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Waltz_of_Ghouls
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:24 am
Posts: 451
Location: Quebec City, Canada
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:46 pm 
 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligence-committee-possession-video-audio-recordings-giuliani/story?id=67276448

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/25/rudy-giuliani-consulting-firm-eyed-in-federal-subpoenas.html

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Is this infrastructure week?
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severzhavnost
Veteran

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
Posts: 2583
Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:10 pm 
 

This could be posted in the Sports Thread too, but what the hell:
https://www.necn.com/news/new-england/B ... 47152.html
Sometimes I shock myself. His defence of minor league baseball has me seriously lining up to join Team Bernie. MLB’s proposal to unilaterally shutter 42 minor league teams kills literally thousands of jobs around the US (and possibly Canada, though I think the Vancouver Canadians are profitable). It’s great that Sen. Sanders is taking the MLB to task over their woefully unsustainable business model - chopping out the bottom of the ladder so they can afford paying Bryce Harper and friends half a billion. :finger:
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DrummingEdge133
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:48 pm
Posts: 2125
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:02 pm 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
This could be posted in the Sports Thread too, but what the hell:
https://www.necn.com/news/new-england/B ... 47152.html
Sometimes I shock myself. His defence of minor league baseball has me seriously lining up to join Team Bernie. MLB’s proposal to unilaterally shutter 42 minor league teams kills literally thousands of jobs around the US (and possibly Canada, though I think the Vancouver Canadians are profitable). It’s great that Sen. Sanders is taking the MLB to task over their woefully unsustainable business model - chopping out the bottom of the ladder so they can afford paying Bryce Harper and friends half a billion. :finger:


Yeah, this sucks for professional baseball around North America. I think the effect is understated that it'll have on team's development of young players. That's over 1,000 less players within MLB teams' direct minor league system playing professionally that they won't have spots for to develop and train up for the MLB. I think it'll hurt the talent pool of some teams, which is already hurting as it is.

Not to mention how it'll effect places locally, since a good chunk of those minor league teams are usually in smaller cities or towns and employ people other than just the actual pro ball players themselves. A real shame.

Lord knows Bryce Harper is overrated and overpaid like hell.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4956
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:50 pm 
 

This Onion article nicely summarizes all of my thoughts on Mayo Pete: https://politics.theonion.com/pete-butt ... 1840149324
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8276
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:18 pm 
 

Harris is OUT.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/03/kamala- ... -race.html
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1400
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:39 pm 
 

Yeah, that sort of surprised me, but then when I thought about it there was that staffer who came out and pretty much said Harris' whole staff was in complete disarray, so in light of that I guess it's not too surprising. Good thing she was able to see the writing on the wall.
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 9456
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:05 am 
 

2018 Germany made 3rd place in the nations most affected economically by climate change, the endless rainless summer made our rivers dry up that we use for transporting a lot of goods causing a severe hit to the economy. Thanks Donald.

Japan and Phillippines made first and second place respectively in the annual index. The long term index is led by U.S. territory Puerto Rico, the snake bites its own tail.
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into_the_pit
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:40 pm
Posts: 2687
Location: Hedonist Occupation Government
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:10 am 
 

droneriot wrote:
The long term index is led by U.S. territory Puerto Rico, the snake bites its own tail.


more like its appendix, even though the image may be a bit clumsy. puerto what?
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9852
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 2:08 pm 
 

All the memes about the other country leaders laughing at Trump is giving me life
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4956
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:38 pm 
 

Funny as hell. But then you read that he just kicked 700,000 people off food stamps and it's not funny, it's just hell.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:26 am 
 

As of today Trump is a dotard again. Even his dictator buddies don't like him anymore.
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matras
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:01 am
Posts: 843
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 4:57 am 
 

This was an interesting read:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 32386.html

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Musick
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Posts: 644
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:21 pm 
 

“...The new rule, which was finalized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, restricts states from exempting certain "work-eligible adults" without dependents from the steady employment requirement in order to receive SNAP benefits.

The change, which takes effect on April 1, 2020, does not apply to children and their parents, those over 50 (including the elderly), those with a disability or pregnant women...”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 608297001/

Yet another reason to like the guy - we need to close the "food stamp loophole". The food stamp cut comes at a good time. The economy is doing well, and there are a lot of jobs to be had. Too many lifetime welfare recipients who are way overdue need to get to work.

CNN ratings are at a 3 year low, Trumps approval rating is moving up and support for impeachment continues to drop. 332 more days until re-election.
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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
Posts: 6526
Location: Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:55 pm 
 

Musick wrote:
“...The new rule, which was finalized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, restricts states from exempting certain "work-eligible adults" without dependents from the steady employment requirement in order to receive SNAP benefits.

The change, which takes effect on April 1, 2020, does not apply to children and their parents, those over 50 (including the elderly), those with a disability or pregnant women...”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 608297001/

Yet another reason to like the guy - we need to close the "food stamp loophole". The food stamp cut comes at a good time. The economy is doing well, and there are a lot of jobs to be had. Too many lifetime welfare recipients who are way overdue need to get to work.

CNN ratings are at a 3 year low, Trumps approval rating is moving up and support for impeachment continues to drop. 332 more days until re-election.

Image
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4956
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:21 pm 
 

Why is it whenever a Trumple stumbles into this thread, they're never touting one of the like 5 unambiguously good things Donnie did, like avoiding war with Iran, passing a federal crime bill that deincarcertes people who should be never have been locked up in the first place, kicking out John Bolton or shooting down TPP? Nah, it's always "child separation is good actually because there's a 0.00001% chance the chaperone is a sex trafficker" or "Dr. Ford was just some poor dumb lady who Democrats brainwashed into believing she got molested by a paragon of good will and virtue and boofing" or "guys, people who literally can't afford fucking food and are likely unable to find work (as no one would readily volunteer for food stamps as they're highly restrictive, crappy and carry a huge stigma) not only shouldn't be allowed to have a baseline standard of living (cuz of course, what is this a first-world country?) but shouldn't even be allowed to eat processed cheese and oatmeal and beans and orange juice, unlike Jeff Bezos, who DESERVES that extra 5 billion he made (and packed away into savings, of course) without lifting so much as a finger thanks to Trump's absolutely delightful tax cuts!"

There is something notable with this one, though: you've actually managed to out-deplorable even the child concentration camp guy. Demonizing the single most destitute and deprived citizens in the entire country, spitting on their hand when they politely ask if they can eat the leftovers you were planning to throw away anyway, really takes mad dark energy. Well done.

As for Trump's reelection... think lightning will strike twice in a row?
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Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8103
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:06 pm 
 

It wasn't a lightning strike. It was simply the conclusion of a broken, gerrymandered system, and opposition complacency and ineptitude. Neither of those two has shoen any signs of improvement.
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 9456
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2019 6:36 pm 
 

What a small world, guess I can ask my mom if Trump was on to something in the request that lead to his impeachment proceedings, seems the oligarch behind it is a buddy of her former boss. He was arrested today at his horse ranch 50km from here.
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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 1114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:45 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
There is something notable with this one, though: you've actually managed to out-deplorable even the child concentration camp guy. Demonizing the single most destitute and deprived citizens in the entire country, spitting on their hand when they politely ask if they can eat the leftovers you were planning to throw away anyway, really takes mad dark energy. Well done.


Fuckin-A dude. Well done indeed. :lol: That burn is going to keep the rest of us warm all winter.
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Musick
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Posts: 644
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:46 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Why is it whenever a Trumple stumbles into this thread, they're never touting one of the like 5 unambiguously good things Donnie did, like avoiding war with Iran, passing a federal crime bill that deincarcertes people who should be never have been locked up in the first place, kicking out John Bolton or shooting down TPP? Nah, it's always "child separation is good actually because there's a 0.00001% chance the chaperone is a sex trafficker" or "Dr. Ford was just some poor dumb lady who Democrats brainwashed into believing she got molested by a paragon of good will and virtue and boofing" or "guys, people who literally can't afford fucking food and are likely unable to find work (as no one would readily volunteer for food stamps as they're highly restrictive, crappy and carry a huge stigma) not only shouldn't be allowed to have a baseline standard of living (cuz of course, what is this a first-world country?) but shouldn't even be allowed to eat processed cheese and oatmeal and beans and orange juice, unlike Jeff Bezos, who DESERVES that extra 5 billion he made (and packed away into savings, of course) without lifting so much as a finger thanks to Trump's absolutely delightful tax cuts!"


What?? Can you not use punctuation marks? Did you copy that meandering diatribe from a Dr. Bronner's soap label? Total straw man argument.

darkeningday wrote:
There is something notable with this one, though: you've actually managed to out-deplorable even the child concentration camp guy. Demonizing the single most destitute and deprived citizens in the entire country, spitting on their hand when they politely ask if they can eat the leftovers you were planning to throw away anyway, really takes mad dark energy. Well done.


What?? It has NO impact on children. You obviously didn’t even read my post let alone the article. Purely just an emotional response.

darkeningday wrote:
As for Trump's reelection... think lightning will strike twice in a row?


Who is going to beat him? Between Yang spraying whipped cream into the mouths of kneeling fans, (you can even see his campaign manager realizing the horrendously bad optics and nauseating innuendo happening here) and Biden commenting on his curly leg hair and loving the little kids jumping on his lap, the lack of qualified Democratic candidates is frightening.
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1400
PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:33 pm 
 

Musick wrote:
“...The new rule, which was finalized by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, restricts states from exempting certain "work-eligible adults" without dependents from the steady employment requirement in order to receive SNAP benefits.

The change, which takes effect on April 1, 2020, does not apply to children and their parents, those over 50 (including the elderly), those with a disability or pregnant women...”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 608297001/

Yet another reason to like the guy - we need to close the "food stamp loophole". The food stamp cut comes at a good time. The economy is doing well, and there are a lot of jobs to be had. Too many lifetime welfare recipients who are way overdue need to get to work.

CNN ratings are at a 3 year low, Trumps approval rating is moving up and support for impeachment continues to drop. 332 more days until re-election.


For one, the economy moves in cycles of expansions and recessions, so to say "these food stamps cuts come at a good time" is a half-baked idea. Those assistance programs are meant to be there regardless of how the economy is doing. It would be very hard to make more assistance programs during recession, and making them simply because of a recession would be just as foolish as cutting them because of an expansion.

Secondly, the amount of people this actually effects is negligible. To date, there's 327.2 million Americans, which means this will effect .21% of the entire population. What would help a greater percentage of Americans in the long term is transferring more wealth to ordinary Americans through increase capital gains taxes that would help expand social programs such as public healthcare. Forcing a few extra plebeians to work does nothing.

Lastly, on a more broader note, this measure is more of Trump virtue signaling to people that uphold this narrative in their heads that there is a conglomerate of fat lazy Americans who do nothing but mooch off the government. Not to say that those kinds of people dont exist, but again, when it comes down to it, we're talking about .21% of the entire population when discounting parents, those over 50 (including the elderly), and those with a disability or pregnant women. That percentage alone totally disproves the narrative that this group of people exists in large numbers.

edit:
Trumps approval rating has not increased, it's stayed stagnant. Nevertheless, I think he still has a chance of winning the electoral college in a similar fashion to last time (IE, losing the popular vote and winning the electoral).
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Sepulchrave
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 1672
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:54 am 
 

Musick wrote:
My tongue tastes like boot polish.
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8276
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:29 am 
 

Musick’s the kind of person that reads about the hostage UPS driver being murdered by the cops and thanks the cops for performing a public service.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4956
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:45 am 
 

Food stamps are a stabilizer to correct for structural deficiencies in an economy. They don't exist because bleeding heart libturds wanna give free lunches to lazy people, they're a safety net to prevent serious civil unrest. Fucking nobody wants to be on food stamps, they're there because the people who get them actually need them, very rarely at the fault of their own, despite the Trump administration claiming otherwise. This has nothing to do with "saving the average hard-working citizen tax dollars," you'd find more money in less than a single percent of the money Jeff Bezos didn't pay in federal income taxes than the entire SNAP budget. The point, like the point of most of the loudly announced actions of the Trump administration, is cruelty to the weakest people in the country as a catharsis for economic anxiety. We're fighting to the death over table scraps while an increasingly small group of people pick their teeth with diamonds, and rather than saying, "wait, wouldn't one of those precious gem toothpicks feed us all for a week" Musick is just like "WTF that guy just took THREE pieces of chicken gristle, seize him!"

It's the most cucked mindset imaginable.

On a positive note: Bernie is poised to win the Democratic nomination. He will crucify Trump in a general, particularly if the economy, which has been running on Obama fumes for the past four years, craters. Even if the economy holds steady, Bernie would obliterate Trump because: Rust Belt.
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Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1804
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:30 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
Musick’s the kind of person that reads about the hostage UPS driver being murdered by the cops and thanks the cops for performing a public service.

Yes, because how dare the people who serve and protect you make a horrible mistake trying to stop a bad guy doing bad things in a very short amount of time with literally tons of other people in the vicinity...

It's almost as if they wanted the UPS driver to die, right?
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Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8003
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 11:34 am 
 

To be fair, that kind of "mistake" happens often enough and under so many different circumstances that it feels very disingenous to call it unintentional. I don't think most cops care enough about their job to do it well, and given the high stakes of said job, this results in the deaths of many innocent people. Then factor in corruption and the power trip that usually comes with being given an often unquestioned level of authority over your fellow man (mostly due to the possibility of suffering retribution from such an authority, as you cannot fairly stand your ground against it), and suddenly those sorts of incidents become much less defensible.

The vast majority of people don't have the mindset required to be an active agent of the law, nor are they interested in developing it, and the American police institution is overwhelming evidence of that.
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Musick
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:43 pm
Posts: 644
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:14 pm 
 

Ill start by acknowledging your three statements are reasonable but I feel philosophically we are in two different places. Thats OK, different opinions are fine – no tolerance is intolerance. I do have a few comments.

Unorthodox wrote:
For one, the economy moves in cycles of expansions and recessions, so to say "these food stamps cuts come at a good time" is a half-baked idea. Those assistance programs are meant to be there regardless of how the economy is doing. It would be very hard to make more assistance programs during recession, and making them simply because of a recession would be just as foolish as cutting them because of an expansion.


There is abuse in those programs that needs to be addressed. As human beings we should be continuously working on our professional/personal development and expecting government agencies to do the same is not unreasonable.

Unorthodox wrote:
Secondly, the amount of people this actually effects is negligible. To date, there's 327.2 million Americans, which means this will effect .21% of the entire population. What would help a greater percentage of Americans in the long term is transferring more wealth to ordinary Americans through increase capital gains taxes that would help expand social programs such as public healthcare. Forcing a few extra plebeians to work does nothing.


Reallocating wealth is something we will have to disagree on. Im in favor of decreased taxes and increased personal accountability, not taking from one group and giving it to another.

Unorthodox wrote:
Lastly, on a more broader note, this measure is more of Trump virtue signaling to people that uphold this narrative in their heads that there is a conglomerate of fat lazy Americans who do nothing but mooch off the government. Not to say that those kinds of people dont exist, but again, when it comes down to it, we're talking about .21% of the entire population when discounting parents, those over 50 (including the elderly), and those with a disability or pregnant women. That percentage alone totally disproves the narrative that this group of people exists in large numbers.

edit:
Trumps approval rating has not increased, it's stayed stagnant. Nevertheless, I think he still has a chance of winning the electoral college in a similar fashion to last time (IE, losing the popular vote and winning the electoral).


Again, if there is abuse it should be exposed and addressed regardless of size. Realclearpolitics has a mixed record regarding accuracy but I digress, two sides pulling numbers from "ImRight.com" leads nowhere in my experience.
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 9456
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:35 pm 
 

Musick wrote:
Reallocating wealth is something we will have to disagree on. Im in favor of decreased taxes and increased personal accountability, not taking from one group and giving it to another.

Then you should be against Trump and the likes. Libertarianism in practice is one big wealth redistribution programme where money is stolen from the hard working lower and middle classes and reallocated towards the upper class. It isn't that way in theoretical libertarianism, but in practice it always ends up that way. The reason that happens is that with the lack of oversight and with the "small government", no one will check on the rich breaking the law and cheating their customers anymore, so instead of paying $15 for your mobile service you suddenly pay $50, instead of paying $3 for your meal, you suddenly pay $8, instead of paying $300 for your apartment, you suddenly pay $750. With oversight removed, there will be no repercussions for those who break the law this way, which in practice defeats theoretical libertarianism and contrary to its theoretical purpose turns it into a big wealth redistribution programme worthy of Karl Marx in reverse.

How about if you wanna end artificial wealth redistribution, you'd start thinking about wanting to end it both ways?

For me that's the thing. I'm not an anti-capitalist, I'm not against capitalism. I just believe that for capitalism to work, the rule of law would have to be fully applied. Not just to some brown people who mug old women or whatever what right wing people obsess so much about, but applied to EVERYONE, including all the super-rich who break the law in various ways every single day. I believe capitalism would actually work quite nicely and be quite beneficial if everybody followed the law and stopped hurting people to their own advantage and then paying off authorities to look the other way. That could be quite a decent society actually. But the "small government" ideal of libertarians where a highly criminal and destructive upper class can fuck everybody over a million times with complete impunity? Won't ever work. A corrupt system based entirely on crime will never work. It can't work. It's a disaster by its own definition.
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nestee8
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:05 pm
Posts: 280
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:55 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
instead of paying $300 for your apartment, you suddenly pay $750..


Bitch please, I'm now paying $1,485 for my apartment (I'm in NJ).

In other news...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/minimum-wa ... wage-jobs/

Quote:
America's unemployment rate is at a half-century low, but it also has a job-quality problem that affects nearly half the population, with a study finding 44% of U.S. workers are employed in low-wage jobs that pay median annual wages of $18,000.

Contrary to popular opinion, these workers aren't teenagers or young adults just starting their careers, write Martha Ross and Nicole Bateman of the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Program, which conducted the analysis.

Most of the 53 million Americans working in low-wage jobs are adults in their prime working years, or between about 25 to 54, they noted. Their median hourly wage is $10.22 per hour — that's above the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour but well below what's considered the living wage for many regions.


This is what our economy has become, let that sink in.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 9456
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:02 pm 
 

Yeah that's a great thing about superficial numbers like economic growth and employment rates. People working for nothing boosts those numbers a lot. Good thing so many Americans are brainwashed to somehow be against unions, otherwise you'd have a real problem. Glad that with all the problems my country has that in my country, when companies say "we're offering 9 euros per hour wage" people can still say "fuck off" because that's the only realistic response for that joke of a "wage." Nobody can even pay their rent with that shit.
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Mellifleur
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Posts: 257
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:32 pm 
 

When someone misses a loan payment and gets hit with penalty fees and interest, those costs are considered "financial services" and count as an increase to GDP. The more people go into debt peonage, the more the GDP goes up, therefor the better off they are! Perfect PHD in Economics logic. :D
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1400
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:31 am 
 

Musick wrote:
Ill start by acknowledging your three statements are reasonable but I feel philosophically we are in two different places. Thats OK, different opinions are fine – no tolerance is intolerance. I do have a few comments.

Glad we can try to reason with one another.
Musick wrote:
Unorthodox wrote:
For one, the economy moves in cycles of expansions and recessions, so to say "these food stamps cuts come at a good time" is a half-baked idea. Those assistance programs are meant to be there regardless of how the economy is doing. It would be very hard to make more assistance programs during recession, and making them simply because of a recession would be just as foolish as cutting them because of an expansion.

There is abuse in those programs that needs to be addressed. As human beings we should be continuously working on our professional/personal development and expecting government agencies to do the same is not unreasonable.

I'm a little confused by this statement. Do you mean that the government should seek to constantly improve itself? In that case, how it improves itself is completely subjective and up to debate. I obviously dont see cutting 680,000 people from food stamps as improvement. It's not even making things significantly worse. It's generally just insignificant.
Musick wrote:
Reallocating wealth is something we will have to disagree on. Im in favor of decreased taxes and increased personal accountability, not taking from one group and giving it to another.

There's a lot I could talk about with these statements. And you're right- we may just need to disagree. But, firstly, we reallocate wealth every day in the form of public roads, public schools, public firemen, and public police officers. If you disagree with having these programs, then while it may be logically consistent with a worldview of Übermensch-like personal accountability, it is to the detriment of our overall society. Not everyone can stop crimes, not everyone can put out a fire in their own house, not everyone has the time to educate their children or the money to send them to a private school. And, on that note, not everyone has enough money to afford the premiums and deductibles required to by into private healthcare providers (albeit they may have too much money to qualify for medicaid because the threshold is incredibly low). If you don't have the basic necessities for survival distributed to the population at large, then the population at large will ultimately suffer. And that's what we see now. There are 44 million Americans without health insurance. That's 44 million people that are one health crisis away from being in mountains of debt. And that's bad for the economy, because when people are in debt, they don't spend, and when they don't spend, business slows down. Those are also people that work 40 hour work weeks and provide for families- that's why they're not on medicaid, so the whole "personal responsibility" argument really can't be used in this context.

At the same time, there's so much money in the hands of rich people that they literally don't know what to do with it. I posted this article on the previous page of this thread, but it's certainly worth posting again. Money is free for those who are creditworthy, but it's literally unavailable to those that aren't. While this system certainly did help revive our economy since the 2008 recession, at this point, it hasn't led to higher economic growth. Rather, it's simply inflated corporations market capitalization without creating higher demand bases, and allowed corporations that have no future growth increase their debt. This is why the last 6 years has had, on average, 20+ PE ratios among companies in the S&P 500.

This is why reallocation is so important. It's beyond what you think of as a 'philisophically principled worldview'. It's about the mechanics of the economy, and how without reallocating money, there's going to be less and less growth and more and more stagnation.
Musick wrote:
Unorthodox wrote:
Lastly, on a more broader note, this measure is more of Trump virtue signaling to people that uphold this narrative in their heads that there is a conglomerate of fat lazy Americans who do nothing but mooch off the government. Not to say that those kinds of people dont exist, but again, when it comes down to it, we're talking about .21% of the entire population when discounting parents, those over 50 (including the elderly), and those with a disability or pregnant women. That percentage alone totally disproves the narrative that this group of people exists in large numbers.

edit:
Trumps approval rating has not increased, it's stayed stagnant. Nevertheless, I think he still has a chance of winning the electoral college in a similar fashion to last time (IE, losing the popular vote and winning the electoral).


Again, if there is abuse it should be exposed and addressed regardless of size. Realclearpolitics has a mixed record regarding accuracy but I digress, two sides pulling numbers from "ImRight.com" leads nowhere in my experience.


The polling data I posted is drawn out from millions of different sources, including fox news. Realclearpolitics has absolutely no agenda in this. Hate to say it, this sort of response comes across as an emotional deflection to facts that oppose your initial statement.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:42 am 
 

RCP is actually a very right-leaning outfit, but their poll data is generally reliable. I'm a leftist but I'd take RCP over NYT, WaPo or WSJ any. damn. day. But yes, facts don't much agree with Trump so I could see why they'd be upsetting to Musick.

Mellifleur wrote:
When someone misses a loan payment and gets hit with penalty fees and interest, those costs are considered "financial services" and count as an increase to GDP. The more people go into debt peonage, the more the GDP goes up, therefor the better off they are! Perfect PHD in Economics logic. :D

This reminds me of this little nugget courtesy of Glenn Kessler of The Washington Post "fact checking" Bernie's flatly true statement that "Three people in this country own more wealth than the bottom half of America:"
Glenn Kessler wrote:
This snappy talking point is based on numbers that add up, but it’s also a question of comparing apples to oranges. Sanders is drawing on a 2017 report from the left-leaning Institute for Policy Studies, which said that three billionaires — Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos (who owns The Washington Post) and Warren Buffett — had total wealth of $248.5 billion, compared to $245 billion for the bottom 160 million of the United States. The wealth of the three men has gone up even more since then. But people in the bottom half have essentially no wealth, as debts cancel out whatever assets they might have. So the comparison is not especially meaningful. We once gave Sanders Three Pinocchios when he asserted that the six wealthiest people had more wealth than the half of the world’s population. That was an even more problematic comparison, and we said at the time it was better to focus on inequality within a country.

:lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:13 am 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/09/politics ... index.html

The House of Representatives is introducing articles of impeachment against Trump in the morning.
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Mellifleur
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 6:59 pm 
 

Of all the things to impeach Trump over... not the self dealing (which has probably saved him from another bankruptcy already) or the war crimes, or the crimes against humanity at our own border... But the democrats are mad that he temporarily stopped funding the war in Ukraine, which incidentally Trump had started the funding for after Obama refused to do so at the end of his term because the whole situation had already been bungled so badly after the CIA helped fascist militias overthrow the previous government. I mean, of course Trump *is* guilty of the things in the impeachment, but it blows my mind that it was Trump slowing the war machine a little bit that caused him to finally get impeached and not any of the other crimes of the past three years. I guess I like the impeachment on the grounds that it consumes some of the administration's attention, but it's not like it has totally stopped him from achieving his goals like getting a million fresh out of law school brainwashed ultra-conservatives into all the important judgeships or terrorizing immigrants or blowing up foreigners, and we all know he will 100% not be removed from office because he owns the senate. Instead of doing the impeachment, the democratic leadership could have spent all their time and energy opposing Trump's policies and mobilizing voters, but then that would be a Bernie move and becoming more Bernie-like is an even worse fate than living under the Trump regime. *sighs*

I predict the impeachment will end with a fizzle for the democrats like the Muller report and that the trial in the senate will mostly be centered on how Hunter Biden got paid millions of dollars.
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insanewayne253
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:53 pm 
 

The UN should've stepped in for the crimes against humanity at the border and then slapped the administration with major sanctions.

I like Bernie. The downside with Bernie is he's great with coastal cities and the youth vote, but the older voters who are still a good chunk of the Democrats don't want him and want someone a little more moderate. Nominate a moderate, you alienate the youth vote, nominate a true progressive, you alienate the older moderate wing. We need honestly a consensus candidate or we're going to end up in a contested convention. Me personally, I'm voting for whoever they nominate. If it's Biden, fine; he is polling the best at the moment. Let's see who he picks as a running mate to balance the ticket.

It still puzzles me that so many Republicans who hated Trump are pretty much towing his line and using his same faulty talking points. WTF do they have to accomplish? Are they THAT afraid of a MAGAt primary challenger?

One another note, Congress just agreed on that USMCA, and some Republicans in the Senate are pissed saying "it's too liberal." If the Senate doesn't like it, Trump may not like it either. Sounds like Dems are laying a trap to get Trump to veto his own bill; the Dems have something to run on then as opposed to just worrying about impeachment.

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Musick
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:46 pm 
 

Look, this is clearly a topic you are more passionate about than I am. My intent with the following short replies is not to be dismissive I just want to establish our mindsets before we go too far off the rails. My point was reducing the level of fraud is a good thing. There are a few hills I would die on but this is not one of them. Im 100% for moving it from the federal to the local level. Perhaps moving some percentage of the overall benefits towards a food bank model would make sense.

Unorthodox wrote:
- For one, the economy moves in cycles of expansions and recessions, so to say "these food stamps cuts come at a good time" is a half-baked idea. Those assistance programs are meant to be there regardless of how the economy is doing. It would be very hard to make more assistance programs during recession, and making them simply because of a recession would be just as foolish as cutting them because of an expansion.....Do you mean that the government should seek to constantly improve itself? In that case, how it improves itself is completely subjective and up to debate. I obviously dont see cutting 680,000 people from food stamps as improvement. It's not even making things significantly worse. It's generally just insignificant.

- .If you don't have the basic necessities for survival distributed to the population at large

- At the same time, there's so much money in the hands of rich people that they literally don't know what to do with it.

- This is why reallocation is so important.


Establishing mindset. We might never agree on certain topics and thats fine – its been a civil discussion and I think thats a good thing.

- It is absolutely up for discussion and one measure most people would agree upon is a reduction in the amount of money we give them. With so many jobs being created it would appear to me this is an ideal time to make those cuts.
- Distributed? I think basic necessities should be acquired.
- Who is anyone to judge what others do with their money? They have the right to do nothing with their money.
- There is too much reallocation. Infrastructure, police and firefighters Im OK with but, again, shouldnt this be on the local level?

Unorthodox wrote:
The polling data I posted is drawn out from millions of different sources, including fox news. Realclearpolitics has absolutely no agenda in this. Hate to say it, this sort of response comes across as an emotional deflection to facts that oppose your initial statement.


Not at all. When a news aggregate chooses to include sources listed as having a mixed rating due to failing fact checks isnt RCP guilty as well for failing to do their own fact checks?

PRE-EDIT - Sorry I screwed up with some of the quoting. Hope you get my point.
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:53 pm 
 

Quote:
the democrats are mad that he temporarily stopped funding the war in Ukraine

Quote:
it blows my mind that it was Trump slowing the war machine a little bit that caused him to finally get impeached

Quote:
the whole situation had already been bungled so badly after the CIA helped fascist militias overthrow the previous government.


Mischaracterization of the predicating offense, factually wrong history, and RT propaganda mainlined straight into the jugular. Another whopper of an addition to the evergreen exhibit populary known as "Trump Is Going To Be President Forever, Isn't He™ ."
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:59 pm 
 

I know, I know, Earthcubed. Russians hiding in the closet. Iranians hiding under the bed. It'll be ok.
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Musick
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:05 pm 
 

Sorry if replies appears dismissive.

droneriot wrote:
Then you should be against Trump and the likes.... so instead of paying $15 for your mobile service you suddenly pay $50, instead of paying $3 for your meal, you suddenly pay $8, instead of paying $300 for your apartment, you suddenly pay $750. With oversight removed, there will be no repercussions for those who break the law this way, which in practice defeats theoretical libertarianism and contrary to its theoretical purpose turns it into a big wealth redistribution programme worthy of Karl Marx in reverse.

How about if you wanna end artificial wealth redistribution, you'd start thinking about wanting to end it both ways?


Truth be told I am growing impatient with Trump. From a Red perspective, 3 years ago I had a choice between Trump or Clinton. Trump didnt become the President because of his “flaws”, he was elected President despite of them. Additionally, he wasnt elected to fit in with the political intellectual class. He was elected to break them.

You can switch providers, eat else where and/or find another apartment. I switched providers recently and my $35/mo bill became $8/mo.

droneriot wrote:
For me that's the thing. I'm not an anti-capitalist, I'm not against capitalism. I just believe that for capitalism to work, the rule of law would have to be fully applied. Not just to some brown people who mug old women or whatever what right wing people obsess so much about, but applied to EVERYONE, including all the super-rich who break the law in various ways every single day. I believe capitalism would actually work quite nicely and be quite beneficial if everybody followed the law and stopped hurting people to their own advantage and then paying off authorities to look the other way. That could be quite a decent society actually. But the "small government" ideal of libertarians where a highly criminal and destructive upper class can fuck everybody over a million times with complete impunity? Won't ever work. A corrupt system based entirely on crime will never work. It can't work. It's a disaster by its own definition.


Ill go out on a limb and make the assumption that we do agree on at lest one point - We need to reset the American political system because its corrupt and broken.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:07 pm 
 

Musick wrote:
Ill go out on a limb and make the assumption that we do agree on at lest one point - We need to reset the American political system because its corrupt and broken.

I think the entire political spectrum from furthest left anarchists to furthest right Nazis agrees on that one, and in every country on the planet, too.
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