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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 6572
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:17 pm 
 

I have not followed the Trump-Russia story closely because from a non-democratic party partisan perspective it looks like a red scare. The way the investigation keeps expanding in the hopes of finding dirt on someone, anyone, strikes me as a lot more similar to how Bill Clinton got railroaded during his impeachment than how Nixon's actual crimes were found out. Can any of you who have been following more closely link the best evidence going so far is that anything illegal has gone down?

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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 8890
Location: Elgin, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:44 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
BastardHead wrote:
3:1 odds he ends up mysteriously dead or missing before his date. Any takers?


Not me. That would be the equivalent of us assassinating the KGB director in the 80's or the FSB director now. I wouldn't put anything past Vladimir "I order my goons to poison diplomats' dogs, just because" Putin but there isn't any precedent for that in US-Russia relations, and it would put Putin himself at risk.

Other witnesses though, that's another story. Again, this is Putin we're talking about.


Putin is smart enough not to be so obvious but I'm talking about Mr. "Think absolutely nothing through and impulsively find new ways to shoot myself in the foot every morning" Trump.
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Sepulchrave
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:29 pm
Posts: 1546
Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 2:40 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
I have not followed the Trump-Russia story closely because from a non-democratic party partisan perspective it looks like a red scare. The way the investigation keeps expanding in the hopes of finding dirt on someone, anyone, strikes me as a lot more similar to how Bill Clinton got railroaded during his impeachment than how Nixon's actual crimes were found out. Can any of you who have been following more closely link the best evidence going so far is that anything illegal has gone down?


I haven't been following on what Trump has been doing for the past few weeks either, concerning Russia, mainly because I don't think Russia is that big of a threat it makes itself out to be on the West. This article may be outdated, but personally the reasons written here are why I'm kinda apathetic to the whole thing. This is not evidence on what happened, but it's informative either way.

https://nobsrussia.com/2016/07/26/trump ... l-summary/
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capeda
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:48 pm
Posts: 510
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 4:38 pm 
 

Beyond Flynn and Manafort (and possibly Kushner), Russiagate is just media fluff. To think otherwise is tant amount to calling Trump a criminal genius, able to produce no loose ends after 10+ months of investigation.

...the same guy who got hot mic'd about grabbing genitals with Billy Bush, and the same guy who shockingly answered in an on-record interview that he fired Comey because he was fed up with the Russia investigation.

However, that being said,this Comey circus absolutely does border on obstruction of justice, even if not intentionally. And if his approval ratings fall low enough, the Republicans will absolutely initiate impeachment in hopes to salvage their party brand (and install the more neocon friendly Pence). The more Trump keeps going on TV, the higher the likelihood he says something that incriminates himself.

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
Posts: 2497
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:16 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
This tweet summarizes pretty much every day in the White House for the last three weeks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/evilsharkey/ ... 7660317696

Quote:
WaPo: The president shat himself.
White House: The president would never shit himself.
Trump: I SHAT MYSELF ON PURPOSE



The only thing missing is how not only did he shit himself on purpose, but something about fake news and everything being everybody else's fault.

Other than that, though, totally accurate.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4409
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 7:30 pm 
 

Hahahaha, even Mr. Semen-and-Fecal-Matter himself has tipped off that, when it comes down to the wire, he and other far right-wingers may support Trump's impeachment.

Though I'll be the first to admit that I'd take Trump any fucking day over Santorum or Cruz.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/19/politics/ ... index.html
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9512
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 9:46 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
This tweet summarizes pretty much every day in the White House for the last three weeks.

https://mobile.twitter.com/evilsharkey/ ... 7660317696

Quote:
WaPo: The president shat himself.
White House: The president would never shit himself.
Trump: I SHAT MYSELF ON PURPOSE

lmao

John_Sunlight wrote:
I have not followed the Trump-Russia story closely because from a non-democratic party partisan perspective it looks like a red scare. The way the investigation keeps expanding in the hopes of finding dirt on someone, anyone, strikes me as a lot more similar to how Bill Clinton got railroaded during his impeachment than how Nixon's actual crimes were found out. Can any of you who have been following more closely link the best evidence going so far is that anything illegal has gone down?

Asking the FBI director to drop an investigation into his national security advisor (who helped his campaign) is not what a non-guilty person would do. Jesus Christ

Next time, how about you spend as much energy paying attention to the facts as you do telling everyone how superiorly non-partisan you are...
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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:30 am 
 

I'm partisan, just not for the democratic party who are the only people who are gaining anything from this (or for the media which makes money from hype). The fact that they want to press the issue is no more evidence that Trump did anything illegal than when the republican party kept pushing the whitewater investigations until they got something they could use against Clinton (even though it still ended up amounting to nothing) was evidence that Clinton did anything illegal. There's certainly connections between some Trump guys and Russians. There's connections between the elites in both parties with Russians. Also with Saudis and Iranians too but that's not a crime.

The word going around is that Russia hacked the election and Trump is a manchurian candidate, but are those things actually true? It seems not to me. You seem convinced, on the other hand. Is there something you read that convinced you? If so I would like to read it too. I assumed since you made this thread you would be interested in sharing what you'd come across and in convincing others. Crazy assumptions?

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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:44 am 
 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-donald-trump-impeachment-staff-quit-20170518-story.html

A pretty good read here. From a Republican saying it's time to jump ship Trump for anyone currently struggling to work beneath him.

Argh, that website runs like shit. Here's the full text:
Spoiler: show
Rick Wilson
Special to the Washington Post


I've been a Republican political consultant for almost 30 years, and I've dispensed a lot of private advice. But now it's time for me to reach out publicly to my fellow Republicans working in the Trump administration.

We really need to talk.

Whether you're a 20-something fresh off the campaign trail or a seasoned Washington insider serving in the Cabinet, by now you're painfully aware that you're not making America great again; you're barely making it to the end of the daily news cycle before your verbally incontinent boss, the putative leader of the free world, once again steers the proverbial car into a ditch. On every front, you're faced with legal, political and moral hazards. The president's job, and yours, is a lot harder than it looked, and you know the problem originates in the Oval Office.

You hate that people are shying away from the administration jobs in droves: Just this week, in rapid succession, both Texas Sen. John Cornyn and South Carolina Rep. Trey Gowdy withdrew their names from consideration as replacements for former FBI Director James Comey, the guy your boss fired. Whatever department you're in, it's a safe bet that it's a whispering graveyard of empty appointments and unfilled jobs.

I know: many of you serving in Cabinet, sub-Cabinet and White House roles joined Team Trump in good faith, believing you could help steady the ship, smooth the rough edges and, just maybe, put some conservative policy wins up on the board. You could see that President Donald Trump's undisciplined style was risky, but you hoped the big show playing over at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue would provide you with cover to work steadily and enthusiastically on the administration's legislative priorities. Some of you even bought into the 'Merica First new nationalism. Many of you quietly assured friends in the Washington ecosystem that Trump would settle into his job - after all, just a few days after taking office, he assured us, "I can be the most presidential person ever."

You figured Trump would turn his political capital into big wins, and that his lack of interest in policy details would let you and your friends in Congress set the agenda. Sure, you knew you'd have to feed Trump's ego and let him take a victory lap after every success, but you also thought you might claim a smidgen of credit for a popular infrastructure bill, a big tax cut, repeal of Obamacare or a host of other "easy" lifts. Because we're all ambitious, right? It's OK to admit it.

Instead, your president botched Trumpcare 1.0 and contributed little as Speaker Paul Ryan managed to ram the public-relations nightmare, Trumpcare 2.0, through the House at the cost of much political blood and treasure. Instead, Trump's fumbles have left many members of Congress ducking town hall meetings as if they're in the Witness Protection Program. The DOA tax bill and the rest of Trump's agenda are deader and more pungent than six-day-old fish. Maybe your particular bureau is still afloat, but you're really not doing much except playing defense and wondering which of your colleagues is leaking to The Post.

You learned quickly that your job isn't actually to serve the nation, manage your agency or fulfill the role you ostensibly play according to the White House org chart. In reality, you spend most of your time fluffing Trump's ego. Either that or you're making excuses for not being a more aggressive suck-up. If you've been ordained to appear on television as an administration surrogate, you know by now that your task isn't to advocate for your agency or issue, but to lavish the president with praise.

Now, you see the daily train wreck; you see a White House in turmoil and a president drawing an ever-tighter circle of family and corporate vassals around himself. You worry that the scandals and legal troubles, that have been rumbling on the horizon like a summer thunderstorm, are drawing nearer. You should worry.

Every day you get up, slide into the seat of your Prius or Tahoe (and, if you're senior enough, exchange a few polite words with your driver) and start checking Twitter. Whatever it is that you're feeling, it doesn't feel anything like Morning in America. It feels like some far-away kleptocracy where the center hasn't held, the airfield and radio station have fallen to the rebels, and the Maximum Leader is holed up in his secret bunker waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Soon (and by soon, I mean now) you'll have to make a choice. You'll have to decide if "I'm here to help" has morphed into "I'm helping this president dismantle the republic." In D.C., principle is as rare as hen's teeth, but, GOP friends, I'm here to help you.

You already know you can't save the president because he doesn't want to be saved. You already know there's not another, better version of Trump getting ready to show up. You're smart. You're loyal. You're sniffing the wind like a gazelle, nose filled with the scents of predators. You don't want to break from the pack too soon, but there's greater risk in waiting too long.

When regimes collapse, dead-enders are the most fascinating to watch — the ones who end up with the profitable concessions and sought —after mistresses. You know already, though, that's probably not you. So, when this regime falls, ask yourself, do you want to be among those who said "not me," or do you want to go out like a Ba'ath Party generalissimo?

Sticking with Trump to the bitter end and pretending the unfolding chaos is just "fake news" won't save your reputation as the walls close in. It won't ease the judgment of history. It won't do anything to polish up your future Wikipedia entry.

Cutting ties with a man who is destructive to our values, profoundly divisive, contemptuous of the rule of law and incontrovertibly unfit to serve in the highest office in the land just might. Do it now.

Washington Post

Rick Wilson is a Republican consultant and a columnist for the Daily Beast.
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~Guest 226319
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:56 am 
 

He forgot that a lot of Ba'ath Party generalissimos went on to be insurgent and ISIS commanders, so at least they've got that to look forward to. :-P

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:43 am 
 

I do find it rather odd that my Russian friends tell me Putin has been conflating Trump with America now, and still constantly blames the US/its president for everything wrong in Russia (as they've done pretty much ever since America was founded). And one of my friends literally wants to kill Putin and is a proud supporter of Russia's Progress Party (the anti-Putin party, basically), yet he prefers Trump to Obama (or as he says, Obamabomba) and Clinton. Though Trump's newfound affinity for carpet bombing the shit out of anything remotely "terrorist-y" sounding, definitely took its toll on his opinion.

So if it is all a conspiracy, it's a fairly retarded one.

Side note: Why do people keep saying "Russia." It's Putin. Russia is a nice country. Putin is a facist/authoritarian piece of shit. LEAVE RUSSIA ALONE!
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9512
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:59 am 
 

Welp

John_Sunlight wrote:
The word going around is that Russia hacked the election and Trump is a manchurian candidate, but are those things actually true? It seems not to me. You seem convinced, on the other hand. Is there something you read that convinced you? If so I would like to read it too. I assumed since you made this thread you would be interested in sharing what you'd come across and in convincing others. Crazy assumptions?

...Have you been paying any attention at all? I'm not going to do your homework for you. Especially since I've never seen you discuss anything in good faith like, ever. Stop wasting everyone's time please.

darkeningday wrote:
Side note: Why do people keep saying "Russia." It's Putin. Russia is a nice country. Putin is a facist/authoritarian piece of shit. LEAVE RUSSIA ALONE!

The Russian people overwhelmingly support Putin.

Spoiler: show
Fuck Russia
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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
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Location: Crippling Velocity
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 1:53 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
The Russian people overwhelmingly support Putin.

Which is easy to achieve with control of the media. Same with Berlusconi running Italian media for a long time and unsurprisingly getting very popular.

EDIT: And also obviously due to the main comparison being with how things where under the predecessor, in Putin's case Jeltsin.

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Sepulchrave
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:29 pm
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Location: Croatia
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:15 pm 
 

^What he said. Russians are nice as any other people on the planet, the problem is that they've had the bad luck of being fucked over by opportunistic boyars, monarchs, authoritarians and oligarchs for as long as it has existed, so the Western concept of a fair society has never really had the light of day due to their media shoving it off for a long time. I mean, I doubt it's had much of a fair election since 1991. Closest it got to a fair society was communism, actually, for a while.
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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 3125
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:25 pm 
 

Youtube: show


Anderson Cooper shouldn't have had to apologize for this comment. It is so true. I have had plenty of discussions with Trump supporters, and he could do whatever he wants and his supporters wouldn't care, and would still defend him.

And, like Russia, Trump is trying to censor the media. He is disrespecting freedom of the press a lot, and denying a lot of the reports about him, dismissing it as fake news, when it is factually accurate. His supporters only pay attention to Breitbart, Alex, Jones, Fox etc so they are brainwashed into believing the 'liberal media' is being unfair to Trump. Facts are meaningless to Trump supporters.

This meme is especially true of those supporters defending Trump for revealing highly classified intel to the Russians, and in the process compromising Israel as the source of intelligence.
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capeda
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:48 pm
Posts: 510
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 2:55 pm 
 

Quote:
And, like Russia, Trump is trying to censor the media. He is disrespecting freedom of the press a lot, and denying a lot of the reports about him, dismissing it as fake news, when it is factually accurate. His supporters only pay attention to Breitbart, Alex, Jones Fox etc so they are brainwashed into believing the 'liberal media' is being unfair to Trump.


This might be a good read for you if you're unclear as to why people perceive that the media has a massive anti-Trump bias. The media is overwhelmingly critical of Trump. In fact, the only time he's received positive coverage in the press was when he shot cruise missiles at Syria. Even Fox News gives him more negative than positive press, by the numbers.


https://shorensteincenter.org/news-cove ... -189799085

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BastardHead
Worse than the PMRC

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 8890
Location: Elgin, Illinois
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:12 pm 
 

Maybe if he wasn't flagrantly, arrogantly, objectively terrible at every turn the media would have nicer things to say about him.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:21 pm 
 

You can't possibly expect an American media representing the whole of the diverse people of this country to go 'maybe he's not so bad' when he makes statements about how we should police mosques, how Muslims cheered on 9/11, etc. It would be bad journalism to pretend those statements AREN'T worthy of intense scrutiny and criticism, and corrections from how wrong they are.
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Napalm_Satan
One-Trick Pony

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:27 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:25 pm 
 

It's hard to say positive things about a person who has no positive qualities to them or their actions.
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capeda
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 8:48 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:49 pm 
 

Not my intent to defend him (especially not after this atrocity of an arms deal with Saudi Arabia). But it begs the question if that level of media scrutiny is justified. Fox News is still attacked as being a hyper-conservative source, for instance, because people think they "praise" Trump.

...but they don't. They factually don't. On a good week, he might get slightly in excess of 50% positive coverage from Fox. Meanwhile, the other stations are being cast as "less partisan" when ~90% of their coverage is about Trump, and it's 80-90% consensus opinion.

My argument is that you can't persuade people to change their opinions on something if there is no debate. For example, though I hate the Saudi Arabian arms deal for a myriad of reasons, I need to hear people defending it to understand their position. If all the press is negative of the deal, it forces me to read/watch/listen to whoever is defending that deal.

Consensus media doesn't create consensus. It alienates the audience. This is how groups like the Alt Right came into being.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 4:53 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
The Russian people overwhelmingly support Putin.

It's difficult to even express how wrong and ignorant this statement is. Look up Alexei Navalny and the genuine strides of the Progress Party. Look up the giant marches across Velki Novograd and St. Petersburg protesting political corruption. Interact on a personal level with many Russian people.

Then look up how the Kremlin conducts polls and how Putin/Surkov/Volodin manipulate pretty much all media across the entire country and distort the Russian people's image internationally. How they'll frequently fabricate charges just to lock away critics. Not to mention widespread election fraud; you actually believe Putin won through democratic means? The most notoriously corrupt government on the planet maintains its power because their people just love them so much and want to keeping voting them in? Seriously?
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 5:37 pm 
 

Napalm_Satan wrote:
It's hard to say positive things about a person who has no positive qualities to them or their actions.

Seriously.

Needing to be "fair and balanced" and "both sides" is just ridiculous bullshit. You reserve that for complex, nuanced subjects, not for an obviously incompetent buffoon who spouts lies with every sentence and piles scandal upon scandal.

capeda wrote:
Not my intent to defend him (especially not after this atrocity of an arms deal with Saudi Arabia). But it begs the question if that level of media scrutiny is justified.

????
Of course it is. HE'S THE FUCKING PRESIDENT

darkeningday wrote:
It's difficult to even express how wrong and ignorant this statement is. Look up Alexei Navalny and the genuine strides of the Progress Party. Look up the giant marches across Velki Novograd and St. Petersburg protesting political corruption. Interact on a personal level with many Russian people.

Then look up how the Kremlin conducts polls and how Putin/Surkov/Volodin manipulate pretty much all media across the entire country and distort the Russian people's image internationally. How they'll frequently fabricate charges just to lock away critics. Not to mention widespread election fraud; you actually believe Putin won through democratic means? The most notoriously corrupt government on the planet maintains its power because their people just love them so much and want to keeping voting them in? Seriously?

Spare me your outrage and obvious strawman. I didn't say he was fairly elected, in fact I am baffled as to why you'd even suggest I said such a thing. But Putin being very, very popular in Russia is nothing new, and not a secret, #notallRussians aside. According to a WaPo article, Putin's popularity actually spiked after the annexation of Crimea.

Just because he's a dictator doesn't mean he can't be popular among his own people. This is not a new phenomenon.
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Erdrickgr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:44 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:04 pm 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Morrigan wrote:
The Russian people overwhelmingly support Putin.

It's difficult to even express how wrong and ignorant this statement is. Look up Alexei Navalny and the genuine strides of the Progress Party. Look up the giant marches across Velki Novograd and St. Petersburg protesting political corruption. Interact on a personal level with many Russian people.

Then look up how the Kremlin conducts polls and how Putin/Surkov/Volodin manipulate pretty much all media across the entire country and distort the Russian people's image internationally. How they'll frequently fabricate charges just to lock away critics. Not to mention widespread election fraud; you actually believe Putin won through democratic means? The most notoriously corrupt government on the planet maintains its power because their people just love them so much and want to keeping voting them in? Seriously?


Putin doesn't have control over Pew and other independent polling groups, which have shown that the overwhelming majority of Russians approve of him. This isn't some ruse as happened during Soviet times, when the government were trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the world and solitary figures like Solzhenitsyn were trying to raise the alarm (besides the American government, obviously, as its primary rival). Putin is the autocrat the majority of Russians want. They don't want to be anything like the west, and they don't want leaders that are considered "weak," like Yeltsin and Gorbachev. Stalin has more favorable ratings than those two combined.
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dystopia4
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:09 pm 
 

He's obviously bad news, but I'm not that surprised that a lot of the Russian population supports an autocratic figure like Putin. Let's not forget that Russia has virtually no history of democracy.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:19 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
But Putin being very, very popular in Russia is nothing new, and not a secret, #notallRussians aside. According to a WaPo article, Putin's popularity actually spiked after the annexation of Crimea.

Just because he's a dictator doesn't mean he can't be popular among his own people. This is not a new phenomenon.

This New Yorker article from less than two months ago may clear things up as to what's happening in Russia right now:
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk ... -for-putin

Quote:
For the Kremlin, the geographic diversity of Sunday’s protests was just as unsettling as their demographics. Gatherings of various sizes were held in nearly a hundred Russian cities, including places where demonstrations hadn’t occurred five years ago, during the previous wave of anti-Kremlin protests. A couple of hundred people came out in Nizhny Tagil, an industrial stronghold in the Ural Mountains where, in 2011, factory workers had volunteered to travel to Moscow and, if necessary, use force against anti-Putin protesters. More than a hundred and fifty people were detained in Makhachkala, the capital of Dagestan, a republic in the North Caucasus where Putin got more than ninety per cent of the vote in 2012. It was clear that the Kremlin hadn’t anticipated anti-government activity in such regions, and that it had failed to give clear instructions to local authorities. As a result, in some places, the protests went on unmolested; in others, they were broken up roughly, as in Omsk, where authorities had snowplows drive out the crowd in the city’s central square.


My point was only ever Putin =/= Russia.
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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am
Posts: 1060
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:37 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
Anderson Cooper shouldn't have had to apologize for this comment. It is so true. I have had plenty of discussions with Trump supporters, and he could do whatever he wants and his supporters wouldn't care, and would still defend him.

Remember, this is the same guy who once said he could shoot someone in the middle of the street and his supporters would still support him.

Most astute observation Trump has ever made!

I also find it interesting when people act like the level of scrutiny isn't warranted because they think this presidency is exactly like every other presidency. On what planet? Even Trump and his adult children have said the opposite of that.
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severzhavnost
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:53 pm 
 

capeda wrote:
Not my intent to defend him (especially not after this atrocity of an arms deal with Saudi Arabia).


Does anybody at all think that this monstrous contract is a good thing? What the fuck! Wasn't one of Trump's selling points supposed to be non-intervention, peeling back the Empire to defend America first? So that turned out to be bullshit too... I won't bother getting into the list of reasons that some folks always hated him, because others have said it already. But now, to his supporters - has Trump come through on anything he said? I really can't grasp how anyone still approves of the job this turkey has done.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4409
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:57 pm 
 

severzhavnost wrote:
Does anybody at all think that this monstrous contract is a good thing?

Yup! :lol:

EDIT:
actual human being who literally lives on planet earth wrote wrote:
It's called gaining leverage while giving them the means to deal with their own shit - somebody was going to sell them those arms, but now there is a measure of control over them.


I'M DYIN' OVER HERE.
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Last edited by darkeningday on Sun May 21, 2017 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 11786
Location: In the Arena
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:58 pm 
 

The funniest part is that people thought that Trump, a well-known cheat and liar who renegged on tons of business deals, would for some reason keep all of his promises THIS time.
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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 3125
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:07 pm 
 

capeda wrote:
But it begs the question if that level of media scrutiny is justified.

It is justified. It isn't murky, and when I have watched Trump coverage on the news the hosts discuss things with Trump supporters. All Trump supporters do is minimize, and normalize Trump's behavior, use straw man arguments, and attack Clinton for emails or Benghazi again.

capea wrote:
My argument is that you can't persuade people to change their opinions on something if there is no debate.


There is a debate. Trump supporter's just can't debate cause there is no substance to defending Trump. They just do what I wrote above. Trump backtracked on many of his promises, lies about climate change, destroys the environment, helps only himself, and the elites with tax proposals, blames Muslims and any other non-white male group for all of America's problems, constantly does everything that he criticized Obama, and Clinton for(plenty of his past tweets get dug up to represent this), and his administration just generally lies about almost everything. Trump is also a dictator, and fires whomever disagrees with him.

But, you are right that nothing can persuade his supporters. If they haven't stopped supporting him at this point then nothing will change that cause Trump has done so many terrible things for our country already.
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tanabata wrote:
I heard one of the moderators blacklisted them because of his subjective opinion. Well If that is the case, you sir have shit taste and you ain't my nigga!

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9512
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 7:35 pm 
 

AcidWorm wrote:
constantly does everything that he criticized Obama, and Clinton for(plenty of his past tweets get dug up to represent this)


Yuuuup

Here's a recently relevant example:

Dec. 2015 wrote:
Dopey Prince @Alwaleed_Talal wants to control our U.S. politicians with daddy’s money. Can’t do it when I get elected. #Trump2016

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 8055410689


Want more? Sure.

Sep 2013 wrote:
AGAIN, TO OUR VERY FOOLISH LEADER, DO NOT ATTACK SYRIA - IF YOU DO MANY VERY BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN & FROM THAT FIGHT THE U.S. GETS NOTHING!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 3376144384

Oct 2014 wrote:
We pay for Obama's travel so he can fundraise millions so Democrats can run on lies. Then we pay for his golf.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 2514038784

Nov 2016 wrote:
Looking at Air Force One @ MIA. Why is he campaigning instead of creating jobs & fixing Obamacare? Get back to work for the American people!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 2471124992

Nov 2012 wrote:
Russian leaders are publicly celebrating Obama's reelection. They can't wait to see how flexible Obama will be now.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 48?lang=en

Jul 2016 wrote:
Hillary Clinton should not be given national security briefings in that she is a lose cannon with extraordinarily bad judgement & insticts.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 56?lang=en

------------

More here or in this subreddit. It's a goldmine, really.

And let us never forget the very best tweets of all time:

Nov 2012 wrote:
The electoral college is a disaster for a democracy

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 6504494082

and
Jun 2014 wrote:
Are you allowed to impeach a president for gross incompetence?

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 0149157888

This guy's the master of projection.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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AcidWorm
Veteran

Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 3125
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 8:27 pm 
 

How about this tweet?
Quote:
Many people are saying it was wonderful that Mrs. Obama refused to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia, but they were insulted.We have enuf enemies


Melania did not wear a headscarf...
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/trumps ... mp-n762581

And, this article

The 26 times Donald Trump tweeted about Barack Obama playing golf too much.
http://www.sbnation.com/golf/2017/3/27/ ... obama-golf



Trump wastes millions of taxpayer money to play golf in Florida every weekend.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... lago-cost/
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In reference to Baby Metal
tanabata wrote:
I heard one of the moderators blacklisted them because of his subjective opinion. Well If that is the case, you sir have shit taste and you ain't my nigga!

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t1337Dude
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:20 am
Posts: 956
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 10:23 pm 
 

I honestly think Trump is doing a great job and regardless of the minutia and the hysteria of the rather hilarious press, he is pushing the country in the right direction. The election was an either-or situation, and with all that was revealed in the Wikileaks (collusion with Saudi Arabia, Burning of Bernie, massive corruption, etc.) it is very morally objectionable in my mind to let democrats take office again.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
Posts: 10291
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:03 pm 
 

I remember listening to this clip on Opie and Anthony. This was of Trump back in 2011 when he was attacking Obama over his birthplace.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aszpJ1Iuroo

This was when I knew he was 100% full of shit beyond any other US politician.

@ 16:55 for this piece of fun. https://youtu.be/aszpJ1Iuroo?t=16m55s

Trump wrote:
This is interesting, Libya, because the Arab league which is Saudi Arabia and many of the wealthiest nations in the world told us to go in and take out Gaddafi. Now, if they would have said that to me I would have said $5 billion right now.


So essentially, use the US Armed Forces as a hit squad to whack any dictator for $5 billion.

Just one of the many other nonsensical things this man says. There was another comment in the same clip about Obama wasting time on the basketball court instead of strong-arming OPEC into lowering oil prices but, c'mon, my sides are hurting now from laughing.
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Grave_Wyrm
Metal Sloth

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 3858
Location: FML States of America
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:18 pm 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
I honestly think Trump ... is pushing the country in the right direction.

What direction is that, specifically, if you don't mind my asking? What does a morally appropriate future look like to you?
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9512
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:24 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
What direction is that, specifically, if you don't mind my asking? What does a morally appropriate future look like to you?

Honestly you're probably wasting your time. Anyone who thinks "Trump is doing a great job", by any metric, is obviously brain-dead or trolling.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 25811
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:30 pm 
 

He's doing such a great job that most of the country hates him and everything he does gets shot down by the court system. Yeah...
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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 7891
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:39 pm 
 

t1337Dude wrote:
I honestly think Trump is doing a great job and regardless of the minutia and the hysteria of the rather hilarious press, he is pushing the country in the right direction. The election was an either-or situation, and with all that was revealed in the Wikileaks (collusion with Saudi Arabia, Burning of Bernie, massive corruption, etc.) it is very morally objectionable in my mind to let democrats take office again.


Here, ladies and gentleman, you can see a prime example of rejecting reality and substituting your own.
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t1337Dude
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 5:20 am
Posts: 956
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:42 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
t1337Dude wrote:
I honestly think Trump ... is pushing the country in the right direction.

What direction is that, specifically, if you don't mind my asking? What does a morally appropriate future look like to you?

That's a pretty long topic for me to get into. Outside of the general principle that I appreciate the freedom that comes with minimizing the government, I'll pick a single example so I don't get all over the place trying to illustrate my point.

One example would be that I like his stance on illegal immigration. To me, a morally appropriate future would be a country that upholds its laws in regards to that issue. It's disrespectful to the many immigrants who put the effort to come here legally. With the direction of Obama and Hillary - the goal appeared they more or less wanted to give full amnesty to illegal immigrants. While the U.S.A is a country of immigrants, these immigrants were in essence citizens who came here legally. Having large amounts of people living here under-the-grid and taking advantage of our countries privileges isn't appealing to me. And there are instances such as when USA citizens lose their children (or their children get raped) to illegal immigrants who happen to be criminals and were let off the hook in Sanctuary cities. Trump doesn't handle the situation how I'd personally prefer, but it's much closer to what I think is appropriate than what would've come with the other options. Having said that, I was a Bernie guy for the longest time (like most people in Seattle), and had Bernie beat out Hillary, I think I would've been open to seeing how handled everything (regardless of how different than I would've preferred).

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 25811
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2017 11:46 pm 
 

You are basically using illegal immigrants as a scapegoat - crime is a more complex problem than that. Ridiculous to boil it down to "illegal immigrants" like getting rid of them would make everything okay all of a sudden. Plus it was never that bad before and all Trump is doing is deporting more people who committed extremely minor offenses and breaking up families for no reason. Fuck him.

Obama and Hillary never wanted to give full amnesty to illegal immigrants so much as just not be needlessly harsh and scapegoat them as evil rapists and killers like Trump does. Again, fuck him - you are wrong on this.
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