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Texas King
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 153
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 12:40 pm 
 

Do rock fans in Europe and America have different perspective on the band Whitesnake?
I'm asking this because it seems Whitesnake was successful in Europe since the beginning of their career and the albums such as Ready n Willing and Live in the Heart of the City are considered the rock classics. Whitesnake really took off in America with "1987" from the same year, when they changed their style and went into "glam metal" mode, so they were kinda nobodies in the US when they played bluesy hard rock and had two Deep Purple guys (Lord and Paice) and Moody and Mardsen in their lineup.
So in general for American rock fans Whitesnake were just another glam metal band but for European rock fans they were a band with two different eras stylistically (and both eras were successful in Europe).

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Disembodied
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:29 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:36 pm 
 

My perspective was always mostly of a glam/cock-rock band. It's kinda hard to have another perspective when your band name is a euphemism for penis.

I was meaning on checking out their early stuff for a while and finally got around to doing that earlier this year. I found their blues rock stuff unexceptional. My theory of their popularity in Europe and lack of in the US is that the Americans have a very strong history of great blues music, so a bunch of white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it there, while Europeans tend to get a bit more excited about that stuff.

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Texas King
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 153
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 5:54 pm 
 

Disembodied wrote:
My perspective was always mostly of a glam/cock-rock band. It's kinda hard to have another perspective when your band name is a euphemism for penis.

I was meaning on checking out their early stuff for a while and finally got around to doing that earlier this year. I found their blues rock stuff unexceptional. My theory of their popularity in Europe and lack of in the US is that the Americans have a very strong history of great blues music, so a bunch of white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it there, while Europeans tend to get a bit more excited about that stuff.


And since Americans were enamored with Van Halen (David Lee Roth as a frontman and VH lyrics were more of the epitome of "cock rock" than Coverdale and WS lyrics), the bolded statement is not that true.

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mr macabre
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2023 3:06 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 6:41 pm 
 

I saw WS open for QUIET RIOT before "that" record came out, and their most current record was "Slide it in" with John Sykes on guitar, and they were awesome.
IIRC, he recorded all the guitar parts on the WS album, and then left the band for whatever reason. It was so long ago, I don't remember.

Of course, I saw them on their world tour with the all-star lineup as well, and they put on a good show. That was the last time I saw them.

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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2023 7:15 pm 
 

I tend to like all eras of the band, but generally prefer the earlier blues-based material.
I've always been a sucker for that type of 'meat and potatoes' hard rock, especially when fulfilled by a talented bunch of musicians.

I'm fairly certain that the pre-Slide It In albums didn't even have American distribution until after the success of 1987.

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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 2182
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:16 am 
 

Disembodied wrote:
a bunch of white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it there, while Europeans tend to get a bit more excited about that stuff.

You must be trolling. There are of course innumerable songs in rock and other genres which are popular in the US and are on that theme.

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lostalbumguru
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:55 am
Posts: 150
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:07 pm 
 

Dembo wrote:
Disembodied wrote:
a bunch of white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it there, while Europeans tend to get a bit more excited about that stuff.

You must be trolling. There are of course innumerable songs in rock and other genres which are popular in the US and are on that theme.


I, personally, really dislike the strong sexual content of rock and metal that the boomers insisted on generating, and the rest of us took for granted over the years, to some extent anyway, so I can fully accept the need to separate the musical traits of whitesnake (very cool), and the innuendo, and thematic tendencies, lyrics etc....

I didn't know there was an Atlantic cultural divide over a band that is now basically an historical entity

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Texas King
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 153
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 12:36 pm 
 

lostalbumguru wrote:

I, personally, really dislike the strong sexual content of rock and metal that the boomers insisted on generating, and the rest of us took for granted over the years, to some extent anyway, so I can fully accept the need to separate the musical traits of whitesnake (very cool), and the innuendo, and thematic tendencies, lyrics etc....



Led Zeppelin have many cringey, sexual lyrics and it didn't prevent them from being considered "the rock gods".

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Dembo
Dumbo

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:24 pm 
 

lostalbumguru wrote:
Dembo wrote:
Disembodied wrote:
a bunch of white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it there, while Europeans tend to get a bit more excited about that stuff.

You must be trolling. There are of course innumerable songs in rock and other genres which are popular in the US and are on that theme.


I, personally, really dislike the strong sexual content of rock and metal that the boomers insisted on generating, and the rest of us took for granted over the years, to some extent anyway, so I can fully accept the need to separate the musical traits of whitesnake (very cool), and the innuendo, and thematic tendencies, lyrics etc....

I didn't know there was an Atlantic cultural divide over a band that is now basically an historical entity

Your reply isn't about what I wrote. I questioned the unfounded claim that "white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it" in the US when they might in Europe, when there are innumerable examples to the contrary. That is, such bands and songs have "cut it" in both the US and Europe.

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TadGhostal
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:31 pm
Posts: 1172
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 1:27 pm 
 

Texas King wrote:
Do rock fans in Europe and America have different perspective on the band Whitesnake?
I'm asking this because it seems Whitesnake was successful in Europe since the beginning of their career and the albums such as Ready n Willing and Live in the Heart of the City are considered the rock classics. Whitesnake really took off in America with "1987" from the same year, when they changed their style and went into "glam metal" mode, so they were kinda nobodies in the US when they played bluesy hard rock and had two Deep Purple guys (Lord and Paice) and Moody and Mardsen in their lineup.
So in general for American rock fans Whitesnake were just another glam metal band but for European rock fans they were a band with two different eras stylistically (and both eras were successful in Europe).


Not being from Europe, I can't speak to the European perspective, but I would say it is certainly true that for most Americans who are aware of Whitesnake, they are viewed as one of the quintessential big-haired glam bands of the '80s. I would venture to say that few Americans are aware of anything they have done outside of "Here I Go Again" and, possibly, "Is This Love". As someone said earlier, I'm not sure their early material was even available in the US prior to their success in 1987. If it was, it certainly didn't break through to a wide audience and I'm not even sure that a lot of the fans who discovered them with "Here I Go Again" really went back and fell for that older stuff, as it was stylistically pretty different.

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Acrobat
Eric Olthwaite

Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:53 am
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:48 pm 
 

'Live in the Heart of the City' is an exceptional live album and it's basically a continuation of MK III Deep Purple. Sure, they're not the most lyrically brilliant band ever and a lot of that stuff hasn't dated well... but take it for what it is. Bernie Marsden and Micky Moody are strong guitarists in that British blues rock tradition, Neil Murray is a superb bassist and, of course, the rest of the band are well-regarded (I wonder why?). The studio albums tend to have a bit of filler given their work rate, but certainly not to be sniffed at. I like the hair metal stuff for one main reason: John Sykes. As a metal fan, however, you'd be better off checking him out with Thin Lizzy on the excellent, excellent album Thunder and Lightning.

I think with the early albums you could just make a really good "hits" comp, which is basically what Live in the Heart of the City is.

Speaking from a Y'r'peen perspective.
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Bronze Age
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 9:13 pm 
 

I love Whitesnake's run in the 80's (all of it). Slide It In is their best album, a laser focusing of their best attributes and potential and the beginning of a what I consider a trio of their best albums. Are they really glam though?

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Disembodied
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Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:29 am
Posts: 284
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 10:17 pm 
 

Texas King wrote:
Disembodied wrote:
My perspective was always mostly of a glam/cock-rock band. It's kinda hard to have another perspective when your band name is a euphemism for penis.

I was meaning on checking out their early stuff for a while and finally got around to doing that earlier this year. I found their blues rock stuff unexceptional. My theory of their popularity in Europe and lack of in the US is that the Americans have a very strong history of great blues music, so a bunch of white guys singing about getting laid isn't going to cut it there, while Europeans tend to get a bit more excited about that stuff.


And since Americans were enamored with Van Halen (David Lee Roth as a frontman and VH lyrics were more of the epitome of "cock rock" than Coverdale and WS lyrics), the bolded statement is not that true.



Was Van Halen as bluesy as Whitesnake was in their early years? I'm not familiar enough with either of their stuff to say, always thought VH was more classic rock guitar focused though. Blues seemed to me much more reliant on the vocal charisma of the singer and I personally didn't get that from early Whitesnake as much as the American blues era music.

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Oxenkiller
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 3613
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2023 11:55 pm 
 

"Slide it In" was their first really successful breakthrough in the U.S. The 1987 album was obviously their peak, but the 1984 album was the one that really made them a big name in North America. In the U.S., People in the 80's thought of them as a decent classic rock band, same way as Led Zeppelin, sure they blended in with the glam look and sound but the connections with Deep Purple and stylistic leanings towards Led Zeppelin elevated them above bands like, say, Ratt or Poison among casual rock fans. But it's also fair to say they haven't aged well. A lot of people now look at them as sort of the "Worst of the 80's" cheezy hard rock.

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Texas King
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
Posts: 153
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:29 am 
 

Acrobat wrote:
'Live in the Heart of the City' is an exceptional live album and it's basically a continuation of MK III Deep Purple.


I agree. That live album is really outstanding and I'd recommend it to any hard rock fan who has never heard it.

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Texas King
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Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:55 am
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:36 am 
 

Bronze Age wrote:
Are they really glam though?


They went into 'glam metal' mode in the second half of the 80's and it seems they disappointed a lot of (British and European) fans with that stylistic change. But previously they were quite different, mostly bluesy hard rock.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2023 9:22 pm 
 

^I would agree with this.

I listened to the 1982 version of "Here I go Again" yesterday and it is interesting to compare it to the 1987 version: In the original, the keyboard has the classic 70's hard rock organ sound (As opposed to the more slick 80's synth sound) and the bass lines are more complex and therefore more interesting. It has a more 70's, blues rock, Deep Purple/Zeppelin feel to it. But the '87 version had more accomplished lead guitar work and seemed much slicker, and dare I say more glam-like. Especially with the production. I dunno; most people probably prefer the 87 version as it is arguably slightly more "Metal" but I think the original is actually better. (There was also a watered down singles version of the song that appeared in late 1987, with the guitar work basically spayed and neutered, that was utterly pointless and sucky, except as 80's senior-prom makeout music.)

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Evil Entity
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2023 5:31 am
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2023 7:41 am 
 

Their "Live In The Shadow of the Blues" album from 2006 is also pretty great, good mix of all eras before they started recording new music.

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Festivus
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 4:26 pm
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Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 3:45 pm 
 

I can't say I've ever noticed that. In fact, I don't know much about Whitesnake beyond their music. I enjoy a couple of their songs, but wouldn't say I care much about them overall. Haven't met many self-proclaimed fans of the band either.
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Benedict Donald
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Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:36 am
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2023 5:54 pm 
 

Evil Entity wrote:
Their "Live In The Shadow of the Blues" album from 2006 is also pretty great, good mix of all eras before they started recording new music.


Yes, that's a killer live set.

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magate
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Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2023 12:58 pm
Posts: 48
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:53 am 
 

1987: Coverdale dyed hair blonde, adopted US-style looks, and got much better production and marketing. The classics are, as initial post says, the pre-1987 albums. And, when it comes to playing live, Mistreated from the Deep Purple times, which is the song I will accept that Coverdale hit it somehow with more feeling than RJ Dio could.

So yes, in Europe I would think the early albums are what make Whitesnake great.

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Lane
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2023 11:47 am 
 

I don't think Whitesnake went glam, but certainly arena rock. It wasn't about totally sleazy lyrics or punky heavy rock sound for WS. I got into WS via 'Slip of the Tongue', and still think that's their highest point (and David's vocals!). It's just me, so don't worry; I do like more of big rock sound than bluesy thing.
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SentByTheDevil87
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2023 8:48 am 
 

In my experience, there is a not-miniscule part of their European fanbase that turned their back on the band when they went full Glam in 1987. Not that this ended up mattering in the end. Coverdale could probably live comfortably for the rest of his live with the royalties just from the 1987 version of Here I Go Again. And Coverdale himself admitted in interviews several times that he has basically closed the book on the bluesy Hard Rock era of the band. He also doesn't own the rights to these early albums, which is why they weren't part of the recent series of deluxe-edition remastered reissues or the recent series of compilation albums that Coverdale has been putting out in recent years.

I myself discovered Whitesnake through their late 80s Glam records and the two albums they put out with Doug Aldrich. It actually took me a while to really get into their bluesy stuff from before that.

Evil Entity wrote:
Their "Live In The Shadow of the Blues" album from 2006 is also pretty great, good mix of all eras before they started recording new music.

Except Coverdale's vocals were already wrecked by that point. So the mileage you get out of that live album may vary.

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