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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9700
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:45 am 
 

Thought I'd make this thread to avoid cluttering the TV thread with a minefield of spoilers.

For simplicity's sake I think it's better to not spoiler-tag anything in this thread, if you aren't caught up just don't click it.

So who's watching S8? Did you enjoy the first episode? Let's go~
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Nahsil
Clerical Sturmgeschütz

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:06 pm
Posts: 4474
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:40 am 
 

I liked the first episode a lot. Excited to see what happens next!
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aloof
avant-gardener

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm
Posts: 1955
Location: never neverland, palm trees by the sea
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:51 am 
 

I expected more. thought it'd start with a nice flashback and would include some other revelation too, maybe even a death... I don't like the pacing. last season was almost entirely stage-setting, the one before that was mostly stage-setting, now this. blah blah, smarty snide remarks, reunions, at least two of the smartest people on earth, and a treatise on the dietary preferences of dragons. I nearly nodded off :/

bizarrely, I only realized the jamie/bran reunion was bound to happen last week.

let's hope next episode reveals hot pie to be the night king!
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Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1095
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:00 am 
 

It surprised me how light-hearted the whole episode felt, and I'm sure there were more jokes in that episode than the entirety of the previous seasons.
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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
Posts: 2699
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:24 am 
 

A lot happened in a low-key way. The episode had a sense of lightheartedness despite everyone knowingly facing annihilation.

Spoiler: show
The reunions were heartfelt and meaningful, especially Arya and Jon; that was a big one. Shit is gonna get weird now that Jamie returned. Jon learning the truth about his parents was a huge revelation.


Next week looks wicked. I am excited to see what happens next.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 11376
Location: Tyrn Gorthad
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:52 am 
 

Not a lot to say, honestly. It's moving where it needs to, and becoming more of a regular show. Yeah, there are people to convince and stuff, but really the only antagonist left who's an actual character is Cersei and her minions. Fairly predictable at this point: the good guys will all rally together, some people will flip sides and betray them, but the core group of allied heroes will overcome and win. We'll get some token deaths near the end, but the whole franchise has been fighting a battle of the original "anyone can die at any time!" concept and plot armor protecting fan favorites for a while now, and I assume the latter is gonna win out.
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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 5556
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:11 pm 
 

Pretty disappointing, especially given the long wait, especially given that it's the first episode of the final season.

Main issues:

- First and foremost Jon and Danny have no chemistry. That dragonflying love scene was just eye rolling and hard to watch. Jon flying a fucking dragon is a pretty big deal and I know that if it ever happens in the books it'll be a monumental moment, but here it just felt forced and rushed and unbelievable.

- Theon's rescue of Yara was waaaay too easy. Are you kidding me? Not to mention it makes Euron look like a dumbass, which he isn't, or at least we're not supposed to think he is. (Although he's a far cry from the insane genius that he is in the books.)

- Arya continues to be moody and annoying. One of the greatest characters in the books, one of the most unsatisfying characters in the show. Honestly makes me sad.

- Where is this Bronn side quest heading? If he actually goes off and attempts to murder either Tyrion or Jamie then his entire character arc is negated, and if he goes off and meets up with them and then switches sides to betray Cersei then that's exactly what we're all expecting. Can anything interesting come of this? I guess we'll wait and see.

- It doesn't feel cold enough. Seriously, winter is finally here and nearly the whole episode took place in the north. I didn't get any sense of impending frozen apocalypse. The tone of the episode seemed too lighthearted. We should have at least gotten some glimpse of the White Walkers. We need more tension - only 5 episodes to go!

Some things I liked:

- New title sequence looked amazingly great.

- The subtle callbacks to season 1, episode 1 were well done and not heavy handed. I didn't even really pick up on them until thinking about the episode after watching it. (Dany's army arriving at Winterfell mirroring Robert's arrival in the first episode; little boy running all around and climbing stuff like Bran in the first episode; Jon asking "where's Arya?" just like Cat did in the first episode)

- I guess I'm the only person in the world who likes Sansa but honestly it's refreshing hearing her try to talk sense into Jon and others. I thought the tension between her and Dany was well done and believable.

- Undead Umber child scene was good and creepy.

- Bran, who was an incredible disappointment last season, was pretty good here. I loved that little eye-contact moment with him and Jamie at the very end.

Overall a bit of a letdown, but hopefully the pace picks up after this. It pretty much has to.

P.S. Winds of Winter release announcement impending? Maybe? Maybe before the season finale? Please?

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Metantoine
Big Beautiful Famgot

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
Posts: 11762
Location: In the Rectory
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:07 pm 
 

I think it was a good first episode for the season. Everything is being set in place.

The show is as immature as I am. Here's the proof:

I was watching the episode with buddies so we crack some jokes here and there. When you see Dany's army arriving in Winterfell, I said that at least they don't have balls to freeze... and that's what thing Tyrion says to Varys!

The Euron/Cercei scene was a bit too crincy in my opinion, felt forced. Same as Bronn paying three hookers for their free nudity moment.

I really liked the Jon/Sam scene and the dead child scene, those were well done and felt like they were progressing the show.

I do agree with Razakel that it doesn't seem that cold. It should had been filmed in northern Quebec, now that's cold!
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ObservationSlave
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 1018
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:35 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
Theon's rescue of Yara was waaaay too easy. Are you kidding me? Not to mention it makes Euron look like a dumbass, which he isn't, or at least we're not supposed to think he is. (Although he's a far cry from the insane genius that he is in the books.)


Yeah I felt the same way about this scene. It came across like the writers needed Theon to rescue Yara and figured they weren't important enough characters to justify more than a few minutes of screen time. I'm not sure what I would have done differently, but it was the one part of the episode where I really wasn't buying it. I just really hope they don't have Theon go back to Winterfell and somehow find himself in the situation where he can sacrifice himself to save one of the Starks in some kind of weird attempt at making up for his betrayal to them. That would be way too predictable.

Other than I enjoyed the episode. I agree that at this point it feels like they have been setting the scene for a while now, but I think there were a lot of reunions that needed to happen and it is best to get them over with now so the last five episodes can focus on the actual story.

Separately, I actually do think the Bronn storyline is interesting, mainly because he really does have conflicting interests here. Throughout the show he has had two sides to him; one of which is a mercenary for hire that cares only about women, gold, castles, etc., but at other moments he has demonstrated loyalty and compassion for others, particularly toward Jaime and Tyrion. I think it is perfectly plausible for him to go either way in his current situation.

And lastly, I do feel like too many main characters have plot armor at this point and the sense that anyone can die at any point has mostly faded away, but I do wonder if we are still in store for some major deaths over the next few episodes.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9700
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:08 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
- It doesn't feel cold enough. Seriously, winter is finally here and nearly the whole episode took place in the north. I didn't get any sense of impending frozen apocalypse. The tone of the episode seemed too lighthearted. We should have at least gotten some glimpse of the White Walkers. We need more tension - only 5 episodes to go!

It's the calm before the storm, really.

But I can't really argue with that. When Jon was flying over that frozen wasteland, all I could think of was "must be freezing up there in that wind, and he's not even wearing a tuque, let alone a ski mask!" :P
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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RichardDeBenthall
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:46 am
Posts: 352
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:21 am 
 

I basically like everything but I thought the first episode was really good. The reunions were heartfelt and poignant when you consider all the events that have happened since. The tension between Jon and Sansa/The North is realistic and in keeping with the lore. Daenarys has always had a petulant and cocksure side to her that was bound to wind people up and it's no surprise that her Targaryan arrogance is putting off the wary Northerners. I do think that she will eventually (although probably not super willingly) step aside for Jon to rule....either that or they'll marry and do that old Targaryan thaaang.

My favourite bit of the episode was the scene with the Glover boy. Sometimes GoT gets the White Walkers right and sometimes it gets them really wrong. In my opinion they get them at their best when they portray them as being inexplicable and unpredictable. The dead boy crucified on a spiral of severed arms and legs is pretty fucking inexplicable.

If this is anything to go by, I think this series is about to get a whole lot darker.

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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 5556
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:21 pm 
 

RichardDeBenthall wrote:
I do think that she will eventually (although probably not super willingly) step aside for Jon to rule....either that or they'll marry and do that old Targaryan thaaang.


Nah, Dany's finally gonna go full-on Mad Targaryen in the final episodes and need to be put down, probably by Jon himself. I am unwaveringly certain of this.

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GTog
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:35 pm
Posts: 1028
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:15 pm 
 

Now that Jon knows his true parentage, it's going to take about 5 minutes for someone to point out that he has the stronger claim to the throne. But. he's so annoyingly honor-oriented that he won't just take it. And anyway, Dany still has dragons. They won't roast Jon outright because they can sense (smell?) his Targaryen blood, but neither are they going to be loyal to anyone who offs Dany. So if Dany exits, it's going to have to be some other way. Personally, I think Cersei having Dany assassinated then the dragons destroying Kings Landing and finally killing Cersei would be awesome.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9700
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:35 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
RichardDeBenthall wrote:
I do think that she will eventually (although probably not super willingly) step aside for Jon to rule....either that or they'll marry and do that old Targaryan thaaang.


Nah, Dany's finally gonna go full-on Mad Targaryen in the final episodes and need to be put down, probably by Jon himself. I am unwaveringly certain of this.

"Three treasons you will know: one for blood and one for gold and one for love"

First was Mirri Maz Duur, second was Jorah... third has to be Jon right :thinking:

(I know this prophecy wasn't in the show, but... yeah)
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Dungeon_Vic
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 11:00 am
Posts: 846
Location: Greece
PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:05 am 
 

Ι liked it. Liked the pace, the setting of the pieces etc. Also, at this point I don't care about the predictability of the plot, we've had so much time to think about and theorize about everything that literally any plot development will have been predicted. I guess. I only care if the unfolding of the story feels natural to the characters, even if it's totally obvious.

The one thing that bugs me is that indeed Jon and Dany have zero chemistry.

I want to see more Arya-Clegane interaction. Like, way more. And Tormund seeing Brienne again.
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Belial
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:39 pm
Posts: 866
Location: Tunisia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:00 pm 
 

I liked the episode for what it was, mostly. It's setting up for what's to come, but I'm hoping what's to come starts in the next episode already and not make us wait for some serious stuff until the third episode. It's been two years and I can no longer wait! :hyper:

My main issues:

I liked most of the reunions, but they all seemed weird in some way. Like, Arya and The Hound was so short, basically just a few words and that's it. Oh and am I the only one to think that her reunion with Jon wasn't as... warm as we would have expected? At first yes, but then she kind of questioned his loyalty, and now that he's revealed as a Targaryen, will that change anything in their relationship? In any case, "it doesn't matter" as he'd say. And this is another reason I want things to take off fast, there just isn't enough time left to show us all of the implications of this revelation on everyone else around him.

They also could have used that "dragon riding" scene (mostly the "kissing in front of the dragons" part) showing more reactions from people to seeing dragons for the first time. People haven't seen a dragon for more than a century, and the tales of Aegon the Conqueror are still alive, but I guess they have to somehow try to develop (force) that love story in order to reach whatever goal it has.

The highlight for me definitely was the Dead Ned scene. The whole thing took its time to settle in and then it paid off incredibly well. Seeing that kids open its eyes in the background and then screaming like he did was fucking awesome. I was glad to see that they could still pull off tricks like that.
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InnesI
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 1241
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:04 am 
 

Dungeon_Vic wrote:
Ι liked it. Liked the pace, the setting of the pieces etc. Also, at this point I don't care about the predictability of the plot, we've had so much time to think about and theorize about everything that literally any plot development will have been predicted. I guess. I only care if the unfolding of the story feels natural to the characters, even if it's totally obvious.

The one thing that bugs me is that indeed Jon and Dany have zero chemistry.


I agree. I just want them to pay attention this last season. The past couple of seasons were horrible in the way they totally disregarded time and space, having people show up in different places at the same time, so I hope they have crafted this season with more care. I have loved GoT for most of its run and if the final season corrects the errors of season 6 and 7 I think the perception of the series as a whole will be a lot better.

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5395
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:23 pm 
 

So they put all the non combatants in the crypts. The crypts with the dead Starks. The dead the Night King will obviously raise up. Are they stupid?

Also reading an interesting theory right now that this battle could be a diversion with a skeleton crew of the Night King and that the Night King could be sending his main force to King's Landing. So the North could win the battle at Winterfell, with some notable casualties, but find out King's Landing is lost. It kinda makes sense. The Night King wasn't shown in the final shot AND I have a feeling only a few notable characters (probably Jorah, Brienne, Theon, Missandei, Sam?) will die in this battle. It's not entirely logical considering the distance, and obviously Winterfell is a long way away from King's Landing, but they've taken liberties with these things before. And often.

If that's true, maybe episode 3 will be the Battle of Winterfell, and episode 4 will be the Battle of King's Landing, or perhaps both battles will happen in the next episode... that would explain why the next episode is the longest (at 82 minutes). In that case, the Battle of Winterfell ends up being a "success", while King's Landing is a disaster with Cersei, Euron and the Golden Company completely caught off-guard (with the Golden Company going "fuck this" and fleeing and Euron losing spectacularly). Cersei might even try to take down the undead dragon with the scorpion and fail.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9700
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:06 am 
 

I live only for the memes now.

Spoiler: show
Image


Derigin wrote:
So they put all the non combatants in the crypts. The crypts with the dead Starks. The dead the Night King will obviously raise up. Are they stupid?

Are they Starks and/or were they written by D&D?
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 5556
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:07 am 
 

Wow, that episode was brilliant! I already mentioned that I was pretty disappointed by that first episode, but this one makes me beside myself with excitement for the rest of the season. Everything and everyone seemed like their old selves again. Felt like I was watching the show circa seasons 1 - 5.

Derigin wrote:
Also reading an interesting theory right now that this battle could be a diversion with a skeleton crew of the Night King and that the Night King could be sending his main force to King's Landing. So the North could win the battle at Winterfell, with some notable casualties, but find out King's Landing is lost. It kinda makes sense. The Night King wasn't shown in the final shot AND I have a feeling only a few notable characters (probably Jorah, Brienne, Theon, Missandei, Sam?) will die in this battle. It's not entirely logical considering the distance, and obviously Winterfell is a long way away from King's Landing, but they've taken liberties with these things before. And often.


That's a lot to digest... I don't 100% buy it but the more I think about it the more I actually hope it happens. Cersei has been the wild card for me. I love/hate her and she's played the "game of thrones" better than anyone in the series (and look where it's gotten her) but I just can't tell what her role is for the rest of the series. What is she honestly planning and what does she honestly expect will happen? That turn of events would be a beautiful and spectacular sideline for her and King's Landing and would wipe her clean out earlier than anyone expected. It would also make the remaining episodes more wildly unpredictable than a decisive victory for Jon and co. next episode.

Oh and also - Bran acting as bait? Theon in charge of guarding him? Looks like we're saying goodbye to Bran next episode, folks. :(

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 5395
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:36 am 
 

Razakel wrote:
Derigin wrote:
Also reading an interesting theory right now that this battle could be a diversion with a skeleton crew of the Night King and that the Night King could be sending his main force to King's Landing. So the North could win the battle at Winterfell, with some notable casualties, but find out King's Landing is lost. It kinda makes sense. The Night King wasn't shown in the final shot AND I have a feeling only a few notable characters (probably Jorah, Brienne, Theon, Missandei, Sam?) will die in this battle. It's not entirely logical considering the distance, and obviously Winterfell is a long way away from King's Landing, but they've taken liberties with these things before. And often.


That's a lot to digest... I don't 100% buy it but the more I think about it the more I actually hope it happens. Cersei has been the wild card for me. I love/hate her and she's played the "game of thrones" better than anyone in the series (and look where it's gotten her) but I just can't tell what her role is for the rest of the series. What is she honestly planning and what does she honestly expect will happen? That turn of events would be a beautiful and spectacular sideline for her and King's Landing and would wipe her clean out earlier than anyone expected. It would also make the remaining episodes more wildly unpredictable than a decisive victory for Jon and co. next episode.

Wild speculation here, but I was thinking while discussing the episode with Morri on Discord that there could be more to this. In this episode we learn from Jon during the war room scene that if you get rid of the NK, presumably his whole host collapses. The dead go back to being dead, for instance. They made a point of mentioning that the strategy is to attract the NK and to kill him. Now in the end scene and in the previews you don't see the NK; you only see his lieutenants leading a host. The NK also has a dragon. The NK and presumably his lieutenants can also bring the dead to life. It's entirely possible for the NK to leave a smaller contingent of his host to battle at Winterfell, while taking himself and his main host to King's Landing and surprising the fuck out of Cersei and crew. There'd be questions about how they got down to King's Landing so fast, but the show has done that before.

On the other hand, Westeros is full of the war torn dead from the numerous recent civil wars. There's also a ton of dead around King's Landing, even in the harbour (from the Battle of the Blackwater, which was name dropped this episode). Maybe the NK's original host without him is at Winterfell, which totally fucks with Jon's plan of luring the NK and killing him as a way to defeat his army (interestingly, being tricked in an analogous fashion to Jaime and the Lannisters at the Battle of the Whispering Wood, which was also name dropped this episode). He'll have to defeat the whole original host without the NK's death heralding a quick victory. And I suspect he'll succeed, perhaps with some help (there's a lot of Helm's Deep parallels here). In this case, if the NK's entire original host is at Winterfell, maybe the NK took his dragon down towards King's Landing and on the way down amassed a new army of the undead from Westero's war torn dead. This new army attacks King's Landing. King's Landing is fucked, Cersei tries everything (including the Scorpion against the NK's dragon), and even sets the whole city on fire (maybe?). This would certainly explain how King's Landing in Dany's Season 1/2 (?) dream was ruined and covered in snow when she 'visited' it. Cersei is probably forced to flee into the wilderness, maybe running into the Winterfell survivors moving south. Euron probably gets fucked somehow, maybe the undead from the Blackwater come back and attack the ships, or ice freezes them in place... I dunno. He seems like he'd run (or try to run) in an instant. The Golden Company would most certainly "fuck off" the moment they would see fighting for Cersei against the NK was beyond their contract as mercenaries. The fate of The Mountain would be neat. He's already undead, so maybe he ends up being turned by the NK and killing his creator (Qyburn) before eventually being found later on and defeated by The Hound. Maybe with fire?

It would be at that point that I feel that Cersei would probably be killed by Arya with Jaime's face, presuming Jaime had died perhaps. I've always felt Maggy's prophecy was a bit weird. All of her other prophecies are given to Cersei in clear language, except for the reference that she would die by her Valonqar. Obviously that's her "little brother" which is presumably Jaime or Tyrion, but the choice of Valyrian specifically for this word could be an allusion to the Faceless Men, of which Arya is included. So in a way it's not literally Cersei's "little brother" that kills her, but a "Valyrian" form of her "little brother." It's a theory that's a bit out there, but would fit in nicely with Arya's assassin story arc. I also just don't see Jaime killing her. I see him dying to avenge Brienne's death.

Maybe with Cersei's death, too, it would have the added tragic element to it. By this point we all know Jaime is dead, and Cersei has escaped King's Landing and is lost with nowhere to go. And then she runs into "Jaime" and for a moment feels so happy and relieved to see "him" and so drops her guard. And then as she does that, Arya strangles her as Arya makes one last remark revealing her true identity.

As far as what happens with the NK? I feel that if the idea of him raising the war torn dead around Westeros is what ends up happening, there is no way that the survivors will be able to fight a conventional battle and beat them. I think this Battle of Winterfell will prove that; they might barely win but the important point is that they barely win and presumably they learn the NK has an even bigger army being made. The only way to beat them, in that case, is to take down the NK (and his lieutenants?) and thus focus exclusively on that goal. How they achieve that? I'm not sure.

Razakel wrote:
Oh and also - Bran acting as bait? Theon in charge of guarding him? Looks like we're saying goodbye to Bran next episode, folks. :(

Bran will probably survive. I'm actually curious about his endgame. Presuming he knows more than he lets on, and maybe even divulged it to Tyrion in this episode... if my theory is true and he knows the NK isn't coming to Winterfell, why would he offer himself up to bait. Also knowing that there's dead in the crypts, and presuming he knows what will happen, why would he not warn about putting people down there?

As far as people that will die in this next episode? The "Helm's Deep" of Winterfell? Very likely Theon, Jorah, Brienne and Missandei. Maybe Gilly, Gendry, and Tormund, too. Possibly Jaime in a last heroic act to avenge Brienne? Melisandre is also supposed to be making a comeback this season sometime, and while it would be corny af, I wouldn't put it past the show in having her show up with "reinforcements" made up of Lord of Light followers... but who knows.
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Razakel
Nekroprince

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
Posts: 5556
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:55 am 
 

Holy crap, Derigin, I just ate all of that up and it was delicious. My friend and I were stretching our own theories as far as they'd go after watching that episode but you put us to shame. Can't wait to see what happens!

This descending on King's Landing theory is wonderful food for thought. And I really like that interpretation of Maggy the Frog's prophecy. I love how magic/prophecy plays out in the books, and honestly that seems pretty aligned. Huh! My mind is reeling.

Are any other book readers dying to know how this kind of stuff will play out in Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring? I'm forever the optimist, but I'm seriously holding out hope for at least a release date announcement for Book 6 by the end of the year.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:17 am 
 

Razakel wrote:
Are any other book readers dying to know how this kind of stuff will play out in Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring? I'm forever the optimist, but I'm seriously holding out hope for at least a release date announcement for Book 6 by the end of the year.

Of course. I'm more hyped for this than I am for this show lol.

Hell my favourite moment of the episode was the song about Jenny of Oldstones. The song the Ghost of High Heart always wants (she was an old woods witch who was Jenny's friend). The lore behind her is really cool and full of portent too; Jenny was Prince Duncan Targaryen's wife, a commoner, and Duncan gave up his throne to be with her.

[Spoilers for ASoIaF and Dunk & Egg novellas]

Spoiler: show
Duncan was also Aegon V's son, aka Aegon the Unlikely or "Egg", who named his son after Ser Duncan the Tall. Aegon had married for love, and though he understood Duncan's heart, he could not approve of the marriage and tried to have it undone, but failed. Duncan abdicated his claim to stay with Jenny in favour of his brother Jahaerys.

Later... they (both Duncans, and Aegon) all perished in the tragedy at Summerhall, where, presumably, Aegon tried to hatch dragon eggs and caused the whole place to burn instead. :(

Interesting note: the same Ghost of High Heart (who had many visions that we KNOW came true when she told them to Arya in A Storm of Swords, including the Red Wedding, the Purple Wedding, Lady Stoneheart, a Faceless Man assassinating Balon Greyjoy (presumably at Euron's demand), had prophesized that the Prince Who Was Promised would be born of Aerys x Rhaella's line, so King Jahaerys made sure that they married.

Other fun fact: Rhaegar was born at Summerhall, during the tragedy.

Last fun fact: Jenny's fate is entirely unknown. Perhaps she even lives! Though, it's unlikely since the Ghost of High Heart speaks of her with such melancholy.

Edit: I lied here's another fun fact I just remembered: Aegon V was the one who arrested Bloodraven and... sent him to the Wall where he eventually became the Three-Eyed Crow. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu
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iamntbatman
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:04 am 
 

Yeah, I liked that episode a lot more than the previous one. Basically more of the same (i.e. lots of character reunions) but these ones felt more impactful and were just plain more meaningful to watch. The looming threat of the white walkers and their army gave the whole thing a tense tone that was missing for most of the first episode.

Derigin's theories are quite interesting and seem like very likely outcomes in a lot of these situations. I think the lack of any visual of the Night King at Winterfell was the dead giveaway there. Actually, in that last shot where they panned up the undead horse and it wasn't him, I instantly thought, "well where is he, then?" The NK on a solo mission on his dracolich heading south to King's Landing could definitely be the answer there.

Qyburn's necromantic leanings are probably the biggest "X factor" for me right now. I could see that playing out any number of ways - maybe the NK is affronted by these feeble attempts at necromancy, or maybe Qyburn and some of his minions flip sides and join the NK? Or, could be something as simple as the NK snatching control of The Mountain at some key moment and him chopping Cersei in half or something like that.

In any case, I definitely don't think we're going to get the battles of Winterfell and King's Landing in the same episode next week. I bet that entire running time is Winterfell only, and the absence of the NK will be the big reveal at the end of the episode, with a shot of him on his dracolich flying over the Blackwater. There are what, like four people of any import in King's Landing at this point? I can't see that massacre taking up very much screen time.
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Red_Death
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:51 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:14 am 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Yeah, I liked that episode a lot more than the previous one. Basically more of the same (i.e. lots of character reunions) but these ones felt more impactful and were just plain more meaningful to watch. The looming threat of the white walkers and their army gave the whole thing a tense tone that was missing for most of the first episode.

That's pretty much how I feel about the two episodes so far.

Was glad that Arya got more screen time, or if my impression is wrong, it sure seemed that it had more impact all in all. One thing that really threw me off was that seemingly all of a sudden the narrative delved into her sexuality; maybe not even delved into, but presented for the very first time, which was absolutely weird for me (and thus quite interesting). This aspect was totally nonexistent so far.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:37 pm 
 

Wanting to get laid at least once before the world ends seems like it'd be a pretty common desire tbh :lol:
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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Derigin
The Mountain Man

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:50 pm 
 

Poor Dolorous Edd :lol:
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:55 pm 
 

Derigin wrote:
Poor Dolorous Edd :lol:

He's gonna be the last man standing in Westeros. It is known.

A Storm of Swords wrote:
"We'll defend the wall to the last man," Said Cotter Pyke.
"Probably me," said Dolorous Edd in a resigned tone.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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RichardDeBenthall
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:46 am
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:24 am 
 

Absolutely loved this episode. It had that same vibe of the eve before Helm's Deep in LOTR and by the end of the episode I had totally fallen in love with GoT again and remembered why I loved all of the characters. Brienne's knighting was particularly poignant and had all these Arthurian overtones that just really got me haha.

To be a Knight!

The theories of the Night King flying not being present in the next episode is interesting although I can't help but feel that setting up Bran as bait here seems to be a bit of waste giving his import to the story?

Another really cool theory I heard was about Jorah being gifted Heartsbane by Samwell. In the lore Azor Ahai wields Heartsbane and thrusts it into the heart of the one he loves. Who does Jorah love and why did they make such pains to have that scene in the episode. For me this suggests Dani will die and will may be resurrected riding a Wight Dragon. Then either Jorah will sacrifice himself to slay her or.....he swaps swords with Jon.

Jon being Azor Ahai feels a lot more likely to me than Jorah so if they were to swap weapons, Jon giving Jorah back his father's sword and Jon weilding Heartsbane against the woman he loves...

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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:12 pm 
 

RichardDeBenthall wrote:
In the lore Azor Ahai wields Heartsbane and thrusts it into the heart of the one he loves.

Where the hell are you getting this from? Heartsbane is just the Tarly family sword. It's Valyrian Steel but in no way it is connected to the Asshai legend of Azor Ahai. That sword was Lightbringer, and if it's a literal sword, it won't be a random Valyrian steel sword from some random Westeros house.
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Von Cichlid wrote:
I work with plenty of Oriental and Indian persons and we get along pretty good, and some females as well.

Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
a fairly agreed upon date [of the beginning of metal] is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old

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RichardDeBenthall
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:30 am 
 

Apologies, I was parroting a theory I heard but a little excitedly and haphazardly. There is a solid argument to suggest that Jorah is Azor Ahai though.

There's a theory (based on one of Bran's visions in the books) that Heartsbane refers to being the "bane of the heart of winter" and that Jorah will plunge it into Dany's heart to create Lightbringer.

Personally though, after a bit more thought on the matter, I don't think it's being set up that way and I think that what might be more likely at this point is for Dany to go full Targaryan, betray Jon due to his potential claim to the throne and force Jon to slow her creating Lightbringer.

I've heard from somewhere that Melisandre is due an appearance in this series so I think she will be relevant to this tale somewhere along the line!

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Adriankat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:02 pm 
 

On the topic of Valyrian steel, I always felt a little upset about Tywin smelting down Ice. However, seeing both Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail used in Brienne's knighting ceremony made me so happy. Ice wasn't really much of a practical sword to begin with so it's good that we now have two more Valyrian steel longswords to defend Winterfell.
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Razakel
Nekroprince

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:10 pm 
 

RichardDeBenthall wrote:
There is a solid argument to suggest that Jorah is Azor Ahai though.


Is there, though? Not that I've ever noticed from the books or the TV show. I don't doubt that there are dozens of 15 minute long YouTube videos insisting that Jorah is Azor Ahai but I'd also wager that all of them are bullshit. But thinking of Azor Ahai as a literal person has always seemed dumb to me anyway; when GRRM talks about that sort of prophecy stuff, it's only really to add a layer of myth/symbolism to the narrative. So I think that in generations to come it would possible for people in Westeros to look back at this time period and see Jon Snow as Azor Ahai but that doesn't mean he is Azor Ahai, if you get what I mean.

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Cianan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:51 pm 
 

I cannot stand Jorah, despite the show giving him noble intentions and making him an honorable enough fellow, I’m ready for him to go. It might just be the actor, but every time he speaks my eyes roll into the back of my head. I highly doubt he had anything to do with that prophecy, but as noted I’m biased as hell.
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Five_Nails
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Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:34 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:32 pm 
 

Alright folks, it's almost time here on the East Coast. Let the dead come, we can beat them back!

See you after the war.
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:28 pm 
 

Well, almost nothing I predicted ended up actually happening. A bit surprised, but disappointed in a way. Disappointed that Cersei won't get to experience the full force of the white walkers.

So I guess winter has come and is now over? The south goes completely unaffected.

Otherwise, a pretty good episode from an entertainment point of view.
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Five_Nails
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:45 pm 
 

I couldn't help but get angry early on at the Dothraki charge. That was a massive waste of manpower for nothing, especially in a world where bronze and medieval battle has been fought for ten thousand years, but man am I glad that we got to see (what looked like to me) Maester Luwin come out of the crypts. I thought the Night King would have used his special earlier to kill off the women and children in the crypts so that they could help beef up his army but he was probably waiting for the cooldown to end. It seems like he's a pretty shitty necromancer if he can only do it once every couple of years unless he starts feeling up babies.

Melisandre's arc ended well enough, same with Theon and Jorah, but Dolorous Edd and Lyanna Mormont, they just didn't deserve that shit. That hurt to watch even though Lyanna Mormont was a badass killing a wight giant with her dying breath. I thought Grey Worm would be a goner before those two. Also, where was Nymeria's wolfpack? You'd think they'd go in if Bran were really connected to the Weirwood network and the stark direwolves. Maybe they're saving it for a later date and clearly Bran had a larger design in the use of his warg powers than that battle. If that battle is of lesser consequence to him, there must be an even bigger picture on the horizon for him.

Either way, like the battle at the Fist of the First men that was an off-camera epic engagement, I'm sure GRRM has far better in store when it comes to A Dream of Spring than what we just saw. Still, it was incredibly well-done and I'm glad that the sequence didn't have a bunch of dialogue moments like a Marvel flick. Instead it showed battle in a brutal and intense form. All words have been spoken and now, "no words spoken between enemies, just thunder of sword and shield."
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Derigin
The Mountain Man

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:59 pm 
 

So anyone else not really looking forward to Cersei vs. Dany, Jon and their army of 25 people?

I think the thing that sorta bothers me the most about this is that it went from a show with the idea that infantile court politics means nothing when the real threat is coming, but now that the real threat is gone it's ending with "jk the only thing that matters are silly court politics." Feels a little cheap, but maybe that was the point. I dunno.
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Adriankat
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:05 pm 
 

Pretty well directed battle episode. It was awesome seeing the living and dead locked in a brutal battle. In terms of plot though... what the fuck?

The only people whom were slaughtered in the crypt were extras. Even out on the battlefield, no one of significant plot relevance died. The biggest insult of them all is that the Azor Ahai prophecy was completely chucked out the window. I honestly thought the last Night King scene was going to be a reveal of Bran and the NK working together, but it turns out he was just waiting for Azor Ahai Arya Stark to save the day.

Personally, I'd have no problem with the NK storyline ending up in Winterfell if significant characters were lost along the way, which is what GRRM probably would've done if he'd finish the fucking books.
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Thexhumed
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:22 pm 
 

Great episode, but I have a copuple of questions:

a) Why did Bran fly as a raven, what purpose did that serve?

b) How could Arya infiltrate the white generals? Did she possess one of them?

c) What influence did Melisandre had on Arya with that final comment on the blue eyes thing? Did she just give her the idea of possessing a white general or give her some sort of power?
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