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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 9576
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:15 pm 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Subrick wrote:
Ah, the joys of living in America, where the only options are a ghoul or an even worse ghoul, all of whom fail upwards into greater and greater positions of power and influence.


There is another way.


Moving out of the country to somewhere less broken.
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I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:23 am 
 

If it makes you feel any less bad, and it shouldn't but schadenfreude can be a guilty pleasure in these dire times, the chuds are every bit as lost, dejected and morose as anyone on the left right now.
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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 309
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:40 am 
 

Unorthodox wrote:
Totally hear you. People like you are the ones that FDR empathized with in the 1930's that helped create the new deal/social security/etc. Without the intense labor movements pre WWII, FDR wouldn't have gone down in history as one of the more progressive presidents in history (ignoring racial injustice via interment camps, that was clearly a fucked thing). I think the difference between a guy like Biden and a guy like Trump is that Biden will potentially throw stimulus and healthcare in your face because of the voices of dissent while Trump would throw a gun and an attack dog in your face. Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic like I always am, but I certainly could never see Biden saying some shit like "when the looting starts the shooting starts" or "LAW AND ORDER".


Dems are basically capitalistic whores are just too coward to recognize they are in the same boat as Reps, at least in keeping things as they are because they like it and fuck everyone else. Reps are basically inhuman scum but they don't even hide it.

Biden has 2 options: be another capitalist whore who doesn't give a flying fuck about people OR actually be a fucking decent president and work for the people regardless if he does it because he actually cares - which I think he doesn't - or because he's not that imbecile and will figure out that doing at least something well for people will give him another 4 years in the office and the chance to consolidate his party within the public opinion. Option 1 will end pretty badly for everyone.

People NEED to ask themselves: what they have done for us, really? (whatever side you're on). When people finally take the answer by heart (hint: it's fucking NOTHING) is when this class struggle will move into a real territory.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29058
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:45 am 
 

Biden could do some good things but so far the best we've gotten is better pandemic policies than Trump. The bar is on the floor. He hasn't been there that long but I'm just not convinced he'll go all the way for meaningful change. Peoples' memories are short. I believe it was AOC or someone else who said if peoples' lives don't feel different in 2024, well, then we could get another Trumpian populist candidate. The winning parties seesaw back and forth every few years like clockwork. I think Biden and his team have had the weight of what needs to happen impressed on them - there's a lot of expectation. I'm just not sure this guy is going to do much more than play politics as it always was.
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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:07 pm 
 

Hey, y'all wanna read the absolute worst new piece of legislation you'll read all month? Well, I present to you the Reasonable Republican™ minimum wage increase bill put together by Tom Cotton and Mitt Romney.

Image

It's basically just a trap for undocumented workers while still paying poverty wages that will be even more out of date by the time they come into effect, as well as ensuring continued financial disaster for millions due to the whole "Wages will not be increased during the pandemic" line. There's basically no shot of this becoming law right now, but I fully expect it to when the next Republican presidency and full Congress happens should Biden and co. not pass their own minimum wage increase before that happens. Considering the notorious ineptitude of the Democratic Party to accomplish anything substantial while they do have control, this is way more likely to become a thing than any $15/hr wage increase.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 428
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:23 pm 
 

I thought we's all agree that the $7.25 per hour minimum wage was outdated and needed an increase. Why are conservatives so clingy to their below-average minimum wage?
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Subrick
Metal Strongman

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 9576
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:32 pm 
 

Because less money for us means more money for them, even though they already have absolutely gargantuan, obscene amounts of money already. Even the $15/hr increase will accomplish little to nothing, as that would be staggered over half a decade and be functionally worthless by the time we get to $15. Remember that the whole Fight for $15 thing started just under a DECADE ago, when $15/hr actually would have been a substantial minimum wage. Nowadays a substantial, meaningful minimum wage would be $25-$30/hr, but that will never happen.
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Earthcubed wrote:
I'm just perpetually annoyed by Sean William Scott and he's never been in a movie where I wasn't rooting for his head to sever by strange means.

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Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 1041
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:32 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Because less money for us means more money for them, even though they already have absolutely gargantuan, obscene amounts of money already. Even the $15/hr increase will accomplish little to nothing, as that would be staggered over half a decade and be functionally worthless by the time we get to $15. Remember that the whole Fight for $15 thing started just under a DECADE ago, when $15/hr actually would have been a substantial minimum wage. Nowadays a substantial, meaningful minimum wage would be $25-$30/hr, but that will never happen.


It will never happen if we come only as supplicants to the ruling class and their tame political dogs, begging for the scraps we need to survive. But, if we build mass movements of the working class, if we (re)build robust institutions of worker power, if we come before our rulers in unity and solidarity, as a united front grown strong as a tangible force in society, prepared and able to demand what is ours by right, anything and everything will become achievable. We can and must continue to apply pressure from within the system, but the most important thing is that we build outside the system and build against the system. It has been done before. It is how we got a minimum wage in the first place. It is how we got the 8 hour day and the 40 hour week. It is how we got social security and the provision of employer healthcare benefits. It is how we won the legal right to unionize. It is how we have in the past obtained every single concession that the ruling class has ever yielded to workers, and we can do it again.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:16 pm 
 

I felt some energy at the initial BLM protest I was at last summer after George Floyd was killed - that kind of thing could be translated into a working-class thing potentially. Part of me just wonders if the capitalistic garbage and propaganda have made it too difficult for people to rise up. I hope I'm wrong.
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Sedition and Pockets
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
Posts: 1041
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:33 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I felt some energy at the initial BLM protest I was at last summer after George Floyd was killed - that kind of thing could be translated into a working-class thing potentially. Part of me just wonders if the capitalistic garbage and propaganda have made it too difficult for people to rise up. I hope I'm wrong.


That energy was there, for sure. At least up until the point that most of the protests were captured by the non-profit sector and funneled back towards Democratic party aligned electoral politics. That energy was incipiently revolutionary, and, in other contexts, with a stronger, more organized multinational, cross-identity socialist movement behind it, what we saw over the summer (the convergence of rage over the continuing practices of racist police terror and the absolute fury of working Americans at the total failure of US capitalism and its state apparatus to meet the challenge of the pandemic) could absolutely have constituted a revolutionary crisis. What was wanting to lever open a window of opportunity for real change, for real forward movement, was a strong vanguard party and a broad array of institutions of dual power to give the movement in the streets direction and weight behind it. If we simply wait on these spontaneous explosions of outrage without building the infrastructure to convert outrage to power, we'll continue to see what we have seen for decades, and the rage of the people will be captured and co-opted by the Dem aligned NGOs who are at present the only really organized and resourced elements with connections to the movements at the grass roots level. These orgs do some good work, but they are at their core centers of ruling class power, so they cannot form a basis for a movement for revolutionary change.

I think you see what I see, that things cannot continue to go forward as they have gone on before, and I get that watching over and over again as energy and outrage are snuffed out and buried by politics as usual is discouraging. But, I'd urge you not to give in to the counsel of despair. We can build movements that are equipped with the tools to overcome the opposition of the ruling class. We can build institutions within civil society that can become a basis for working class power and the administration of the whole of society. But that work has to be done between the explosions of mass outrage. It has to be done consciously, directed with single-minded zeal toward the end goal of bringing about a new society, one not poisoned to its core by an economic system of exploitation and oppression. If we can do that, we can have the infrastructure in place when the inevitable explosions occur. We can be prepared to turn outrage into power and power into the motive force for the revolutionary realignment of society to meet human need instead of satisfying inhuman greed. It's been done before; we can do it again.

The nice thing is that it has been done before. There is a roadmap, a blueprint already available. We don't have to invent from whole cloth. We can learn from the past. We can learn from the successes, from the failures, from even the disasters. We can do it again, but do it better.
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Methuen
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:55 pm
Posts: 1481
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:28 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I felt some energy at the initial BLM protest I was at last summer after George Floyd was killed - that kind of thing could be translated into a working-class thing potentially. Part of me just wonders if the capitalistic garbage and propaganda have made it too difficult for people to rise up. I hope I'm wrong.


It's also worth reflecting on what people want from these movements; they may well want the police to stop murdering random people, have fair participation in their own lives, some basic prosperity and so on; they may not want to tear down the entire state and replace it with a whole new (and totally predictable) bunch of problems. Plenty of protest movements are relatively single-issue in that regard, and there's relatively little scope to turn them into something more. I'd cite the anti-Fracking camps in the UK - plenty of people (of all demographics) went out of their way to disrupt the fracking industry and prevent it becoming 'live' here; there'd be little chance of getting them to storm the palaces of the mighty, however.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29058
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:04 pm 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
I felt some energy at the initial BLM protest I was at last summer after George Floyd was killed - that kind of thing could be translated into a working-class thing potentially. Part of me just wonders if the capitalistic garbage and propaganda have made it too difficult for people to rise up. I hope I'm wrong.


That energy was there, for sure. At least up until the point that most of the protests were captured by the non-profit sector and funneled back towards Democratic party aligned electoral politics. That energy was incipiently revolutionary, and, in other contexts, with a stronger, more organized multinational, cross-identity socialist movement behind it, what we saw over the summer (the convergence of rage over the continuing practices of racist police terror and the absolute fury of working Americans at the total failure of US capitalism and its state apparatus to meet the challenge of the pandemic) could absolutely have constituted a revolutionary crisis. What was wanting to lever open a window of opportunity for real change, for real forward movement, was a strong vanguard party and a broad array of institutions of dual power to give the movement in the streets direction and weight behind it. If we simply wait on these spontaneous explosions of outrage without building the infrastructure to convert outrage to power, we'll continue to see what we have seen for decades, and the rage of the people will be captured and co-opted by the Dem aligned NGOs who are at present the only really organized and resourced elements with connections to the movements at the grass roots level. These orgs do some good work, but they are at their core centers of ruling class power, so they cannot form a basis for a movement for revolutionary change.

I think you see what I see, that things cannot continue to go forward as they have gone on before, and I get that watching over and over again as energy and outrage are snuffed out and buried by politics as usual is discouraging. But, I'd urge you not to give in to the counsel of despair. We can build movements that are equipped with the tools to overcome the opposition of the ruling class. We can build institutions within civil society that can become a basis for working class power and the administration of the whole of society. But that work has to be done between the explosions of mass outrage. It has to be done consciously, directed with single-minded zeal toward the end goal of bringing about a new society, one not poisoned to its core by an economic system of exploitation and oppression. If we can do that, we can have the infrastructure in place when the inevitable explosions occur. We can be prepared to turn outrage into power and power into the motive force for the revolutionary realignment of society to meet human need instead of satisfying inhuman greed. It's been done before; we can do it again.

The nice thing is that it has been done before. There is a roadmap, a blueprint already available. We don't have to invent from whole cloth. We can learn from the past. We can learn from the successes, from the failures, from even the disasters. We can do it again, but do it better.


Yeah. Hopefully that happens. It's just about finding the movements. I'm trying to get involved with local aid and people interested in helping outside the electoral realm. Revolutionary, real change is a long haul for sure, takes time.

Quote:
It's also worth reflecting on what people want from these movements; they may well want the police to stop murdering random people, have fair participation in their own lives, some basic prosperity and so on; they may not want to tear down the entire state and replace it with a whole new (and totally predictable) bunch of problems. Plenty of protest movements are relatively single-issue in that regard, and there's relatively little scope to turn them into something more. I'd cite the anti-Fracking camps in the UK - plenty of people (of all demographics) went out of their way to disrupt the fracking industry and prevent it becoming 'live' here; there'd be little chance of getting them to storm the palaces of the mighty, however.


True. It's just that this police stuff was a singular issue that had been building up. The capitalistic problems are their own whole spider-web of things that take more dissection to get to the bottom of. But people are definitely waking up to that now.
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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 309
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:54 am 
 

So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 428
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:14 am 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

It's probably mandatory for a president to bomb Syria at least once a year.
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Methuen
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 4:55 pm
Posts: 1481
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:36 am 
 

Slater922 wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

It's probably mandatory for a president to bomb Syria at least once a year.


I suppose the difference will emerge in the nature of military action under Biden; will his America start new campaigns / invade somewhere / take aggressive actions because it's Tuesday and he's bored ? or will it be 'we've inherited this situation, if you slap at us we're going to slap back' ?

You'd be hard pressed to find any country that would respond to lethal attacks on it's personnel with 'lol ok then *shrug*', after all. (see also - India vs. China skirmishes last year)

It's not ideal, though, I do agree there.
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Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:36 am 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

'U.S. airstrikes targeted bases in Syria used by Iranian militant groups suspected of attacking American and allied forces in northern Iraq last week.'

Are you so desperate for any excuse to attack Biden that you'll somehow conclude attacking a terrorist group that has killed Americans and Iraqi civilians is bad? Come on.

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Curious_dead
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 493
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:37 am 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/


Trump...

- profited from the presidency, placed his kids in position where they were able to profit too;
- made a five years attack on objective reality, pushed lies after lies, discredited science;
- actively made multiple crises worse, including Puerto Rico and the pandemic, who, maybe you don't know, has now caused 500K deaths in the US;
- started a trade war with China for no good reason;
- actively tried to steal the election;
- gassed people to make a photo op at a Church;
- removed regulations left and right, including environmental protections, protections for LGBTQ;
- speed-nominated many, many unqualified and/or ultra-partisan hacks to multiple courts (the damage might take decades to repair);
- probably caused many security leaks;
- led one of the least transparent administration;
- actively supported racists and assorted bigots;
- made decisions to piss off people;
- didn't even try to do something about the BLM protests, not even a fake gesture, and actively threw oil on the fire;
- gave trillions in tax cuts to the rich;
- increased the debt and deficit by a lot;
- spent millions on a useless wall to please racists;
- emboldened far right militias, activists, domestic terrorists such as Boogaloos and Proud Boys (who the FUCK names these groups!).

I mean, by all means, criticize Biden and the Democrats, but for fuck's sake, stop already with the false equivalencies.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 428
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:50 am 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/


Trump...

- profited from the presidency, placed his kids in position where they were able to profit too;
- made a five years attack on objective reality, pushed lies after lies, discredited science;
- actively made multiple crises worse, including Puerto Rico and the pandemic, who, maybe you don't know, has now caused 500K deaths in the US;
- started a trade war with China for no good reason;
- actively tried to steal the election;
- gassed people to make a photo op at a Church;
- removed regulations left and right, including environmental protections, protections for LGBTQ;
- speed-nominated many, many unqualified and/or ultra-partisan hacks to multiple courts (the damage might take decades to repair);
- probably caused many security leaks;
- led one of the least transparent administration;
- actively supported racists and assorted bigots;
- made decisions to piss off people;
- didn't even try to do something about the BLM protests, not even a fake gesture, and actively threw oil on the fire;
- gave trillions in tax cuts to the rich;
- increased the debt and deficit by a lot;
- spent millions on a useless wall to please racists;
- emboldened far right militias, activists, domestic terrorists such as Boogaloos and Proud Boys (who the FUCK names these groups!).

I mean, by all means, criticize Biden and the Democrats, but for fuck's sake, stop already with the false equivalencies.

Even Biden's worse days are nothing compared to Trump's "best" days. Once again, good thing he is isn't reelected, or else who know what would've happen.

And yes, Boogaloos and Proud Boys might be one of the worst militia names of all time. Aren't you just begging for them to be a mess when you name them crap like that?
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:55 am 
 

Ezadara wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

'U.S. airstrikes targeted bases in Syria used by Iranian militant groups suspected of attacking American and allied forces in northern Iraq last week.'

Are you so desperate for any excuse to attack Biden that you'll somehow conclude attacking a terrorist group that has killed Americans and Iraqi civilians is bad? Come on.

US military interventionism is bad and has been for a long while. I'm not losing sleep because an American merc got killed. We shouldn't be over there in the first place.
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darkeningday
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:22 pm 
 

If Biden actually cared about de-escalation he'd pull the US troops and contractors out and replace them with U.N. Peace Corps. There would be no "terrorist attacks" against American interests if there weren't Americans interests there.

This is in no way comparable to the Soleimani atrocity though.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 12:39 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

'U.S. airstrikes targeted bases in Syria used by Iranian militant groups suspected of attacking American and allied forces in northern Iraq last week.'

Are you so desperate for any excuse to attack Biden that you'll somehow conclude attacking a terrorist group that has killed Americans and Iraqi civilians is bad? Come on.


Who cares about that though? There are pressing needs here at home.
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EldritchSun
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
Posts: 309
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:03 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Ezadara wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

'U.S. airstrikes targeted bases in Syria used by Iranian militant groups suspected of attacking American and allied forces in northern Iraq last week.'

Are you so desperate for any excuse to attack Biden that you'll somehow conclude attacking a terrorist group that has killed Americans and Iraqi civilians is bad? Come on.


Who cares about that though? There are pressing needs here at home.

EXACTLY!

How many small businesses closed because they are broke as fuck?
How many more people will die because the healthcare industry/system is collapsed as fuck?
How many more vets will live like hobos because the fucking government abandoned them?
How many more Americans will struggle to pay the fucking bills because they are unemployed and/or they can't work anywhere?

Yet, Biden goes into this fucking operation that no one fucking asked for it, that won't make ANY fucking difference to Americans and is there spending MILLIONS of fucking dollars per fucking DAY.

WHY? Why people allow this mentally challenged politics of invading countries that no one cares for yet making Americans suffers starve and die in their own fucking soil? WHY?

Drill this shit into your brain: The US should care about AMERICANS first and when single fucking American has a decent life standard, then and only THEN the US government should be allowed to play the fucking hero in the world.

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 428
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:09 pm 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
EXACTLY!

How many small businesses closed because they are broke as fuck?
How many more people will die because the healthcare industry/system is collapsed as fuck?
How many more vets will live like hobos because the fucking government abandoned them?
How many more Americans will struggle to pay the fucking bills because they are unemployed and/or they can't work anywhere?

Yet, Biden goes into this fucking operation that no one fucking asked for it, that won't make ANY fucking difference to Americans and is there spending MILLIONS of fucking dollars per fucking DAY.

WHY? Why people allow this mentally challenged politics of invading countries that no one cares for yet making Americans suffers starve and die in their own fucking soil? WHY?

Drill this shit into your brain: The US should care about AMERICANS first and when single fucking American has a decent life standard, then and only THEN the US government should be allowed to play the fucking hero in the world.

THIS.

Come on, Biden. Me and everyone else count on you to help get this country and the world out of the pandemic, not bomb Syria for the sake of it.
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:35 pm 
 

All the "Trump didn't start any new wars" people seem to be forgetting all the new wars that he had to be talked out starting. I distinctly remember him wanting to invade Iran, North Korea, and Venezuela off the top of my head and there are likely others on and off the record. That said, I'm disgusted yet unsurprised by Biden's move here.
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Sedition and Pockets
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Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:29 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:51 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/


Trump...

- profited from the presidency, placed his kids in position where they were able to profit too;
- made a five years attack on objective reality, pushed lies after lies, discredited science;
- actively made multiple crises worse, including Puerto Rico and the pandemic, who, maybe you don't know, has now caused 500K deaths in the US;
- started a trade war with China for no good reason;
- actively tried to steal the election;
- gassed people to make a photo op at a Church;
- removed regulations left and right, including environmental protections, protections for LGBTQ;
- speed-nominated many, many unqualified and/or ultra-partisan hacks to multiple courts (the damage might take decades to repair);
- probably caused many security leaks;
- led one of the least transparent administration;
- actively supported racists and assorted bigots;
- made decisions to piss off people;
- didn't even try to do something about the BLM protests, not even a fake gesture, and actively threw oil on the fire;
- gave trillions in tax cuts to the rich;
- increased the debt and deficit by a lot;
- spent millions on a useless wall to please racists;
- emboldened far right militias, activists, domestic terrorists such as Boogaloos and Proud Boys (who the FUCK names these groups!).

I mean, by all means, criticize Biden and the Democrats, but for fuck's sake, stop already with the false equivalencies.


Donald Trump is no longer President of the United States; Joe Biden is. "But Donald Trump!" was never a valid excuse, and it damn sure stopped being one the moment Trump left office.
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Sedition and Pockets
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:54 pm 
 

Methuen wrote:
Slater922 wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/

It's probably mandatory for a president to bomb Syria at least once a year.


I suppose the difference will emerge in the nature of military action under Biden; will his America start new campaigns / invade somewhere / take aggressive actions because it's Tuesday and he's bored ? or will it be 'we've inherited this situation, if you slap at us we're going to slap back' ?

You'd be hard pressed to find any country that would respond to lethal attacks on it's personnel with 'lol ok then *shrug*', after all. (see also - India vs. China skirmishes last year)


Other countries aren't exposing their "personnel" to potential lethal attacks in dozens of countries halfway across the globe in the relentless pursuit of global domination.
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l Lunaris l
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:13 pm 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
EXACTLY!

How many small businesses closed because they are broke as fuck?
How many more people will die because the healthcare industry/system is collapsed as fuck?
How many more vets will live like hobos because the fucking government abandoned them?
How many more Americans will struggle to pay the fucking bills because they are unemployed and/or they can't work anywhere?

Yet, Biden goes into this fucking operation that no one fucking asked for it, that won't make ANY fucking difference to Americans and is there spending MILLIONS of fucking dollars per fucking DAY.

WHY? Why people allow this mentally challenged politics of invading countries that no one cares for yet making Americans suffers starve and die in their own fucking soil? WHY?

Drill this shit into your brain: The US should care about AMERICANS first and when single fucking American has a decent life standard, then and only THEN the US government should be allowed to play the fucking hero in the world.


Pretty much. Not only is the USA's constant military activity in the middle east absolutely disgusting, but even if you don't care about the imperialism and death it should still be frustrating as all hell. This country spends so much damn money on its military, wasting resources and taxpayer dollars to go play war on the other side of the world. This is something we should care about and be opposed to, and Biden is going to continue it. It's not surprising in the slightest but that doesn't mean it isn't important. Even right-wing assholes should be against it, considering how much they seem to HATE their money being used by the government; but I guess that only applies to situations where it's actually being used for good, so they're perfectly fine paying for weapons to help "fight for our freedom" against countries that never threatened their "freedom" in the first place.

The way the US government manages to waste money isn't restricted to the military obviously, but if you want the government to be able to support american citizens in a sustainable way, then stopping them from pouring out money is an important step.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:43 pm 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Curious_dead wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
So, Biden bombs Syria. At this point, what's the fucking difference with any fucking previous elected clown?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/wor ... 826992002/


Trump...

- profited from the presidency, placed his kids in position where they were able to profit too;
- made a five years attack on objective reality, pushed lies after lies, discredited science;
- actively made multiple crises worse, including Puerto Rico and the pandemic, who, maybe you don't know, has now caused 500K deaths in the US;
- started a trade war with China for no good reason;
- actively tried to steal the election;
- gassed people to make a photo op at a Church;
- removed regulations left and right, including environmental protections, protections for LGBTQ;
- speed-nominated many, many unqualified and/or ultra-partisan hacks to multiple courts (the damage might take decades to repair);
- probably caused many security leaks;
- led one of the least transparent administration;
- actively supported racists and assorted bigots;
- made decisions to piss off people;
- didn't even try to do something about the BLM protests, not even a fake gesture, and actively threw oil on the fire;
- gave trillions in tax cuts to the rich;
- increased the debt and deficit by a lot;
- spent millions on a useless wall to please racists;
- emboldened far right militias, activists, domestic terrorists such as Boogaloos and Proud Boys (who the FUCK names these groups!).

I mean, by all means, criticize Biden and the Democrats, but for fuck's sake, stop already with the false equivalencies.


Donald Trump is no longer President of the United States; Joe Biden is. "But Donald Trump!" was never a valid excuse, and it damn sure stopped being one the moment Trump left office.


I'm replying to someone making a comparison and I showed that comparison was not valid, it's even downright stupid. And since we're on the subject, the mess inherited by Biden by Trump is certainly worthy of discussion and is likely to make some things harder for the new administration.

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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 2:46 pm 
 

Trump's bullshit will make things harder, sure. But what will also make things harder is that the Biden admin is only committed to returning the U.S. to the corporatized status quo that leaves millions hungry and on the edge of poverty - just without a maniacal buffoon that tweets all day at the head, which is good enough for some people.
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Methuen
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:21 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Trump's bullshit will make things harder, sure. But what will also make things harder is that the Biden admin is only committed to returning the U.S. to the corporatized status quo that leaves millions hungry and on the edge of poverty - just without a maniacal buffoon that tweets all day at the head, which is good enough for some people.


I seem to remember some relatively 'progressive' types (for American politicians at least) got elected this time around; will they get much of a say ?
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Last edited by Methuen on Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ezadara
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:34 pm 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
Yet, Biden goes into this fucking operation that no one fucking asked for it, that won't make ANY fucking difference to Americans and is there spending MILLIONS of fucking dollars per fucking DAY.

WHY? Why people allow this mentally challenged politics of invading countries that no one cares for yet making Americans suffers starve and die in their own fucking soil? WHY?

Drill this shit into your brain: The US should care about AMERICANS first and when single fucking American has a decent life standard, then and only THEN the US government should be allowed to play the fucking hero in the world.

'Americans first', eh? I think I've got just the candidate for you.

There are times when the US not only should intervene, or threaten to intervene-- it has an obligation to. Not too long ago, the only thing that prevented my father's home country from getting steamrolled by a larger country they couldn't hope to fight against was the threat of US military power. Would a more or less defenseless country being trampled into the dust have been a price worth paying for your 'America First' agenda? Back in the 50s, North Korea had essentially swallowed up the South before the US intervened and drove them back across the border. Are you going to tell me America and the world would be better off if all of Korea was today under the rule of the Kim family? Hell, just a couple of years ago, Donald Trump took your advice and pulled American troops out of Syria-- leaving the only realistic chance for a secular, diverse, democratic polity in the region to be crushed by Turkey and Assad. But that's okay, because throwing Rojava to the dogs made a marked improvement in the lives of... uh, how many Americans?

The US has committed some absolutely devastating foreign policy mistakes-- and it's done things that weren't mistakes so much as outright vile. But US intervention (or the threat of it) has also done objectively good things for other countries and for international security, and the failure of the US to intervene when it could have made a difference has permitted acts of horrific violence to go unaddressed. Remember when Bill Clinton was asked about Rwanda? I don't remember him saying the greatest regret of his presidency was that America did too much to stop the violence.

You're at a point of somehow being appalled and disgusted that the US launched a strike against a terrorist militia that routinely attacks, kidnaps, and murders civilians. If that doesn't merit a response... I mean, literally what does?

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Empyreal
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 29058
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:36 pm 
 

Methuen wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
Trump's bullshit will make things harder, sure. But what will also make things harder is that the Biden admin is only committed to returning the U.S. to the corporatized status quo that leaves millions hungry and on the edge of poverty - just without a maniacal buffoon that tweets all day at the head, which is good enough for some people.


I seem to remember some relatively 'progressive' types (for American politicians at least) got elected this time around; will they get much of a say ?


Maybe... it's still a pretty small coalition. Lots of incremental stuff can get done I'm sure. I just wonder exactly how much influence this small crop of progressive types will be able to have. I guess we'll see.
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EldritchSun
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:38 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
Yet, Biden goes into this fucking operation that no one fucking asked for it, that won't make ANY fucking difference to Americans and is there spending MILLIONS of fucking dollars per fucking DAY.

WHY? Why people allow this mentally challenged politics of invading countries that no one cares for yet making Americans suffers starve and die in their own fucking soil? WHY?

Drill this shit into your brain: The US should care about AMERICANS first and when single fucking American has a decent life standard, then and only THEN the US government should be allowed to play the fucking hero in the world.

'Americans first', eh? I think I've got just the candidate for you.

There are times when the US not only should intervene, or threaten to intervene-- it has an obligation to. Not too long ago, the only thing that prevented my father's home country from getting steamrolled by a larger country they couldn't hope to fight against was the threat of US military power. Would a more or less defenseless country being trampled into the dust have been a price worth paying for your 'America First' agenda? Back in the 50s, North Korea had essentially swallowed up the South before the US intervened and drove them back across the border. Are you going to tell me America and the world would be better off if all of Korea was today under the rule of the Kim family? Hell, just a couple of years ago, Donald Trump took your advice and pulled American troops out of Syria-- leaving the only realistic chance for a secular, diverse, democratic polity in the region to be crushed by Turkey and Assad. But that's okay, because throwing Rojava to the dogs made a marked improvement in the lives of... uh, how many Americans?

The US has committed some absolutely devastating foreign policy mistakes-- and it's done things that weren't mistakes so much as outright vile. But US intervention (or the threat of it) has also done objectively good things for other countries and for international security, and the failure of the US to intervene when it could have made a difference has permitted acts of horrific violence to go unaddressed. Remember when Bill Clinton was asked about Rwanda? I don't remember him saying the greatest regret of his presidency was that America did too much to stop the violence.

You're at a point of somehow being appalled and disgusted that the US launched a strike against a terrorist militia that routinely attacks, kidnaps, and murders civilians. If that doesn't merit a response... I mean, literally what does?


You're not getting it. Americans (I mean every single mofo that lives in US) in general deserve a government that cares about them FIRST, after all it's THEIR fucking taxes what is funding the fucking Rambos across the world.

How many elderly kill themselves every year because they are left all alone, not only by their relatives by also the fucking government? After working their asses off for fucking DECADES and funding the fucking country and the paychecks of GENERATIONS of useless motherfuckers that give 2 shits about them, what's the government's gratitude? NOTHING. You can say the same for every single American that break their backs sweating and working... for what? to be left at their own when things aren't going good enough, when the money that the government loves to spend playing overseas is somehow questioned because there are people fucking STARVING in American soil?

So, in your example taken at heart, I should let my family starve! There are others out there that are in worst scenarios than us.

I mean, the whole middle east crisis and beyond was caused BECAUSE the US fucking intervened in the first place. See Cuba or Venezuela; those countries have suffered for GENERATIONS due the American "hate to commies". Trump had the nerve to get some mercenaries into Venezuela and got caught. What happened to those Americans who are the heroes of the world, a world that need them that much? They were LEFT TO ROT in Maduro's hands! That's how the fucking government is! THEY DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT YOU OR AMERICAN CITIZENS.

Will you tell me that the Persian Gulf war was just because USA was worried about fucking WORLD PEACE? When did the US act without their own agenda to seize resources? The whole war on terrorism crap is nothing but modern Imperalism! Greed and fucking endless and inhuman killing.

What happened with Biden's campaign? he already CHICKENED OUT about the minimum wage raise. He fucking GAVE UP before even going for it. I hate fucking Trump with a passion but what did he do in the first day in office? He fucking SENT TPP-11 TO HELL. Do you think Biden has or would have had the balls to do it? NO! He is a fucking coward, liar son of a bitch that will do everything corporations and Wall Street tell him to do while putting a sorry face.

American politics must be reshaped, remade completely! All those people who are homeless, unemployed, with 2 mortgages on their backs, without a fucking penny to pay the bills, the ones who are fucking starving, the ones who lost fucking EVERYTHING, the ones who lost their loved ones overseas and in homeland due the Politician's greed and fucking corruption, corporate/institutionalized racism (aka, in the hands of the FUCKING COPS) should go to the streets and riot the fuck down this fucking country until this fucking government apologize for being the greedy and heartless bastards they are and start use the fucking PEOPLE'S MONEY for the PEOPLE. Biden MUST ACT or people should force them to do so. You just CAN'T FUCKING TOLERATE THIS ANYMORE.

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Ezadara
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:32 pm
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:21 pm 
 

EldritchSun wrote:
How many elderly kill themselves every year because they are left all alone, not only by their relatives by also the fucking government? After working their asses off for fucking DECADES and funding the fucking country and the paychecks of GENERATIONS of useless motherfuckers that give 2 shits about them, what's the government's gratitude? NOTHING. You can say the same for every single American that break their backs sweating and working... for what? to be left at their own when things aren't going good enough, when the money that the government loves to spend playing overseas is somehow questioned because there are people fucking STARVING in American soil?

So, in your example taken at heart, I should let my family starve! There are others out there that are in worst scenarios than us.

Here's the thing, I'm not saying we shouldn't do more for working families, a lot more. But you are saying we basically shouldn't do anything to address issues of violence and terrorism around the world.

Quote:
I mean, the whole middle east crisis and beyond was caused BECAUSE the US fucking intervened in the first place.

Crazy generalizations like this are impossible to take seriously. For starters, there is no single 'Middle East crisis', and for another, the notion that every crisis in the Middle East goes back to US intervention is wrong, just on the face of it. Or are we going to pretend it wasn't the Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan that led to the years of violence and autocracy that country has suffered-- that it wasn't European colonialism that wreaked havoc on the ability of countries like Yemen to stabilize-- that it wasn't the spread of Salafism that has been the direct trigger for violence throughout Iraq and Syria, among others? Your insistence that the US is responsible for what's wrong in the Middle East has no basis in reality.

Quote:
See Cuba or Venezuela; those countries have suffered for GENERATIONS due the American "hate to commies".

Those countries have suffered for generations because they were ruled by vicious, corrupt despots. Are you actually gonna look me in the eye (you know, figuratively speaking) and tell me Hugo Chavez would have been some icon of democracy if not for America-- that Nicolas Maduro wouldn't be butchering his own people if not for America? Come on.

Quote:
Will you tell me that the Persian Gulf war was just because USA was worried about fucking WORLD PEACE? When did the US act without their own agenda to seize resources? The whole war on terrorism crap is nothing but modern Imperalism! Greed and fucking endless and inhuman killing.

Iraq invaded a sovereign country for its oil. The US spearheaded an effort to drive them out and liberate Kuwait. It was a multilateral, coordinated effort bringing in partners throughout the region to prevent an aggressive, expansionist dictator from seizing an unprecedented amount of wealth to fuel further violence. You're arguing against all scholarly evidence and analysis of the Gulf War to make the case that the US... what, just felt like killing some Iraqi soldiers?

Quote:
What happened with Biden's campaign? he already CHICKENED OUT about the minimum wage raise. He fucking GAVE UP before even going for it. I hate fucking Trump with a passion but what did he do in the first day in office? He fucking SENT TPP-11 TO HELL. Do you think Biden has or would have had the balls to do it? NO! He is a fucking coward, liar son of a bitch that will do everything corporations and Wall Street tell him to do while putting a sorry face.

American politics must be reshaped, remade completely! All those people who are homeless, unemployed, with 2 mortgages on their backs, without a fucking penny to pay the bills, the ones who are fucking starving, the ones who lost fucking EVERYTHING, the ones who lost their loved ones overseas and in homeland due the Politician's greed and fucking corruption, corporate/institutionalized racism (aka, in the hands of the FUCKING COPS) should go to the streets and riot the fuck down this fucking country until this fucking government apologize for being the greedy and heartless bastards they are and start use the fucking PEOPLE'S MONEY for the PEOPLE. Biden MUST ACT or people should force them to do so. You just CAN'T FUCKING TOLERATE THIS ANYMORE.

I don't even know how to respond to this. It's just thoughtless, gratuitous vitriol without any actual points or sense. Also not really related to what we were talking about, but at least you were able to fit a few more 'fucks' in there.

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Sedition and Pockets
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:26 pm 
 

Curious_dead wrote:
I'm replying to someone making a comparison and I showed that comparison was not valid, it's even downright stupid. And since we're on the subject, the mess inherited by Biden by Trump is certainly worthy of discussion and is likely to make some things harder for the new administration.


The "mess" Biden has "inherited" in Syria was created by an administration in which he served and played a key role in the formulation of foreign and national security strategy. He doesn't get a pass on this one.
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Methuen
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:40 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
I don't even know how to respond to this. It's just thoughtless, gratuitous vitriol without any actual points or sense. Also not really related to what we were talking about, but at least you were able to fit a few more 'fucks' in there.


There's a grindcore band in there somewhere - "Thoughtless Gratuitous Vitriol", with their new single-track 45 minute EP "Fit a few more fucks in there" :D
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EldritchSun
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:01 pm 
 

Ezadara wrote:
EldritchSun wrote:
How many elderly kill themselves every year because they are left all alone, not only by their relatives by also the fucking government? After working their asses off for fucking DECADES and funding the fucking country and the paychecks of GENERATIONS of useless motherfuckers that give 2 shits about them, what's the government's gratitude? NOTHING. You can say the same for every single American that break their backs sweating and working... for what? to be left at their own when things aren't going good enough, when the money that the government loves to spend playing overseas is somehow questioned because there are people fucking STARVING in American soil?

So, in your example taken at heart, I should let my family starve! There are others out there that are in worst scenarios than us.

Here's the thing, I'm not saying we shouldn't do more for working families, a lot more. But you are saying we basically shouldn't do anything to address issues of violence and terrorism around the world.


Not NOTHING, but significantly LESS, given the state of affairs in American soil. People can't fucking pay their own houses. Provided that it's their taxes what makes all fucking Rambos and Tom Cruises to play Call of Duty out there, I say: Fix the shit you have in your own house first, then see if you can/will play at dick measurement operations with Russia and other shit countries.

Look at this. I mean it!

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... etroit-re/

Israel does, indeed, receive $3 billion from the U.S. annually, and has over the last decade, making it the "largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II," according to an August 2019 report by the Congressional Research Service.

That amount is going to go up, too. Signed in 2016, a new 10-year agreement between the two countries increased the annual aid to $3.8 billion, which will run from fiscal years 2019 to 2028, the CRS report says. Most of the money – $3.3 billion – will go to military financing.


WHY! Why people allow this fucking robbery!

What about this

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/1 ... i-d10.html

In bipartisan vote: US House approves record $741 billion military spending bill

The overwhelming bipartisan vote by the House of Representatives Tuesday evening to approve the largest military budget in American history demonstrates the reality of capitalist politics. Democrats and Republicans are supposedly at each other’s throats over an array of social and political issues, but they are entirely in agreement on funding the world’s largest and most lethal military machine

The $741 billion for the Pentagon is approximately six times as much as the $121 billion in unemployment benefits paid out to 60 million workers since the coronavirus pandemic struck.


Do the US really NEED to spend 741 BILLION A YEAR in FUCKING MILITIA? What about American people in total financial bankruptcy?

See how WRONG IS THIS? How heartless it is? Who can, with a straight face, defend this shit and say "fuck the American people, we need more soldiers and weapons to massacre entire countries overseas instead".

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Sedition and Pockets
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:00 pm 
 

Actual US expenditures on the war machine are in the vicinity of $1.3 TRILLION annually. The official "defense" budget is only the half of it.
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EldritchSun
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:14 pm 
 

Sedition and Pockets wrote:
Actual US expenditures on the war machine are in the vicinity of $1.3 TRILLION annually. The official "defense" budget is only the half of it.

That alone is worthy of millions of Americans going on the streets to stop that madness and demand for what it's theirs. Fucking shameless government and politicians.

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Burnyoursins
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:06 pm 
 

I don't mean to nitpick here Ezadara, but the push to intervene in Korea didn't even come from the Americans, and America wasn't the only country that sent troops. It was a UN mission. Regardless of all that, American "interventionism" single-handedly created America's worst enemies. Toppling democratically elected governments in the 50s/60s all over the Middle East that created a firestorm of religious extremism and hatred for the west. Stop glazing over that fact. You can go on and on about "moral obligations" for the US to intervene, but the fact is, every goddamn time they have, they've made things so much worse. The US CREATED the conditions that allowed all these terrorist groups to become as big and rampant as they are.
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