That's been another part of his problem - the clever intellectual nuance ? Totally lost on the masses. They actually had some really good policies this time around - I voted Labour, and my ward returned a Labour MP. Unfortunately, he himself is the very model of the bloke in the pub that bores your face off about the politics of the drip tray under the bitter.

"Scottish Nazi Party", really?

Also, let's hope that Johnson is the politician who breaks up the union. That should be his epitaph.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/ ... s-sturgeon

What a group of babies. There was a referendum in 2014, which failed- being unsatisfied with democratic procedures isn't a valid reason to waste so much tax money.

Hmmm, what could have possibly changed since 2014? Honestly, Scotland's wishes should be respected rather than having them press-ganged into a deal made by a government that they have rejected.

He's just going to ignore Wee Krankie & the gang, he said as much yesterday. There will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth in Edinburgh, but he's not going to break up the country for the sake of her career.

And yeah, it's a reasonably common nickname amongst people that aren't too fond of them, their zealots, and the whiff of blood and soil that follows them around, especially when they get agitated.

Care to back this up? Whether you support them or not, the SNP are unashamedly pro-immigration.

I think these sort of things are difficult. Obviously the game plan has changed massively with Brexit. On the other hand what worth does a vote have if we go back on it, or hold another one if we are not pleased with the first results? Especially in these cases where one vote could, potentially, lead to as many new elections as needed before the people "vote right". Its easy to stay in a union but once the step has been taken to leave it is way more definite and a new vote to rejoin is almost out of the question.

All this being said, while I am opposed to the EU project I do sympathize with Scotland in that they would like to break free from Westminister. I don't share their want to remain in the EU but one point of decentralization is that the people in the nation are closer to the decision making and if the Scots have a majority who wants to remain in the EU so be it. I think national sovereignty is the most important thing even though, in my view, they also give that up in many ways by remaining in the EU (if it comes to that).

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=123221&p=2877129#p2877129

Doesn't matter who you are opposed to, Scots voted to remain in the EU in the Brexit referendum and as always England says their vote doesn't count, England makes all the decisions for them. Ironically and extremely hypocritically what the English accuse the EU of, they are the ones most guilty of what they point the finger at the EU for.

But I think that's only step one of the hypocrisy, I think you can count on Boris to escalate it further and that if Scotland votes for independence, he'll try to block it and say referendums (is that the proper plural) on leaving have no legal value. Dismiss it now and claim I'm talking out of my ass, think back of this post when he ends up doing it.

I'm not opposing what you write here. I'm sure Boris will try to block a second Scottish vote for independence. Remember, I'm not particularly fond of the Tories and I'm not a supporter of them. I like the result of the vote because I'm pro-Brexit not because I'm pro-Tories. In the case Westminster tries to stop Scottish independence I will stand firmly on the side of Scotland. As I said before, for me the most important thing is sovereignty of the individual nation states (and in the longer run communes, geographical areas etc). My loyalty lies more in the principle of self rule than it does in any political party.

Of course, he's campaigned on delivering the "will of the people" and now the public must realise that specific will must serve the likes of Johnson and Mogg. A greater irony is that Johnson won the vote of constituencies in the North that will be fucked even harder by Tory austerity now, especially seeing as how - unlike Scotland - there's no specific parliament looking out for them.

lmao. "EU bad cuz too much control from the globalists, but UK dominion over its borderline colonies is way good."

Zionist logic, folks.


https://twitter.com/ChrisQ_1/status/1205562768952381440
Sure they SAY they're okay with immigrants and refugees, but some of them might be Muslim which makes them antisemitic which means they're Nazis!

It's not all bad for the left though. Now that Sinn Fein got their foot in the door, we'll have to wait and see. But now that Corbyn's out I think the best significant party in the UK is the SNP.

I agree with everything you’ve said about Scotland. I wouldn’t be caught dead voting for the SNP. However, the principle of self-determination is more important than my view that the Scottish Nationalist Pantomime are doing it all wrong. Well okay, not all wrong. At least they believe in enforcing maritime borders against the Common Fisheries Policy. But politically, simply swapping London for Brussels is not nationalism. And culturally, a vague halfassed sentiment of un-Englishness is not nationalism. Hell, I understand more Gaelic than Sturgeon does! Despite all that, I wish her success in getting a referendum done.

Maybe you forget that England gives money to both, Scotland and EU.

Considering it is completely irrelevant to a post about political power, yeah you're probably right that I forget a different unrelated subject. I also forgot to talk about motorcycles, marsupials and the Power Rangers.

All members of the EU pay money into it - what's your point?

And please do explain the point of your other claim. England gives Scotland money in the same sense that any capital 'gives' money to provinces: control of the UK economy is held in London. England 'gave' money to every other territory the British dominated.

england gave money to india, then india pays them back by revolting the ungrateful bastards!

They're still holding out for those back taxes here and a refund for all that tea... the long-suffering English people... gonna have to keep that upper lip good and stiff.

Boris! Boris! Boris! Get over it millennials.
No one wanted communism in a cardigan Corbyn.

True enough. But now the question becomes: does anybody like Boris for any other reason than Brexit? One trick pony politicians tend to have short shelf lives, even if their one trick is a really big one.

The point is England gives more money than takes back, from both the subjects in question, Scotland and EU. So England has the right to point out at the bureaucrats of Strasbourg and wanting freedom AS WHOLE UK from the EU. It is not the same with the situation that Nicola Sturgeon trying to put.



https://www.gov.scot/news/government-ex ... d-2018-19/



Yes, it was appropriate on the part I emphasized in your quote at the previous post. But nevermind.

Deplorables: Trump, Brexit and the Demonised Masses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afMofYie4Lc


I think is relevant for this thread and for the "Trump one".

Yes you emphasized a part about political power, ignored it after emphasizing it and talked about something completely unrelated and irrelevant. "Oh but the money" is not a counterargument to a point about political power, it's an unrelated subject.

Besides, if your vote means nothing but you get money for it it's okay for you? That's your understanding of democracy? I'd prefer not to be paid off for being unable to meaningfully vote and I'd rather just be able to meaningfully vote. Actual democracy will always be better than a Putinist caricature of it.

The bolded bit might already have raised your eyebrows.

GERS is a political project, started in the 90s when the Tory government were fighting against devolution - the goal is to make Scotland appear as a dependent economy. Its methodology is much criticised, and it is generally recognised that it tells us nothing about future circumstances where England and Scotland could make different choices.

They do the same thing with Wales and N. Ireland. Go along with these people and you'll be believing that these 3 countries - 16% of the UK population - cause more than 3 quarters of the total deficit.

Note that there is no GERE.

All these discussions seem like from another lifetime, though - that last post is 2014 all over again. Now that this sideshow of the last half year or whatever is finally out of the way, we can start to think again about how Brexit will actually affect people.

It's still either no deal or a capitulation to freedom of movement, etc. I said previously I expect no deal, and I still lean that way, but who knows. Johnson has proven to be immune to fact-based criticism, even more so than his predecessors, so maybe he will just accept whatever the EU request and play it up as a victory to his supporters. Fuck knows...

I wonder if British people, especially younger people, will enjoy the same rights I did. I along with other British immigrants are waiting to hear on how our respective governments will handle our situations. In NL we're all young taxpayers; in Spain it's pretty much all retired folk. Don't think we'll all be treated the same way!

I did post a few links & media stuff via google, but actually don't want to argue about this lot on a music forum, sorry

Ah yes, "anyone to the left of Hitler is a commie!" Razor sharp political analysis if I've ever seen it.

I didn’t mention Hitler you did. Congratulations Mr Godwin, how to lose the argument.

Anyone to the right of Ghengis is a Commie, you doodle.

Now fuck off back to pre-school.

There was an argument?

say what you want about Humpty Dumpty, but he gets results...

"EU Parliament approves Boris Johnson's Brexit deal, paving the way for the UK's departure on Friday"
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexi ... ay-1379554


"Britain's Brexit Party leader Nigel Farage shows his Union Jack socks during the final parliamentary session with the UK MEPs"

At last Brexit Day is here, the will of the people executed. Roughly 3 1/3 hours from now, I'll be enjoying these to celebrate the fulfilment of that will after the attempts of some to ignore and subvert it.

Nice! I’ll be lifting a tumbler of Glenmorangie - my ancestral scotch, as a descendant of the Ross clan

It almost feels unreal. I was quite sceptical that the referendum would be followed up upon especially with the post referndum anti-Brexit campaigning and all the mess that followed within both Labour and Tories. But the day is here, just hours away, and you will once again be a free country deciding your own fate. And it is only now that we'll see if all the doom and gloom prophesies will actually become real or if, as I suspect, you guys will do absolutley excellent on your own.

If things turn out well my hope is for other countries to follow suit. The most likely candidate in this if-scenario (of the major countries) might be France. That would end the EU as we know it.

I hold no hope for my country, Sweden, to have any courage in something like this. We are not brave enough to even threatening to leave.

Hey don’y beat yourselves up Innes You folks in Sweden were at least cautious enough of the super-state project to hold onto your national currency. That’s something!

Done Deal. U.K. out of EU officially. Democracy wins again.

Congrats to The U.K. for taking their self control back from Brussels!!!!

I also can see this be the start of a wave of departures from the E.U. perhaps.

And just gotta say, damn does Sweden pump out some awesome music. Three bands that come to mind are Hammerfall (seeing them in Sept!) Witchcraft (incredible band) which I recently discovered and Sorcerer also a great band which I recently started listening too.

Mixed feelings on my part. It's nice seeing a pillar of capitalist world order begin to crumble, but it is being driven by the most shameful possible motivation of nationalism (definitely the dumbest of all the major political ideologies). Personally, I don't think either the EU or the US are going to play with kid gloves in future bi-lateral trade negotiations because this is too perfect an opportunity to extract more demands from what will now be a much more Jr trading partner. Hopefully all the regular folks will weather whatever is to come comfortably.

Same, dude, same.

Nothing wrong with nationalism, glad that the majority of the folks in the U.K. seem to agree with that.

The U.K. will be fine, they are a tough bunch, don't need the "guiding hands" of the E.U. to be successful.

Great day for democracy today!

Nationalism is just a bunch of mystical mumbo jumbo imo, might as well convert to Islam. Same difference.

Ethnic nationalism is an outdated ideology that only exists in the modern world as a socially-approved mental illness. It is inherently about dehumanising people who are not deemed part of a nation. To argue that the Leave campaign as it manifested itself was based on anything other than ethnic nationalism is willful ignorance. I hope Tory boots taste good, UK.