Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Five_Nails
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
Posts: 622
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:45 am 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
Five_Nails wrote:
Have you heard the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf? Yeah, I'm one of those morons who got complacent. The U.S. got complacent. Trump got complacent. Now, it's all Trump's fault because the U.S. got complacent. Major news companies got the story, we get it. Trump is Hitler, good on you Mr. Canada.


Yeah, you're right- you are a moron for buying into anecdotal experience to make judgments about something that had readily available data to counter those judgments. So am I, to a large degree. So is the US. Maybe the one thing we can all do now is stop relying on our own personal experiences to make sense of the natural world because it is completely meaningless in comparison to data and scientific research.

Trump complacency isn't his problem, he's just a fucking moron. Fredo is our president, and he should be running strip clubs, not the executive branch. This isn't the time for a president that postulates that the flu vaccine would somehow effect the Coronavirus, who had a pandemic playbook readily available for him but didn't even bother taking a look at it. Who fucking peddles pseudo-science as a cure for the virus, and lays some fucking 5 minute PCR invention out that can only handle a single test at a time like he's fucking Thomas Edison with the fuckin' cure all.

Pretty sure if this guy was president during Ebola that Ebola wouldn't have been isolated to only Western Africa. Maybe it wouldn't have been as bad as corona, but I doubt it would've been squashed as well as it did.


It used to be that while the major news companies were "overblowing" a situation to people in the U.S. (which they love to do), thousands of cattle were being burned, people were being quarantined, rapid response groups were containing the contagion, and nothing ever changed for the US.

This thing wasn't hoof and mouth, it wasn't swine flu, it wasn't bird flu, it wasn't Ebola, it wasn't the earlier SARS, it wasn't EEE, it was simply the one the got away from even the first dozen countries that it came to. Sorry I admitted my mistake, please keep calling me retarded while still not realizing that I'm not the next White House Press Secretary.

Did you just say Fredo. Don't you realize that's a racial slur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvwyZBla3AA

It's insane that Trump keeps harping on quinine as though it will fix the virus, especially when the doctor right next to him says it won't fix it.

Still, let's look at the guy who did preside when Ebola happened. Maybe Obama could have done better with Corona, we won't know but he could have at least put a more Presidential face on this debacle, which he was good at doing without really fixing anything. I doubt he would have shored things up any more though without people calling 'dictator' but at least someone could say, 'hey that's a respectable looking man in office and by the way he's black so I don't seem racist despite my only reason for voting for him was because he's black so I don't seem racist'. I watched him debate McCain on a projector in a college lecture hall. Obama said he wouldn't raise taxes, instead he would raise revenue for the Internal Revenue Service. The dude said he'd raise taxes and the lecture hall clapped at the screen.

I guarantee if that guy was in office right now plenty of talking heads would be looking at things differently and talking about the "difficulties of getting things done in this situation" rather than harping on the douche in a suit while much of it wouldn't be any different.

The economic crisis resulting from this will be enough to wreck any President, no matter what party. Then again, if Obama's "deal" when it came to the banking industry during the financial crisis can be measured, then we would have a ball-less government even more indebted to the hyper-rich as opposed to a now ball-less government bought and run by that meager group of the super-rich.

Glad to have touched your nerve buddy, thanks for calling me a moron. I still don't think the last President would have done any better. How about we reach a little further back and try to discuss how other Presidents would have presided over this situation?

Best part is: I voted for Obama in 2008 just to cancel out my dad's even more insane ranting.

Voted for Ron Paul in 2012 because the Reps fucked him over.

Voted Trump 2016 because I wasn't a fan of it all. (My mom caught a glimpse of the ballot and told me she was proud of me when I took her out to breakfast :P Saddest way to make a family member proud.)

I'm voting Bernie 2020 just to balance my ticket again.

Go for balance in your own way. For me it was going from Dem to (what became) independent to Rep then to Dem again. So far at least I'm 2/3 for wins. I'll end up 1/2 after this election but at least I'll start on a new balance sheet.

These people don't care about you. They never will. Voting for your interests isn't selfish when you realize that these fuckers, on a bipartisan scale, sold off their stock before telling us everything was going to be fine before the market tanked.

Please keep telling me it was all Republicans who fucked the country over. There couldn't possibly be a way for the only two sides who have done so well to quash any other group from finding a few seats in government from screwing everyone and better positioning themselves to make some money from a tragedy. Only one of those sides could have sounded the alarm I guess.

This is a country that would rather put up a stone covered in the names of corpses than keep its people alive.

This may as well be on CNN and Fox today.
_________________
I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you - Nobody - too?
-Emily Dickinson

Top
 Profile  
Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1695
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:08 am 
 

Five_Nails wrote:
Glad to have touched your nerve buddy, thanks for calling me a moron.


Wouldn't call you anything you didn't call yourself ;)
_________________
Last.fm

Top
 Profile  
darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:27 am 
 

Biden announces sweeping student loan forgiveness program

Not the absolute worst plan anyone has put forward...
_________________
ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

Top
 Profile  
Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9951
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:39 pm 
 

Bernie Sanders endorsed Biden. He's smarter than his dumbshit internet cultists and their purity tests, that's for sure. He knows what's at stake.

henkkjelle wrote:
You guys are either delusional if you think four years of Biden won't be a improvement on the Trump administration or you just don't care about the consequences that are staring you right in the face. Vote Biden holy shit please. Yes your system is dogshit and so is Biden and yes it should be different. Keep fighting for change like Bernie has done with the movement he created while also trying to keep your country from disintegrating even further. Or just go completely mask off and become balls to the wall accelerationists. Maybe you're already there. I hope not.

Clearly, they are. Masks are off at this point.

SCOTUS doesn't matter, COVID-19 doesn't matter, climate change doesn't matter, Muslim bans don't matter, transgender discrimination doesn't matter, abortion doesn't matter, education doesn't matter, minimum wage doesn't matter, Puerto Rico doesn't matter, literal white supremacists in the White House doesn't matter, being the laughing stock of the civilized world doesn't matter.

But at least they have ~principles~.

darkeningday wrote:
...didn't white women overwhelmingly vote for Trump in 2016?

53% is the commonly repeated figure, which isn't "overwhelmingly", though it is disappointingly high. White men were, of course, far worse, but no one ever talks about that for some reason.

darkeningday wrote:
Biden announces sweeping student loan forgiveness program

Not the absolute worst plan anyone has put forward...

Both both sides are bad/the same and it's soooo difficult to choose mah gawd

You people deserve Trump.

I just pray our borders are still closed when that happens, so that at least we don't get too big of a spillover of American stupidity.
_________________
Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:49 pm 
 

I'm going to remind you of your tantrum should Biden win and the systemic issues that have existed prior to our births continue on.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1695
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:16 am 
 

I really liked last night's Last Week Tonight, where John Oliver sums up how coronavirus has simply put a giant magnifying glass to many of those underlying systemic issues. I think that Bernie also realistically had close to no chance to fix these problems as a whole, because they're far from fixable for any one president in a 4-8 year time-span. It takes congress and supreme court justices as well, which is a million times harder problem to fix. The thing the president does, overwhelmingly, is act as a voice and large governmental force for those people in the country on the bell-curve of political thought (theoretically, because this also gets sort of minimized by the electoral college). If Bernie was the president, it would've meant that a lot of people were generally moving more left than they were, say, 8 years ago (to be clear, I think democrats are more left leaning than they were 8 years ago, but they sacrifice fighting for what they believe in with delusional pragmatism that is the result of over-analyzing and paranoia). That didn't materialize this election, but I do think the ramifications of this virus will inevitably lead people more to the left.
_________________
Last.fm

Top
 Profile  
Xlxlx
Argentinian Asado Supremacy

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 8068
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:19 am 
 

While I agree with the fact that damage control is the best the American people can hope for right now, one can't help but wonder about the future of a society where it always comes down to choosing the "lesser" evil.

Because "lesser" evils tend to pave the way for, somewhat paradoxically, bigger "lesser" evils.

As in, Biden is undeniably worse than Obama (who had a not insignificant host of issues himself). I very much doubt that the next Dem candidate will be better than Biden.

And so on.
_________________
droneriot wrote:
The instruments used are what you would expect from the little metal people: guitaloos, bassnaps, drumdrums, and voclatrons. The best things about the guitaloos are obviously the riffraffs.

Top
 Profile  
darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:33 am 
 

Internet leftists have no influence on American electoral politics one way or another. Whether you see Bernie "cultists" refuse to vote for Biden or not (and it must be some cult if they refuse to vote for the guy BERNIE ENDORSED lol) it has no impact on the greater electoral picture, very few Berners even live in swing areas.

Can we instead talk about how the DNC were willing to throw the 2020 election by propping up a dementia addled alleged rapist where the stakes couldn't be higher, all to prevent Sanders from winning?

If Biden loses, it's the on the DNC and Obama for whipping endorsements. Sanders tried to save you, but these people decided Four More Years mattered more than winning an election.

Something to think about.
_________________
ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8741
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:41 am 
 

That conundrum of constantly having to choose the "lesser" evil leading to bigger, worse evils can be traced right back to the shifting of the center in America over the last 45 years. What is the center for pretty much every other Western country in the world is the US's right wing, the "left wing" here is the center right elsewhere, and our far rightists here are outright fascists by every appreciable measurement and point of comparison. Carter was a shift right from Johnson, Clinton was a shift right from Carter, Obama shifted more right from Clinton, and Biden's an even bigger shift right from Obama. When progressives deride mainstream Democrats as "centrists", we're really calling them center-rightists, which they obviously are when you look at their general positions and voting records. There's been somewhat of a shift back left since 2016, entirely thanks to the rise of Bernie and the new young people he brought into politics, and this shift left has been something the DNC has been actively fighting the entire time. The thing is, when you look at polling data, people generally do want the kinds of things Bernie trumpeted; The primary issue is that the DNC has no real intentions of incorporating those social programs into the party platform, and the Democratic Party is so universally viewed as feckless wimps that they have no confidence in the party to do anything correct, especially after the debacle that was the last Presidential election.

I ultimately think that if Trump wins, and if we still have a functioning democracy by 2024, then a combination of Trump's second term and the havoc the pandemic has and will continue to wreak on every aspect of American life will finally allow a real progressive, left wing movement to overcome the party's maneuvering and take a real hold of power in this country. I don't think that that movement will be able to fester and form properly with a Biden presidency, just like it would not have festered and formed under a Hillary presidency. If Hillary had won in 2016, then the progressive anger at the DNC for screwing Bernie out of the nomination and the fallout of Trump's win would not have happened, which would not have led to the Blue Wave in 2018 that flipped the House back blue and helped elect younger, more progressive candidates to both open and Republican seats, as well as hold every Democratic incumbent governor and pick up seven more. If we're to ignore Biden as a lost cause, the most important thing to do in the election in November (should it happen) is to hold the House, flip the Senate, and just see what happens with the presidency.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

Top
 Profile  
darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:09 am 
 

Yep, a blue House and Senate with a President Trump would be objectively better than a red House and/or Senate with Biden, and possibly even better than all three being blue. Vote Democrat all the way down the ballot ffs, but when it comes to the President, as long as you don't vote for Trump you're good in my book.

My biggest concern is that Trump will pick up a sizable chunk of the black vote once he correctly points out the atrocities of Biden's crime bill and the way he intentionally completely fucked over Anita Hill. Old blacks may have voted for Biden in the primary, but once Trump airs out Biden's dirty laundry--which he 1000% will--all bets are off on them turning out in droves to vote for him again.

I fucking hope he picks Stacy for VP, but I'm starting to think he's gonna announce he'll put Kamala on the Supreme Court and run with Klobuchar as his VP.

I will 100% vote for Biden if he picks Stacy btw, and you can hold me to that.
_________________
ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

Top
 Profile  
insanewayne253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:04 am
Posts: 118
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:56 am 
 

Blacks hate Trump worse, they’re turning out in droves for Biden. I don’t see much ticket splitting in a presidential election. People are in one camp or another.

My thoughts are either Stacy or Warren as his VP pick; a reach out to the progressive vote Klobuchar not so much. Only thing Klobuchar would bring would be to shore up MN, which is relatively safe as long as he campaigns there unlike Hillary who didn’t campaign in the rust belt until it was too late

Harris for AG or Supreme Court. Gives CA an open slot to put a Berniecrat in the Senate; now to get rid of Feinstein

Schumer I see retiring soon, a good chance for AOC to step up.

Top
 Profile  
Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1695
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:04 am 
 

AOC as senate leader for the dems would be awesome, one can only hope :)
_________________
Last.fm

Top
 Profile  
darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:34 am 
 

insanewayne253 wrote:
Blacks hate Trump worse, they’re turning out in droves for Biden. I don’t see much ticket splitting in a presidential election. People are in one camp or another.

That's true now, but what happens when a Republican PAC cleverly named something like "Americans United Against Evil" run an ad correctly pointing out that every black person in the country is within 3 degrees of separation from someone whose life was destroyed by Joe Biden's horrific bills?

Remember that Trump's aim isn't to get people to vote for him, it's to demotivate people from voting at all. And he now has the platform to push that even further.


All I'm saying is that when Joe Biden gets wiped in November, which he almost certainly will, don't blame Bernie and ESPECIALLY don't blame his supporters, many of whom are morally opposed to vote for anyone with a rape allegation and the architect of a crime bill which is far, far worse than anything Trump has done... so far, at least.
_________________
ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

Top
 Profile  
insanewayne253
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:04 am
Posts: 118
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:59 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
insanewayne253 wrote:
Blacks hate Trump worse, they’re turning out in droves for Biden. I don’t see much ticket splitting in a presidential election. People are in one camp or another.

That's true now, but what happens when a Republican PAC cleverly named something like "Americans United Against Evil" run an ad correctly pointing out that every black person in the country is within 3 degrees of separation from someone whose life was destroyed by Joe Biden's horrific bills?

Remember that Trump's aim isn't to get people to vote for him, it's to demotivate people from voting at all. And he now has the platform to push that even further.


All I'm saying is that when Joe Biden gets wiped in November, which he almost certainly will, don't blame Bernie and ESPECIALLY don't blame his supporters, many of whom are morally opposed to vote for anyone with a rape allegation and the architect of a crime bill which is far, far worse than anything Trump has done... so far, at least.


1. Republicans have been reaching for that shit in order to pander to the black vote. They’re motivated to get him out. 90% of blacks think Trump is a flat out racist.

2. ...yeah suppression really worked well in Wisconsin, the liberal Supreme Court justice best the conservative. Talk about a possible canary in the coal mine.

3. https://medium.com/@eddiekrassenstein/evidence-casts-doubt-on-tara-reades-sexual-assault-allegations-of-joe-biden-e4cb3ee38460
Reade seems super believable..../sarcasm

Top
 Profile  
darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5159
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:09 am 
 

...are you seriously posting an article from a Krassenstein brother? Seriously?
_________________
ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:40 am 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
I'm going to remind you of your tantrum should Biden win and the systemic issues that have existed prior to our births continue on.


No one expects Biden to suddenly turn the US into a utopia, he will just put the brakes on the more regressive aspects of Trump's absolute fuckery. If Trump wins, whoever gets the Dem nom in 2024 will have an even bigger burden. And then what, if the Dem is not progressive enough, moderate and leftist Dems will keep bickering and we end up with Donald Fucking Junior? Fuck that shit.

Morrigan wrote:
53% is the commonly repeated figure, which isn't "overwhelmingly", though it is disappointingly high. White men were, of course, far worse, but no one ever talks about that for some reason.


I think it's because Trump being such a raging sexist, people expected women to vote against him in greater numbers; also, his opponent was a white woman as well. I don't think anyone held hopes that white men voted majorly against Trump.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:42 am 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:
I'm going to remind you of your tantrum should Biden win and the systemic issues that have existed prior to our births continue on.


No one expects Biden to suddenly turn the US into a utopia, he will just put the brakes on the more regressive aspects of Trump's absolute fuckery. If Trump wins, whoever gets the Dem nom in 2024 will have an even bigger burden. And then what, if the Dem is not progressive enough, moderate and leftist Dems will keep bickering and we end up with Donald Fucking Junior? Fuck that shit.

He's going to pump the brakes and let the next asshole jam it even further right, just like Carter, Clinton, and Obama did, because DEMOCRATS - not progressives, not liberals, not leftists - don't give a fuck. They'll pass legislation that is the right thing to do but can still be challenged on a state level (see: same-sex marriage, Obamacare) while allowing corporate interests to continue being a priority. This isn't a case of purity tests or whatever the current neoliberal talking point is, it's a case of actually following through on your word and serving the fucking public interest.

Let's say you're hungry and the pantry is bare. There are only two restaurants in town, one with a history of health code violations and rude waitstaff and exorbitant prices, and another with only moderately better quality food and staff but those same high prices. Two towns over, though, is a place with better food, better service, and better prices, but it's a little bit longer of a drive. Where do you go?

If you're an American, apparently, you throw your hands up and go to the only slightly less awful place, all while chastising people who travel a couple towns over and want to bring that quality of service home. Is it more pragmatic to just walk down the lane and get a burger with some spit in it because you're hungry now? I guess. Is it a better long-term solution to actively seek out better options and pressure the local shops to adapt? Yeah.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:40 am 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Curious_dead wrote:
acid_bukkake wrote:
I'm going to remind you of your tantrum should Biden win and the systemic issues that have existed prior to our births continue on.


No one expects Biden to suddenly turn the US into a utopia, he will just put the brakes on the more regressive aspects of Trump's absolute fuckery. If Trump wins, whoever gets the Dem nom in 2024 will have an even bigger burden. And then what, if the Dem is not progressive enough, moderate and leftist Dems will keep bickering and we end up with Donald Fucking Junior? Fuck that shit.

He's going to pump the brakes and let the next asshole jam it even further right, just like Carter, Clinton, and Obama did, because DEMOCRATS - not progressives, not liberals, not leftists - don't give a fuck. They'll pass legislation that is the right thing to do but can still be challenged on a state level (see: same-sex marriage, Obamacare) while allowing corporate interests to continue being a priority. This isn't a case of purity tests or whatever the current neoliberal talking point is, it's a case of actually following through on your word and serving the fucking public interest.

Let's say you're hungry and the pantry is bare. There are only two restaurants in town, one with a history of health code violations and rude waitstaff and exorbitant prices, and another with only moderately better quality food and staff but those same high prices. Two towns over, though, is a place with better food, better service, and better prices, but it's a little bit longer of a drive. Where do you go?

If you're an American, apparently, you throw your hands up and go to the only slightly less awful place, all while chastising people who travel a couple towns over and want to bring that quality of service home. Is it more pragmatic to just walk down the lane and get a burger with some spit in it because you're hungry now? I guess. Is it a better long-term solution to actively seek out better options and pressure the local shops to adapt? Yeah.


I get it. You want someone who's going to actually going to improve things, rather than let things stir (and maybe, maybe improve a few things but only incrementally).

But you're going to end up with EITHER Biden (the "letting things stir"-er) or Trump (catastrophic ratfucker). That's just a fact.

Why you wouldn't do everything to prevent the catastrophic ratfucker from having a go for four more years eludes me. You can absolutely look for a better candidate to replace Biden when he's president, doing less damage than Trump.

Because, and I know this is seemingly so fucking hard to grasp to you Never-Bidens, THERE IS NO FUCKING GUARANTEE THAT AFTER TRUMP you're going to have suddenly a better candidate than Biden! So what then if in 2024 people choose another beige candidate in the primaries? Let Trump Junior or whichever other cosmic abomination the GOP can come up with (hint: it's not going to be a moderate) and hope that the DNC FINALLY learns its lesson by 2028?

Don't forget the liberal judges on the SCOTUS are all aging. It's absolutely possible that Trump gets to replace as many as FOUR liberal judges. We're talking now 30-40 years of extremely conservative judges that will ABSOLUTELY FUCK with any reform that an imaginary, potential, eventual "maybe better than Biden" candidate could do. EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget the federal judges, not just the SCOTUS.

Don't forget that the GOP is also damaging your democracy. Less voting places, preventing absentee ballots/mail-in voting, removing powers from the new governors, implementing IDs (and then making these IDs harder), gerrymandering, and let's not forget the absolute disinformation. If you don't vote for a Biden NOW, even if he's not what you want, it might just mean it's going to be even harder to have a Democrat president next election cycle.

EDIT: And if you want corrupt assholes of the GOP to face the consequences, you better vote them out NOW. If you don't, these aging assholes are going to retire and go live elsewhere with the fruits of their corruption or die with a smile on their faces, having fucked generations of Americans (and even people outside of America) because some self-righteous Demos didn't like Biden's smell enough to get their asses to the voting booth.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:44 am 
 

I agree on voting Dem down the ballot but intentionally undermining their moderate presidential candidates. The only way I see to move up and out of this neolib shit, short of armed revolution, is to sow distrust and disillusionment in Democratic voters, weakening their faith in the DNC's ability to represent their values, while quietly establishing a security net in the legislature that performs damage control against a Republican president. A vote for Biden is a motion to keep your head down and not make a racket - which is the last thing the marginalized identities suffering under a Trump admin need right now. Call it what you will, but things need to get shaken up a bit.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:01 am 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
I agree on voting Dem down the ballot but intentionally undermining their moderate presidential candidates. The only way I see to move up and out of this neolib shit, short of armed revolution, is to sow distrust and disillusionment in Democratic voters, weakening their faith in the DNC's ability to represent their values, while quietly establishing a security net in the legislature that performs damage control against a Republican president. A vote for Biden is a motion to keep your head down and not make a racket - which is the last thing the marginalized identities suffering under a Trump admin need right now. Call it what you will, but things need to get shaken up a bit.


No, the last thing they (and the world) need is 4 more years under Trump. And sowing trust and disillusionment into Democratic voters is EXACTLY the best way for them to stay home. Then you lose the presidency, you don't get the Senate, fuck, maybe you lose the House.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:11 am 
 

Well, I was referring to the disruption of the Democratic Party post-2020. Imagine a second Trump term but he's rendered mostly harmless because the Senate and House stamp out anything he brings up; meanwhile everyone who voted for Biden is pissed and considers either voting for a third party or lumping themselves into the Republican Party and thereby diversifying its ideas. That would be ideal, in my opinion.

I feel like there is this prevalent idea that Trump is a one-time monstrosity, an aberration, rather than a natural end result of the broken system we're engaging in. It's not like Trump-type candidates will go away once you elect some "both sides" moderate Democrat who is halfway between Bill Clinton and George Bush. Resetting the clock back to moderates will get us back to Trump again and again. At this point, you have to lean into the blister until it pops.

Top
 Profile  
Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:13 am 
 

Back when the primary was competitive all the Sanders fans here were unequivocal that progressives would turn out if Biden won, that in fact the real threat was moderates refusing to vote for Sanders. Now that Biden's actually won, all of a sudden, he's no different from Trump and in fact progressives have decided to undermine him as a deliberate strategy.

And then y'all wonder why the party isn't crazy about bringing progressives into the fold.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:19 am 
 

Progressives reluctantly agreeing to vote for Biden - and the primary being competitive - was before the Democrats openly rigged the primary to prop up Biden's corpse. That changed everything.

Top
 Profile  
Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5641
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:21 am 
 

Ezadara wrote:
Back when the primary was competitive all the Sanders fans here were unequivocal that progressives would turn out if Biden won, that in fact the real threat was moderates refusing to vote for Sanders. Now that Biden's actually won, all of a sudden, he's no different from Trump and in fact progressives have decided to undermine him as a deliberate strategy.

And then y'all wonder why the party isn't crazy about bringing progressives into the fold.

To be fair, it doesn't take much effort to undermine Biden. If the Democrats were so worried about their shitty candidate being called out for doing shitty things and having shitty policies, perhaps they shouldn't have pushed him so hard as their ideal candidate. To suggest that Bernie supporters are this major threat to Biden, when Biden actively undermines himself, is trying to find a scapegoat to excuse away just how awful a candidate the party chose and the media propped up.

And if you think it's bad that people on the left are calling this out, and maybe even shouldn't call this out, just wait until Trump and the Republicans really ramp up their campaign efforts.

Honestly, can't wait for the Democrats to try to scramble a counter-narrative to the widespread use of the video where Biden threatens to fight a working class American and says he doesn't represent him, or to see Biden try to excuse away Trump's sexual assaults when he brushes off his own. And this is just barely scrapping the barrel of what's going to come. Suddenly the boogeyman of Bernie being called a socialist doesn't seem so bad in comparison.
_________________
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

R.I.P. Diamhea 1987-2018
Live young, die free. Gone, but not forgotten.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:26 am 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
Progressives reluctantly agreeing to vote for Biden - and the primary being competitive - was before the Democrats openly rigged the primary to prop up Biden's corpse. That changed everything.


What in the actual fuck.

Top
 Profile  
PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 7611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:33 am 
 

wtf as in, you can't believe the DNC is a nest of rat fuckery or wtf as in being angry about voting for biden.
_________________
hats prices are at an all time low

Spoiler: show
║\
║▒\
║▒▒\
║░▒║
║░▒║with this blade
║░▒║i cut those who
║░▒║disrespect
║░▒║Carly Rae Jepsen
║░▒║
║░▒║
║░▒║
▓▓▓▓
[█▓]
[█▓]
[█▓]
[█▓]

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:38 am 
 

PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
wtf as in, you can't believe the DNC is a nest of rat fuckery or wtf as in being angry about voting for biden.


As in, how did they "openly rig" the primary.

Top
 Profile  
PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 7611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:44 am 
 

convenient coverage of biden "soaring" while bernie rallies completely under the radar. warren being a fucking snake and stabbing bernie in the back on live TV while CNN conveniently happens to ask her about a fake quote that allegedly four anonymous "sources" claimed bernie said. pushing the narrative that we need to "heal a broken nation" while claiming bernie's supporters were all radical beard bros (even though proof is completely the opposite). pushing the capitalist narrative and that biden is "safe" (i.e protective of the upper class). memes dissipated and promoted by liberal scum pundits and online news media comparing bernie to a radical and alienating figure. claiming warren is stately and above the fray even though she never once really engaged with common people. claiming biden is for the people all the while his fan base is completely brain wormed to the point where they shout down iraq war veterans and biden tells people they "don't know shit" - these events were only covered by twitter and barely mentioned on any news. convenient eh? almost like liberals are fucking cowards and liberal billionaires are still billionaires.

wonder why the DNC's golden boy is untouched by public media unless it's something good. huh.
_________________
hats prices are at an all time low

Spoiler: show
║\
║▒\
║▒▒\
║░▒║
║░▒║with this blade
║░▒║i cut those who
║░▒║disrespect
║░▒║Carly Rae Jepsen
║░▒║
║░▒║
║░▒║
▓▓▓▓
[█▓]
[█▓]
[█▓]
[█▓]

Top
 Profile  
Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:53 am 
 

Derigin wrote:
To suggest that Bernie supporters are this major threat to Biden, when Biden actively undermines himself, is trying to find a scapegoat to excuse away just how awful a candidate the party chose and the media propped up.

I don't think Sanders supporters are a major threat to Biden-- I also don't think the Sanders supporters on this forum are broadly reflective of Sanders supporters as a whole (which I'm sure grateful for, 'cause we'd be screwed ten different ways if they were). I just like the irony of people here decrying the very notion that Sanders supporters on this forum might not support Biden, followed by Sanders supporters on this forum coming up with schemes to sabotage Biden.

The majority of Democrats voted against Sanders. Once it became a two-person race it wasn't even close. There was no way that kind of comeback was ever going to happen without some small number of Sanders supporters attributing it to the media, to the DNC, to Warren, to whatever they can possibly pin it on to avoid the fact that Sanders' campaign was never built for a two-person race.

Top
 Profile  
Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 6829
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:57 am 
 

Curious_dead wrote:

  Post subject:  Re: US politics, aka Trump timeline of fuckery  
PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
wtf as in, you can't believe the DNC is a nest of rat fuckery or wtf as in being angry about voting for biden.


As in, how did they "openly rig" the primary.


A myriad of ways. We have confirmation, in a story breaking in the New York Times today even, that Barack Obama leaned on multiple candidates and people in the party to try to coalesce support around Joe Biden to make sure Bernie Sanders wasnt the nominee.

The debates were very clearly rigged, or did you not hear the audience literally laugh at the moderator for example asking Sanders if he had told Warren he didnt think a woman could be president, followed by asking Warren how she felt when he said that to her despite him denying he said it? This is only one example, but again, the audience was so taken aback by the audacity and bald-facedness that they *laughed*. Moderators were consistently hostile to Sanders, even at times when it made no sense -- for example, attacking Sanders for trying to link racism to climate change, when CNN itself, the hosts of the debate, had published an articles about how climate change would disproportionately affect people of color. And if that sounds silly to you because its just TV, consider how many American liberals parrot the lines of MSNBC and CNN with fervor rivaling that of Fox News devotees.

Beyond this, we now know that Biden's team literally got a New York Times article changed because it made him look bad (literally leaned on the Times, got them to take out a line about him making women feel uncomfortable in regards to an article about his rape accusation) and made them delay the story to help his campaign. So, to act like the media acts independently of the whims of the democratic party (or at least, liberal media) is simply untrue.

Its also important to remember how the media came up with narratives which were simply untrue, such as the notion of the toxic Bernie Bro (some actual empirical study was done, his campaign didnt have a higher incidence of negative behavior online than any other campaign) being pushed, or the repeated floating of the idea that Bernie could simply tell people to stop being mean and it would work (he did several times, it didnt work because he isnt a cult leader). Or the notion that Bernie himself was some kind of racist, or sexist. Or, hell, the bastards on liberal media comparing him, a victim of the holocaust, to Nazis.

Or even just saying for months and months that he wasnt electable, giving him incredibly negative coverage after winning the first three states. At this point we know the typical democratic voter votes strongly based on media narratives, and by golly they did all they could to craft one against Sanders.

Im also of the opinion that Elizabeth Warren was put forth specifically to stop Bernie Sanders and the ideas he proposed. As soon as she became viable and looked like she would win, she began to pivot away from the progressive proposals to such a degree that her and Joe Biden's policy pages on their websites are functionally indistinguishable. Barack Obama is known to have been pushing Warren as an alternative in party insider circles, and we now know from the NYT article that Obama was working to stop Bernie Sanders. Beyond this, Warren stayed in after crushing defeats in every state, was given a super PAC after she said she would never take one the whole race (that was branded with her own meme, "Persist PAC"), and it turned out to be the biggest PAC of the whole race, funneling millions of dollars to her campaign that we didnt even get to know the source of for a full month after super tuesday just to keep her dying campaign alive. And immediately after Super Tuesday, it stopped funding her, despite her losses mirroring those of the first four contests (not even coming second anywhere), so why would it discourage the PAC? After Super Tuesday, had she not split the progressive vote, Sanders likely would have been the clear frontrunner and unstoppable. Now, while its unlikely literally 100% of Warren's votes would have gone to Sanders, the margins were close enough that I still fully believe she played the role of spoiler.

There are a great many ways the DNC conspired against Sanders, not even going into stuff like the Iowa caucuses delegate math showing Sanders did in fact also win the popular vote, but the discrepencies never being adjusted because the Iowa democratic party simply didnt want to correct the math. Thats an example of actual outright election tampering. There were also instances of massive numbers of ballots being lost, in places such as Texas I believe some 10% of them were mysteriously displaced and later found. But overall I think the degree of riggery was simply the way the media was actively controlled by democratic party bigwigs to ensure the largely disengaged public didn't consider Sanders a viable alternative. A similar effort was deployed in the UK against Corbyn, and as we know from that experiment, co-ordinated media campaigns to implant negative ideas about a candidate in the public consciousness simply work at this stage in our societies. The average voter is not well informed or engaged, and for some reason still trusts the media to be unbiased and fair. (Not even taking into account us now literally having documentation that the party actively worked to sabotage Corbyn's victory in 2017 to ensure he wouldnt remain party leader).
_________________
failsafeman wrote:
Don't talk to Crick.
The_Beast_In_Black wrote:
Hehe, foreskins.


Last edited by Crick on Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 8741
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:06 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
PhilosophicalFrog wrote:
wtf as in, you can't believe the DNC is a nest of rat fuckery or wtf as in being angry about voting for biden.


As in, how did they "openly rig" the primary.


Well, for one, just look at the media coverage Bernie got on supposedly “liberal” stations like CNN and MSNBC. The moderators at every debate hosted by those networks threw softballs at everyone else while framing Bernie and his policies as bad for the country. Then you had the actual anchors on shows on the network openly comparing Bernie to the Nazis whenever he won or picked up any kind of momentum.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

Blacksoul Seraphim Gothic Doom Metal
Autumn's Ashes Melodic Death/Doom Metal

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:47 pm 
 

Seems to me that you have a bigger media problem than a DNC problem.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:05 pm 
 

Just out of curiosity, Curious_dead, but how old are you? What life experience do you have? Military? Any kids?

One reason I'm not in favor of Biden, besides all of the ones put forth above (and, of course, my own distrust of neoliberals), is because of a bridge in my hometown. It was built just as a replacement for an older construction due to higher traffic levels after a new industrial park was developed, and was just seen as a bridge for many years. That all changed in 2005 when Lance Corporal Shayne Cabino, a kid I wasn't very close with but whom I shared plenty of classes and a few really good times, came home from Iraq in a box. For a war that didn't need to happen, that was fought under false pretenses and outright lies, and that led to the deaths of over 4,000 American men and women (to say nothing of the thousands more from allied nations' militaries or post-war operations against ISIS, let alone the local casualties). It wasn't Biden's idea, but he sure as shit voted for it, and has cooked up an explanation that amounts, to use his own words, to a bunch of malarkey.

So when you sit here and want to argue against down-ballot voting (which would accomplish more than a POTUS vote, mind you), or try to pass the buck from garbage establishment politics to a growing vocal contingency that just demands people say what they mean and mean what they say? Just remember that you're arguing in favor of a man who was pro-segregation (fearing its repeal would lead to a "racial jungle"), voted to send thousands of people of my generation off to die so we could haggle for slightly cheaper crude oil, can barely finish a complete sentence, and is part of the same machine that has enabled fuckheads like Trump, the Tea Party, and the neocon semi-fash corporatists to rise to power. All in the name of being the "lesser evil." All in the name of a "return to normalcy."

Normal wasn't working. We needed a change. And we are fucking mad that we aren't being listened to. The vast majority of us are going to work within the system by exercising our Constitutional right to vote for candidates we believe in and agree with, because the alternative isn't going be fun. The Dems either need to understand that they need to stop courting fools that still think Reaganomics can work or get left behind.
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.


Last edited by acid_bukkake on Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:10 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Just out of curiosity, Curious_dead, but how old are you? What life experience do you have? Military? Any kids?

One reason I'm not in favor of Biden, besides all of the ones put forth above (and, of course, my own distrust of neoliberals), is because of a bridge in my hometown. It was built just as a replacement for an older construction due to higher traffic levels after a new industrial park was developed, and was just seen as a bridge for many years. That all changed in 2005 when Lance Corporal Shayne Cabino, a kid I wasn't very close with but whom I shared plenty of classes and a few really good times, came home from Iraq in a box. For a war that didn't need to happen, that was fought under false pretenses and outright lies, and that led to the deaths of over 4,000 American men and women (to say nothing of the thousands more from allied nations' militaries or post-war operations against ISIS, let alone the local casualties). It wasn't Biden's idea, but he sure as shit voted for it, and has cooked up an explanation that amounts, to use his own words, to a bunch of malarkey.

So when you sit here and want to argue against down-ballot voting (which would accomplish more than a POTUS vote, mind you), or try to pass the buck from garbage establishment politics to a growing vocal contingency that just demands people say what they mean and mean what they say? Just remember that you're arguing in favor of a man who was pro-segregation (fearing its repeal would lead to a "racial jungle"), voted to send thousands of people of my generation off to die so we could haggle for slightly cheaper crude oil, can barely finish a complete sentence, and is part of the same machine that has enabled fuckheads like Trump, the Tea Party, and the neocon semi-fash corporatists to rise to power. All in the name of being the "lesser evil."


OK, end the fuck up with Trump, then, if you cannot stomach voting for the "lesser evil", as you put it. Don't you fucking complain about Trump's or the GOP fuckery. You'll need to fucking own it.

Top
 Profile  
acid_bukkake
SAD!

Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:45 am
Posts: 1595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:15 pm 
 

No. I reserve the right to complain about anything and everything that happens in my government, especially when it happens as a result of legitimate progressive candidates and policies being tossed aside for "electability" reasons (which, spoiler alert, doesn't work).
_________________
Earthcubed wrote:
Rage tweeting and dank memes are not essential public services.

darkeningday wrote:
I haven't saw any of the Seen movies.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:26 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
No. I reserve the right to complain about anything and everything that happens in my government, especially when it happens as a result of legitimate progressive candidates and policies being tossed aside for "electability" reasons (which, spoiler alert, doesn't work).


Keep blaming "the system".

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/06/81248651 ... he-planned

There are plenty of worthy and true criticisms that can be leveled at the DNC and the media.

But even Bernie himself admits it. Young people don't vote in primaries.

And look, if the Republican candidate was a fucking beige candidate, a run-off-the-mill candidate, I'd fucking agree with you, but right now, right fucking now, people are dying because of Trump's incompetence. It's not a "normal" GOP crop and it's not a "normal" GOP president. We're talking "actually turning the USA into a real banana republic" kind of disaster.

If that's not enough to get people to vote for the lesser of two evils, well, maybe America deserves a shit president. The problem is, us rest of the world don't.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:36 pm 
 

If you're from Europe or Canada and you tell Americans to vote for Biden, you DO deserve Trump, 100%, without question. Even more than we Americans do, really, because you take the leftist principles that have made your lives so much better and more privileged than Americans', and you tell the US to crumple them up, throw them in the garbage, give into keeping everything exactly the way it is. I don't expect non-Americans to fully understand how this is the result of political changes that have been brewing in our country for decades - all they see is Trump loudly grandstanding when he's actually just supporting the exact same shitty systems that have been perpetuated in quiet for years. They think if Trump goes away, the US goes back to normal. Guess again in 2024.

Top
 Profile  
Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 155
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:45 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
And look, if the Republican candidate was a fucking beige candidate, a run-off-the-mill candidate, I'd fucking agree with you, but right now, right fucking now, people are dying because of Trump's incompetence. It's not a "normal" GOP crop and it's not a "normal" GOP president. We're talking "actually turning the USA into a real banana republic" kind of disaster.

Thing is, you're operating from a fundamentally different understanding than they are. In their view, this is normal, just a little more in-your-face than it has been before. I don't agree in the least but the 'this is worse than before' argument just ain't gonna work here.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Blank Czech

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 3420
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:46 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
Thing is, you're operating from a fundamentally different understanding than they are. In their view, this is normal, just a little more in-your-face than it has been before. I don't agree in the least but the 'this is worse than before' argument just ain't gonna work here.

That is entirely correct.

Top
 Profile  
Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 127
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:50 pm 
 

MutantClannfear wrote:
If you're from Europe or Canada and you tell Americans to vote for Biden, you DO deserve Trump, 100%, without question. Even more than we Americans do, really, because you take the leftist principles that have made your lives so much better and more privileged than Americans', and you tell the US to crumple them up, throw them in the garbage, give into keeping everything exactly the way it is. I don't expect non-Americans to fully understand how this is the result of political changes that have been brewing in our country for decades - all they see is Trump loudly grandstanding when he's actually just supporting the exact same shitty systems that have been perpetuated in quiet for years. They think if Trump goes away, the US goes back to normal. Guess again in 2024.


At this point you're not better than your average red cap. Hopefully the rest of the voters will have more insight than you.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic Go to page Previous  1 ... 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 168, 169 ... 172  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Coppertone, darkeningday, Eradicatedseraphim, Ill-Starred Son and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group