nations.

Rather, America is the better country to do business with. In my opinion, the best metric for a good economy is not GDP or job creation, but rather, the GDP per Population ratio. In other words, it's important to understand how much economic activity is created in terms of the total population producing said economy. America, by this metric, does rather well. Studying how this number works is really important (and, if you're not really good at math like 99% of people, will help you with applying ratios hahaha). It's very noteworthy that America is the 19th country in rank, because all the other countries have a smaller population. This means that each person is producing a large "chunk" of economic gains. So large, that even though we have 320 million Americans, there is still a larger GDP created that counteracts our total population. Compare that to China, who ends up as 108 on the list. That means, per population, they are producing less by each citizen, which means the overall wealth they have to ideally transfer amongst its people is low. This explains the high amount of their population that is in the poverty class (and all shines a bit of light on why their middle class is bigger than America's entire population).

I'm a little shitfaced right now and hopefully I'm making sense, but these are really important factors to consider when talking about "who to do diplomacy with". Would you rather do diplomacy with a great economy that will, generally, have less resource issues, or one with a large population that, in the future, almost certainly will have resource issues? Serious questions all Europeaners should be asking.

iamntbatman wrote:
Stuff on Debate #2


I was sorely fuckin' disappointed with Bernie's performance, but I do think he'll get better as more debates come about. He needs to transfer from his 2016 "lets push the party more left" rhetoric and go into why other candidates aren't going to be the progressive he is. In other words- rhetorically, he's already showed leftist politicians that in order to win, you need lay a more progressive agenda than what was created by HRC in 2016. However, that doesn't exactly mean everyone saying progressive things are really progressive. Furthermore, 30-60 second sound bites during a debate is not enough for any of the candidates to accurately reveal their positions, even though there are serious differences between candidates that on the surface look the same. It's easy to say "medicare for all" but have a different idea of what that looks like (such as Kirstin Gillibrand). It's easy to espouse Climate as a concern without stating when America will get off fossil fuels (which I think all the candidates except Inslee, including Bernie, have been rather weak on).

I will say that Kamala Harris impressed the shit out of me, because I do think she will beat the ever living shit out of Trump on the floor of a debate. But she still doesn't have the record of consistent progressive ideals Bernie has, which makes me hesitant to consider supporting her. But I do think, compared to 2016, the overarching goal of the Democrats should be to defeat the lunatic Right any goddam fucking way they can. But I'm still idealistic and want someone who will represent my views the best, and because of that, I'm still incredibly undecided based on this first debate.

Half of the people needa drop out, fast. It's giving no air time to candidates that actually have a chance.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:09 am 
 

Two-party politics is in shambles both in USA and UK. It has shown itself to be far more vulnerable to outside subversion than multi-party systems, where the rise of white nationalist populism is balanced out by green and progressive left small parties, which are completely drowned out in a system like USA's. The Democratic party is seemingly committed to destroying itself in every election with unvotable candidates, just like UK's Labour doomed itself to complete impotence despite Tories' enormous floundering that would've send the party absolutely reeling in normal circumstances by any sane, functioning party in the opposition.

Compared to the union-backed Labour, Democrats is more capitalist/establishment-backed, which has made it vulnerable in a different way. The establishment wants to go radical centrist in an answer to GOP's spiraling down into white nationalist insanity, whereas everyone sane wants to take the opportunity to create an actual progressive left party out of the Dems. This seems to tear the party's supporters apart into too many different camps, whereas the people at GOP are submissive enough to unite behind any cheeto-faced, demented demagogue, who shows genuine promise at being able to keep GOP holding onto the grips of political power in the US.

Anyway, that's what I've gathered from the utterly bizarre situation there right now. Hope is poison, fellas, imagine the worst possible outcome, and prepare for the even worse. Should the EU put sanctions on the US until they get their human rights abuses in check? :lol:
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