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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:09 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
The album leaked. It's fine but probably their worst. Really chill and repetitive jam material.

It's a shitton better than 10,000 Days. Can't fathom how someone could see differently.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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droneriot
incelgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:52 am 
 

I have yet to meet anybody who is a big fan of 10,000 Days but I'm sure they exist, fans for everything exist. I think "Vicarious" is a cool opener and "Right in Two" is a nice archetypal alt rock peace anthem that could (or should) have been done by Pearl Jam, the entire rest of the album goes in one ear and out the other with no effect one way or another.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:33 am 
 

10,000 days is cool. Not as cool as Lateralus or Aenima but definitely better than this one. Jambi, Wings for Marie I and II as Rosetta Stoned are way batter than any of the new songs. Right in Two and Vicarious are also good.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:21 am 
 

10,000 Days sounded like Maynard James Keenan ft. Tool. Most of the album would've been better relegated to one of his side projects. I liked Rosetta Stoned but eh. Fear Inoculum is kinda the exact opposite; MJK sings some of his blandest melodies and gives the most subdued performance of his career, but it works because he's buried in the mix, equal to or even lesser than the guitar and it lets the rest of the band shine. They've also finally scrubbed the last traces of nu-metal from their sound and for that I couldn't be happier, and there is no fucking way any of these tracks could make it to the radio, which is also a first. Fuckin' Justin Bieber was quoting The Pot just a few weeks ago.

But if you're looking for an album to sing along to while you drive to work you'll definitely be disappointed.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Dungeon_Vic
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:45 am 
 

I don't understand how you can discuss 10,000 Days and not mention The Pot as one of its highlights, it is easily among my favorite Tool songs ever.

Only heard the new song. It's very nice. It's also very safe or "tool-ordinary" compared to their standards but it's nice. And I could only listen to it to enjoy that rhythm section... Also, I don't get the "they took 13 years for this?", as if every year adds quality to the final result. It's almost like a reunion album at this point.
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Gravetemplar
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:53 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
10,000 Days sounded like Maynard James Keenan ft. Tool. Most of the album would've been better relegated to one of his side projects. I liked Rosetta Stoned but eh. Fear Inoculum is kinda the exact opposite; MJK sings some of his blandest melodies and gives the most subdued performance of his career, but it works because he's buried in the mix, equal to or even lesser than the guitar and it lets the rest of the band shine. They've also finally scrubbed the last traces of nu-metal from their sound and for that I couldn't be happier, and there is no fucking way any of these tracks could make it to the radio, which is also a first.

Wait, what? There's no way any of the songs in 10,000 could have been relegated to Puscifer or APC except maybe the Pot. Wings for Marie I and II, Right in Two, Vicarious, Rosetta Stoned and Jambi all sound 100% Tool. You're just exagerating. They've also never sounded even remotely nu-metal. I might have agreed if you'd said they ditched the 90s alternative rock/post grunge sound of Undertow but Tempest is their most 90s songs in years. Some of the riffs sound straight out of Intolerance.

I agree this sounds like 3 of the Tool members + Maynard doing his thing in the background though. His vocals are probably a bit rushed.

darkeningday wrote:
Fuckin' Justin Bieber was quoting The Pot just a few weeks ago. But if you're looking for an album to sing along to while you drive to work you'll definitely be disappointed.

Image

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
I don't understand how you can discuss 10,000 Days and not mention The Pot as one of its highlights, it is easily among my favorite Tool songs ever.

Only heard the new song. It's very nice. It's also very safe or "tool-ordinary" compared to their standards but it's nice. And I could only listen to it to enjoy that rhythm section... Also, I don't get the "they took 13 years for this?", as if every year adds quality to the final result. It's almost like a reunion album at this point.

I like The Pot, I just like most of the songs better. Again, I don't think it's a bad album.

I have to agree. The whole album is very safe and ordinary but I like it. At this point they sound like a bunch of old friends jamming some tunes but that's OK. My only problem with the album is that it sounds a bit samey, all the songs except 7empest are pretty similar. I'm missing a bit of intensity, specially in Pneuma, Invincible and Culling Voices. Too much digital distortion too, the production could be better.

Tempest > Pneuma > Descending > Fear Inoculum > Culling Voices > Invincible.

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blackdiamond74
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:18 pm 
 

Of the songs I've heard (Descending, title track, Invincible) I think Invincible is great. Just goes to show, different strokes.

Was there nu-metal stuff on Lateralus or 10,000 Days? I'm not being facetious, i'm genuinely interested to hear what part(s) folks think sounds like nu-metal. Grunge-era sound I can hear b/c that's the era they began in.

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Unorthodox
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:15 pm 
 

Tool doesn't have anything nu metal about them. They definitely embody a fair amount of 00's radio rock, but that's also because of how frequently they were played on the radio.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:24 pm 
 

Yeah, there's never been anything even remotely nu-metal about Tool. They may have been popular amongst people who bought nu-metal records in the 90s/00s, but they were always operating in a different area to those bands.

They also should be on the Archives as well IMO - I'm sorry, but I hear metal riffs in a good amount of their songs. They qualify.

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jimbies
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:34 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Yeah, there's never been anything even remotely nu-metal about Tool. They may have been popular amongst people who bought nu-metal records in the 90s/00s, but they were always operating in a different area to those bands.

They also should be on the Archives as well IMO - I'm sorry, but I hear metal riffs in a good amount of their songs. They qualify.


Every single Tool thread or mention ends up in this discussion, which often ends up getting the threads locked (I guess more risk if it's in the main forum), but I agree. I'm not even that into them, but the fact that King Gizzard is now on here, and they aren't is slightly absurd. Sure, KG put out a pure metal record this month, but the ratio of non-metal to metal between those two bands is lopsided, to say the least.

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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:23 pm 
 

jimbies wrote:
Sure, KG put out a pure metal record this month


And that's legitimately all that matters, so this particular thread of discussion is done.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:45 pm 
 

At least a third of Aenima is nu-metal; Stinkfist with slightly tweaked vocals could appear on Sepultura's Roots and no one would bat an eye other than everyone would hail it as the best song on the album. Hell, the vocal filters Maynard uses on half the album sound almost indistinguishable from Jonathan Davis's bag of vocal tricks. After that, Tickes & Leeches on Lateralus has tremendous amounts of nu-metal influence, and traces still show up here and there on the rest of the post-Aenmia albums (guitar licks on Parabola and The Pot, for instance) until Fear Inoculum. And I couldn't be happier. There's also a lot less palm-muted groove, and when it does show up it just adds to the song rather than overtaking it entirely ala Jambi.

Did anyone else catch the use of prime numbers on Invincible? Quite the song. Honestly the title track is probably my least favorite, and I still find it decent.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:55 pm 
 

Darkeningday is as insufferable as the entire Tool fanbase, jesus maynard christ. Calling Tool nu metal is historical revisionism, honestly. Except being released in the same era, it shares pretty much nothing with the loose genre that nu metal is. Tool, kind of like Deftones, are in a class of their own, in a sort of creative bubble outside spheres of influence.
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Five_Nails
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:09 am 
 

Just got through the album. That was one hell of a self-indulgent snooze-fest.

As for the whole '10,000 Days' discussion, at least that album had some variety in it. It got pretty terrible too with the whole hospital bit but with this latest album, where was the beef?

Though my favorite part overall had to be when Maynard said something that didn't make any sense, the tribal drum went thump thump, and the bass went dragging upward in an almost melody.
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schizoid
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:29 am 
 

Metantoine wrote:
Darkeningday is as insufferable as the entire Tool fanbase, jesus maynard christ. Calling Tool nu metal is historical revisionism, honestly. Except being released in the same era, it shares pretty much nothing with the loose genre that nu metal is. Tool, kind of like Deftones, are in a class of their own, in a sort of creative bubble outside spheres of influence.


This was fine until you tried to pretend Deftones aren't (weren't?) Nu-Metal.
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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 2:28 pm 
 

Five_Nails wrote:
Though my favorite part overall had to be when Maynard said something that didn't make any sense, the tribal drum went thump thump, and the bass went dragging upward in an almost melody.


A great Tool roast if I ever saw one. I mean, I enjoy the first three records to a point, and respect them for creating a recognizable sound, but man, I almost wish that they were on MA so that I could trash Lateralus.
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ThePoop
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:35 pm 
 

Tool being nu metal, “Right in two” could be a Pearl Jam track - I swear some of the shit in this thread is goofy as hell. But hey, props to MA for not being another Tool circle jerk :thumbsup: God knows we have enough of that on the internet.

Metantoine wrote:
Darkeningday is as insufferable as the entire Tool fanbase, jesus maynard christ.

I honestly encounter the insufferable tool fan meme more than I encounter insufferable tool fans. Not saying they don’t exist but it’s low hanging fruit. Anywho...

I caved like a bitch and gave the leak one listen. I’ll wait til Friday for more listens. But after 1 play through my initial reactions are as follows: 7empest is definitely the highlight. Pneuma and Culling Voices were far better than what I was expecting after reading other reactions and reviews. They might be my favorite highlights after 7empest. Not a single song could get radio play and I think that’s a pretty cool thing about this record. And while some detractors aren’t keen on the jam-nature of the songs, I dig it. But that kind of stuff appeals to me, and I was pleased to hear that filtered through Tool. Based off early reviews I was expecting Danny to be the driving force and while obviously he’s incredible on the album, this is Adam Jones’ opus. This seems like the most guitar focused Tool has ever been and it’s glorious.. All in all it’s a great album as only Tool can deliver. If I had any gripes it would be that I think some of the fat could have been trimmed at certain moments, and each song has more or less the same structure. But I definitely need repeated listens.
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BasqueStorm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:54 pm 
 

Gravetemplar wrote:
The album leaked. It's fine but probably their worst. Really chill and repetitive jam material.

Thanks! :beer:

droneriot wrote:
I have yet to meet anybody who is a big fan of 10,000 Days but I'm sure they exist, fans for everything exist.

:roll:

Metantoine wrote:
Tool, kind of like Deftones, are in a class of their own, in a sort of creative bubble outside spheres of influence.

:thumbsup:

ThePoop wrote:
This seems like the most guitar focused Tool has ever been and it’s glorious.. All in all it’s a great album as only Tool can deliver. If I had any gripes it would be that I think some of the fat could have been trimmed at certain moments, and each song has more or less the same structure. But I definitely need repeated listens.

Sounds good! :thumbsup:

Downloading.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:03 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:18 pm 
 

BastardHead wrote:
jimbies wrote:
Sure, KG put out a pure metal record this month


And that's legitimately all that matters, so this particular thread of discussion is done.


Lateralus is a metal album FFS.


(apologies if that post seems in annoyance - I'm in a foul mood for other non-musical reasons and it's bleeding through into things a bit tonight).

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:42 pm 
 

Yeah maybe with an extreme stretch the demo is 20% metal but Lateralus? A hundred times less metal than even any of the nonsensical "selected exceptions" stuff on the site. Can't even convince the LSD addicts who think Rush is metal of that one.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:06 pm 
 

I think The Grudge is kinda metal...ish. Like, I could see an argument for it. Not so much the rest of the album.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:11 pm 
 

I just gave it another listen tonight and IMO it's a progressive metal album. The guitar sound is definitely more metallic than plain rock, there's lots of riffs which to me qualify as straight up metal ones. The title track is a metal song, to my ears that's not really up for contention. It's a metal album, albeit a less conventional one.

But I'm aware this isn't a view shared by most people here, so whatever. TBH I don't generally disagree with any of the site's accession rules for bands, apart from Tool and Blue Oyster Cult who I think might qualify under the 'selected exceptions' category. Generally though the Archives get it right.

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droneriot
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:42 pm 
 

Just bizarre unless you think everything with distorted guitars is metal. Where are the metal riffs?
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:00 pm 
 

The crescendo bits of The Grudge, title track, pretty much all the tracks have some there

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jimbies
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:43 pm 
 

Cosmic_Equilibrium wrote:
Generally though the Archives get it right.


This always gets overlooked on threads like this. They really do. There are a few borderline ones we are gonna argue about forever, but the M-A track record speaks for itself.

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BastardHead
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:54 pm 
 

Tool is a hugely popular band and it's a massive event for them to finally release an album after like thirteen years or whatever, I'd really hate to see it locked down because some people couldn't stop fucking bickering about their inclusion or exclusion from MA.

Take it to the proper channels and knock it off.
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Cosmic_Equilibrium
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 pm 
 

Yeah, OK sorry. The new album being here at all is the main thing. Paid for and downloaded it, put it on the MP3 player and went for a night walk (it's like 3am over here), currently back home and finishing up on 7empest. First thoughts are that it feels a bit like Lateralus (especially on Pneuma), but looser and more spread out. So far Pneuma and 7empest are the high points, but the whole thing is good. Not sure about the interludes though, apart from CCT they seem a little unnecessary, but it's only first listen.

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Deathstalker1985
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:11 am 
 

Yeah I just came here to mention that all the people here that listened to the early leak only got to hear the CD version of the album which contains the 6 main songs + 1 segue (Chocolate Chip Trip). The digital version of the album that leaked earlier today has an additional 3 segues, personally I dig them and am glad to now hear the album the way it was really intended. It didn't feel like a Tool album without a few segues, they've been doing their albums like that since Aenima.

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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:36 am 
 

Do these 3 "bonus" tracks actually add anything meaningful to the album? In all previous Tool albums I skipped all of these literal filler tracks after the first listen, with only Eon Blue Apocalypse being the one I ever revisted.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Unorthodox
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:10 am 
 

Jamming Pneuma as we speak, will give a proper opinion eventually. Shame that a lot of you couldn't just wait for the proper release... after thirteen years, you couldn't just hold your music ejaculation for 3 days? I'm disappointed.
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Gravetemplar
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:05 am 
 

darkeningday wrote:
Do these 3 "bonus" tracks actually add anything meaningful to the album? In all previous Tool albums I skipped all of these literal filler tracks after the first listen, with only Eon Blue Apocalypse being the one I ever revisted.

They are just filler interludes. I like the album but if you listen to the official CD version you're not missing anything interesting. I don't get the people that say if you didn't wait for the web release you're not listening the album "the way the band intended". If those interludes were really that important the band would have released a 2xCD.

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jimbies
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:57 am 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
Jamming Pneuma as we speak, will give a proper opinion eventually. Shame that a lot of you couldn't just wait for the proper release... after thirteen years, you couldn't just hold your music ejaculation for 3 days? I'm disappointed.


some of us aren't big tool fans and were checking it out due to morbid curiosity. I didn't know the interludes were missing, or else I would have waited.

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Lord_Of_Diamonds
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:10 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
Just bizarre unless you think everything with distorted guitars is metal. Where are the metal riffs?


The extended soft dynamic sections and power chords negate the metal-ness as usual, but when there is a metal riff, it’s more metal than it’s ever been before. Kind of like you made an entire album based on the guitar styles and influences of “Parabola”.
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:54 pm 
 

For the xenophobes in the room, tablas are not "tribal drums."


Five_Nails wrote:
where was the beef?

Responding to the sentiment, not the poster.

It bears mentioning that it's different to listen to bands retroactively than contemporarily. I've been listening to Tool right along. No one reflects the spirit of the Rennaisance like they do. Youtube is laughably poor at communicating the strength and immersion of their live shows. In those spaces, it's easy to see that there's something large at work. They're very much an exemplar of the power of the idea.

Attention to detail is craft. And central of the development of craft is change. Undermining your art to suit other people is the true failure, not change. It sucks for purists, but bands will change. Their perspectives change, they'll look at their past work under a different light and revisit or revise it or abandon it. I've always admired the band's devotion to refinement and development of themselves as people. The band itself is a tool they use to accomplish work, and it's not the only thing they do with their time. They've been making music for 30-odd years. They're all in their 50s. It isn't surprising that people making art that long will change the mode of expression, and that people living that long will have mellowed. In fact, it's unrealistic and short-sighted to think or wish that they wouldn't.

Personally, I find the new music beautiful. It reminds me of The Incubus of Karma in that the approach is signature, but they've obviously grown. It's clear they've walked away from the "obligation" to be dark, morose, and intense in favor of exploring more romantic, epic, and gentle facets of themselves. Expression evolves.

It's my age speaking: I understand that change. How do you make dark, angry, intense art when you're comfortable, centered, indulging in sensitive tenderness and simplicity, with no significant internal conflicts anymore -- being thankful that those tumultuous times are over, that you have a different set of goals, gratified that you've put in the personal effort over a long period of time to make that so?

Beef has had its day. There are plenty of other things to eat. Obsession with grit, darkness, and intensity is by definition a narrow-minded view of life.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:32 pm 
 

I see, bands change therefore it's automatically good. Known that one from kluseba's In Flames reviews already but it still never ceases to bewilder me. I've still only heard that one song, but if people feel the need to pull those presumptious "get out of jail free"-cards already that's not a good sign. Was Morbid Angel turning into a half-arsed Genitorturers clone in 2011 natural change and maturing as artists, I wonder...
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FirebathDan
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:17 pm 
 

This album is tremendous.
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red_blood_inside
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:29 pm 
 

Extraordinary. As usual. In my ears this is not and never was nu metal in fact, is some kind of prog metal. But i have no problem if they are not in MA. What matters to me is the music, and they deliver a tremendous job in every album.
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darkeningday
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:54 pm 
 

I'd probably place it second only to Lateralus, although I find that album somewhat overrated and Licks & Leeches sounds like a Slipknot song. The first four tracks on Fear Inoculum are all scorchers, one knockout after another, with many passages where the riffing and guitar tone reminds me of Melechesh. Sadly, the album breaks the winning streak with the plodding Culling Voices and I can't say 7empest was as strong of an album ender as it needed to be, especially with that lame solo about 2/3rds of the way through.

Invincible might actually be their best song to date? Who'd have thought restricting yourself to prime number time signatures could produce such a gem?
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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Unorthodox
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:08 pm
Posts: 1375
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:58 pm 
 

Alright, I've listened to it in its entirety beginning to end. If you weren't a Tool from before this, don't expect this to change your mind or anything. It's Tool, albeit at their most proggy and experimental. Overall, I love this album, couldn't ask for anything more. The drumming is hypnotizing, the bass works beautifully to bridge between the drums and melodies, while bringing a melodic pulse to a lot of the songs. That's something I find so fucking unique about Tool- their bass isn't just a simple "back up the guitarist". A lot of time, his melodic pulsing drives the songs all the way through, creating a soothing undertone that adds a feeling of warmth under the distorted guitars. Maynard once again delivers great vocal parts, almost an icing on the cake, but this icing is absolutely splendid- seriously, how does this guy think of his melodies? Really good stuff.

Right now, and this may change, the biggest stand out is Adam Jones' guitar work. He just does an amazing job following the philosophy of "less is more", not overdoing anything and bringing every note out to its fullest potential. Particularly, his work on 7empest is incredible. I feel like I'm listening to fucking modern day Hendrix when I play that song. Just very well played and also very well laid out.

In short, the wait was worth it.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 4873
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:12 am 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
If you weren't a Tool from before this, don't expect this to change your mind or anything.

I dunno about that. If you didn't like their radio rock tendencies in all their previous records they've been almost entirely excised here, with the whole album sounding like a modern prog rock/metal record but with slightly more restrained vocals.
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ambientsorrow wrote:
Pretty rubbish, I must say. Certainly not worth the hype behind it. Boring and predictable. A band for 14-22 year olds.

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