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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:02 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
I mean, they've sure rubbed me the wrong way too, but I'm not a Colorado resident so whichever way I'm rubbed doesn't make a whit of difference. Plenty of Colorado Democrats I know are annoyed at how Romanoff is running things (especially that shower ad of his that dropped earlier in the week), and that includes folks who were leaning towards voting for him over Hickenlooper. Going negative always comes with a risk of turning off voters and Romanoff sure as hell is putting all his chips on going negative in the last couple of weeks leading up to the primary.


The only people I've seen really get upset about that negative ad he put out is Jared Polis and a few other democratic insiders. I don't think people should play nice during primaries, people on the left that think this are too adverse to confrontation and disobedience, overanalyzing the risks of standing up for something and consequentially not playing the game of politics. What- should Romanoff just be "respectful" and not win? He wants to win, and he's playing to win, bottom line. Just like Warren insinuating Bernie is a sexist, or Trump shit talking his way to the oval office. It works.

And, as a voter, it's not like if Hickenlooper wins I'm going to let Cory Gardner win- I'll vote Hickenlooper, as will 95+ percent of dems. But, for the primary, I want to see the two candidates make those differences clear as mud to the public, and attack ads aren't a bad way to do that. In fact, if the attack ad makes the other candidate look bad without a massive fabrication of facts, that's a net good for the party, because then it's clear as mud who the better candidate is for the people they're representing.

Ezadara wrote:
Generally, yes, I agree. But Senate races aren't just a dichotomous 'you win or you lose' kind of thing. A weaker, less known/liked candidate means Democrats have to spend more time, resources, and attention on Colorado instead of on more contestable races like Iowa or Montana, which hurts our overall prospects even if that candidate wins in the end. Hickenlooper as the nominee means less time and money spent introducing him to an electorate that already knows and by and large likes him. Romanoff not only would need more resources getting his name out there but would actively need to wrestle with Gardner/Republicans putting in their own money to define him to the electorate before he has a chance to do it himself.


You're thinking too much like an insider and the insiders are over-complicating this, for their loss. If he has a D next to his name, and if the president is on the ballot, then that person will be voted for by the democrats. The data backs this up. In fact, I wager to think the reason why insider dems want Hickenlooper to win isn't because of the future money they'd have to spend, but the money they've presently spent on the Hickenlooper campaign. They gave him money, not Romanoff, and now they want their ROI.

Ezadara wrote:
It's not unfair, it's true. Was Mike Coffman also a wealthy Ivy League elitist when he beat Romanoff for the Colorado 6th (and that was with the national party behind Romanoff)? Romanoff doesn't have a great track record of winning outside of places that are already heavily Democratic.


He lost against Mike Coffman for the same reason a democrat running in rural Kentucky would- southeast aurora and east of aurora was mostly comprised of flatland boonies and farmers and horse ranchers. Over the last ten years it's seen more than a ten fold change in housing development, urbanization, and consequentially, demographics that favor democrats (to be fair, it started happening around like 2007, the 2008 recession slowed down development around there until around 2012/2013). That's why Jason Crow easily defeated Coffman in 2018- by then, the demographics had shifted to the point that someone like him could win, as well as the fact that the dems were more energized because the opposing party is in the oval office. I don't blame Romanoff at all for losing when he did- he fought a tough campaign in a district that he knew he'd probably lose. Totally different from being primaried by some Yale grad with deep pockets and insider connections.
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Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:35 pm 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
And, as a voter, it's not like if Hickenlooper wins I'm going to let Cory Gardner win- I'll vote Hickenlooper, as will 95+ percent of dems. But, for the primary, I want to see the two candidates make those differences clear as mud to the public, and attack ads aren't a bad way to do that. In fact, if the attack ad makes the other candidate look bad without a massive fabrication of facts, that's a net good for the party, because then it's clear as mud who the better candidate is for the people they're representing.

I don't doubt that most Romanoff supporters will eventually support Hickenlooper if he's the nominee (I'm sure some will refuse, you get that in any primary). And hey, if Romanoff wants to put out an ad highlighting his support for the Green New Deal and attacking Hickenlooper's environmental record as Governor, by all means-- or better yet, an ad highlighting his own record in the legislature-- he should do that (for all I know he has already). But that latest attack ad wasn't about policy in the least. It was just about tearing Hickenlooper down.

Quote:
You're thinking too much like an insider and the insiders are over-complicating this, for their loss. If he has a D next to his name, and if the president is on the ballot, then that person will be voted for by the democrats. The data backs this up.

Yes, I agree broadly, I've made that very point in this thread before. What I'm saying is it's not a choice between winning the seat and losing the seat, it's a choice between winning the seat with resources to spare on other competitive races and winning the seat with fewer resources to spare. I'd probably bet money on Romanoff winning the seat if he's the nominee, but I'd also bet in the process he weakens our prospects of ousting, say, Joni Ernst or Daines, because now Democrats have to spend more time and money introducing him to voters and combating Republican efforts to paint a picture of him before voters know who he is. He ain't gonna get to sit on his butt through the campaign just 'cause he's a Democrat and Colorado's gonna go for Biden.

Quote:
He lost against Mike Coffman for the same reason a democrat running in rural Kentucky would- southeast aurora and east of aurora was mostly comprised of flatland boonies and farmers and horse ranchers. Over the last ten years it's seen more than a ten fold change in housing development, urbanization, and consequentially, demographics that favor democrats (to be fair, it started happening around like 2007, the 2008 recession slowed down development around there until around 2012/2013). That's why Jason Crow easily defeated Coffman in 2018- by then, the demographics had shifted to the point that someone like him could win, as well as the fact that the dems were more energized because the opposing party is in the oval office. I don't blame Romanoff at all for losing when he did- he fought a tough campaign in a district that he knew he'd probably lose. Totally different from being primaried by some Yale grad with deep pockets and insider connections.

I mean, like you said, that change was well on its way when Romanoff ran in 2014. Heck, Hickenlooper got more votes than Beauprez in that district even as Romanoff went down. My point is simply that Hickenlooper's won tough statewide races and Romanoff's never won a race outside one of Colorado's most Democratic state House districts. Hickenlooper's had eight years to define himself to the entire electorate, Romanoff hasn't.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:16 pm 
 

The primaries are the exact correct time to campaign and vote on your values as opposed to some esoteric strategy based on saving campaign funds or defeating a different opponent at some point in the future. These appeals to civility or putting aside your values to vote for the "safe" option are almost always punching left and the wonks just drive me crazy with this. If you're part of the centrist/neoliberal wing of the democratic party just fuckin' say so and make clear that those entrenched establishment people are the one who simply align with your values instead of this constant glib hand wringing insincerity about progressives being too mean in campaign ads or hurting the party by... winning their races and advancing policies they support?

I'm not a Coloradoan either so it's not like I have a vote to cast here, but I see this sort of shit all the time and I really wish the concern trolling in favor of the status quo would just be fuckin' honest about it.
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:58 pm 
 

Hickenlooper's stance on environmental issues and juicing corporations is well to the right of Republicans, he literally claims fracking isn't just not bad for the environment (a fact the entire scientific community flatly rejects), he actually says it's good and super safe for it, even drinking a glass of frack cum at a hearing to prove how totally-not-dangerous it is.

Nevermind a choice between him and Romanoff, if I lived in CO I'd have to seriously consider whether I'd vote for him or Gardener, even if it made or broke the Senate for Democrat control. He's THAT dangerous. He makes Joe Lieberman look like Bernie Sanders. You do not want someone like this in the so-called "left wing" party.
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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 174
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:56 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Hickenlooper's stance on environmental issues and juicing corporations is well to the right of Republicans, he literally claims fracking isn't just not bad for the environment (a fact the entire scientific community flatly rejects), he actually says it's good and super safe for it, even drinking a glass of frack cum at a hearing to prove how totally-not-dangerous it is.

Nevermind a choice between him and Romanoff, if I lived in CO I'd have to seriously consider whether I'd vote for him or Gardener, even if it made or broke the Senate for Democrat control. He's THAT dangerous. He makes Joe Lieberman look like Bernie Sanders. You do not want someone like this in the so-called "left wing" party.

I'm glad you don't live in Colorado, then. I'm not a fan of Hickenlooper's environmental policy either but I'm not about to ignore the fact that Gardner wants to gut gun control laws, repeal Obamacare, build a dumbass wall on the southern border, relegate LGBT people to second-class status, defund Planned Parenthood, and restrict abortion rights... you know, on top of being terrible on the environment himself. If you genuinely believe a Republican-controlled Senate is better for America than Hickenlooper representing Colorado instead of Gardner, then I don't know what to tell you, but I sure hope you live in a solid blue state.

BastardHead wrote:
If you're part of the centrist/neoliberal wing of the democratic party just fuckin' say so and make clear that those entrenched establishment people are the one who simply align with your values

Well, sure, the minute I become a centrist/neoliberal you'll be the first person I tell. In the meantime, I don't think being a progressive means you need to act like you have no clue how elections work, although more and more that seems to be the barrier to entry progressives are putting up.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:59 am 
 

Okay but look, you just did the exact thing that I criticized the establishment types for doing. Hickenlooper isn't being primaried by his Republican opponent. He's being primaried by somebody who you yourself implied is better and conceded that Colorado will likely vote for whoever is in the D column at the end of the day, and still you accept the worse D as the one that needs support because...? He's already there? Because the one with better policies is rude? Because he didn't win a different race years ago? How do you reconcile that with your support of Biden despite him taking several runs at the presidency before nabbing a single delegate? He got them later sure but whose to say Romanoff won't as well?

The only way this makes sense to me is if you lean further right than you say you do, or you see policy and values as secondary to the horse race because fracking plays well in Fuckknuckle County and we need to appeal to them instead of showing, proving, and convincing them that better policies are indeed better.

The real reason Democrats are consistently losing power isn't because lefties are fucking everything up, it's because the only thing they have to offer isn't change for the better, but a vague hope that maybe they can prevent things from getting worse. Things already fucking suck, nobody wants to live in a world that sucks, and if you can't show people why you'll actually make it better then you're going to lose support. This is a fucking primary, why play preemptive damage control when right now is the time to prove you can make it better?

"Sorry sweaty that's just the way the world works" fuck off with that. It can be better. Stop putting up roadblocks if you don't want people to think you're fine with shit sucking.
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Unorthodox
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:14 am 
 

Waaaiiitt. For one, how does this

Ezadara wrote:
I don't doubt that most Romanoff supporters will eventually support Hickenlooper if he's the nominee (I'm sure some will refuse, you get that in any primary). And hey, if Romanoff wants to put out an ad highlighting his support for the Green New Deal and attacking Hickenlooper's environmental record as Governor, by all means-- or better yet, an ad highlighting his own record in the legislature-- he should do that (for all I know he has already). But that latest attack ad wasn't about policy in the least. It was just about tearing Hickenlooper down.


...have anything to do with "Understanding how elections work". Seems like you think that if people don't agree with a popular strategy of going about an election, they somehow "don't understand how elections work". That's an incredibly elitist take if I've ever heard one. Just because people don't agree with you on how someone should campaign doesn't mean they're ignorant of the election process. Like, cmon man :durr:

Ezadara wrote:
What I'm saying is it's not a choice between winning the seat and losing the seat, it's a choice between winning the seat with resources to spare on other competitive races and winning the seat with fewer resources to spare.


What- Romanoff gets in and Colorado isn't going to go red in the senate without more resources from giant federal pacs? Fat chance, I don't buy it, and if this is what outsiders are thinking they need to take a xanax and chill tf out :lol:.
If Romanoff loses then Hickenlooper would lose to, and visa versa. The only reason they'd have to give more resources to Romanoff is because they already pre-pumped the Hickenlooper campaign with money. Otherwise, it's all about how many dems are pissed off about the last 4 years of Donald Trump, full stop.

Ezadara wrote:
I mean, like you said, that change was well on its way when Romanoff ran in 2014.


Yeah but it didn't reach a tipping point until very recently. It's hard to explain unless you live here, but the last 2-3 years there's been a massive explosion in population on that side of town, while the general development happen over a ten year period. In some places, it went from rural nowhere to sprawling suburban crackerboxes really quick. It wasn't surprising when Mike Coffman won, and subsequently it wasn't surprising when Jason Crow won- you could see the shift just by looking around.
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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:03 am 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
...have anything to do with "Understanding how elections work". Seems like you think that if people don't agree with a popular strategy of going about an election, they somehow "don't understand how elections work". That's an incredibly elitist take if I've ever heard one. Just because people don't agree with you on how someone should campaign doesn't mean they're ignorant of the election process. Like, cmon man :durr:

Nope, that's not what I was referring to. I was referring to looking at the broader Senate map and the fact that Democrats have finite time and resources to spend on each race, but I've brought that up like twice now and have struck out every time so I'm gonna say we're just not gonna see eye-to-eye on that. It had nothing to do with Romanoff's attack ad, though.

BastardHead wrote:
The only way this makes sense to me is if you lean further right than you say you do, or you see policy and values as secondary to the horse race because fracking plays well in Fuckknuckle County and we need to appeal to them instead of showing, proving, and convincing them that better policies are indeed better.

I don't have any incentive to pretend to be more progressive than I am here (if I was pretending to be progressive to fit in here or something, why would I even be having this debate?). I mean, I do consider my politics to be progressive. I think healthcare should be universal and covered publicly. I believe in environmental justice and Black Lives Matter. I believe we need stronger regulations, starting with the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall. I think the wealthiest Americans don't pay nearly enough in taxes and closing the loopholes responsible for that (like the Angel of Death loophole) could net us a whole lot of money that we could be using to build a stronger social safety net. I think the fact that Jeff Bezos pulls in a couple hundred million bucks a day while young people across the country are struggling to pay for the education they need to survive because the minimum wage in this country isn't remotely livable is abhorrent. I think those are views that make me a progressive, although I'm open to being corrected if those became common neoliberal views while I wasn't looking.

But I also don't think it matters one whit if a candidate agrees with every one of those views if that candidate also has very little chance of winning, which is what seems to land me in hot water whenever I suggest in this thread that maybe running a progressive Democrat in Nebraska ain't liable to go great. I also don't think the way to convince voters in traditionally conservative areas to shift more Democratic is to expect them to go from voting for Jim Inhofe to voting for Bernie Sanders without any kind of more moderate intermediary in between.

In the case of Romanoff vs Hickenlooper, I think Romanoff as the nominee would require national Democrats to invest more heavily in the race than they'd have to with Hickenlooper as the nominee, which would inevitably draw resources away from other competitive races. That doesn't mean I hate Romanoff. I wouldn't be distraught or anything if he wound up being the nominee. Frankly, with the two notable exceptions of Medicare for All (which Romanoff supports and Hickenlooper opposes) and fracking (the opposite for both), I think they're much more similar on most issues than Romanoff would want people to think. If I have given the impression that I'm a hardcore Hickenlooper fan who despises Romanoff then that's a failure of communication on my part. I just don't see him as helpful to the broader goal of Democrats retaking the Senate.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:24 am 
 

Ezadara wrote:
I do consider my politics to be progressive. I think healthcare should be universal and covered publicly.


And yet in this very same post you argue that it would be better for a person who doesn't think that to win. So yes, I think the second option in my above post is more correct. You're looking at this like a numbers game, and the #1 most important thing is that the blue numbers go up even if what those numbers represent isn't something you actually want. I can understand this sort of nose-holding electoral doomerism if we weren't talking about a primary race. The time to advocate for what you want is right now but you're still holding off on it because the chances of the D candidate winning go down ever so slightly if it's a new and more progressive face instead of the ghoulish old fracklad. Even though you yourself said the party would likely retain that seat, you're still arguing that it would be better to yet again compromise your values for some galaxy brain logic about maybe winning elsewhere with other not-great candidates. If you want the Democrats to run candidates that conservatives will vote for, you're necessarily asking them to just run conservatives. Baby stepping to the right is better than bounding to the right but if you want more left leaning policies in place then stop going right.

I think your second paragraph is pretty telling because you're still focused on flipping centrists and moderate conservatives by simply appealing to right-leaning things they already want instead of advocating for any such effort to be made towards showing those people how much more their lives would improve with universal healthcare or free college or basically anything the rest of Europe already has. Or hey, maybe try running on those things in the first place to energize the gargantuan block of non-voters who feel disillusioned and left behind because so many Mini Nate Silvers like yourself refuse to even consider it because the mythical Sensible Conservative is valued more for some reason. You always take a values based conversation and shift it to be about the normative state of things and wind up abandoning these values you have. You're a progressive, right? You know then how absolutely stacked the deck is against progressives across the board, from the entrenched conservative power structures to the mainstream median to the neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party. And instead of being furious about it and trying to change it in even a super tiny way like supporting candidates closer to your values, you just hop right on board because that's the way it is and you don't seem to care about how it ought to be. Despite being a progressive, you were stumping for Biden on day fuckin' one because the deck was stacked in his favor, and then got real smug about it when Sanders dropped out after everybody else shut the fuck up, kissed the ring, and got in line, which only proved that yup, stacked decks tend to win. Surely you can see why your progressive values amount to somewhere between jack and shit when you're willing to preemptively abandon them in order to get an easy W.

Ezadara wrote:
I also don't think the way to convince voters in traditionally conservative areas to shift more Democratic is to expect them to go from voting for Jim Inhofe to voting for Bernie Sanders without any kind of more moderate intermediary in between.


Remember when Sanders went into traditionally conservative venues like Fox News and The Joe Rogan Experience and by simply sharing his message he managed to flip people or at the very least soften their hatred towards his policies? Getting a dipshit like Rogan on your side is way more important than you seem to think because he and empty headed gymrats like him are all over the fuckin' country and a ton of people listen to what he says. Anecdotally, a (mostly former) friend of mine always clashed with me about my support for Sanders, and after his appearance on Rogan's podcast and subsequent endorsement, said friend reached out to me to say "I was wrong about Sanders. I had no idea X actually meant Y because I never actually listened to what he had to say and had only heard X. I'm still not sure I'll vote for him because I have issues with Z but I actually really, really like Y now that I know it isn't X". Primaries are the time to put those ideas out there and to fight for them, not to immediately concede them because of some overcomplicated 27D Insider Chess about maybe acquiescing to conservatives all the time is the best way to win since conservatives keep winning. If you'd rather take the path of least resistance and just run a moderate instead of taking the effort to show people that X isn't Y, then I've got news for you: You're a moderate. Or somebody who views politics as a game to be won and you just really want your team to score more goals even if they're technically going in the opposing team's net. Or you're a coward. Pick one.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:05 am 
 

Trump picked the perfect time to remove Berman. Everyone’s talking about his dumb rally instead of the real issue last week: how the DoJ botched the removal of the New York AG Berman by trying to resign him.

Berman is finally going: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/20/politics ... index.html

Why it’s yet another open, blatant sign of corruption: he was investigating Trump allies. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-bar ... -1.5621032

But yeah, people talk about how dumb Drumpf is to show that he is capable of actually drinking water with one hand. (To be fair, I love reading articles about how he is miserable given the piss-poor turnout at his rally; another good news is that since only a few went, maybe it won’t supercharge the pandemic).

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Derigin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:13 am 
 

Ezadara literally works and campaigns for the establishment in the Democratic Party. Is it really a surprise that his preferred candidates are the ones the establishment in the party would want?
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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:13 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
Ezadara literally works and campaigns for the establishment in the Democratic Party. Is it really a surprise that his preferred candidates are the ones the establishment in the party would want?


Of course not, which is why I wish he'd quit larping as somebody who actually wants substantive change.
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Ezadara
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:26 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
And instead of being furious about it and trying to change it in even a super tiny way like supporting candidates closer to your values, you just hop right on board because that's the way it is and you don't seem to care about how it ought to be.

I am trying to change it, at the only level where I really have any power to change it right now, which is at the local level. If you want to assume on the basis of my (not terribly strong) sentiments on one Senate race that I'm not, I'm not sure there's much I can say to change your mind.

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Despite being a progressive, you were stumping for Biden on day fuckin' one because the deck was stacked in his favor, and then got real smug about it when Sanders dropped out after everybody else shut the fuck up, kissed the ring, and got in line, which only proved that yup, stacked decks tend to win.

I don't remember being particularly smug, I don't like Sanders but I'm not about to rub his defeat in his supporters' faces or anything.

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If you'd rather take the path of least resistance and just run a moderate instead of taking the effort to show people that X isn't Y, then I've got news for you: You're a moderate. Or somebody who views politics as a game to be won and you just really want your team to score more goals even if they're technically going in the opposing team's net. Or you're a coward. Pick one.

I mean, you're at a point of accusing me of being, I don't know, an establishment actor trying to infiltrate the progressive movement or something, so you're welcome to pick for me, since I'm about ready to bow out of this particular tangent of the discussion. It's pretty clear this conversation is going nowhere fast so I'm not sure there's any reason to continue it.

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Derigin
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:27 pm 
 

The thing that gets me is that it's not something to be proud about in showing how progressive you are by saying that healthcare should be universal and covered publicly. That's not even something particularly progressive, it's just common sense, especially now in the middle of a pandemic. Progressive would be calling for the end of the fundamental structures and systems - financial, societal, political, or otherwise - that enable establishment politics to run the way they do... but you rarely ever hear that come from people who are so entrenched in the establishment within political parties.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:24 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
That's not even something particularly progressive, it's just common sense, especially now in the middle of a pandemic.

As an example, a list of positions by German political parties on universal healthcare:

Far left: Supports universal healthcare.
Green: Supports universal healthcare.
Center left: Supports universal healthcare.
Neoliberal: Supports universal healthcare.
Center right: Supports universal healthcare.
Far right: Supports universal healthcare.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:28 pm 
 

"Far right" in most of Europe is equal to the leadership of the Democratic Party here in the good ol' USA, and even then our Democrats mostly do not support universal health care because the DNC is so blatantly corporatist and bought off by the health insurance industry that there's no way the current leadership will ever support a single payer system. Both parties legit need to be dismantled and replaced before any meaningful change can happen.

Also, this is what Ezadara said around the time Bernie dropped out:

On April 14, Ezadara wrote:
Back when the primary was competitive all the Sanders fans here were unequivocal that progressives would turn out if Biden won, that in fact the real threat was moderates refusing to vote for Sanders. Now that Biden's actually won, all of a sudden, he's no different from Trump and in fact progressives have decided to undermine him as a deliberate strategy.

And then y'all wonder why the party isn't crazy about bringing progressives into the fold.


Quite reeks of "You foolish progressives" to me. Actively trying to stop positive change in this country in the name of scoring political points is not a virtuous position. In fact, it's quite the opposite of virtuosity.
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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:15 pm 
 

The Trump administration determined it was in the national interest to exempt Nigel Farage from the COVID travel ban so that he could attend a campaign rally. Just in case it wasn't clear how the people around Trump intend to run the country if he's reelected.
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On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:16 pm 
 

Most precincts haven't reported yet and with so many people probably voting by mail we don't technically know for sure right now, but I think we can probably rest easy tonight knowing that so far AOC has a...54-point lead, last I looked.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Subrick
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:39 am 
 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/23/politics ... index.html

Yeah, everyone and their mother is calling it for AOC. She's basically gonna be in Congress forever until she either retires or is elected to a higher office.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:42 am 
 

Is the wikipedia page on Michelle Caruso-Cabrera (AOC primary challenger) accurate? Did she really write a book advocating an end to Medicare and Social Security, was a Republican until very recently, is married to an investment banker and Republican party donor and lived in fucking Trump Tower for years? Yet she managed to raise $1 million in campaign funds and was endorsed by the Chamber of Commerce? The fuck?
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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BastardHead
Worse than Stalin

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: St. Charles, Illinois
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:15 am 
 

Libby scratchy bleedy fashy.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:14 am 
 

More importantly, Eliot Engel, endorsed by Hillary, Schumer and Pelosi is getting fucking annihilated by progressive inner city school teacher Jamaal Bowman. The race hasn't been called yet due to mail-ins, but I don't see Engel pulling through.

Sadly, Amy McGrath, an almost-Trump supporting Democrat will probably beat actual progressive Charles Booker. Not that either has a hope and a prayer against Mitch, so it doesn't much matter.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:00 am 
 

For any timeline in which the independent variable Mitch McConnell materializes, that timeline will also feature a McConnell/weak opponent asymmetry.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:22 am 
 

Ah, Donald likes big numbers and 124k isn't big enough a number, so the DOJ ordered the Supreme Court to abolish Obamacare, that's what I just read, another 20 million people would lose their health insurance while Covid infections reach record levels. I suppose it's an easy way to kill off one of Biden's main voter bases without needing the cops to do all the work.
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severzhavnost
Veteran

Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:16 pm
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Location: Ottawa
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:01 pm 
 

Wars and rumours of wars... Trump and Putin deny accusations that Russia has been paying Taliban militants for attacks on US and coalition troops in Afghanistan. Now, I have a very hard time taking anything from Trump or Putin at face value, but the Taliban have denied it too; and while I don’t trust them either, they have nothing to gain by lying.
https://www.albawaba.com/news/did-russi ... ps-1365074
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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:29 pm 
 

Now there's a conflict that people could wildly speculate about with some justification. I have suspicions that America has occupied that region far longer than the public expected for different reasons than what the government has told the public. And, furthermore, it would only make sense that Russia would have an economic incentive to occupy that region. It has 3 trillion dollars worth of untapped minerals. It also lies on the border of Pakistan, a nuclear-armed country in which a slow conflict with India has been unraveling over water resources. Thus, it would make sense that America would want a militaristic presence in that region, albeit simply adjacent to the region.

This particular accusation that the Mujaheddin is somehow getting paid by Russians to kill Americans seems reasonably believable. But I wouldn't ever assert that it definitely happen, at this point it's just wild rumors.
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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:44 pm 
 

When agencies from multiple western countries are saying the same thing, then it isn't "wild rumors." And it is more than just the US; CNN said their own sources in various European intel services confirmed the NYT report.

This isn't even the most brazen thing this particular GRU unit has done, either. It's the same unit that goes around assassinating people inside NATO countries, sometimes with chemical and radiological weapons.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:00 pm 
 

Damn yeah you're right, my bad :lol:
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droneriot
incelgender

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:28 pm 
 

Tomorrow (or the day after tomorrow in American time) is the first possible key date for the Third Intifada that Trump instigated with the annexation plans introduced into the Knesset.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:12 am 
 

I guess the silver lining of Kavanaugh is that he may cause the senate to flip blue thanks to Susan Collins sitting in massively hot water after the narrow Supreme Court decision. Although she was already near the chopping block after her appalling vote on the impeachment.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Curious_dead
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 219
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:27 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
I guess the silver lining of Kavanaugh is that he may cause the senate to flip blue thanks to Susan Collins sitting in massively hot water after the narrow Supreme Court decision. Although she was already near the chopping block after her appalling vote on the impeachment.


I'm sure she learned her lesson...

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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:34 pm 
 

Well. I guess we know why Barr was so hellbent on firing district attorney Berman.

Perhaps of note that it's the corruption unit handling this rather than the sex crimes unit.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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MeavyHetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 273
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:26 am 
 

Hoping we can vote all of these fuckers out of office in November, I don't think this country can take four more years of this bullshit.

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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1917
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:48 pm 
 

At this point, the biggest problem with Trump is that he's so normalized in the psyche of millions of Americans that people try "being reasonable" by comparing him to literally any politician and actually make it a competition. I fucking face palm when I hear people say "Well yeah, Trump is bad, but Biden isn't that much better". Like, are you fucking kidding me?
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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:01 am 
 

"President" Trump's Mount Rushmore speech reminded me about that South Park scientology episode with that part with the caption "This is what scientologists actually believe", I kept having a caption like that in my mind with Trump's speech. Like it's amazing how completely gone people are to buy into any of that obvious fantasy crap. It's one thing that people are Christians and believe in God or that people believe in alien abductions or whatever, but the shit Trump spouts is more on a level of saying Star Wars is real and lightsaber battles are happening on Mars, and it's covered up by Hydra and the Cigarette Smoking Man, and Frodo and Samwise are marching to Mount McKinley to save us from it by throwing the T-800 chip into the volcano.
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Why modern black metal objectively sucks
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Earthcubed
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3918
Location: Ubique
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:17 am 
 

He doesn't really believe much of it either, at least in the sense we would understand belief. Trump is a neuron smoothie of incoherence only minimally capable of understanding his sensory environment, which renders Trump exegetics both impossible and pointless. He "believes" the things he says today as readily as he would "believe" their polar opposites an hour later provided the right aide or family member or OAN host suggested it while sucking up to him at the same time. He wouldn't even understand that he had changed his mind.

The only sense one could hope to make out of Trump's free associations is what his advisors might be telling him, but he doesn't understand their policy advice anyway; he couldn't explain it even if forced to. We're talking about a person whose signature campaign promise---the border wall---only exists because his team needed a mnemonic device so he wouldn't forget to be tough on immigration. He thinks in 4-letter words in arrangements only somewhat more complicated than telegraphic speech.
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iamntbatman wrote:
On Friday I passed an important milestone in my teaching career: a student shat himself

FloristOfVampyrism wrote:
That wasn't meant as a k.o. though, he specifically targeted an area of the cerebellum which, if ruptured, renders you a Jehovah's witness indefinitely

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Luvers
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:34 pm
Posts: 327
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:44 am 
 

During Drumpf's verbal diarrhea at Mount Rushmore yesterday he mentioned - in the same breath - Andrew Jackson, Ulysses Grant & Frederick Douglass. I understand that Drumpf is reading a rehearsed script but you'd think someone would have enough presence of mind to make sure pieces of filth like Andrew Jackson were not included in a encomium. It is rather pathetic really that in the face of all the US' problems, Drumpf would care more about the issue of monuments. "Angry mobs are trying to tear down statues of our founders, deface our most sacred memorials and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities." - I was unaware the Confederacy was part of America's founders.

The last time there was this much unrest regarding civil rights AND a president did nothing to at least curtail the impending disaster was James Buchanan, someone who leads every historian's list of worst presidents. Just like with Buchanan one must ponder if Drumpf's refusal to even address the REAL problems the US is facing is due to being owned by white supremacists or if he is just truly that stupid. At least Buchanan has the excuse of being someone 'of the times' but Drumpf is part of the enlightenment age and there is no justification for this paradox.

I also must be missing something but how is it that someone can have their job taken away, reputation ruined and even face possible physical harm because they used words that could only hurt the feelings of others - all for the sake of making the country better - but it is perfectly acceptable for thousands to gather and spread a deadly virus? There were masks being sold at the rally and almost every single person was refusing to wear them. They should all be fired from the jobs they earned, publicly defamed, receive death threats for their action(s) for the sake of making the country a better place. :roll:

I can accept people being ignorant, everyone is ignorant of something, but why are ignorant people so eager to publicly declare how utterly ignorant they are? They wear it like a badge of honor, like they want their tombstone to include, "I Am Stupid & Proud Of It!"
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MeavyHetal
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 273
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:51 am 
 

Good to know that "Mein Fuhrer Trump" is more concerned about preserving the racist past of the Confederacy than he is helping the American people during a pandemic that is only being made worse by ongoing systemic racism and blatant acts of police brutality, and of course his supporters are lapping it up like pigs in the trough.

Fuck this timeline.

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~Guest 454771
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:01 pm
Posts: 527
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:58 pm 
 

Quote:
Meanwhile, Business Insider (7/1/20) ran a story “confirming” the unfolding bounty scandal, claiming that they had spoken to three Taliban sources who told them Russia and Iran offered them payments. As with the Times, however, the sources were unwilling to put their names to the accusations. Perhaps more comically, Business Insider admitted that it did not even know the name of one of the “Taliban commanders” it cited, communicating to him only via Facebook. If this is how credulous Business Insider is, I know a Nigerian prince who is eager to talk to them about an urgent business proposal.

:lol:
https://fair.org/home/in-russian-bounty ... overnight/

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 5275
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:27 pm 
 

Trump has a 91% chance of re-election, according to the most accurate election model. It also predicts he will expand his 2016 victory by dozens of electoral votes.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 09236.html

Keep America Stupid
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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