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Curious_dead
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:57 pm 
 

So before watching It: Chapter 2, I re-watched part one. It cemented my opinion as one of my favorites. Made me realize how so many horror movies focus only on horror. This one has characters doing some growing up, sad moments, humor and adventure elements. It's not just a good horror movie (although not the scariest), it's just a good movie. Although it falls into some clichéd tropes, like characters separating in the haunted house? Is there a legal requirement about that, that I'm not aware of? But at least the characters are kids, so it's forgivable.

Next Saturday: part 2, the one after probably Midsommar.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:07 pm 
 

DecemberSoul wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
I'm a HUGE horror fan.

I already have the Giallo thread going so clearly I love most movies by Argento, Fulci, both Bavas, Martino, Lado Aldo and others, and overall Argento is probably my favorite horror director.

Other than that some of my favorites include: Session 9, The Shining, Amityville horror, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Jacobs Ladder, etc.

I'm trying to think though of the stuff that isn't as well known or Giallos either because everyone mentions the same stuff and it's that kind of thing where I've just seen so many great horror movies and thrillers that I draw a blank and I'm kind of tired now so I'll come back to this but here are some lesser known ones:

Nightmares in a Damaged Brain, Maniac (1980), The Nesting, The House of the Devil, The Haunting of Julia with Mia Farrow, Squirm (1983 movie about Maggots that take over a town lol), I just saw a movie called "Patrick" the other day from 1978 which was interesting, The Sender, Eaten Alive by Toby Hooper, and now I'm just drawing a blank again so I'll come again another time and mention more.


I so hope you can tell me which older horror flick featured flying jellyfish that would attack and kill people? Saw it once on TV as a kid and have never come across it again...


Sorry I have no clue lol.

I'm sure I've never seen it cause I have a good memory.

Maybe do a google search and see what comes up?

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~Guest 322837
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:20 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:14 pm 
 

Eraserhead is my favorite movie ever, though I don't know if that really counts as a horror movie. It's pretty fucking horrific though.

Other than that, John Carpenter's The Thing, Jacob's Ladder, The Void, Day of the Dead, Hereditary

Even if a horror movie is trash I'll still enjoy it though. Just the color schemes, sounds, and wackiness of whatever tends to be on screen is enough to entertain me. But those movies in particular I hold as actually good horror movies.

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MiamiJustice
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:17 pm 
 

Eraserhead is great. I enjoyed it a lot while young. But I didn't know Jacob's Ladder was horror, because I didn't see it that way. That movie was a deeply personal drama/psychological thriller combined in one. It's weird that people are calling it horror. It's a great movie though.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 5:11 pm 
 

Yeah I've always loved Jacobs Ladder.

They did a remake but it's not that good.

I mean, it's probably more thriller than horror but the lines get blurry.

Yeah, I saw Eraserhead years back and it's excellent, as is anything and everything that David Lynch does, whether or not you quite want to classify his stuff as horror.

I'd been meaning to start seeing more of his stuff for years because the only movies of his i've seen are Eraserhead, Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway, so I finally watched all of seasons 1 and 2 of Twin Peaks and loved every minute of it and just finished season 2 yesterday.

NO SPOILERS PLEASE!!

I'm pretty confused as to what happened at the end, so next i'm gonna watch Fire Walk With Me and then Season 3 and see what happens, then I'm going to watch every movie he's ever made cause he's a genius.

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twistedknife
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Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:01 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:00 pm 
 

High Tension is a classic. My only beef with it is the ending, which didn't really connect with the rest of the movie.

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MiamiJustice
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:44 pm 
 



I just watched silent night deadly night part 2

It basically recaps the original movie, but has the little brother go on the same rampage as deadly santa that his older brother did.

You can even watch most of part 1 through part 2 hahaha. There's almost no point in watching part 1 if you watch part 2.

Anyway, the killing spree scene is amazing. He literally goes up to some guy taking out the garbage and says "GARBAGE DAY" and shoots him. That is one of the most hillarious scenes in movie history.
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Last edited by MiamiJustice on Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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~Guest 322837
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:27 pm 
 

hell yea love all the Lynch appreciation in here. Just recently watched all of Twin Peaks myself and what a ride that was, not quite horror though.

Blue Velvet is more of a thriller but that's another David Lynch movie that I found pretty horrifying. One character and a couple scenes in particular really captured the dread of being around someone extreme violence and abuse.

Silent Night Deadly Night 2 is a prime bad-good movie. That killing spree is just unforgettable. Also that part where he dodges a car is downright impressive. Not to mention the movie ends with him trying to murder a nun in a wheelchair if I remember right.

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MiamiJustice
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 1:58 pm 
 

Blue Velvet is my favorite David Lynch movie. I guess you can call it horror if you want, but it's mostly a drama/thriller that's oscar worthy.

Horror movies are about killing and gore. In horror movies, there has to be realistic death scenes with the actual murder scene being caught on camera, instead of the camera turning away or only showing the face while the body gets cut up etc.

Realistic murder scenes are abundant in 80's horror slasher movies, where you actually see the point of impact.

The best movie with this point of impact factor is Blood Rage. But then again, the movies Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead (think near the ending), show tons of this impact. Fingers being cut off is one of the tell tale signs of a seriously good horror movie...very few slashers have it, but the ones that do are brilliant (See Edge of the Axe, one of the great horror films of all time).

Maniac is one of my favorite horror movies that captures the death impact but also contains a really sinister serial killer plot and character.

It's not just about cheese and murder, in fact, I just watched a movie called sledgehammer, and this movie is terrible. The camera slows down for all murder scenes (it's one of the lowest budget movies you will ever see, and is definitely not good-bad, it's just a bad flick). Slowing down the camera for murder scenes is just silly and doesn't work.

There also has to be a plot. Horror movies need exposition, but it can't be too much plot, because then the horror movie becomes boring and essentially becomes a drama or thriller movie, or some crap like that.

The plot cannot overbear or overshadow the sinister killings of the slasher. But if there is too little plot then the movie becomes too cheesy.

Horror movies are all about director technique, and excellent special effects. It's a technical craft. You need good realistic actors too and most of the 80's slashers have good acting.
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~Guest 322837
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:34 pm 
 

Maniac! How could I forget that one.

That movie also has this really eerie depressive tone that makes it really work. It felt really sad following this loser serial killer around everywhere. I really loved that movie, I need to watch again some time soon. It's sad Spinell never got to make his sequel before he died.

also that shotgun headblast, unforgettable.

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MiamiJustice
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:09 pm 
 

Besides that great movie, the Maniac Cop series was really good. Did you see that? 1 and 2 are both great movies that really advocate cigarette smoking (The main characters smoke in every scene practically). The murder scenes are not as great as other slashers, but it's really about the overall plot of a serial killer cop going on a rampage. I would call it a great horror/action, but it's not really scary. The Maniac Cop series is a must see for good action and good bad movie cheese.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:00 pm 
 

wraithlike wrote:
Maniac! How could I forget that one.

That movie also has this really eerie depressive tone that makes it really work. It felt really sad following this loser serial killer around everywhere. I really loved that movie, I need to watch again some time soon. It's sad Spinell never got to make his sequel before he died.

also that shotgun headblast, unforgettable.


Yeah, I just saw that movie for the first time the other night and thought it was excellent and Spinell is just REALLY creepy and does a great acting job. Something about the way he looks just creeps you out.

I was reading about him afterwards and it seems that they aren't even quite sure how he died because some think it was heart attack but he also had drug and alcohol problems and very bad asthma so he could have had a fatal asthma attack and also he was a hemophilliac so could have bled to death.

An aside, but most probably know he was in Rocky as Rocky was his hired thug before he fought Apollo. I knew right away i recogized his face and then figured it out.

The shotgun blast scene is INCREDIBLE, and also it's used as the soundbite for the beginning of one Mortician song off of "Hacked up For Barbeque".

That movie has so many good scenes. The scene where he kills the girl on the bed at the end and acts at first like he's not going to is freaky, along with the one where he kills the girl in the train station.

That was just an all around really excellent horror movie.

A bit of movie trivia is that John Wayne Gacy wanted Spinell to play him in a movie, and he would have done great at it IMO.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:07 pm 
 

MiamiJustice wrote:
Blue Velvet is my favorite David Lynch movie. I guess you can call it horror if you want, but it's mostly a drama/thriller that's oscar worthy.

Horror movies are about killing and gore. In horror movies, there has to be realistic death scenes with the actual murder scene being caught on camera, instead of the camera turning away or only showing the face while the body gets cut up etc.

Realistic murder scenes are abundant in 80's horror slasher movies, where you actually see the point of impact.

The best movie with this point of impact factor is Blood Rage. But then again, the movies Dawn of the Dead and Day of the Dead (think near the ending), show tons of this impact. Fingers being cut off is one of the tell tale signs of a seriously good horror movie...very few slashers have it, but the ones that do are brilliant (See Edge of the Axe, one of the great horror films of all time).

Maniac is one of my favorite horror movies that captures the death impact but also contains a really sinister serial killer plot and character.

It's not just about cheese and murder, in fact, I just watched a movie called sledgehammer, and this movie is terrible. The camera slows down for all murder scenes (it's one of the lowest budget movies you will ever see, and is definitely not good-bad, it's just a bad flick). Slowing down the camera for murder scenes is just silly and doesn't work.

There also has to be a plot. Horror movies need exposition, but it can't be too much plot, because then the horror movie becomes boring and essentially becomes a drama or thriller movie, or some crap like that.

The plot cannot overbear or overshadow the sinister killings of the slasher. But if there is too little plot then the movie becomes too cheesy.

Horror movies are all about director technique, and excellent special effects. It's a technical craft. You need good realistic actors too and most of the 80's slashers have good acting.


I actually don't totally agree with you about all of this.

i don't think that horror movies HAVE to be all about killing and gore, in fact, I kind of subscribe to the Alfred Hitchcock way of thinking that if a movie can be truly scary without it actually having all that much gore then you know it's truly scary.

Not that i don't love death and gore lol, i do, and horror movies do IMO have to have SOME actually killing that is shown, but i find that my favorite horror movies are USUALLY those that have at least some very scary aspects that aren't related to the killing, whether it's music, scenery, plot, acting, etc.

Obviously there's also a difference between "slasher" and horror, with the former being a subgenre of the latter.

But I'm also a HUGE fan of creepy thriller movies.

It's just that there are a considerable number of movies i could probably think of given the time that are quite creepy that don't have all that much gore.

To be honest, while i like the gore, I don't always love the movies that are entirely 100% based around blood and guts, particularly the newer ones. For example, movies like Hostel and Turistas were effective in getting me to cringe from all the gore, but I didn't really want to watch them again...partially i guess cause sometimes the super realistic gore can even get to me a bit (though i like to test my limits and generally enjoy it), but also cause i found that minus the gore, there wasn't really al that much substance.

That's why I really love movies by Argento because they are super weird and creepy, or even though Lynch isn't that much a horror director, his stuff as well.

One movie I love that i was just thinking about was Wes Craven's Serpent and the Rainbow about the guy who goes to Haiti and researches the voodoo drug that raises zombies from the dead, and it has Bill Pullman who is one of my all time favorite actors.

It's not such a scary movie, but it's a good example of one of the kinds of horror movies or thrillers that I like.


Last edited by Ill-Starred Son on Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:11 pm 
 

Oh, I also just saw "Driller Killer" from 1979 where this guy living in NYC goes crazy and starts killing everyone with a power drill hahaha.

Very good movie and captures the feel of NYC at the time with some focus on the punk scene of the era, good camera work showing the seedy side of late 70's NYC, etc.

It reminded me that I want to go back and rewatch the Toolbox Murders (original) which I remember being good. I saw the remake but didn't like it much.

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MiamiJustice
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:10 pm 
 

I just watched it too. I thought it was alright. The death scenes for '79 are pretty good, because I was expecting much worse from a 70's movie (Of course Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Suspiria, and Dawn of the Dead are exceptions to this rule).

Have you seen Drive in Massacre? The death scenes are brutal but even look cheesy. That was a pretty good 70's horror movie.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:24 pm 
 

MiamiJustice wrote:
I just watched it too. I thought it was alright. The death scenes for '79 are pretty good, because I was expecting much worse from a 70's movie (Of course Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Suspiria, and Dawn of the Dead are exceptions to this rule).

Have you seen Drive in Massacre? The death scenes are brutal but even look cheesy. That was a pretty good 70's horror movie.


No I haven't seen Drive in Massacre.

See honestly, I think 70s horror is some of the best horror, perhaps even the best era for horror, but it's very close between that and 80s.

I really don't care that a lot of the death scenes weren't as realistic, I think that 70s horror was really creative and there's just so many excellent horror movies from the 70s, and I mean, if you like early 80s horror it's not like there's THAT big a difference between what they could do in say, 81' and 5 years earlier in 76'.

Have you really not watched a lot of 70s horror?

If not, you should give more of it a chance.

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MiamiJustice
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:57 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
MiamiJustice wrote:
I just watched it too. I thought it was alright. The death scenes for '79 are pretty good, because I was expecting much worse from a 70's movie (Of course Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Suspiria, and Dawn of the Dead are exceptions to this rule).

Have you seen Drive in Massacre? The death scenes are brutal but even look cheesy. That was a pretty good 70's horror movie.


No I haven't seen Drive in Massacre.

See honestly, I think 70s horror is some of the best horror, perhaps even the best era for horror, but it's very close between that and 80s.

I really don't care that a lot of the death scenes weren't as realistic, I think that 70s horror was really creative and there's just so many excellent horror movies from the 70s, and I mean, if you like early 80s horror it's not like there's THAT big a difference between what they could do in say, 81' and 5 years earlier in 76'.

Have you really not watched a lot of 70s horror?

If not, you should give more of it a chance.


That's gnarly that you like 70's horror bro. Tastes differ here. I just prefer the more realistic death scenes from 80's horrors and overall vibe, especially better camera technology. Dawn of the Dead was 70's and is one of my favorite movies.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 4:07 pm 
 

I don't think calling 80s horror "more realistic" than 70s horror is a particularly accurate statement.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:39 pm 
 

MiamiJustice wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
MiamiJustice wrote:
I just watched it too. I thought it was alright. The death scenes for '79 are pretty good, because I was expecting much worse from a 70's movie (Of course Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Suspiria, and Dawn of the Dead are exceptions to this rule).

Have you seen Drive in Massacre? The death scenes are brutal but even look cheesy. That was a pretty good 70's horror movie.


No I haven't seen Drive in Massacre.

See honestly, I think 70s horror is some of the best horror, perhaps even the best era for horror, but it's very close between that and 80s.

I really don't care that a lot of the death scenes weren't as realistic, I think that 70s horror was really creative and there's just so many excellent horror movies from the 70s, and I mean, if you like early 80s horror it's not like there's THAT big a difference between what they could do in say, 81' and 5 years earlier in 76'.

Have you really not watched a lot of 70s horror?

If not, you should give more of it a chance.


That's gnarly that you like 70's horror bro. Tastes differ here. I just prefer the more realistic death scenes from 80's horrors and overall vibe, especially better camera technology. Dawn of the Dead was 70's and is one of my favorite movies.


Yeah, I like horror from all different eras and styles, as well as thrillers and some sci-fi.

I just judge each movie on its' own merits.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:42 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
I don't think calling 80s horror "more realistic" than 70s horror is a particularly accurate statement.


I'm not sure I do either.

I mean, the two decades are close enough together that depending on which years we're comparing I think if certain scenes from certain movies are more realistic it probably has more to with the producer and director having a higher budget to work with and just the overall skill and intention of the director, crew, etc.

It's when we get to eras that are 2-3 decades apart that i notice the bigger difference, but that being said, sometimes i don't need a movie to look more realistic for me to like it better.

That's just one aspect that honestly could work for or even against the movie IMO.

There's so many factors that go into whether or not i like a movie or a particular scene.

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jimbies
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:39 am 
 

Just chiming in on the David Lynch discussion earlier.

David is my favourite director. Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet are both in my top 10. I find both of them extremely scary for totally different reasons.

While I do find a bit of humour in the character of Frank Booth (some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is truly funny), he, to me, is the greatest villain of all time. The first time I saw the film in 2000, it was about 2 or 3 in the morning, and it was on television. I believe I was doing some primitive web-design, and wasn't really paying attention. And then THAT scene happened where Frank enters Dorthy's apartment for the first time. I was horrified and captivated at the same time.

I saw Mulholland Drive the day it was released on DVD. I went to my neighbourhood blockbuster video right after work to rent it. I remember I watched it and Vanilla Sky the same night, so I didn't start Mulholland Drive until after midnight. I feel like Lynch used the early jump scare perfectly. The story itself was creepy/uneasy enough, but setting that scare up early on made things even more tense.

Eraserhead scared me a bit the first time I saw it as well. I wouldn't consider any of Lynch's films Horror, but I would consider them Nightmare films. Have y'all ever seen Inland Empire? If that isn't a cinematic nightmare.....

Like I said in an early post, the thing that scares me the most in cinema, is seemingly ordinary people acting bizarre of completely irrational.

Having said that, Psycho didn't scare me so much, because you could tell right off the hop, Norman Bates was creepy and weird. Where as a film like "Funny Games" still kind of haunts me. (again, this was another film that used a very early and unexpected jump scare to put you on the edge of your seat).

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Curious_dead
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:59 am 
 

Yes, I saw Inland Empire in theatres. I really want to re-watch it at some point. I remember it was weird and twisty, calling it "nightmare" feels appropriate. Yeah, not really "horror" by any standard, but it makes you uneasy like few movies outside of the horror genre can.

Same with Mulholland Drive and Eraserhead. I'll need to re-watch those too at some point.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 3:10 pm 
 

I just saw "Don't Look Now" from 1973 last night and really liked it.

I won't give any spoilers but it's one of those thriller type horror movies with very little blood or violence till the end yet it's still creepy.

That's the thing about the line between thriller and horror and where i disagree with some people: I often love violent gory scenes but I need more than that a lot of the time in my horror/thrillers to REALLY like them.

I want a movie to be engaging and have elements that are creepy and thought provoking other than the murders. I want something to think about after the movie is over other than just the gore and death. i want symbolism that was hidden in the movie and concepts that don't occur to me till later on when i think about the movie in more depth and read about it. I want a good sound track, good cinematography, editing, artwork, use of color, and obviously preferably character development, script, story and acting, though the truth is that many of my favorite horror movies and Giallos lack good acting or character development in favor of visual and audio elements but that's sometimes ok too.

Hitchcock used to say that a TRULY effective horror movie should be able to be scary without the gore and i SOMEWHAT agree.

It's ok that SOME horror movies are dependent on it, and it's IMO a very necessary element to have SOME blood and death in movies, and obviously for certain also excellent types of horror which i love it's mostly about that which is also ok.

But i ideally want a well rounded movie that has some very creepy elements aside from the death and gore, and that's where people like Dario Argento or, despite being entirely different from him, directors like David Lynch and David Cronenberg come in.

I want to be on the edge of my seat not only because of blood and guts but because of other creepy and unusual elements in the movie.

But i equally love different genres of horror or thrillers or even sci-fi.

It makes sense that some will be mostly or entirely about the gore, others mostly about being slow-burn thrillers or others about the music and cinematography. They are all good and different genres, but i like a good mix, and to be honest, sometimes i like thrillers MORE than horror, but i just love all kinds of movies really.

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Luvers
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:00 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...but it's one of those thriller type horror movies with very little blood or violence till the end yet it's still creepy.

That's the thing about the line between thriller and horror and where i disagree with some people: I often love violent gory scenes but I need more than that a lot of the time in my horror/thrillers to REALLY like them.
It could be that I am perhaps too literal but I have always identified thriller more with excitement or action, a thrill ride if you will. Horror is not supposed to be fun; when someone is watching the news or a documentary on something horror, they do not label that story as comedic, dramatic or romantic (and intelligent people would also NEVER label it pornographic), they would label it horrific. Horror should be uncomfortable to see, it should make you despise the villain, detest the horrifying scenarios. People experience different emotions in daily life quite readily but the one emotion most people do not experience as often is fear. The word Horror literally means: Feelings of fear, terror and dread. So for me the best horror will be story based, focusing on the scenario and finding the horror that exists in all of the grooves, valleys and cracks of the canvas.

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...Hitchcock used to say that a TRULY effective horror movie should be able to be scary without the gore and i SOMEWHAT agree.
And he would have been right .... back when he said it. This post of yours is likely 60+ years removed from that comment he said. I am not inherently disagreeing with Hitchcock, at all, but what scared people in 1960 will not scare people in 2020, at least not on the same level. Not even close in fact. Every aspect of story telling in films have moved on from when Hitchcock dominated the big screen. The reason the Exorcist was so ..."scary"... in 1973 was because the majority of the population believed there actually existed a little bald man with red skin, tail, forked-tongue and a pitchfork. 47 years later and most people see the supernatural for what it is: Brain bending stupidity marketed to brainless people for cheap jump scares and story telling that is beneath even that of Blues Clues.

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...It's ok that SOME horror movies are dependent on it, and it's IMO a very necessary element to have SOME blood and death in movies, and obviously for certain also excellent types of horror which i love it's mostly about that which is also ok.
Maybe I am missing something but I only know of one horror film in history that has a zero body count and that was April Fool's Day in 1986. Good movie by the way. I think most people identify the word horror with death so every horror film will be 'dependent' on it, much in the same way metal music depends on distortion and double bass percussion.
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:24 pm 
 

Luvers wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...but it's one of those thriller type horror movies with very little blood or violence till the end yet it's still creepy.

That's the thing about the line between thriller and horror and where i disagree with some people: I often love violent gory scenes but I need more than that a lot of the time in my horror/thrillers to REALLY like them.
It could be that I am perhaps too literal but I have always identified thriller more with excitement or action, a thrill ride if you will. Horror is not supposed to be fun; when someone is watching the news or a documentary on something horror, they do not label that story as comedic, dramatic or romantic (and intelligent people would also NEVER label it pornographic), they would label it horrific. Horror should be uncomfortable to see, it should make you despise the villain, detest the horrifying scenarios. People experience different emotions in daily life quite readily but the one emotion most people do not experience as often is fear. The word Horror literally means: Feelings of fear, terror and dread. So for me the best horror will be story based, focusing on the scenario and finding the horror that exists in all of the grooves, valleys and cracks of the canvas.

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...Hitchcock used to say that a TRULY effective horror movie should be able to be scary without the gore and i SOMEWHAT agree.
And he would have been right .... back when he said it. This post of yours is likely 60+ years removed from that comment he said. I am not inherently disagreeing with Hitchcock, at all, but what scared people in 1960 will not scare people in 2020, at least not on the same level. Not even close in fact. Every aspect of story telling in films have moved on from when Hitchcock dominated the big screen. The reason the Exorcist was so ..."scary"... in 1973 was because the majority of the population believed there actually existed a little bald man with red skin, tail, forked-tongue and a pitchfork. 47 years later and most people see the supernatural for what it is: Brain bending stupidity marketed to brainless people for cheap jump scares and story telling that is beneath even that of Blues Clues.

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
...It's ok that SOME horror movies are dependent on it, and it's IMO a very necessary element to have SOME blood and death in movies, and obviously for certain also excellent types of horror which i love it's mostly about that which is also ok.
Maybe I am missing something but I only know of one horror film in history that has a zero body count and that was April Fool's Day in 1986. Good movie by the way. I think most people identify the word horror with death so every horror film will be 'dependent' on it, much in the same way metal music depends on distortion and double bass percussion.



I think you are misinterpreting several things I'm saying, but others we may disagree with.

First off, others may have a different interpretation of what "thrillers" are, but i don't see them as action movies, I see them as sort of somewhere between horror and drama, with potential action in there.

For example, I have heard others refer to American Psycho as a thriller movie, and I'd agree even though it has a lot of killings and death, calling it horror doesn't seem quite right. I'd probably also call it dark comedy.

I'd also call some David Lynch movies thrillers, I'd probably call Get Out by Jordan Peele more thriller than horror, though possibly not "Us". I would call Jacobs Ladder a "thriller", and I love that movie, but some call it horror.

So that is how I see thriller/suspense.

It's DEFINITELY not just action movies.

No, horror is supposed to be scary of course. I never used the word "fun". But it can be more "creepy" or suspenseful at times than just blood and guts. There's all different types of horror and thrillers and I love the blood and guts ones a lot of the time but i also love the ones that give you something more to think about.

Just because there's other aspects to think about doesn't mean it's not horror.

I also NEVER EVER said there should be zero body count.

Horror totally needs a body count. Hell, i even think thrillers do, but i'm just saying that while I often totally love the horror movies that are all about death and gore, i mean i watch them constantly, I also want something to think about and some other elements to the movie that are creepy and possibly keep me guessing as to what will happen other than only guessing how the next person will be killed.

Also, if you find the paranormal in movies to ALWAYS be "Brain bending stupidity marketed to brainless people for cheap jump scares and story telling that is beneath even that of Blues Clues" then we couldn't POSSIBLY disagree more as i think there are lots of BRILLIANT movies with paranormal elements that are really good and creepy.

i love the paranormal and have always been fascinated by it.

I just think that ideally the best and scariest of movies have something about them that is also scary beyond the murder scenes, blood and guts. I like it if there is something in the movie that actually provokes EXISTENTIAL DREAD. Something that makes us think that about either our own mortality or just something that makes us feel like this world we are in in the movie is a truly frightening one.

I am saying that while i love movies that have lots of blood and guts, that a lot of my favorites have more going for them than ONLY that.

For example: Session 9 has lots of blood and death, but it's also inherently creepy cause it takes place in an adandoned mental institution. Suspiria is creepy because of the colors, scenery, camera angles and music but it has death. Don't Look Now was creepy to me because of the motifs and the underlying focus on the guilt of the main character which eventually comes back to haunt him at the end. Lynch's movies might not be horror but they are creepy cause, as one poster mentioned, characters behave irrationally and everything is just so bizarre. The Shining is creepy not only for it's death scenes but because of Kubrick's way of shooting the overlook hotel. And I'm equally a fan of horror, thrillers and sci fi going back to the 1960s and earlier all the way up to the present.

I just like my horror to ideally have some elements that get my attention other than just the blood.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:48 pm 
 

The Haunting of Hill House may very well be my favorite horror thing of all time, with its wonderful use of horror imagery both subtle and overt while weaving a sobering tale of a fragmented family. I loved all the characters, I loved the jumping back and forth through time, "The Bent-Neck Lady" could very well be one of the best episodes of television I've ever seen...but that's where we hit the problem. It's a TV show, not a movie. So it doesn't really count. But I felt it was important to mention, anyway.

As far as proper horror movies go, some of my favorites include...
- The Silence of the Lambs. This is probably cheating, as the question of whether it even counts as a horror film is a matter of contention among many horror fans, but I feel like it has enough horror elements to be counted. It's gritty, it's tense, it's got top-notch performances from terrific actors, and so many of its scenes are downright iconic. A standout crime-horror film.

- Oculus. For many of the same reasons I love The Haunting of Hill House, really. Same director, similar story about a family being brutally and fatally fractured, and the then vs. now time jumps. I really love the ambiguous nature of the film, where you're left wondering if the evil mirror truly was some kind of cursed artifact or if the family really did just go crazy. It's a brutal and intense film that I love going back to.

- The Conjuring 1 & 2. As far as your standard haunted house movies go, I feel like these films are as good as it gets (The Changeling is solid competition, though). They very effectively sell the aesthetic of the time period they take place in, and offer some wonderfully spooky set pieces alongside eerie stretches of quiet dread. An easy choice for when you just want to have a spooky good time.

- The Shining. I simply love how every element of this film is designed to make you uneasy and uncomfortable, from the impossible hotel layout to the slightly uncanny performances to the positively alien soundtrack--it's all great. The oppressive, menacing atmosphere of the hotel all throughout the film, even when it's supposed to be inviting, combined with some truly visceral and horrific imagery make it an enduring classic for a reason.

- An American Werewolf in London. We need more werewolf movies. This is the best one, and we need more like it! Enough said!

- Paranormal Activity 1, 2, 3, and The Marked Ones. As creepy as The Blair Witch Project was, I feel like the real pinnacle of found-footage horror lies with this series, whether it be the more immersive and believable first two entries, or the more story-driven and emotionally-attaching entries in #3 and The Marked Ones. I was actually hesitant to see The Marked Ones because of how awful #4 was, but it turned out to be my favorite of the series. Weird how that happens sometimes.

- Candyman. I did not like Hellraiser at all. It felt too cold, too clinical, too detached, and thus gave me no reason to care at all about what happens. Candyman is the polar opposite--it's extremely personal, relatable, and has the human element that I felt Hellraiser lacked. I was completely sucked into Helen's plight and journey, and let it be known the world over that Tony Todd is a legend. I'm looking forward to the reboot that's coming out, but it's got one hell of a tough act to beat.

- The Thing (1982). Dread, paranoia, and some of the best VFX in the entire medium? Yes, please! I usually roll my eyes at films that rely heavily on gore because it almost always feels like a cheap way to shock or horrify the audience, but it works exceptionally well here--solidifying the fact that this creature is so completely alien to us in every way. I love these kinds of pot-boiler stories where tension rises with every passing moment, and The Thing is a masterpiece of that kind of storytelling.

- Return of the Living Dead. I usually really, really hate these kinds of schlocky horror-comedies, but my brother watches this movie every year and, a few years ago, roped me into watching it with him. Before long, it was obvious this wasn't your typical schlocky zombie movie--most zombie movies completely forget about the humanity inherent to its monsters, whereas Return places that fact front and center. By making them more humanized, the zombies in Return are more terrifying for it. Also, I gotta say, the moment when Tarman happily bites into Suicide's head filled me with almost as much joy as Tarman was feeling.
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Luvers
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:50 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
I think you are misinterpreting several things I'm saying, but others we may disagree with.
Really? I did not believe I was. My intention was to further the point you had made about films needing more than just blood and gore. Perhaps if I had stated from the outset that I agreed that you would have maybe read my words in a more happy angle.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
First off, others may have a different interpretation of what "thrillers" are, but i don't see them as action movies, I see them as sort of somewhere between horror and drama, with potential action in there.
I stated that I believed I might be too literal. I did not mean that thrillers were action movies, I meant that they are horror as a canvas but the brushes used to bring the picture to life is not usual horror aesthetic.
- In my first post of this thread I made a point that I felt The Terminator was a horror film first and I stand by that. Cameron said he wanted to emulate the works of John Carpenter and wanted to do his own take on the unstoppable killing shape, (i.e Michael Myers). So he wrote, in a big way, a Halloween type setting (that was the canvas), then he began to paint said movie mostly without a horror aesthetic, but with guns, explosions, 80s purple lasers and breakneck exposition.
  1. The villain is an unstoppable killing machine that exists only to kill a target.
  2. The villain is identified with a music score that consistently plays anytime he is on screen. The musical cue representing a beating heart.
  3. The main protagonist is a female. Literally the Final Girl.
  4. The killer is put down by the films hero, only to return to said violence with the start being a dramatic and unnatural sit up.
  5. The climax of the film sees the villain brought down to expected conclusion, only to reappear and continue its pursuit, despite the excessive damage taken.
  6. The film ends on a bleak and depressing note.

The ending where the Terminator rises up from out of the flames of the truck was literally the germ of the franchises iconic look. That metal endoskeleton surrounded by burning flames was what James Cameron had a horrifying fever-induced nightmare of. If a person is trying to make a film out of a HORRifying image seen in a HORRifying nightmare, I believe it is safe to say he is making a HORRor film.
- Now while I have undoubtedly just described a horror film, I doubt anyone would compare its take on horror the same as Halloween. That is because while Halloween is a slow moving horror film, the Terminator is an action packed horror ride. Since I have used the analogy of a roller coaster previously, comparing Halloween and Terminator would be like comparing, respectively, bumper cars with the Sheikra. One is objectively more THRILLing than the other.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
....I would call Jacobs Ladder a "thriller", and I love that movie, but some call it horror.
That is fair, I too love Jacob's Ladder. I will even admit the twist ending got me, VERY FEW films have ever shocked me with their endings but that did.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
No, horror is supposed to be scary of course. I never used the word "fun". But it can be more "creepy" or suspenseful at times than just blood and guts. There's all different types of horror and thrillers and I love the blood and guts ones a lot of the time but i also love the ones that give you something more to think about.
I never meant to imply that you meant fun, that was more of a generalized remark mixed in with the direct response to you. I agree with you however, my two favorite horror films are, according to people here, nothing more than blood and gore, but I can just as easily enjoy a horror film with next to no blood and gore, in fact I normally prefer them.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Just because there's other aspects to think about doesn't mean it's not horror. ... .I also NEVER EVER said there should be zero body count.
I understand that and I never wrote that you did. I believe I even began that statement with the declaration that I might have misread your words.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Horror totally needs a body count. Hell, i even think thrillers do, but i'm just saying that while I often totally love the horror movies that are all about death and gore, i mean i watch them constantly, I also want something to think about and some other elements to the movie that are creepy and possibly keep me guessing as to what will happen other than only guessing how the next person will be killed.
I agree completely. I enjoy films where the director allows for the surroundings to play equal parts in the story. Something as simple as the dank feel of a room could make all the difference in a scene. I always try to praise a director for giving a great looking film but as I have stated numerous times in the movie thread, I will always prefer a film that has low production qualities but a riveting story than I would a film with thrilling blockbuster production qualities but a humdrum story.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Also, if you find the paranormal in movies to ALWAYS be "Brain bending stupidity marketed to brainless people for cheap jump scares and story telling that is beneath even that of Blues Clues" then we couldn't POSSIBLY disagree more as i think there are lots of BRILLIANT movies with paranormal elements that are really good and creepy.
Really? I obviously have not seen every horror film and have seen even less paranormal films but brilliant? Really? You might take offense to me comparing it to Blues Clues, however that TV show was geared towards at least teaching young children basic learning skills, it exists to make its target audience smarter, paranormal horror films have literally been working to make its target audience dumber.
- My first post here I explained why I thought the Exorcist 3 is amazing, and I will expand on that. I have always been fascinated by Crime Scene Investigation, despite being acutely aware it is not as dramatic as shown on CSI and the like. For this reason, and my youthful affinity for crime mysteries, I am a big fan of procedural stories and The Exorcist 3 is a Murder Mystery primarily, supernatural horror secondarily.
Because the mystery is so compelling it makes the supernatural scenes like this significantly more palpable, especially when you consider that if you did not know there was a paranormal bent, you would think it was just another ruthless murder by an unknown (but real) assailant.
The scenes with Brad Dourif as the Gemini Killer are show-stealing and while I love George C. Scott, none of the "story" would have worked if it had not been a Priest possessed. Having Jason Miller reprise his role as Damien Karras and then become the embodiment of evil is just so much more brutally fascinating then if not.
- - The story of the Exorcist 3 is literally about a group of evil spirits - demons - possessing the dead body of Father Karras and trapping his soul inside so that this man of God has to watch the unspeakable evil inflicted upon the innocent by the soul of a ruthless and genius level insane serial killer.

Know what makes that movie scary to me? First, it does not belittle the audience's intelligence. Second, the characters all act like real people and make relatively smart decisions throughout. Third, the descriptions of the victims are brutal and vivid but are virtually never shown. The way Scott describes the murder at 1:21 - 2:22 is so shocking and appalling that this film would have gotten an X rating.

But most importantly, it was that Blatty wanted the antagonist to either win or it be ambiguous. Almost every paranormal horror film I have ever seen spends more time building up its jump-scarey-way-too-obviously-evil-to-make-not-running-away-stupid villain that they forget the protagonist is who we should be seeing the story through the eyes of. Further issue this act brings is if you make your villain seemingly unstoppable you are forced to commit to laughable inanity like waiting for the dramatic music and high speed wind blowing effects so you can shout its name at it. Being that can walk through solid objects, wisdom of the millenniums, and bend space and time is then thwarted by the pesky English language? If you think I am kidding here, that is EXACTLY how the big bad monster in The Conjuring 2 is killed off.

A film based on real events that are fascinating and one of the few examples of real life 'paranormal events' that are completely unexplained by officials who witnessed some of the occurrences. How are these moments portrayed? With laughable inanity. Valak is the name of the demon in the grimoire Lesser Key Of Solomon, where he is described as an angelically winged boy riding a two-headed dragon, attributed with the power of finding treasures. How does this 'masterpiece' of a film portray him? As a stupid ass nun.

How does the Exorcist 3 portray its demons? As ruthless pieces of havoc wreaking mayhem who could never be defeated, feel remorse, pity or fear from its enemies and simply wants to inflict as much devastating psychological damage it is possible against humans, especially since we are incapable of ever truly stopping them. THAT is how you execute a supernatural horror film, you basically forgo the happy ending and accept the nihilism of said scenario.
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
I am saying that while i love movies that have lots of blood and guts, that a lot of my favorites have more going for them than ONLY that... And I'm equally a fan of horror, thrillers and sci fi going back to the 1960s and earlier all the way up to the present... I just like my horror to ideally have some elements that get my attention other than just the blood.
I would agree with all three points, so I am not sure why this seemed like a disagreement. Both types of horror can be good or bad, I would NEVER write off a film for having too much violence, realistic or not.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:12 am 
 

Says movies about the paranormal and supernatural are geared toward dumb people, defends the dumbest mainstream horror franchise of the last 20 years...
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Razakel
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:41 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
Says movies about the paranormal and supernatural are geared toward dumb people, defends the dumbest mainstream horror franchise of the last 20 years...


Took the words right out of my mouth :lol:

I had no fucking idea that Saw fans this zealous even existed.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:25 pm 
 

Some paranormal movies are bad and some are great.

Suspiria, The Shining, The Amityville Horror, and several Argento, Fulci, Mario Bava, and Wes Craven movies have paranormal elements and are excellent IMO.

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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:37 pm 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Some paranormal movies are bad and some are great.

[...] The Amityville Horror [...] are excellent IMO.

Ummmmm...
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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:46 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Some paranormal movies are bad and some are great.

[...] The Amityville Horror [...] are excellent IMO.

Ummmmm...


Everyone has their own tastes.

I've always been a fan of the Amityville horror, and also note that I put "IMO" at the end of the sentence...

I assume you'll like some of the movies I like and won't like some that I like, and vice versa.

No skin off my back if we don't like the same horror movies.

Some people here have mentioned liking the Paranormal Activity movies which I think are beyond atrocious. I also can't stand The Blair Witch Project or The Ring but many people like those, and I also think Scream is sub-par yet it was very popular.

Argento is probably my favorite horror director, along with Fulci in 2nd place, but there are so many others.

Do you like any of their movies?

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true_death
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:39 am 
 

I forgot to include Don't Look Now in my listing on the previous page. Fantastic movie, many will indeed consider it more of a "thriller" but to me it's closer to horror.

Has anyone mentioned Lake Mungo? That one really fucked with me...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:51 pm 
 

A move that disturbed me quite a bit in my childhood was 1983s the Entity.

From the Wiki:
Quote:
The Entity is a 1983 American supernatural horror film directed by Sidney J. Furie, and written by Frank De Felitta, who adapted his 1978 novel of the same name. The film stars Barbara Hershey as a single mother in Los Angeles who is raped and tormented by an invisible assailant.

Like the novel, the film is based on the 1974 case of Doris Bither, a woman who claimed to have been repeatedly sexually assaulted by an invisible entity, and who was observed by doctoral students at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Despite being filmed and planned for a release in 1981, the movie was not released in worldwide theaters until September 1982 and February 1983 in the United States.


I believe what bothered me so much is that it was based off of actual events. I was already watching horror movies and this was the scariest movie I had seen up to that point. Had some sleepless night after this one as a child.

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:33 pm 
 

last_eulogy wrote:
A move that disturbed me quite a bit in my childhood was 1983s the Entity.

From the Wiki:
Quote:
The Entity is a 1983 American supernatural horror film directed by Sidney J. Furie, and written by Frank De Felitta, who adapted his 1978 novel of the same name. The film stars Barbara Hershey as a single mother in Los Angeles who is raped and tormented by an invisible assailant.

Like the novel, the film is based on the 1974 case of Doris Bither, a woman who claimed to have been repeatedly sexually assaulted by an invisible entity, and who was observed by doctoral students at the University of California, Los Angeles.

Despite being filmed and planned for a release in 1981, the movie was not released in worldwide theaters until September 1982 and February 1983 in the United States.


I believe what bothered me so much is that it was based off of actual events. I was already watching horror movies and this was the scariest movie I had seen up to that point. Had some sleepless night after this one as a child.



I'll have to check this out.

We could practically also have a separate running theme for movies that scared us as kids cause that's so common and I always find that interesting to look back at what scared me when i was young.

One movie which freaked me out when i was younger and which i re-watched a couple years ago and actually still found kind of a little creepy and disgusting and VERY weird is a movie from 1982 called "Xtro".

Back when I was a teenager and first got my driver's license in the late 90s one of the first things i did was go to my local video store (the good old VHS days) and rent literally every horror movie they had (that was also the same time i could rent R rated movies by myself) and i watched all of them and Xtro, along with one of the Mondo Cane movies which i've still been trying to locate to no avail) was one of the only 2 movies which i actually couldn't bring myself to finish because it creeped me out.

It's one of the original "video nasties" which was banned in England and it's REALLY bizarre about a kid who's dad gets abducted by aliens and he comes back and teaches the kid weird "extra-terrestrial magic" which the kid uses to do all kinds of messed up stuff.

It was released shortly after E.T. so they used the moniker "some extra terrestrials AREN'T friendly" to play off of it lol.

It's pretty fake by today's standards and not all that gory but it's just plain WEIRD as hell. Never seen a movie like it.

This is it.

Tell me this shit doesn't look weird as hell to you: https://youtu.be/kjEmbIUcsxA


And this is a trailer for the re-released edition with new features and also one of the sequels of which there were a couple, all of which i'd like to see: https://youtu.be/NKWTkjowE38

When I re-watched it years back i was drunk and high lol, so I actually still have that foggy childhood memory of how it looked. When the time is right i'll watch it again.

Another movie which kind of creeped me out as a young kid was this one called "Squirm" from 1976 about a town in the south that is taken over by maggots.

I've rewatched it a few times since and it's not at all scary but it is enjoyable: https://youtu.be/fvlohQWDKR8

Does anyone older else who was born in the 70s or 80s remember, I think it was on TBS, a show hosted by Grandpa Munster every week where they'd show horror movies?

Cause that's how i saw Squirm and a whole bunch of old horror movies as well as Godzilla and king kong movies as a kid and it was pretty much my introduction to horror.

Does anyone know what that show was called?

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 1:44 pm 
 

AWESOME.

Here's Eli Roth on Squirm and how he met the star and they actually filled ENTIRE ROOMS WITH WORMS for the movie!!

None of it was special effects.

Must have been pretty disgusting: https://youtu.be/3xxVdwP3vvM

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~Guest 2944
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:01 pm 
 

I saw a great one the other night, on a friends online streaming channel Phantom of the Paradise. It can only be described as a mix between Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park and the Rocky Horror Picture Show, starring Paul Williams.

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Zurbum
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:35 am 
 

For David Lynch's fans, this guy gives his interpretation of Twin Peaks, and it's mindblowing :)

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Ill-Starred Son
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:17 pm 
 

Zurbum wrote:
For David Lynch's fans, this guy gives his interpretation of Twin Peaks, and it's mindblowing :)


I saw that online the other day and was thinking of watching it because i just recently watched all of the first 2 series of Twin Peaks as well as the movie "Fire Walk With Me", but I chose not to out of fear that it might give away certain spoilers from season 3 which i haven't yet seen.

Does it give away any spoilers from season 3?

Also, does anyone know how i can watch season 3?

I have cable as well as netflix and an amazon prime account and also shudder but its not on any of those and the only way i saw that i could see it was with a showtime subscription which i don't have and i don't really want to pay more money now just for one season of 1 show, but i'd do it if it was cheap enough.

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Zurbum
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 7:10 am 
 

Ill-Starred Son wrote:
Zurbum wrote:
For David Lynch's fans, this guy gives his interpretation of Twin Peaks, and it's mindblowing :)


I saw that online the other day and was thinking of watching it because i just recently watched all of the first 2 series of Twin Peaks as well as the movie "Fire Walk With Me", but I chose not to out of fear that it might give away certain spoilers from season 3 which i haven't yet seen.

Does it give away any spoilers from season 3?

Also, does anyone know how i can watch season 3?

I have cable as well as netflix and an amazon prime account and also shudder but its not on any of those and the only way i saw that i could see it was with a showtime subscription which i don't have and i don't really want to pay more money now just for one season of 1 show, but i'd do it if it was cheap enough.

Yes, he talks in details about Season 3. I don't know where you can find it..well at least if you want pay for it lol

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