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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 1085
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 12:55 am 
 

What redeems Trump?
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 1:19 am 
 

I'm getting a 404 error on mobile, I thought that was the joke until I realized burnroasted not only wasn't Burnyoursins but was in fact one of the duller posters here.

The Schumer letter Trump wrote felt like an Onion article written by an intern after taking a couple cricket bat whacks to the noggin. So de jure for the administration, not even noteworthy. No clue why he decided to share it.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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UtUmNo1
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:04 am 
 

Banned! Banned I say you mildly conservative fucking Nazis, you!

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burnroasted
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:00 am
Posts: 292
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:13 am 
 

Duller than a bunch of Sanders supporters? Impossible

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:09 pm 
 

-Trump personally responsible for the death of tens of thousands of Americans

Idiots: tHe SiLenT wAR rAgEs oN WHeN u AcCurAteLy rEeeeEEEEpOrt tHe NEwZ

-Sanders's utterly milequetoast proposals that exist in every other first world country being proven right on a daily basis in the face of a worsening pandemic

Idiots: Sanders and his supporters are duh REEEEEEEEal threat, not the syphilitic wad of cookie dough responsible for this disaster


Amazing. Keep at it boys, I don't even miss the theaters being closed anymore, this is endlessly more entertaining and hilarious.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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The Christian Bible
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:39 am
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:03 pm 
 

burnroasted wrote:
Duller than a bunch of Sanders supporters? Impossible



"duller ThAn a BuNcH oF sAnDeRs sUpPoRtErS???"


What do you even get out of posting stupid shit like this.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9948
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 5:06 pm 
 

Don't feed the trolls y'all

Razakel wrote:
"I'm a friendly down to earth guy and you're all cunts who'd get beat up if you ever stepped foot in my country."

Real insightful, man! Really gives us a good impression of "the other side" and encourages the good, civil discussion you're all about. Well done.

Can't make that shit up, lol.

[This post contains hidden content. Quote to reveal it.]
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3856
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:35 pm 
 

I understand that today our president once again decided to project empathy, stoic resolve, and a calming sense of crisis management by raging against a free press in between encouraging millions of people to take an untested drug and free associating about bridge construction.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:02 am 
 

So Spirit is one of those "I like Donald Trump okay, but I'd like him way more if he was more racist." Very cool.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Roktan
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 8:41 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 3:57 pm 
 

How the rich are dealing with Coronavirus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfIsuMmncm0

Really like this guy. I have to say, to every rich corporate owner who wants to put people back to work sooner than they should, needs to be lined up and executed. Hell, I'd say we should take a cue from George Carlin. Just shooting them is too nice for these motherfuckers. They should be fucking crucified or boiled in oil.

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insanewayne253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:04 am
Posts: 118
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:28 pm 
 

...about that Trump bump

Rasmussen (which oversamples Republicans) now has Trump underwater in approval.
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/trump_approval_index_history

There may be some cracks in that Teflon armor. Part is the Covid 19 pressers and how this was all rolled out, part of it is now going to be Economic Relief Law is rolling out as a disaster
https://politicalwire.com/2020/04/05/rollout-of-economic-relief-law-is-a-mess/

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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 3997
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:40 am 
 

It was just a matter of time before the official statement would be released, but Bernie is out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/08/poli ... index.html

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Trashy_Rambo
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 8:04 pm
Posts: 1534
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:27 pm 
 

4 more years of Trump it is! Fucking hell.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9948
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:29 pm 
 

RIP
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:23 pm
Posts: 149
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:31 pm 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
It was just a matter of time before the official statement would be released, but Bernie is out.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/08/poli ... index.html


Yippee, we get to choose between the Gray Groper or the Orange Groper.
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acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1592
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:34 pm 
 

Over/under on when the riots start?
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9622
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:42 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Over/under on when the riots start?


lol never. Literally nothing will make America fight back at this point. If another Boston Massacre happens everybody will just back down. My country is full of feckless wimps who wouldn't stand up to even the most incompetent fascist on the planet. RIP me.
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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:01 pm 
 

Trashy_Rambo wrote:
4 more years of Trump it is! Fucking hell.


Had Sanders run it would have been worse for the Democrats even if you happen to side with him. Sanders is divise, not just in general but particularilly in the democratic party. Had he run against Trump I think he would have been an exceptionally weak opponent unless the democratic party drastically changed. And I say this trying not to put any value into his politics. I just think he is to much on the left wing for the US political spectrum. And when you cause division (or is a symptom of division - whichever it is) in your party it is rarely a good thing for electoral success.

Obama could unite the party and make people in the middle come over. Sanders wouldnt even be able to make all the people in his party to vote for him much less the fringe voters.

That said, I do not have much knowledge on Biden. Perhaps he's a worse candidate. I'm just saying Sanders probably wouldnt have won against Trump because of the reasons listed above. What Bidens chances are, I don't know.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8731
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:01 pm 
 

Biden's going to get eaten alive by Trump. He's clearly suffering from some sort of diminished mental capacity, and it's been getting worse the longer the election race has gone on for. His entire campaign has been based around returning to the "normalcy" of the Obama years, with no intentions of actually fixing any of the root issues that got this country into a Trump presidency in the first place. He's outright said that the Covid pandemic hasn't changed his thoughts on Medicare for All (he's opposed to it), and he has this insane idea that he can reach across the aisle and appeal to Republican voters and politicians to follow his lead, which flies completely in the face of the Republican ethos of hating Democrats no matter what and obstructing anything and everything a Democrat wants to do.

Biden's an infinitely worse candidate than Bernie, and he will get his ass royally handed to him by the Hobgoblin in November (if an election even happens).
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Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 126
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:04 pm 
 

Well, more people actually went to vote for Biden. I get that it's a primary and not a presidential election, but if the young people who supposedly really love Sanders stayed home during the primaries, I'm not sure I would count on them to vote in November. Biden might be beige as a candidate, but I think he could bring over some older voters who voted for Trump or stayed home because they didn't trust Hillary. Also, Biden has name recognition beyond "that socialist Democrat".

Also, for the "diminished mental capacity crowd", well Trump clearly is diminished. The difference is that Biden starts from a solid base, Trump started from a shits-for-brains with no intellectual curiosity and a massive narcissistic disorder.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5141
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:30 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Biden's going to get eaten alive by Trump. He's clearly suffering from some sort of diminished mental capacity, and it's been getting worse the longer the election race has gone on for. His entire campaign has been based around returning to the "normalcy" of the Obama years, with no intentions of actually fixing any of the root issues that got this country into a Trump presidency in the first place. He's outright said that the Covid pandemic hasn't changed his thoughts on Medicare for All (he's opposed to it), and he has this insane idea that he can reach across the aisle and appeal to Republican voters and politicians to follow his lead, which flies completely in the face of the Republican ethos of hating Democrats no matter what and obstructing anything and everything a Democrat wants to do.

Biden's an infinitely worse candidate than Bernie, and he will get his ass royally handed to him by the Hobgoblin in November (if an election even happens).

I would second this. There is definitely something not right with Biden. To see Bernie drop out is just handing it over to Trump.
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Metal81
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:33 pm
Posts: 243
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:49 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
Well, more people actually went to vote for Biden. I get that it's a primary and not a presidential election, but if the young people who supposedly really love Sanders stayed home during the primaries, I'm not sure I would count on them to vote in November. Biden might be beige as a candidate, but I think he could bring over some older voters who voted for Drumpf or stayed home because they didn't trust Hillary. Also, Biden has name recognition beyond "that socialist Democrat".

Also, for the "diminished mental capacity crowd", well Drumpf clearly is diminished. The difference is that Biden starts from a solid base, Drumpf started from a shits-for-brains with no intellectual curiosity and a massive narcissistic disorder.


I really agree on that point about the young people not getting out and voting for Bernie. I feel like the consistent message from the social media Bernie folks is that we risk alienating tons of votes by pushing him out and rallying behind Biden. I'm not super excited about Joe, but he got a lot more votes. Bernie never really got the support of Black voters, and the dems NEED THAT VOTE to win here.

The reality is, this election feels like it now hinges on how this administration handles the COVID-19 fallout. I feel like there will be ample time for an after-action debrief this summer when things are marginally calmer. Then I think we'll have a clearer picture of where Trump v Biden stands.

For the record, I'm horrified at the lack of empathy and leadership on display right now. This orange monstrosity seems incapable of taking ownership of any part of this challenge, which is killing people.

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8731
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:04 pm 
 

As it pertains to "people actually voted for Biden", that's ignoring that the DNC and other establishment allies like CNN and MSNBC did everything they could to fight against Bernie despite the rampant enthusiasm his base had and still has for him and what he stands for. The one group that showed any enthusiasm for Biden was old people. When's the last time you saw someone under the age of 60 be a rampant, hardcore Biden guy?

When it comes to Biden's diminished mental capacity, just because Trump is also a senile old man doesn't mean that Biden is not a senile old man. He's had numerous old man moments on the campaign trail (my favorite being the time he said that poor kids can be just as intelligent as white kids), and he's been increasingly shouty and argumentative with anyone that dares question him or his line of thinking on a given subject (see: Telling a union worker in Michigan he was "full of shit" for asking about his gun record, or calling an Iowan a "damn liar" for pushing him on his son being in Ukraine, and then challenging the guy to a pushup contest for some insane reason). He will break the moment Trump does Trumpy things to him on the debate stage (if a debate even happens), and it'll serve to only embolden Trump's base and decrease hope for Biden even further.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1480
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:27 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
As it pertains to "people actually voted for Biden", that's ignoring that the DNC and other establishment allies like CNN and MSNBC did everything they could to fight against Bernie despite the rampant enthusiasm his base had and still has for him and what he stands for. The one group that showed any enthusiasm for Biden was old people. When's the last time you saw someone under the age of 60 be a rampant, hardcore Biden guy?


Isnt this just it though? People who support Sanders are so enthusiastic about him that they dont really see that not everyone else does. Sort of like how I described peoples hate for Trump making them think everyone else hated him as much as they did. The impression Ive gotten is that Sanders has a very vocal crowd and his ideas inspires a lot of younger people. But he hasnt ever been able to go beyond his own supporters. He does not attracts republicans, not even large parts of the democratic party.

I read an article recently describing the democratic partys biggest problem as it was split in two and neither part works to bridge the split. Sanders isnt a unifying candidate. He is a candidate that is a symprom of the split within the party. Sanders has cross-over appeal, not to Americans but, to western europeans where his policies are way more common anyway.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 9622
Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:49 pm 
 

Bernie has a very unique skill in galvanizing and winning over disaffected non-voters and "radical centrist" morons who tend to veer right purely because they hate the current establishment. I fucking hate the guy generally but Joe Rogan is a perfect example of this type of voter. I have a few old acquaintances whose politics don't really go beyond "the guys in power suck" who tend to side with conservatives constantly because they (accurately) peg the current establishment democrats as a bunch of out-of-touch phony rich guys who bend over backwards to continually fuck the little guy. They lean conservative because, even though they're objectively worse, they at least have a much better platform for spreading their ideas and can be insidiously convincing in their bullshit, whereas basically everybody can see right through the current dems' shit. Looking at Rogan's dumb ass, the minute Bernie got on his platform, he won over a ton of people who were never going to vote democrat in the first place, because for the first fucking time these people got to hear some actual left leaning ideas and realized they're not so bad. The mainstream platforms fought against him tooth and nail every step of the way and never gave him the fair coverage (not to mention the softball bullshit they lob at Biden et al) so they did absolutely fuck-nothing in terms of helping him grow, because he threatened their power structure, and they'd rather have Trump than Sanders because at least then they get to keep reaping the benefits of this fucked up broken system.

They made everybody fall in line behind the brainworm-addled moron because they're convinced he can win over the mythical moderate conservative that never shows up to vote blue, while strongarming the guy who absolutely could bring in the people who don't normally vote out of the race. And now when those disaffected folks don't show up they're gonna get blamed for not shutting the fuck up and staying in their place even though they party has made it absolutely clear that they have no intention of helping them whatsoever anyway. They had the path to victory plainly spelled out for them and then just set it on fire while preparing to blame the charred corpses for their inevitable loss. Absolutely fucking textbook manufactured consent that everybody on the left will be proven correct when it blows up in their faces.

I'll vote harm reduction downballot. I'm not fucking voting for Biden. Blame me if you want when Trump wins, I don't fucking care. I'm not gonna vote for the ass that shits on me and the people I care about ever so slightly less after they spend years blaming the clean ass for all the shit on me.
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Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 154
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:58 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
As it pertains to "people actually voted for Biden", that's ignoring that the DNC and other establishment allies like CNN and MSNBC did everything they could to fight against Bernie despite the rampant enthusiasm his base had and still has for him and what he stands for. The one group that showed any enthusiasm for Biden was old people. When's the last time you saw someone under the age of 60 be a rampant, hardcore Biden guy?

Biden scored big wins over Sanders with a whole lot of other demographics besides 'old people'. That has nothing to do with some kind of conspiracy by 'the establishment allies' (which really just seems like Trumpian 'fake news' rhetoric in another guise) to destroy Sanders and everything to do with the voters... not choosing Sanders. It's as simple as that. Not everybody was feeling the Bern. Moreover, the results of this primary season seem to indicate that Sanders' strong performance in 2016 was less because he himself connected with the working class whites that Clinton lost and more because those voters just didn't like Clinton. As soon as they had a moderate alternative to Sanders that wasn't Clinton, they went with that alternative, the result being that Biden mopped up with the same Midwest working class whites that represented a core part of Sanders' electability argument. You combine that with Biden crushing Sanders among black voters, among older voters, among suburban women, and you really don't need to rely on conspiracy theories about 'the establishment' to see why Biden won.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:18 pm 
 

lolwut. Biden won because the entire establishment lined up behind him and everyone under the sun either dropped out (including near frontrunners) and endorsed him or simply endorsed him. The only exception was Warren, who actually landed the killing blow on Bernie but I'll not get into that here.

Say what you will about Republicans, but Democrats fall in line just as easily as R's when the party says who to vote for.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 497
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:25 pm 
 

Image
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1685
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:45 pm 
 

I'm Ridin with Biden now folks, hopefully we can all set aside our "radical" ideas of medicare for all and free college to get Donnie and the ratboys out of the executive branch (not saying that lightly, I'm still behind these ideas). I was mildly "vote blue no matter who", often flirting with the BoB crew every now and then. But at this point, after this catastrophic failure of leadership during this pandemic, I'm 9000% vote blue no matter who. And at least it's not Pete Buttigieg, or Mike Bloomberg (even though the former might get a cabinet position). Could've been a whole hell of a lot worse.

And for those folks who think Trump will "eat Biden's lunch", probably not. This isn't 2016, Trump has a 4 year track record of dismal failures, with his worst blunders also being his most recent. They're fresh in everyone's head. Anyone with half a brain will be able to see the complete incompetence of his "administration" (in quotes because it's not an administration as much as it's a political consulting gig with a rotating door).
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henkkjelle
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 6:00 pm 
 

The establishment lined up behind him and that played a huge role, but as far as I know Biden has also polled highest of all the dem candidates since he joined the race, and in the end simply got far more people to go out and vote. Like, what's the dnc supposed to do? Back the candicate that's polling worse with key demographics?

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Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 497
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:06 pm 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
I'm Ridin with Biden now folks, hopefully we can all set aside our "radical" ideas of medicare for all and free college to get Donnie and the ratboys out of the executive branch (not saying that lightly, I'm still behind these ideas). I was mildly "vote blue no matter who", often flirting with the BoB crew every now and then. But at this point, after this catastrophic failure of leadership during this pandemic, I'm 9000% vote blue no matter who. And at least it's not Pete Buttigieg, or Mike Bloomberg (even though the former might get a cabinet position). Could've been a whole hell of a lot worse.

And for those folks who think Trump will "eat Biden's lunch", probably not. This isn't 2016, Trump has a 4 year track record of dismal failures, with his worst blunders also being his most recent. They're fresh in everyone's head. Anyone with half a brain will be able to see the complete incompetence of his "administration" (in quotes because it's not an administration as much as it's a political consulting gig with a rotating door).


Trump is going to get absolutely unlimited media coverage for what is likely to be most of the remaining campaign season. If Joe remains as fucking invisible as he has the last month, it's gonna be tough no matter how royally the Orange Goblin screws the pooch.
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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3856
Location: eccaira nare epë Anar
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:25 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
As it pertains to "people actually voted for Biden", that's ignoring that the DNC and other establishment allies like CNN and MSNBC did everything they could to fight against Bernie


The DNC specifically changed superdelegate rules to accommodate Sanders. They allowed 20 mostly-moderate candidates to run at once, knowingly ensuring spoiler effects that would favor Sanders. They did not require candidates to be longstanding party members, requiring instead a mere attestation statement essentially stating that you will work with the party in the future---again, favorable to Sanders, especially since he ignored that rule and they still let him run as a Dem anyway (he has already registered for the 2024 Senate race as an independent, not a Dem; they knew he intends to be combative towards the DNC and let him run in their primaries anyway).

Among other things, the DNC could have: increased the voting power of superdelegates, set a low limit on how many people can run at once, require candidates to be registered Dems at every level (e.g., he would have to officially join Dems in the Senate rather than just caucus with them, and he would have had to file the corresponding election paperwork), require that they have XX years history of Dem registration. For that matter, there was no requirement to have Dems run in a primary in the first place---there is no constitutional right to vote or run for office in a primary, just in the general. There were no primaries before the 1900's; if they were extremely terrified of Sanders, the DNC could have just ignored primaries entirely and handpicked someone else. That's more or less how parties used to do it.

And most of his opponents gave him the kid gloves treatment where it mattered, only going after him in the debates and keeping the negative ads fairly light. Their voter models required a certain % of Sanders supporters to turn out for them in November. It's not a coincidence that Bloomberg generally went hardest after Sanders: he never expected BernieBros to turn out for him in November (he's a Republican after all) and he campaigned accordingly.

If this---bending DNC rules to his favor, keeping the attack ads light, etc.---constitutes "everything they could to fight against Bernie" in the minds of Sanders supporters, then it is probably best for their health that he lost now. They would not have been able to handle what would have happened over the course of the general election, to say nothing of how it likely would have ended in the Electoral College. It would have been soul crushing.

****

Sanders supporters have a tendency to think that he terrifies the establishment because they are worried about losing influence or higher taxes or the Revolution coming for them or whatever. It's really much simpler than that: they are a political party whose goal is to get and attain elected offices, and they were terrified Sanders was going to cost the party---down the ballot, not just the White House. And they had decades of both experience and research to go along with their own internal focus groups to back them up. I mean, I wouldn't even know where to start with this---it spans disciplines ranging from polisci to psychology to history to advertising to economics (though obviously this last one is now less favorable to Trump than it was just a few months ago). That is why the DNC was terrified of him; they weren't scared of a revolution they knew wasn't going to happen. They weren't scared that masses of people too lazy to vote were suddenly going to materialize and throw out the elites at the ballot box.

The reasons Sanders lost are much more straightforward than DNC shenanigans or media bias, and they come back to the points I made a few weeks ago. Sanders lost because he placed all his bets on a) the demographic least likely to vote at all, young people; and b) people who rarely vote, which is a separate demographic but still not especially likely to turn out for Sanders. He regularly alienated people outside those two demographics and gave them few reasons to believe he would welcome them. He chose an extraordinarily narrow path to victory, and he chose wrongly. All this stuff about the establishment forcing candidates to back Biden all of a sudden and turn it into a 2-person race---it was always going to turn into a 2-person race. And November will be a 2-person race as well, with maybe 1 spoiler candidate. The most salient fact here is that Sanders can't win without half a dozen candidates splitting the vote to his right. The establishment didn't need to do shit to doom Sanders.

****

When the incumbent is on the ballot, then your campaign is a referendum on the incumbent. That is always how it works. It isn't about redefining your political party or burning down the establishment or the revolution or any of that; that comes later, when there is no incumbent. This is even more true in a time like this. When the country is burning under the stewardship of the incumbent, you run against the incumbent, not yourself.

Biden was not my candidate for a number of reasons (though it was a mute point, given when my primary happens). I don't think he will be a good nominee, for a number of (mostly other) reasons. But he is the candidate we have now, and he got about 3 million more votes than the runner-up, and in some states he won by more than 30% margins. There are a lot of Dems who voted for him and I think it's fair to say he would have gotten even more if this had been a 2-person race from the start. He is who we have to support in November now, and if Trump wins, then anyone who says differently today will find it much harder in 10 years to convince themselves that staying home or voting Stein in 2020 was the moral, prudent, progressive, patriotic, left-wing, or humanist thing to do. Because today, in 2020, you can't say you didn't know what it would be like. You've lived under Trump for almost four years now, unlike when you first made excuses to yourself in 2016. You know, and historians will know that you knew.
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Musick
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:08 pm 
 

Token R chiming in here. I am sure some will dismiss my words based on past posts, and I dont foresee the day I am in alignment with Sanders policies, but there is something fundamentally wrong with a Biden v Trump election. Sanders should NOT have dropped out.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:35 pm 
 

This is all profoundly more simple than some of the bloviating here (earth^3 jesus christ man) the Sanders strategy was about gaining early momentum and winning most Super Tuesday states, and then riding that momentum throughout the rest of the primary. The high number of candidates who should've been on the ballot meant that Bernie's small but solid base would ensure a victory.

Then the establishment did exactly what the GOP failed to do to block Trump: Obama went behind the scenes and whipped near frontrunners into line in an entirely unprecedented move, and got everyone and his sister's brother's goat to endorse the guy who had only won 1 primary, and lost catastrophically in two. Warren stayed in to land the killing blow and ensure Biden won Mass and a few other states he was polling like shit in less than a week before.


I'm so sorry that the Bernie campaign was unable to see an establishment line-up on the eve of Super Tuesday that had never before happened in American Democratic politics, but, hey guys, enjoy Four More Years for your troubles!
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Eradicatedseraphim
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 5:42 am
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:38 pm 
 

Really not seeing any reason to vote for a potential rapist who would freeze social security, voted for the Iraq war, and was apart of an administration that bailed out Wall Street. It’s like they went with the least appeasing candidate humanly possible, I’m honestly hoping he gets steamrolled come November. The DNC clearly hasn’t learned from 2016

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Nothingface
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:34 pm
Posts: 124
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:16 pm 
 

Eradicatedseraphim wrote:
I’m honestly hoping he gets steamrolled come November.

They should make a pay-per-view event out of the whole thing. It would be worth every penny to see that dementia-addled old codger short-circuit when Trump memes on him during the debates.

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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:19 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
Post

Agreed on (almost) all counts. Unfortunately, there will always be a segment of Sanders supporters (not a majority, but they're there) who simply don't want to believe that Sanders lost because the majority of voters wanted somebody else.

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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:20 pm 
 

I'm voting for Biden because of Stephen Miller. Call me a cuck or establishment sleeper agent (have already been called as such online), but the shit Stephen Miller has been doing with non-white immigration (primarily in regards to legal immigration, surprisingly enough) is far, far worse than anything Biden has done and likely will ever do. That includes his almost unrivaled-in-its-awfulness voting record for a Democrat and even his possible (likely?) rape. Yes, I am serious.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5155
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:23 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
Earthcubed wrote:
Post

Agreed on (almost) all counts. Unfortunately, there will always be a segment of Sanders supporters (not a majority, but they're there) who simply don't want to believe that Sanders lost because the majority of voters wanted somebody else.

The majority of voters wanted who the majority of Democrats with power lined up behind and told them to vote for. I'm sorry if you find a flatly true statement inconvenient.

If you can come up for another explanation of why both Iowa and New Hampshire completely rejected the "winner," I'd love to hear it.
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Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Mellifleur
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Posts: 423
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:54 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I'm voting for Biden because of Stephen Miller. Call me a cuck or establishment sleeper agent (have already been called as such online), but the shit Stephen Miller has been doing with non-white immigration (primarily in regards to legal immigration, surprisingly enough) is far, far worse than anything Biden has done and likely will ever do.

Don't be so sure! There were so many horrifying things W did that Obama was supposed to undo... and he didn't. He never did. He never intended to. Biden is to the right of Obama and even more committed to carrying out far right policies. His career bears this out, everything he says and everything he does bears this out. Consider these truths that Biden-apologists don't want you to consider: Biden is not going to reverse any of the horrifying changes Trump has made, he's not going to return things to how they were, and in fact he is going to double down on all Trump policies and make them permanent. Just like Obama did. A decades long conservative lockdown on the supreme court has already happened and the opportunity to stop this has already passed. Trump's federal judges aren't going anywhere, and Biden isn't going to make any effort to fill new seats with any urgency. Trump will fill as many as he can before his time is up and a president Biden isn't going to do anything to mitigate the damage they cause. Biden won't fight for women's or trans peoples' rights anymore than his fellow rapist Trump did. Biden won't stop our wars anymore than Trump did. Biden won't fix healthcare, the tax system, mass incarceration, mass surveilance, deportations, or anything else! Anything he doesn't just leave on cruise control he will actively try to push to the right, like Obama did, to appease the Republicans (who of course will tell him to fuck himself anyway just like they did with Obama). There is a 100% chance president Biden would increase deportations! He's gonna have to hire even more neo nazi militiamen to fill ICE ranks to keep up with the work. Again, same as Obama! All history, evidence, facts, logic, reason, and the divinations of sufi mystics indicates that these things are indisputable truths!

I guess cast a vote and hope for the best, though. :-P Not trying to be a downer, but either Trump wins and continues Trump policies, or Biden wins and continues Trump policies. Vote however you need to to be able to sleep at night, but we're fucked. :D
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