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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:51 pm 
 

And why the fuck should anyone pay attention to some crusty old Catholic fanatic's insane ramblings?
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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dmerritt
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 338
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:04 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
DBettino wrote:
You can criticize Christianity because it's the dominant religion in the West. It is seen to hold the power in the oppressed/oppressor heuristic that's been ascendant in the West since the end of WWII. You're not permitted to criticize Jews and Islam because they are seen as holding the shorter straw in this dynamic. Effectively, Christianity is us. We're allowed to attack us.


Yep! I do think its a faulty way of looking at it though because there is a difference in critiquing something on good ground and being oppressive about it. I think one should be allowed to critique any movement regardless of its size and power and of course nothing stops you juridically for doing so. Socially that's another question. Although I've found that if one is substantial and relevant in ones criticism its usually ok for most people (except those that have tunnel vision in regards to their political views - most often recognized by the tone of their voice, the bad words that they use and them being unable to control their feelings when someone says something they don't agree with).


Yes, of course it's a faulty way of looking at things. My point is that this oppressed/oppressor heuristic is a subversive mechanism that has been imposed upon us as a result of the post-WWII revolution in academia. And it is imposed upon us to such an extent that if substantial and relevant criticisms of groups typically associated with the 'oppressed' in this dynamic are brought forward, juridical censure is not really needed. You'll be kicked out of the academy and circles of polite discourse just as quickly as if what you were saying were against the law.

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dmerritt
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 338
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:06 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
And why the fuck should anyone pay attention to some crusty old Catholic fanatic's insane ramblings?


Because they're not insane. He's a man of erudition.

Your ramblings are insane, though.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 10528
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:53 pm 
 

DBettino wrote:
Because they're not insane. He's a man of erudition.

I looked him up. His Wikipedia page is scant on details (not a good sign for an "erudite" of any caliber), but does mention this:
Quote:
To his displeasure, he found this college to be what he considered to be (in the words of Michael W. Cuneo, who interviewed him) "the antithesis of what a Catholic college should be", as it was pro-choice, feminist and secular.

He made little effort to conceal his views, which led to conflicts with many faculty, his department chairwoman, and eventually the college's president. Though he was in a tenure track position, the department, which viewed him as a religious absolutist, decided against renewing his contract after his first year.

So erudite that a university kicked him out for being a fringe lunatic. Hmmm....
Quote:
Jones's work has primarily been concerned with the relationship between the Catholic Church and secular culture, particularly the effects of the sexual revolution on the Church and the culture.

Yep totally a sane, rational man~
Quote:
Later work has focused on the historical friction between the Catholic Church and Jews. In 2004, the Catholic League "condemned Jones’s antisemitism and repudiated his efforts to justify it in the name of Catholic theology".[3]

So sane that he's too fringe for... Bill fucking Donahue? lolol

Ah, but then I checked his website (nice domain name btw), where he peddles some of his articles in PDF (for a modest fee), and I found one where he conflates homosexuality with pedophilia and has charming passages from his totally sane, erudite, rational mind:
Quote:
The Vagina Monologues, as those of your who have read the article on it featured two years ago in these pages know, is agitprop for lesbianism and masturbation.

:lol: Not lesbians and masturbation! The HORROR

Quote:
Your ramblings are insane, though.

Yep, I'm the insane one. Not the guy who wrote, in some incredibly unhinged and meandering rant about Harry Potter, the following gems:
Quote:
Like narcissism, homosexuality is a function of father deprivation. The less father, the less reality.
[...]
The subsequent “desperation to fill up the empty self” brings us to the other metaphor for the homosexual as the best example of the narcissist consumer, namely, the vampire, who, like the homosexual, has been reduced to a primitive, magical form of social intercourse where he must suck parasite-like on the people he admires in order to continue in existence.
[...]
As education in England became more “scientific” it also became more “magical” because magic, although it had much in common with applied science, was the opposite of wisdom

Yes, truly, my feeble mind is probably too insane to grasp the brilliance of this brilliant scholar. :wanker:
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10812
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 8:04 pm 
 

Amazing how you can find stuff like that from almost everyone who goes the "Jews secretly run and destroy the world" way. Like David Icke. Rothschild Zionists run the world, and also, artificial sweeteners cause your brain to turn into a liquid. Like oh, okay, that Jewish world conspiracy bit sounds interesting but unfortunately it seems like you're completely retarded (possibly had sweetener in your coffee.)
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dmerritt
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 338
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:39 pm 
 

Well, I didn't do a Google search. I read three of his books, Jewish Revolutionary Spirit, Barren Metal, and Monsters from the Id, and one ebook, the one about Michael Voris that you quoted. Voris is a Catholic who runs a traditionalist news site, who criticized homosexuality and turned out to be one. Anyway, Jones is not a NY Times book review kind of scholar. He's more in line with historians like WT Walsh, so yeah he's going to have a religious perspective. But who else today is writing 1400 page books about the Anabaptist Rebellion, John Dee and Christian Kabbalah, or the conflict within Jewry going on during the German enlightenment? I mean, I'm flipping through his Jewish Revolutionary Spirit right now, reading his chapter on the Revolution of 1848, and it's absolutely fantastic stuff! And his footnotes are as long as one of his chapters. But reading him means reading someone who comes from a certain perspective. But that's where you go for stuff like this. Anybody who writes about pogroms against the Jews in, say, Poland, and conveniently leaves out their obtaining private farms through compounding loans and redirecting grain production to vodka instead of subsistence, thereby causing famine, is also not neutral. You want to believe all of that happened for no reason and anyone who says different is a crank...be my guest, I suppose. It's fucking dumb, though. You should read WT Walsh, you should read E. Michael Jones, and you should read Jews like Yuri Slezkine while you're at it, and dispense with this silly idea that there's such a thing as neutrality.

He was removed from a Catholic college for being against abortion. That led him to question the Sexual Revolution that he felt had taken over the college. He also wrote a book called Libido Dominandi. He provides an interesting example of sexual revolution as political control in the Israelis who took over Ramallah during the Intifada and broadcasted pornography on all the television stations they'd taken over to this population of young Palestinians. He asks, is pornography freedom? Were the Israelis doing this to spread freedom to the Palestinians? Or were they doing this to bring them to heel? How does that lesson apply to us? ...Believe me, if people had such an easy time dismissing him, you would have found a lot more to smear him with on your little Google hunt.


Last edited by dmerritt on Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10812
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:49 pm 
 

Ah, the chapter on the Jewry.
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dmerritt
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 338
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:53 pm 
 

The whole book's about Jewry, actually.

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~Guest 21181
The Great Fearmonger

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 3987
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:15 am 
 

Quote:
He portrays the Jewish religion as inherently treacherous and belligerent towards Christianity. He describes Jews as “outlaws and subversives [who use] religion as a cover for social revolution,” and claims that Judaism possesses “a particularly malignant spirit.” Jones also imagines the contemporary world, with its social ills, as having been cast in the imprint of Judaism, characterizing 21st-century civilization as “a Jewish world run on commercial principles.” He also identifies this “Jewish modernity” as representing “blood, the law, calculation, and hate.”In the tradition of conspiracy theorists, Jones credits Jews with orchestrating occurrences as varied and disconnected from the Jewish experience as the Protestant Reformation and the French Revolution. He also blames Jews for Bolshevism, Freemasonry, and an alleged contemporary “Jewish takeover of American culture.” Jones reaches for tenuous connections to paint “the Jews” as inherently wicked and prone to colluding openly or secretly to threaten other populations around them.Jones argues that mass killings of Jews throughout history have been understandable reactions to Jewish beliefs and behavior. He goes so far as to justify Eastern European pogroms and even the Nazi Holocaust on these grounds. As he wrote in a 2003 Culture Wars article, “[T]he Nazi attempt to exterminate the Jews was a reaction to Jewish Messianism (in the form of Bolshevism) every bit as much as the Chmielnicki pogroms flowed from the excesses of the Jewish tax farmers in the Ukraine.”


...and we're done here. https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files ... -Jones.pdf

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droneriot
cisgender

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 10812
Location: Spahn Ranch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:28 am 
 

Off-topic, but the last bit with putting the Vanguard News Network next to far-left was really awkward, the ADL certainly isn't much for writing skills.

Really hard-hitting article until it randomly started conflating homophobia with racism and anti-Semitism and far-right with far-left. Still a really hard-hitting article if you ignore the random confusion, but being randomly confused was just unneccessary to its point.
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dmerritt
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:43 pm
Posts: 338
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:11 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
Quote:
He portrays the Jewish religion as inherently treacherous and belligerent towards Christianity. He describes Jews as “outlaws and subversives [who use] religion as a cover for social revolution,” and claims that Judaism possesses “a particularly malignant spirit.” Jones also imagines the contemporary world, with its social ills, as having been cast in the imprint of Judaism, characterizing 21st-century civilization as “a Jewish world run on commercial principles.” He also identifies this “Jewish modernity” as representing “blood, the law, calculation, and hate.”In the tradition of conspiracy theorists, Jones credits Jews with orchestrating occurrences as varied and disconnected from the Jewish experience as the Protestant Reformation and the French Revolution. He also blames Jews for Bolshevism, Freemasonry, and an alleged contemporary “Jewish takeover of American culture.” Jones reaches for tenuous connections to paint “the Jews” as inherently wicked and prone to colluding openly or secretly to threaten other populations around them.Jones argues that mass killings of Jews throughout history have been understandable reactions to Jewish beliefs and behavior. He goes so far as to justify Eastern European pogroms and even the Nazi Holocaust on these grounds. As he wrote in a 2003 Culture Wars article, “[T]he Nazi attempt to exterminate the Jews was a reaction to Jewish Messianism (in the form of Bolshevism) every bit as much as the Chmielnicki pogroms flowed from the excesses of the Jewish tax farmers in the Ukraine.”


...and we're done here. https://www.adl.org/sites/default/files ... -Jones.pdf


LOL and there it is! You actually cited the ADL.

The fact that anyone takes the ADL seriously today is staggering, considering they began as a campaign to whitewash the crimes of a convicted child-murderer.

Also, this blurb is a lie. Jones has never justified any acts of violence against Jews. He promotes a Catholic teaching called Sicut Judaeis Non, which expressly forbids that. The quote about the modern world having a Jewish imprint is taken directly from a Jewish author named Yuri Slezkine! He points out the Jewish influence in the Protestant Reformation through the printing of Bibles the Catholic Church had censured, if I remember correctly. He does not say the Reformation was 'orchestrated' by Jews. He also does not say that of the French Revolution, though he goes into detail about the Knights of Jubilation as the proto-Masonic outfit that inspired it. And the Chmielnicki pogroms were a reaction to Jewish tax farming. That's not a justification, but pretty much every historian who has written about it has to deal with that fact in some respect. Reading further, it's true that he regards being anti-Jewish as a kind of Christian obligation, but he also regards the scriptures themselves as anti-Jewish, and not antisemitic. One is a religious category, the other a racial one. The Gospel of John IS anti-Jewish, so he's not wrong. I mean, having read Jones' work, I could go on, but what's the point? It's just a smear piece, and full of distortions, misquotations, and outright lies.

Oh, and...we're done here. LOL

I have this feeling that you all are Gentiles, because you go further in protesting Jewish blamelessness than the Jews themselves (minus the ADL, of course). I mean, even if you read TabletMag or the Forward, you don't see this idea of perpetual Jewish innocence.

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