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Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:30 am 
 

Oh boy, it's happening
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Last edited by Thexhumed on Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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oldmetalhead
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 am
Posts: 839
Location: Helltown, United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:41 am 
 

Yep, Russia is taking out what military infrastructure Ukraine has right now. They will stroll right in and take over in a week.

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Thexhumed
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 1919
Location: Chile
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:10 am 
 

This is just the beginning of a long ass conflict, let's hope it doesn't escalate into a world wide war.
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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 6032
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:38 am 
 

If Russia ends up with an Iraq/Afghanistan style occupation of a population that doesn't want them... Russia, yes Russia, is fucked. But Putin knows that and it's why I'm holding out hope, fleeting as it seems to be, this is just about the Donbas. But fucking hell if there's bombs going in Kiev... ugh.
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
Posts: 1436
Location: CHRAWNA, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:58 am 
 

Thexhumed wrote:
let's hope it doesn't escalate into a world wide war.


I'm not holding my breath on that one. But I would certainly love nothing more than to be wrong. This is terrible.

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~Guest 881392
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 4:06 pm
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:45 am 
 

Stay safe everyone in Ukraine. I thought this would happen as well, but it's still surrealistic to see and hear about. Explosions were heard in Kiev as well. This is not good.

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henkkjelle
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm
Posts: 4537
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:11 am 
 

Me yesterday:
henkkjelle wrote:
It would turn into defending democracy if Russia decided to invade the whole of Ukraine as a majority of the Ukrainian people are in favor of joining NATO and tightening relationships with the EU, and do not want to become a vassal state of Russia. I think it's pretty unlikely Russia will go that far though. They don't want an all-out war. They want to continue fanning the flames of pro-russian separatism so they can nibble away areas like Donetsk and Luhansk.


Yeah not that unlikely anymore... seems like they're invading a way bigger area than Donbas from multiple directions - the eastern border, Crimea and Belarus, and Putin has pretty much confirmed that they're planning on taking the whole country in his latest (pre-recorded) speech.
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MikeyC
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 5:16 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:36 am 
 

This looks bleak. Hopefully everyone in Ukraine remains safe.
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Aldrahn333
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:40 am 
 

They have bombed near Odessa and Ivano Frankvisk. Have a look at the map where these cities are. I fear Moldavia might be next. The West must send armaments to Ukraine to defend itself.

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mirons
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 660
Location: Latvia
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:43 am 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
Me yesterday:
henkkjelle wrote:
It would turn into defending democracy if Russia decided to invade the whole of Ukraine as a majority of the Ukrainian people are in favor of joining NATO and tightening relationships with the EU, and do not want to become a vassal state of Russia. I think it's pretty unlikely Russia will go that far though. They don't want an all-out war. They want to continue fanning the flames of pro-russian separatism so they can nibble away areas like Donetsk and Luhansk.


Yeah not that unlikely anymore... seems like they're invading a way bigger area than Donbas from multiple directions - the eastern border, Crimea and Belarus, and Putin has pretty much confirmed that they're planning on taking the whole country in his latest (pre-recorded) speech.


There are not only reports of attacks on Kiev, but also video footage of missiles hitting Ivano-Frankivsk airport (160 km from Polish border and 110 km from Romania) and reports of blowing up a TV tower in Lutsk (less than 100 km from Poland), so it's a full scale attack. Granted, these few probably serve more as panic-inducing measures, but still. Also, they are moving in from Belarus, and Belarussian army forces are reported to be among the invading troops. Fierce fights happening in the vicinity of Kharkiv, there are reports of 4 destroyed Russian tanks.

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darkeningday
xXdArKenIngDayXx

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 1:20 pm
Posts: 6032
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:07 am 
 

Russia clearly wants to oust Zelensky and install a puppet government. Fucking everything they're doing is straight out of the Iraq playbook. Yo pudding, did you like ISIS? Now imagine that but at your doorstep. The US must under no circumstances get involved, and that includes when suicide bombers inevitably start turning Moscow into Swiss cheese.

Putin has no idea the harm he's caused by this deranged act of imperialist greed and depravity. But the scary part, the part that should send chills up everyone's spine, is that I think he does.
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~Guest 881392
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 4:06 pm
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:40 am 
 

There are reports of civilian buildings being fired upon in Kharkiv as well so they're not only hitting military/essential things it seems. My heart really goes out to everyone in the area. Most countries in Europe are now discussing sending even more soldiers to the East. Baltic countries and Poland have invoked artickle 4 (not 5) for NATO as well. Prime ministers of the Nordic Countries have also had security meetings today to discuss the way forward. This is a dark day for European history however you see it.

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hakarl
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 8816
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:56 am 
 

Europe is too reliant on Russian gas to be able to produce any kind of united response. European leaders are too concerned about their corporate support to commit into effectual sanctions. However well or poorly the Russian attack goes for Putin, he has calculated the risks, and will get away with it.

On a personal level, Putin will have more reason for paranoia due to this. Most of the support in Russia for this is coerced. Putin's isolation and paranoia will accelerate, and whatever shitty ending there is in store for him is gonna get closer. Personally I think he's going to die like Stalin at the end.

darkeningday wrote:
Russia clearly wants to oust Zelensky and install a puppet government. Fucking everything they're doing is straight out of the Iraq playbook. Yo pudding, did you like ISIS? Now imagine that but at your doorstep. The US must under no circumstances get involved, and that includes when suicide bombers inevitably start turning Moscow into Swiss cheese.

Putin has no idea the harm he's caused by this deranged act of imperialist greed and depravity. But the scary part, the part that should send chills up everyone's spine, is that I think he does.

Suicide bombers? What the hell are you talking about?
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MeavyHetal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:14 am 
 

Blackened death metal band 1914 (who are from Ukraine) just posted a photo of the Russian attack on Kiev

Image

This is a dark day for Europe indeed, hoping this doesn't fully escalate into World War III :(

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Slater922
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:24 pm
Posts: 2342
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:16 am 
 

MeavyHetal wrote:
Blackened death metal band 1914 (who are from Ukraine) just posted a photo of the Russian attack on Kiev

Spoiler: show
Image


This is a dark day for Europe indeed, hoping this doesn't fully escalate into World War III :(

Yikes... crossing my fingers that the people of Kiev and Ukraine get out of this in one piece :(
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Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2762
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:11 am 
 

So the worst has happened. This strikes close to home (Poland). I hope (and unfortunately probably in vain) that NATO will react decisively.

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Megatokyo
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:56 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:09 am 
 

All I can say is... Y'all better hope the US doesn't get involved.
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InnesI
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Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:22 am 
 

henkkjelle wrote:
. . .and Putin has pretty much confirmed that they're planning on taking the whole country in his latest (pre-recorded) speech.


The pre-recorded part seems to be false information that was first spread by Ekho Moskvi Radio but was debunked by Gianluca Mezzofiore (CNN).

Megatokyo wrote:
All I can say is... Y'all better hope the US doesn't get involved.


Yeah, if the US went in I think this could accelerate to something really bad. Some argue that we can't let Putin have his way and while that if all fine in theory what will happen i practice if the US gets involved? Then we're in for a conflict that might spread like wild-fire.

We'll also see how China reacts in regards to Taiwan. This might be the start of them going ahead with their plans to take over and seeing as China and Russia have good relations what would that mean for a future larger war?
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Aldrahn333
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:28 pm
Posts: 477
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:27 am 
 

The thread title is really irritant.

This is the case of a full scale attack and invasion, and it is entitled as "conflict between the 2 sides"?!

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JCP524
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:37 pm
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:40 am 
 

Megatokyo wrote:
All I can say is... Y'all better hope the US doesn't get involved.


Yes, that would be bad for Russia. They are a second world country with a paper tiger military. The Ukrainian military is more than holding there own and has inflicted heavy casualties. That tells you something right there.

Sanctions will basically cripple Russia and ruin there country but boots on the ground need not be off the table.

Russia interfered in the 2016 election which is an act of war and now they have attacked a future NATO ally.

The United States NEEDS a cause to rally around. With all the divisiveness created by conservatives it is necessary to involve ourselves in a transcendent fight for democracy against a racist imperialist evil empire.

Nazi Germany, the american South, the Russians all have one thing in common-a commitment to white supremacy.

We bloodied the nazis we bloodied the white southerners twice we will bloody the Russians.

Another good thing is that wartime measures could be used to FINALLY do something about divisiveness right wing news media.

We could also use a wartime economy to promote health fitness and equality.

This is not an unjust conflict like Iraq and Afghanistan. This is a fight against a racist homophobic state.

I know which side I stand on.

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quickbeam
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:09 am
Posts: 239
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 10:57 am 
 

JCP524 wrote:
Sanctions will basically cripple Russia and ruin there country but boots on the ground need not be off the table.


Just to pick one point from your bewildering post, why do you think western sanctions would cripple Russia?

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Miikja
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:36 pm
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:00 am 
 

Aldrahn333 wrote:
The thread title is really irritant.

This is the case of a full scale attack and invasion, and it is entitled as "conflict between the 2 sides"?!


Came here to agree with the above. 'Russia invades Ukraine' would be more correct and to the point.

Also. Fuck Putin.
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Curious_dead
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Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:13 pm
Posts: 1476
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:17 am 
 

I don't think the US is going to get involved directly. I doubt they care enough to risk such a massive conflict.

While the Russia army and the Russian economy are poor, they're still a nuclear power. They don't even need to unleash the apocalypse; they just need to use one and it would be a massive catastrophe, no matter where it lands. So probably the best course is to support indirectly Ukraine - with gear, with intel, with sanctions agaisnt Russia, with cyberattacks on Russia. And if Ukraine falls, support the inevitable guerillas that will arise to fight the invaders.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I think world leaders' main concern isn't Ukraine per se, more "We must show Putin that it's not worth doing that shit elsewhere". Costly losses in Ukraine and having to deal with guerillas/rebels would mean putting on hold any attempt to move elsewhere, and Putin isn't getting any younger, and the oligarch's patience has its limits. As for China, I think they'd side with Russia with a lot of things, but between Europe/North America/rest of Asia and Russia? Russia doesn't weigh a lot in the balance. I've seen people suggest China was super-pissed at Russia because this conflcit doesn't concern them yet risk costing them AND because it means some NATO-hesitant countries might decide to get on board, and China doesn't want NATO to have yet more influence, but seeing as Putin may have forced their hands...

In the meantime I hope Canada and other countries will help the inevitable refugees who will leave Ukraine, and I hope that people in the region stay safe.

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Judas Maiden
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Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:56 pm
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Location: Philippines
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:52 am 
 

Cue in 'War Pigs". Damn, when it comes to war, Russia is something else. I was watching the news and they're coming from all fronts not just the two supposed regions they were to 'liberate'. I hope it doesn't escalate further. Should the west sacrifice Ukraine and allow Putin to prevail and install a puppet government so that he can keep Ukraine as Russia's bitch?

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MeavyHetal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:01 pm 
 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-launches-russian-invasion-ukraine-061950168.html

They're apparently targeting Chernobyl now.

Fuck.

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Twisted_Psychology
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:09 pm 
 

If the US directly intervenes, it's World War III. If the US doesn't intervene, the GOP uses this as a demonstration of Biden's weakness and a means to prop up the "Trump 2.0 who's not a complete dipshit this time" that will inevitably win the 2024 election.

I hate everything about this situation.
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MeavyHetal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:20 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
If the US directly intervenes, it's World War III. If the US doesn't intervene, the GOP uses this as a demonstration of Biden's weakness and a means to prop up the "Trump 2.0 who's not a complete dipshit this time" that will inevitably win the 2024 election.

I hate everything about this situation.


It's a lose lose situation for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if the GOP tried to target Biden's lack of response to this situation as a selling point for the next election while simultaneously spewing Pro-Putin propaganda that conservatives will likely eat up.

Bunch of damn hypocrites.

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MDL
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Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:12 pm
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Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:20 pm 
 

Here's an updated map of the regions that were under attack. Airports were targeted, a children was bombed with a shell - knew about this just minutes after waking up today. What a way to start the day:

Spoiler: show
Image


Not to mention these are dangerously close to the other bordering countries, like Moldova or Romania.

As if heading an invasion against innocent people wasn't bad enough, these guys have done it by dawn, when most people were probably still asleep or preparing to go to work. Fuck this shit. This reminds me of what my family passed through in Angola - the colonial war, against the native forces and Portugal. War, violence, bombings, and mid-night sirens sounding everywhere. Why is this needed?

Erasmus of Rotterdam has once written that the only just war was the war fought between the statists who provoked it, so they would leave innocent people alone.

As for US' intervention in this, I'm really not sure. A big part of Trump's foreign policy was to isolate the US on these matters, hence the retreat of the troops in Syria and Afghanistan, that kept on during Biden's presidency. After this mobilization and efforts, I doubt they would intervene again on a foreign conflict, specially when they aren't institutionally obligued to do so. Neither does the rest of Europe, even though it would still be a "moral" obligation to defend an offended country by a foreign power.

Lauching sanctions against an aggressor state is useless in practice. The Treaty of Versailles imposed severe limitations on Germany's military and industrial activities. Guess what happened next?

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InnesI
The Goat Fucker

Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:19 pm
Posts: 2187
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:29 pm 
 

MDL wrote:
As for US' intervention in this, I'm really not sure. A big part of Trump's foreign policy was to isolate the US on these matters, hence the retreat of the troops in Syria and Afghanistan, that kept on during Biden's presidency. After this mobilization and efforts, I doubt they would intervene again on a foreign conflict, specially when they aren't institutionally obligued to do so. Neither does the rest of Europe, even though it would still be a "moral" obligation to defend an offended country by a foreign power.


I'll never trust the US on this point though. I appreciate it if they keep to this line but both democrats and republicans alike have a long history of playing world police and getting involved in conflicts they wouldn't need to intervene with.
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MeavyHetal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:32 pm 
 

Question:

If Russia were to deal significant damage to the nuclear reactor in Chernobyl and radiation spilled over into neighboring countries, would this trigger Article 5 of NATO since Ukraine isn't part of NATO?

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MDL
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:12 pm
Posts: 949
Location: Unknown
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:44 pm 
 

InnesI wrote:
MDL wrote:
As for US' intervention in this, I'm really not sure. A big part of Trump's foreign policy was to isolate the US on these matters, hence the retreat of the troops in Syria and Afghanistan, that kept on during Biden's presidency. After this mobilization and efforts, I doubt they would intervene again on a foreign conflict, specially when they aren't institutionally obligued to do so. Neither does the rest of Europe, even though it would still be a "moral" obligation to defend an offended country by a foreign power.


I'll never trust the US on this point though. I appreciate it if they keep to this line but both democrats and republicans alike have a long history of playing world police and getting involved in conflicts they wouldn't need to intervene with.


I understand, but I think this is much more of a collective effort of all the parties involved to withdraw US presence on these places rather than something that is partisan-related. I truly don't believe in the two-party system (also, I live in Europe, not in the US), so, this seems much more significant to me, in that sense.

On an economic perspective, don't want to appear as materialistic, but if things couldn't be more fucked up, then, well, surprise. Inflation has been pummeling on Western Europe since the beginning of the pandemic and it's really getting its peak higher now, with this situation on Ukraine. Numbers are already skyrocketing in less than 24 hours. I don't know how this economic procedures work, neither I can explain that in certainty, but I've already read people from Russia commenting on forums about all their finances going down drastically. The savings they've been trying to acumulate for years are now rendered useless, all due to an arbitrary and invisible force that controls whatever this piece of metal or paper is worth on a group mentality.

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Megatokyo
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:56 pm
Posts: 210
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 12:52 pm 
 

MeavyHetal wrote:
Twisted_Psychology wrote:
If the US directly intervenes, it's World War III. If the US doesn't intervene, the GOP uses this as a demonstration of Biden's weakness and a means to prop up the "Trump 2.0 who's not a complete dipshit this time" that will inevitably win the 2024 election.

I hate everything about this situation.


It's a lose lose situation for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if the GOP tried to target Biden's lack of response to this situation as a selling point for the next election while simultaneously spewing Pro-Putin propaganda that conservatives will likely eat up.

Bunch of damn hypocrites.

Russia is a VERY homophobic country, so conservatives will eat that propaganda up like junkies on speed. Fuck the GOP.
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Kaleva
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:04 pm 
 

I am aware that the consequences for allied countries can be enormous, but Ukraine needs help. Even if you are not a member of NATO, they were right when they were seeking for protection and you have to defend innocent people. Europe and the West boast about values, it is time to demonstrate it. My best wishes to fellow Ukrainians.

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Zdan
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:05 pm
Posts: 2762
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:08 pm 
 

Kaleva wrote:
I am aware that the consequences for allied countries can be enormous, but Ukraine needs help. Even if you are not a member of NATO, they were right when they were seeking for protection and you have to defend innocent people. Europe and the West boast about values, it is time to demonstrate it. My best wishes to fellow Ukrainians.


The problem here may also be that a decisive NATO action against this crazy fucker may result in tactical nuke strikes. NOBODY wants to be put into this situation. So Putin bluffs he will do it and NATO would have to get into the bluffing game. This may end in an escalation of hostilities into the World War level.


Last edited by Zdan on Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MeavyHetal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:54 pm
Posts: 1076
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:30 pm 
 

Zdan wrote:
Kaleva wrote:
I am aware that the consequences for allied countries can be enormous, but Ukraine needs help. Even if you are not a member of NATO, they were right when they were seeking for protection and you have to defend innocent people. Europe and the West boast about values, it is time to demonstrate it. My best wishes to fellow Ukrainians.


The problem here may also be that a decisive NATO action against this crazy fucker may result in tactical nuke strikes. NOBODY wants to be put into this situation. So Putin bluffs he will do it and NATO would have to into the bluffing game. This may end in an escalation of hostilities into the World War level.


Nuclear war is bad enough, but Russia has the largest stockpile of warheads in the world and has strong nuclear tech. Aggravating them into utilizing these weapons would end badly for everyone.

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red_blood_inside
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 639
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:35 pm 
 

This is really fucked up. Is Russia goint to stop in Ukraine or will continue to take over baltic countries , Romania, Poland... If thats so, the ww3 is inevitable
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CoconutBackwards
Bullet Centrist

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:02 pm
Posts: 1787
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 1:58 pm 
 

Twisted_Psychology wrote:
If the US directly intervenes, it's World War III. If the US doesn't intervene, the GOP uses this as a demonstration of Biden's weakness and a means to prop up the "Trump 2.0 who's not a complete dipshit this time" that will inevitably win the 2024 election.

I hate everything about this situation.


Oh God.

fucking PUKE

*Edit: I apologize for being a stupid American and trying to make this about our shithole.

I hope things somehow get better in the Ukraine.
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Twin_guitar_attack
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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:27 am
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Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:19 pm 
 

Got BBC news on and they just quoted Putin as saying "If anyone tries to stand in our way and threaten our country, our people, they should know Russia will respond immediately and this will lead to such consequences the like of this you have never experienced in your history"

What the fuck?
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FLIPPITYFLOOP
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:09 pm
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Location: CHRAWNA, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:30 pm 
 

MeavyHetal wrote:
Question:

If Russia were to deal significant damage to the nuclear reactor in Chernobyl and radiation spilled over into neighboring countries, would this trigger Article 5 of NATO since Ukraine isn't part of NATO?


Uh oh. Russia is targeting the power plant.

https://www.iflscience.com/editors-blog ... uPsG_7TrCQ

MeavyHetal's question is one I think should not be ignored (and to be transparent, I don't know the answer here). Because if the answer to that question is yes, then the US may not even need to directly involve themselves for WWIII to happen.

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oldmetalhead
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:30 am
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Location: Helltown, United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:36 pm 
 

Twin_guitar_attack wrote:
Got BBC news on and they just quoted Putin as saying "If anyone tries to stand in our way and threaten our country, our people, they should know Russia will respond immediately and this will lead to such consequences the like of this you have never experienced in your history"

What the fuck?

Bluster, he is gambling on being the bully and no one would stop him. Even the people in his country don't support this.

I was wondering why they fought and seized Chernobyl, my guess is that can be a platform for their military to base that won't be attacked.

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