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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4578
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:24 am 
 

Social democracy isn't socialism, it's welfare capitalism, although I think it's our best shot in terms of what's actually possible to achieve in the current system right now. I'm all for true socialism though, or something more like anarcho-syndicalism/anarcho-communism, because yeah bad things often happen when there's a concentrated powerful elite at the top, even if they have nice ideals (--even if they have nice ideals and stay true to them, they're still gonna have a hell of a time prospering in the global marketplace, not getting crushed by imperialist capitalist countries like the U.S., which is what happens to every country that tries to go socialist). That might mean it needs to be a global movement. Hard to envision that happening, but it may be necessary if we don't all want to die from climate change.
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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:16 am 
 

Anarcho-communism? mmmmm. Aren´t those concepts opossite to each other? Anarchism --> total lack of any kind of state, comm. --> huge state that owns everything, even liberty.
I don´t think Cuba has been doing ok, at least until Fidel died, don´t know now really. And Denmark is not socialism, at all, they have economic freedom. And by the way the PBI from Denmark is 10 times the GDP from Venezuela, thats why they can afford that state size.
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caspian
Old Man Yells at Car Park

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:02 am 
 

Communism- the workers owning the means of production, and the withering away of the bourgeois state.

Shits me to tears when people use a term they have absolutely no idea about. But on a friendlier note, Kropotkin's Conquest of Bread is a great book about anarcho-communism, a classic for all sorts of reasons, and it's extremely easy to read too. The first few chapters in particular are really easy to read and very inspiring. Perhaps give that a look :P


Denmark has super high tax rates man, so yeah, whatever "economic freedom" means, it gets muddier and muddier and increasingly nonsensical the more you talk about it.
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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:33 am 
 

Show me an example where communism is what that definition say it is. In theory all systems are perfect, but when they come to practice... they just don´t work. Capitalism has the same problem. The key is to find the unperfect system that work better. Communism doesn´t work, every comunist country has become capitalist to some extent.
And yeah, economic freedom is a very important part of capitalism, and is denied or at least reduced in social systems, perhaps you have this freesom since you were born, so you have no real idea of what mean to have a small productive project with the weight of the state not just in taxes, but in regulations and paperwork. I respct your position, but sometimes theory doesnt fit in real world, at least here in my Country.
Oh and denmark have crazy taxes... with crazy salaries, we have crazy taxes, with lame salaries, big difference there. In Argentina, from 12 month, you work 7 to pay taxes, and the state provides nothing, lame public health, lame public education, lame oads, lame security and so on
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