Trump has actually advocated for DNA sampling to prove relatedness to reunite families once the parents have served their time. Constitutionally, we can't because it violates their right to privacy. That said, stop acting like they been givin' a death sentence. Deportation is not a permanent ban. They can reenter if they do so the legal way. And if you don't like the condition their kids are in, advocate for better conditions. If you want these places shut down, then where else are these kids gonna go. They can't go to prison, they didn't commit the crime. What? Are you just gonna let them wander in the desert and die? The hell is wrong with you people?

While I disagree that all Zionism is as aggressive as you put it you are right in that the movement is focused on a nation for Jews based on ethnicity. I think it is quite a logical step to take if one does consider oneself Jewish since their religion is a folk religion. God, the people and the promised land are the three major components. How a Jewish state would take its form have always been a matter of discussion but Judaism always had a strong sense of ethnic pride and a longing for the promised land. This is of course troublesome for the region that one people believe that a piece of land is God given to them. This is of course a large part as to why there has been so much conflict in the area (and of course adding to that with the advent of Christianity, and later Islam, who also hold the same piece of land as holy).

And yes, you are of course right in that this is, in some ways, similar to what some white separatists strive for (and separatists of different ethnicities). But isn't it interesting that when one group wants to create a state based on ethnicity it is generally praised and if another wants the same it is seen a evil?

I think this is why critique against Israel can be seen from both the extreme right and the extreme left. As for the first they are generally antisemitic and won't like Israel because of their belief in the Jewish world conspiracy. On the left they generally critique the ethnostate and the treatment of the minority Palestinian people. And of course we can also see praise from both sides. (1) Because some people would love more states created on an ethnic base and (2) those who support Israel because of the troubles Jews have gone through historically.

Funny thing about Zionism is that it's the same as Islam in a way, you can look at Ben Gurion quotes and they seem to flip flop between extremely conciliatory and tolerant and extremely aggressive and intolerant, quotes completely contradicting one another, and it's the same as in the Quran that one type of quotes was written in peace times, the other type was written in war times (the Quran is famous for that), and people who wants to promote a certain ideology only seem to know one half of the quotes and are completely oblivious to the other half. The anti-Islam people quote all the wartime stuff about conquest, the "religion of peace" types quote all the peacetime quotes. Same with Zionism, you can find a thousand quotes to support that Israel wants an equal Arab population that should not be discriminated against in anyway, and you can find a thousand quotes that all Arabs should be expelled or killed if they don't want to go, and the quotes directly correllate to the time they were written in, but in hindsight it's funny how people only see half the existing quotes if it helps them promote whatever they believe in.

Crossing the border without proper docs was a civil violation for decades in this country, it was only when W. Bush started cracking down on "illegal people," then was exacerbated under the Deporter in Chief Obama and then brought to its natural extreme under Trump that travelling without docs was considered a crime. Ever get a speeding ticket? Then you should go to prison because you committed the same kind of "crime."

DNA testing would cost far more than giving these people a home and a basic standard of living, never mind the fact the kids are likely travelling with family friends and neighbors. We can easily absorb these people, it's not like the US's social programs are any good even for the people born here. For the amount of money ICE requests for stay in these holding facilities per person, you could put these people in a Holiday Inn with catered food, yet this is the conditions they're living in. Giving them more money is asinine, nothing will change because the cruelty is the point. Hence, concentration camps.

This is a very common Zionist dodge: if someone else is a hypocrite, my racist ideology is vindicated! Of course this is also the exact same argument white racists use, saying it is hypocritical of others to praise black pride and condemn white pride, therefor Nazism is justified. Weird that even your defenses of Zionism, coming from you, someone who isn't a Nazi sympathizer or anything like that, end up mirroring perfectly Nazi talking points. You should really reconsider defending something when it forces you to make common cause with advocates of insanities I presume you totally disavow. The best way to avoid this situation is to not support any kind of ethnic nationalist ideology, Jewish or otherwise.

I honestly don't even get what point he was making. Kurds, Jews, Roma and Armenians all have a more understandable rationale for establishing a homeland than any other ethnic group (let alone meaningless and ever-changing racial signifiers like Black or White), but who's saying these are unambiguously good ideas? Outside of self-described Zionists or your Louis Farrakhan types of course.

Yes! The Quran differs quite a lot depending on which sura one reads and since it isn't published in chronological order it can be confusing in the way it jumps from the wartime suras to the peacetime suras and back. In any case I recommend anyone to read it since it's such a big key to a growing element in western societies. What many forget however is that Muslim ethical and moral practice is as much dependent on the hadiths in the sunna. These stories about Muhammed really changes the whole Muslim landscape.



I never even took a stand for or against anything mentioned. I just pointed out the hypocrisy in how some accept blatant ethno-nationalism on one side and reject it on the other. I never said a thing about me legitimizing national socialism by accepting Zionism. I did say however that people on the extreme right tends to make that argument (just like you said).

As for what I feel I general I tend to feel sympathy for separatist movements because I believe a good stable base for a country is a shared culture. So instinctively I tend to lean towards sympathy for the Catalonians, the Kurds the Flemish movement or those that wish to break free from the EU (which makes a weird case for Scotland where I can sympathize with the SNP as far as an independent Scotland goes in relation to the rest of the UK but at the same time quite dislike them wanting to be part of the EU). In the case of the Jewish people I think its really good that they have their own land, however the way they received it was handled so poorly (and we have western Europe to blame for that) and the Palestinians was forced to give it up. But then again Israel has always been a center for conflict so maybe it would still be an area filled with difficulties.

But yeah in general I put very little weight on whether the separatists are right wing or left wing. I just think any nation should ideally have their own piece of land since I think countries in general works best if they have a common language, common values, common history etc. Personally I don't put any emphasis on race but I think a strong common culture is important. If that is rooted mainly in history (where the people themselves are usually more ethnically homogeneous) or if its based on religion (creating the social glue through a common belief - which is the case in Islam and their Ummah) or if it is through a strong state (like I've heard is the case in Singapore) doesn't much matter to me.

Edit: Just to make things clear - I'm in no way well read on most of the separatist movements I mentioned. Please put an emphasis on how I use the word instinctively.

Maybe not, but yours sure is.

Dude perfectly walked right into that one!

Tory: 368
Labour: 191

Bye bye NHS, it was fun while it lasted!

As far as I know the Tories never said they would sell the NHS. Corbyn however made the claims that he had seen leaked secret papers indicating this. But has there been any actual evidence of this?

I have zero faith now that the American election next year will go any way other than a massive Trump win. The general electorate of (formerly) Democratic countries in the Western world very clearly want to be subjugated by their own evil right wing empires. It's demoralizing, disheartening, and disgusting the way that right wing extremism has just kind of taken over the world at this point, and I really don't know of any way out at this point.

Brexit is also going to lead to a very messy recession; one which Boris will pay for dearly. It’s also going to affect world markets as well. I smell another snap election if this happens. There’s your bit of silver lining.

The blood in the river Nile, the frogs and the locusts. The same prophecy, made by big banks and corporations, that would had happened on 24th of June 2016, if British people dared to voted for Brexit.

Well when you deliberately lock yourself out of markers for...well...reasons, expect some backlash. Should’ve just renegotiated policy with the E.U. or better yet come up with a European constitution.

Now comes the part where the neo-jacobins of the left try to explain how this was actually not about Corbyn at all and they would have somehow done worse with a less odious leader, and that anyway it's okay to lose as long as you remain pure and unadulterated by dissenting voices, uncomfortable truths about human behavior, or incrementalism.

Because at the end of the day that's what the left really excels at: losing by choice, and then yelling at everyone else about it.

That’s why I worried about certain factions here in the US. If you’re not purely progressive then you’re a closet Republican. Hell, some are already tarring and feathering people like Buttigieg because he just not progressive enough/too moderate. You don’t want to be too puritanical or you basically become the left version of the Tea Party. Then you snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Wake up!! The revolution can wait.

So this loss is emblematic of "the losey far left" while the 2017 stunning upset was just a coincidence? Really? Or is it because the antisemitic bullshit and the most openly hostile media to a political leader in recent history tainted the election irrevocably?


Bootyjudge is pure fucking cancer. I'd honestly put Biden over that guy. The way he blamed homophobic black people for why he has zero support among them, to obscure the actual fact that in his few years as mayor he was basically a dixiecrat to their community, was the last straw. Beyond redemption.

Well if the rumors are true and Biden is only planning to serve one term, I think he looks less scary to more lefties as they can get a progressive to run in 2024.

We’re getting off topic though.

Wow! The Tories wins an election and you speak them as evil and right wing extremists. No wonder the world is so polarized when people go so far when describing a pretty standard, and honestly quite boring, political alternative. If the Tories are "evil right wing extremists" what does that make any party beyond them? The masterminds of hells inferno and the bringers of destruction to the cosmos?

Seriously though regardless if one supports one side or another at least it will be a clear majority and the development will be stable in that way. I think the result sort of shows that even though a second referendum might have another outcome most Brits seem to be of the opinion that you have what you have and that its now better to just go through with it rather than live through all the uncertainty. Of course, as someone who supports Brexit, I hope they go ahead and leave at the end of January. And then we'll see what the actual effects will be. And I think we need to look at it long term. There is no way we can have a good analysis after a year ow two. This thing needs to settle.

I hope other countries will follow suit although I don't think they will unfortunately. As a EU sceptic the best would be for France to leave as well. Any other country (besides Germany) the EU could be without. But if France leaves I think the whole project would crumble.

You did see the Leave campaign videos that Boris supported, right?

Corbyn’s standing down as Labour leader. This sucks.

A well observed comment from an Australian journalist.

Britain's election explained. Voters chose Heidi Allen as a Conservative; Allen then defected to the Liberal Democrats. Voters chose Brexit; Allen then worked to stop it. Now voters elect Boris Johnson's Conservatives in a landslide; Allen complains: "We are in a very bad place for democracy in this country." What does she think "democracy" means?

Kensington, the constituency where the Grenfell Tower fire happened, voted Tory. Fucking. Tory.

I will be glad to see your country die off, Brits. Most people don't seem to deserve it.

I applaud the British people for voting en masse and fulfilling their democratic right. Let's hope things will go smoothly for PM Johnson.

It's a fucking atrocity.

Silver lining: Jo Swinson lost her seat and the Lib Dems are chaos.

One more silver lining: Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party won ZERO seats.

I could care less, Jeremy Corbyn is nutty, Boris Johnson is a fucking idiot, literally there's no win there. I can't imagine any decent person with half a brain and no massive amount of inheritance looking at that race and thinking there's a horse in it for them. Cool- what use to be a conquering empire is now attempting to turn into a pro-isolationist shithole that will slowly dismantle its economic prosperity. Keep calm and carry on!

Can't wait for the media apes to attempt to make a correlation between Corbyn's loss and why America "shouldn't elect a RADICAL socialist like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren". As if they're a bunch of nutjobs like Corbyn.

If he loses elections this badly then he needs to go, simple as. Truly depressing result all around, however.

Please show me the campaign videos where Boris Johnson supported "evil".



But they didn't really go in this wholeheartedly did they? I saw an interview on BBC with Farage and he was quite clear that he didn't really want the BP to gain to much votes if that risked another hung parliament.

This piece from The Independent (hardly a 'Jacobin Left' outlet) largely paints this reading as heinously disconnected from reality: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 44931.html

This exactly Folks need to relax. Dozens of non-member countries around the world have some level of Customs Union, Economic Partnership, or Free Trade Agreement in force with the EU. And dozens more have negotiated one but are waiting for legislative ratification. Britain will not be the only country inable to scrape something together.

Brexit wasn't the issue but the stance of the opposition on Brexit sure was. Had Labour endorsed Leave earlier they might have had a stronger chance at winning. But for Corbyn it seems it was a decision between a rock and a hard place since the beginning for his party. His ideological purity wasn't enough to convince voters, either. Sad fact is people these days would rather have a more apparently "competent" leader (let's see just how competent Boris will be in January, huh) than a moral and honest leader like Corbyn. I don't want to disparage all those who voted Tory as immoral sociopaths/ignorants, but I think it's less offensive than pretending they are good people deep inside and that they just need the right kind of manipulation from a proper leader who is not Corbyn to vote Labour.

I think it's fine for people to want to remain in the EU if that's what they honestly believe in. EU as a superstructure that takes away nation state independence in favour of what they think will lead to a more stable Europe. Even though I don't agree I can respect that. However the doom and gloom type people that think the UK will stand and fall with the EU I think are well out of touch. It's still a hypothetical discussion but I see no reason as to why the UK won't make this work in one way or another. And of course as someone who supports Brexit I think it will be a strength in the log run (but probably take some time before things settle).



I just recently read a Swedish article on the whole situation and the author did point to the very common thing in today's society that the media (and the voters) are very much disconnected from reality in that they rather report and surround themselves with people and opinions who they themselves like. There is a huge cultural gap.

The election was presented as kind of close but if we look at the actual numbers we could see that the Tories always had a great lead. Boris was seen as a clown and was predicted to be the PM who was in office for the shortest amount of time - ever! Instead he won the election with the largest margin since 1987. And people here talked about Corbyn as a once in a lifetime politician totally disregarding that he hasn't really had any success and now obviously will go to history as one of the worst leaders of Labour (if we base that judgement not on ideology but on number of votes).

It was the same with the Brexit vote itself. It was reported in a manner like even though it was neck in neck the remainers were assumed to win all the way through anyway. And of course the American election where media were so clearly pro-Clinton that they totally disregarded any sort of statistic. In Sweden it was almost exclusively reported that Clinton would win even though nothing indicated that that was something to bank on.

I think we live in a society where peoples minds are clouded to much on how oneself feels that we, to a larger extent than before, have a hard time to disconnect what we want with what is likely to happen.

The article mentioned can be found here:
https://www.fokus.se/2019/12/braksucce- ... VtsXlhqTuU

This is quite telling as far as Labours problems go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KawAKTrk2No

They need to unite if they want to find any electoral success.

This misses the point somewhat. UK already had the most favourable conditions with other EU countries, upon which their economy relies. Brexit takes an axe to that, and it could be several years before agreements are reached which allows the UK economy to operate in conditions approaching anywhere near current levels. And why? Muddled thoughts on immigration and sovereignty. Of course other countries who have never been in the EU can survive and thrive outside the EU. But the UK will have to undergo a painful transformation to become one of those countries.

It does surprise me a bit, that voters are sticking with the anti-EU message. The sheer, naked cruelty of the British regime over the last decade is there for all to see; their ability to persuade the very people they are crushing underfoot is morbidly impressive.

Anyway, here's to Irish reunification, Scottish independence, even Welsh independence, and ultimately... an English revolution (that last one might take another couple hundred years though)

Since I'm a proxy voter (not residing locally), my mum asked if I wanted her to draw a penis on the voting form. I asked for some sample drawings, but the standard really wasn't high enough for me to voice my opinion appropriately.

Does the UK release voter demographics? Seeing those could paint a clearer picture as to just how the Tories won.

Typically older people vote, typically younger people can't be bothered.

On a turnout of 67% ? The Tories wton because Labour were / are led by a pub bore Leninist, the LibDems by the least sincere person since David Cameron's PR man, and the Scottish Nazi Party don't actually appeal to everyone north of Berwick.

Corbyn is a lifelong social democrat, but keep trying.