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droneriot
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:57 am 
 

They neutered the entire main plot of Apocalypse by making the titular character the least intimidating villain in the entire series, so the only thing enjoyable about it were the numerous fan service scene like seeing Logan, Caliban, another Quicksilver scene, the Star Wars comment, Nightcrawler, the Venom and Metallica songs, the Magneto introduction, etc. Dark Phoenix has the same quality main plot, but left out the fan service scenes, but in turn threw in all that DCEU grimdark feel complete with Hans Zimmer soundtrack and an incurable aversion to turning the damn lights on, ever (maybe vampires in the movie that we didn't know.) I don't think there is "all the hate", millions of people still watched it and not all reviews are negative, it's just disliked by more people than previous ones because it has far less that would appeal to a lot of people. For people who loved the Henry Cavill Superman trilogy it should be the perfect Marvel movie.

To add to the bringing up Henry Cavill Superman and "all the hate", good to remember that Justice League is only considered a box office failure because of its insane budget. For any normally budgeted movie $657 million worldwide would be amazing, it's a lot of money. Dark Phoenix is the same on a smaller scale, it's a commercial failure because of its huge budget, but it actually made more at the box office than many genre films considered classics, even adjusted for inflation. So there wasn't really any universal rejection by audiences, it just cost way too much to make relative to its appeal.
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Jonpo
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Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:05 am
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:24 am 
 

I was also really pleasantly surprised with Into the Spiderverse. I thought I posted about it here but sometimes I type up a big long post and then delete it for no apparent reason. I put the movie on as "background noise" intending to nap to it but I was glued. I usually struggle with all the flagrant CGI in super hero flicks but this is easily remedied by making the WHOLE THING a cartoon. Noir Spiderman is my favorite.

I finally watched Upgrade. God damn, so fun. I really enjoyed how dark and psychological it got in the middle-end.
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Resident_Hazard
Possessed by Starscream's Ghost

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2004 2:33 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:18 am 
 

Mix of old and new here:

Day of the Dead: Didn't have my son with me the previous week, so we finished out our Halloween movies this past weekend. This is handily my favorite zombie movie, and it never, ever gets old. My son's second time seeing it. Last time, a mix of the gore and the pile of sugar he'd eaten caused his stomach to turn, so he had to look away a few times. This time, he watched it all. Hard to say anything else about this one. The tension, the atmosphere, the music, the actors, the effects, the gore, the pacing--everything in this movie is essentially perfect zombie horror. It's simply a great movie. The zombie apocalypse is in full swing, and these people are out of patience. They're sitting on a powder keg, and everyone is holding a match.

The Greatest Showman: My son and girlfriend wanted to watch it, as they both love it, and I'd never seen it. Fictionalized musical telling of the life of P.T. Barnum with modernized musical numbers. An uplifting story about acceptance with some fun musical numbers. I did find it odd they couldn't find a little person to play General Tom Thumb, though. The guy is short, but he was on his knees or given odd CG legs at one point. They really couldn't find someone to fill that role that didn't have to be given CG legs? This was oddly distracting. I have long been a fan of old tyme Freakshows, the attractions and people, and the like. AHS: Freakshow is my favorite season, for instance. But the film is mostly focused on Barnum, not the attractions. The abundance of digital backgrounds, greenscreens, and CG elements made the film feel dreamy, but didn't necessarily harm it. Musicals are not one of my favorites. There are some that I love, like the 1986 Little Shop of Horrors and, let's be frank, the South Park movie. Sweeny Todd was decent, and this was pretty good. But it's not a genre I tend to gravitate towards. I hated Moulin Rouge, though.

Nightmare on Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors: The last of the Halloween movies for my boy and I. I am consistently impressed by this chapter in the series, and I seem to forget what it's really like. It is the turning point in the franchise where the dreams become more fantastical and surreal, and Freddy's comedic elements and one liners start to appear. However, it is the middle ground between the original straight-horror films and the 5th and 6th films, which became very comedy-heavy. As such, it is still a very solid horror film, with generally great effects. There are moments the effects are clearly dated (the Freddy skeleton has some shaking when picking up John Saxon), but it's still very entertaining to watch, even if the Dream Warriors themselves tend not to amount to much.

Get the Gringo: Yeah, Mel Gibson is an asshat, but he's an asshat who knows how to make entertaining films. I'd heard this was good, but didn't expect to be pleasantly surprised by it. Mel Gibson is a crook who ends up tossed in a wildly corrupt Mexican prison. So corrupt, the inmates actually run the place and have basically built a full-blown city within the walls. Gibson is trying to recover the money the crooked Mexican cops stole from him... that he stole previously. What follows is his journey through the prison, where he went from basically zero to coming out on top, but it's one hell of a ride, and very cleverly assembled. I might need to watch this a second time to follow all the threads better. Gibson's character is a talker, a con-man. That's his one great talent, and he does a great job weaving through various characters with that. There is great, punchy dialog, a lot of fun moments, great drama, and some typical Mel Gibson style violence.
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Face_your_fear_79
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:40 pm 
 

Spoiler: show
Yes, everything you've heard is true. The score is a part of pop culture. The domestic conflict is well-known. But nothing shocks like the experience itself.

If you have not seen this movie, do yourself a favor. Stop reading thse comments, get up, take a shower, then GO GET THIS MOVIE. Buy it, don't rent. You will not regret it.

Psycho is easily the best horror-thriller of all time. Nothing even comes close...maybe "Les Diaboliques" (1955) but not really.

Psycho has one of the best scripts you'll ever find in a movie. The movie's only shortcoming is that one of the characters seems to have little motivation in the first act of the movie but as the story progresses, you realize that Hitchcock (GENIUS! GENIUS! GENIUS!) in a stroke of genius has done this on purpose, because there is another character whose motivations are even more important. Vitally important. So important that you totally forget about anything else. I was lucky enough to have spent my life wisely avoiding any conversation regarding the plot of this movie until I was able to see it in full. Thank God I did! The movie has arguably the best mid-plot point and climactic twist in thriller history, and certainly the best-directed ending. The last few shots are chilling and leave a lingering horror in the viewer's mind.

Just as good as the writing is Hitchcock's direction, which is so outstanding that it defies explanation. Suffice it to say that this movie is probably the best directorial effort by film history's best director.

Hitchcock does not disappoint by leaving out his trademark dark humor. His brilliance is in making a climax that is at once both scary and hilarious. When I saw it in the theatre the audience was both gasping in disbelief while falling-on-the-floor laughing.

One more thing...

Tony Perkins. Janet Leigh got much-deserved accolades for this film, but it is Perkins who gives what remains the single best performance by an actor in a horror movie. He is so understated that his brillance passes you by. He becomes the character. The sheer brillance of the role is evidenced by the ineptitude of the actors in Gus Van Sant's 1998 (dear God make it stop!) shot-for-shot "remake." Though the movies are nearly identical, Hitchcock's is superior mostly because of the acting and the atmosphere (some of the creepiness is lost with color). This is made obvious by the initial conversation between Leigh's character and Perkins, a pivotal scene. The brilliance of Perkins in the original shines even brighter when compared with the ruination in the remake even though the words and the shots were exactly the same. The crucial chemistry in this scene lacking in the remake gives everything away and mars our understanding of upcoming events. The fact that Perkins could never escape this role - his star stopped rising star as it had done in the 50s - proves that he played the part perhaps too well.

I keep using the word brilliant, but I cannot hide my enthusiasm for this movie. It is wholly unlike the overblown, overbudget, overlong fluff spewing all-too-often out of Hollywood today. Psycho is simple, well-crafted and just the right length.

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Earthcubed
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:23 pm 
 

I saw Lighthouse.

It was much weirder than The Witch, both in the weird tale sense and the art-house horror sense. There's insanity, drinking, shark vagina masturbation fantasies, drinking, animal sadism, flatulence, Greek mythology (kinda), drinking. Yeah, it's pretty out there, but I liked it overall. It's two characters alone on an island for 90 minutes and they put a lot into it without making it seem crammed or stretching each element thin, and the performances are fantastic.

Between this and Good Time, I think you can forgive the pretty boy from Twilight for...well, being in Twilight.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:55 am 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
Between this and Good Time, I think you can forgive the pretty boy from Twilight for...well, being in Twilight.

He didn't even want to be in Twilight--it was purely for the paycheck. And he said that Meyer's writing and the constant descriptions of his character creeped him out big-time, like he was living out someone's twisted sexual fantasy.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:15 am 
 

Doctor Sleep - Probably Mike Flanagan's weakest film, but it's still good. The weakness isn't his fault so much as the source material's. I never really got why this needed to be connected to The Shining, as the most interesting parts have literally nothing to do with that story, and lead character Danny isn't really fleshed out that much - he's a Stephen King avatar essentially. The good news is that this is expertly made, with a sense for the epic and some great acting, and some scenes are just great. But I also felt like this was kind of retreading ideas Flanagan had explored with The Haunting of Hill House, especially more toward the end. I liked this but I wouldn't say it is the best Flanagan picture.

Dolemite Is My Name - A great classic style underdog story about the trials and tribulations of Blaxploitation actor Rudy Ray Moore and his quest to get big at comedy and then movies by bullshitting his way through and doing things no matter what anybody thinks. Eddie Murphy is fantastic here and the whole thing moves along with very little to object to. These stories never get old. It's funny and ultimately crowd-pleasing entertainment. I dug it.

Terminator: Dark Fate - was a decent way to kill two hours, but man it's kinda lame they couldn't think of anything else but to just do T2 again. It was literally the exact same plot as that film, only they didn't do any of the genre-breaking emotional parts that set T2 apart from other action movies. I feel like these remixes of old classics are just really expensive versions of that guy who thinks all new music sucks now and just listens to the same Guns N Roses and Metallica songs from the 80s forever. There were a few good scenes I guess but the lack of any creativity just felt so cheap.
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darkeningday
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:22 am 
 

Jonpo wrote:
I was also really pleasantly surprised with Into the Spiderverse. I thought I posted about it here but sometimes I type up a big long post and then delete it for no apparent reason. I put the movie on as "background noise" intending to nap to it but I was glued. I usually struggle with all the flagrant CGI in super hero flicks but this is easily remedied by making the WHOLE THING a cartoon. Noir Spiderman is my favorite.

I finally watched Upgrade. God damn, so fun. I really enjoyed how dark and psychological it got in the middle-end.

Best cheapie sci-fi movie in a longass time, that's for sure.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:44 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I feel like these remixes of old classics are just really expensive versions of that guy who thinks all new music sucks now and just listens to the same Guns N Roses and Metallica songs from the 80s forever.

I think the remixes of old classics are like Chinese Democracy and Death Magnetic.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:27 pm 
 

That's kind of what I meant, like they're the movie versions of the old bands coming out with mediocre stuff that some old headbangers lap up like a starving man at an oasis and proclaim "finally, there's something good again." I do enjoy Death Magnetic, though I'm not under any impression that it is anything but what it is.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:46 pm 
 

Personally I have no intention of watching Dark Fate any time soon. The "decent way to kill two hours" is how I felt about the last three already, unlike some people I don't hate them, don't mind them at all, and they're okay to watch when bored. And I don't expect any less of the new one, but not any more either, and at one point I just gotta ask myself how many more "okay to watch" Terminator movies I really need.

Franchises like that that have been plodding along for so long, they really need something special to get themselves going again. For example Batman Begins wasn't exactly box office dynamite, it did okay but a lot of people were lukewarm about yet another Batman movie. Then the sequel came with Heath Ledger and people got all excited about watching Batman movies again. That's really the only thing that works for stalling franchises like that, some special ingredient that really gets the excitement going again. Something like "oh guys we made yet another Terminator movie, and this time it's going to be like yet another Terminator movie!" isn't going to do it.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:01 pm 
 

I'd hoped it would be something a little different - not like I figured it'd ever be a masterpiece but I was hoping it would be more than an outright rehash. They put in a few new characters that were of different demographics and backgrounds and whatnot but none of it ended up making much difference.

It's writing that is the key. The Dark Knight was something totally different and adventurous that sparked conversation. Dark Fate, by contrast, is pretty much just 'OK, here's some nice surface aesthetics and a few action scenes, happy now?'
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:13 pm 
 

Yeah different demographics and backgrounds are kind of pointless if they're used for stock characters. But I'm just assuming that last part based on the track record of the franchise since Rise of the Machines and the reviews I've seen so far.

Also mental associations can be annoyingly persistent. For years now I have been unable to say, write, read or think the term "stock characters" without immediately thinking of Alien: Covenant. I'm glad they at least wrote something of a personality for Michael Fassbender's character, everyone else was a blank page.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:28 pm 
 

Alien Covenant was up there with the worst I've seen in a long time - that shit was infuriating to me. Just so dumb and lazy, everything about it. If Dark Fate is like Death Magnetic, Covenant reminds me of what Queensryche did in the final Tate albums or Virgin Steele turned into in their later years.

It is a lot of stock characters. I didn't want to write too many spoilers, but it's another big blockbuster movie that introduces faint hints of diversity and then never expounds on them.
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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:31 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
They're remaking Black Christmas again. This time? The sorority sisters are fighting back.

And it's going to be rated PG-13. Interesting choice. My hopes weren't high anyway since I didn't really like the 1974 or 2006 versions.

Darlin' - A much weaker sequel to The Woman (2011), which wasn't great to begin with. Nothing about this grabbed me, to the extent that my mind was mostly occupied with wondering if the nun was played by one of the spelunking enthusiasts from The Descent. IMDB says: Yes! It still sucked though, with mostly unlikable characters and a self-indulgent wannabe profound ending. 3 / 10

Rattlesnake - When supernatural forces save her daughter from a snakebite, a woman learns she has to kill a stranger to pay the debt. The writing is really convenient here, as the main character soon runs into an abusive monster boyfriend so we in the audience can still hope she succeeds. Still, this held my interest and worked on a basic level. 6 / 10
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MikeyC
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:48 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Alien Covenant was up there with the worst I've seen in a long time

No argument here. What an awful movie.

The two Jurassic World movies are the same. I got so excited in 2015 when the first one hit and left the cinema in complete shock at just how bad it was. The next one was minimally better but the series is totally tarnished.
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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:40 am 
 

Last two:

A Most Wanted Man: Modern espionage film and a last hurrah for Philip Seymour Hoffman. Actually my second time seeing this, but had forgotten I'd seen it before. A solid film taking place in Hamburg (Germany) where the local terror watchers work to trace money being supplied to terrorists. They stumble upon a man with his father's "dirty money" that they work to utilize in this tracking. With an underlying theme pertaining to the way America fucks with other countries and operates as if we can just do whatever the fuck we want. A decent espionage thriller, but hard to say it's totally memorable.


Paradise Now: Palestinian film about the Israeli occupation. A staggeringly strong movie that does well to leave you with talking points. Shot like an excellent 90's era indie film (but this is from 2005), we follow two men who are chosen to become martyrs in Tel Aviv. So yes, they go through rituals, they shave, and they get explosives strapped to their bodies and are smuggled into Israel. But a mix-up interrupts things and causes the men to be separated. The film manages to hit all points in this. That the Palestinians are an oppressed people, that the Israelis are basically committing a "soft genocide" on them, the differences between the Palestine and Israel, whether or not suicide bombing is effective, and how some feel there's nothing else they can do to fight back, and how young impressionable men are used as weapons by men with power. There is a woman in the story who grew up abroad (France) and sees the world and the conflict differently, and she injects the noted conflicting views into the main characters. Acting is solid, the characters are believable and empathetic, and the film is expertly shot. Highly recommended, particularly if you enjoy political dramas.
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Face_your_fear_79
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:28 pm 
 

I agree about Alien Covenant. Piece of shit basically. Huge disappointment especially compared to the first couple of films.

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Face_your_fear_79
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2019 10:05 pm 
 

Halloween. Rubbish and Over-rated. Anyone who finds this film remotely frightening really must live a sheltered life.

I guess these are the same people who find Freddy Krugger chilling. Just avoid this film. You can spot the bits where the viewer is meant to jump a mile away.

Really, why is this considered a 'classic'? It is in the same mould as Friday The 13th Jason Voorhees. Since when does being locked up for half you life (for killing your older sister) suddenly give you almost superhuman powers and strength?

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ChineseDownhill
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:08 am 
 

Face_your_fear_79 wrote:
Really, why is this considered a 'classic'?

Apparently it gets credit for pioneering the slasher film and "final girl" concept. I've never found it especially impressive either.

The sequel is even worse though.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:10 am 
 

Because it's a great horror film made on almost no budget and Carpenter's skill still comes through better than many later filmmakers could manage?

I mean I'm not "scared" by really any horror films but I do recognize great craftsmanship. Saw the '78 Halloween on a big screen this past Halloween and loved it as much as I ever have.
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theposega
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:08 am 
 

Halloween is great and a masterpiece of dread and anyone saying otherwise is dumb and wrong
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:17 am 
 

I don't like Halloween, Friday the 13th or Nightmare on Elm Street, but that's just personal taste, I don't ascribe any objective quality or lack thereof to them.
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Timeghoul
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:19 am 
 

The original Halloween is amazing. There was nothing like that in mainstream theaters previously. I saw it as a kid when it came out and it scared the living shit out of me. I do agree with you it is a timeless classic and masterpiece.

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Resident_Hazard
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:11 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Because it's a great horror film made on almost no budget and Carpenter's skill still comes through better than many later filmmakers could manage?

I mean I'm not "scared" by really any horror films but I do recognize great craftsmanship. Saw the '78 Halloween on a big screen this past Halloween and loved it as much as I ever have.


To be blunt, going into some horror films and judging them purely on "if they scared me" is idiotic anyway, and potentially a failure on the viewer to respect or understand the art of filmmaking. It's almost deliberately jaded opining. The childish internet culture of "hating stuff is cool."

I don't need to be scared or have nightmares, or whatever, to enjoy the overall craft of a film. Hell, sometimes movies with the scariest or most shocking moments aren't horror films. By today's standards, the original Halloween is a slow, occasionally plodding film. However, as you say, Carpenter's skill at filmmaking shines through and he delivers a solid and carefully constructed film. His score, as typical of Carpenter of the era, is outstanding. It doesn't rely on cheap jump scares and it isn't lazy.

I bought it for my son for his birthday this year and while there are moments where it feels aged or weak, overall I have to agree, it's still quite good. He still liked it and was happy to finally see it. And it seems he is now perfectly able to tell a good movie from a bad one. Of all we watched over October, the one that left him with the most negative view as Nightmare on Elm Street 2. He loved the first movie. With Nightmare 2, as he was putting it away, he noted, "that movie was bad."
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:33 am 
 

Oh for sure. The fear in a horror movie doesn't have to be literally "it kept me up all night and now I am afraid Michael Myers is gonna kill ME" or some such thing... a good horror movie creates an illusion and instills specific, visceral feelings in the audience. It's an emotional art form like many others. It's supposed to have a certain effect on you and make you suspend your disbelief. A bad horror film fails to do so. But measuring it by how much one was literally scared isn't really a thing once you get past childhood and know the bogeyman isn't actually real.
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Luvers666
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:22 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Because it's a great horror film made on almost no budget and Carpenter's skill still comes through better than many later filmmakers could manage?
So your argument for Halloween is this? One person says it is not a good film and you respond by declaring it great before even stating why. No. The original Halloween has some things going for it. The score fits the plot due to its minimal approach and, on a personal note, I love the 5/4 time signature it is in because 5/4 is super creative to me. The way Donald Pleasance walks a tightrope of being professional and crazy himself is top notch. The way Michael is always from the shadows and like he is actively trying to creep out Laurie is effective. However the film is overrun with problems, of which only some can be blamed on a low budget, the rest comes down to bad writing.

1) How did Michael already have the mask to spy on Laurie in the school based on the timeline of events?
2) How did Michael literally disappear when standing in Laurie's backyard? *
3) How did Michael stab someone and have that 180-200 pound body stay up against a wall, anchored only by a butcher knife?
4) How did the filmmakers only get one take on the death scene of Annie Bracket? That was such awful acting.
5) How did Michael go from taking any character out with ease to suddenly being ineffective against a weasel of a character?
6) How did Laurie even get up, let alone be able to run(see: hobble) away after falling over the steps? Her legs would have been broken.

* It is easy to claim she was just seeing things due to her escalating fear but to hell with excuses pulled out of thin air by defenders of bad writing, I will stick to the films explanation of events.... Oh yeah, there is not one.
Resident_Hazard wrote:
To be blunt, going into some horror films and judging them purely on "if they scared me" is idiotic anyway, and potentially a failure on the viewer to respect or understand the art of filmmaking. It's almost deliberately jaded opining. The childish internet culture of "hating stuff is cool."

I don't need to be scared or have nightmares, or whatever, to enjoy the overall craft of a film. Hell, sometimes movies with the scariest or most shocking moments aren't horror films. By today's standards, the original Halloween is a slow, occasionally plodding film. However, as you say, Carpenter's skill at filmmaking shines through and he delivers a solid and carefully constructed film. His score, as typical of Carpenter of the era, is outstanding. It doesn't rely on cheap jump scares and it isn't lazy.
Sorry for not continuing the discussion about A.I. with you, Resident. I had a lot to write but did not have the energy to argue and I felt antagonized by others for it, sorry about that... Anyway, to your point, it depends on the age of the viewer of course. Adults are not afraid of things the way kids are, which is part of why the adult portion of the IT story never works for instance. To scare a kid does not take much effort, to scare an adult IT would have to take the form of an eviction notice, unemployment line or deregulation of nuclear plants.

This exact fact is why I consider the Exorcist so overrated and terribad. That film was released when I was 6 and I first saw the film around the of 9 or 10. I cannot remember exactly when I did but it was before I was a teenager. Seeing as how I became a teenager(13) in 1980, it had to be still in the late 1970's. I watched the film without permission but was able to do so uninterrupted. I was raised a Catholic so I believed in all of that supernatural woo then and could have felt personally connected since it revolves around Roman Catholicism. I was told by then that demons were real, demonic possession was real, exorcism was real and that Satan/Jesus was real.
- Not only all of that but I am a female so I am supposed to be automatically more fearful of whatever someone is telling me, not to mention of lesser cognitive abilities. So despite being in the demographic the film was for - despite my age - I had no connection to the story whatsoever.
- I found all of the "scary" parts to be either comical or boring. If there really is more to the story at hand, which I admit I would not have known at 9 or 10, I failed to notice it when I watched it as an adult. It was still just a boring mess of terrible ideas and ridiculous writing, which could not even scare a young child.
- By an adult I had already realized I was an Atheist and had already been through most of the worst things I have endured in life, since the majority of those occured as an adolescent/teenager. I might be wrong but when you've been beaten, literally, to death and spend almost a month in a coma, bullshit like fictious entities just simply cannot scare you.
- Those decades of violence and assault is might have colored my viewing as an adult but how does one explain my reaction as a kid? When I fell fast asleep during the latter part of the film due to how unbelievably boring the story was.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:25 pm 
 

None of that stuff bothers me. The original Halloween is a personal favorite of mine and has been for a long time. I wasn't trying to put together a big dissertation, but just responding to the other guy's post, which seemed to be unfairly dismissive and doing the old "why is this a classic if I don't like it" thing, which is silly because things don't just stop being what they are if you don't like it. People will have their tastes and sometimes little details like what you said will bother people, but it isn't the case for me. I watch movies as a more emotional, full picture and don't really let every single little detail detract points or whatever - it's the full and complete work that ends up resonating with me.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:29 pm 
 

I've noticed that the amount of plot holes, bad writing etc a person notices is directly linked to the person's enjoyment of the movie. Suspension of disbelief just works so much better if a movie really pulls you in. Good example for me is that I love the first two Die Hard movies, and in the second one it took me about eight times or so watching it to think uh if Chief O'Brien's airplane is "running on petrol fumes", why would it explode on impact? What's exploding?
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Smoking_Gnu
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:31 pm 
 

No love for Die Hard 3? That's really one for taking a ridiculous, nonsensical plot and making it work. Nothing will ever beat the first obviously, but I think I actually like 3 more than 2.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:32 pm 
 

droneriot wrote:
I've noticed that the amount of plot holes, bad writing etc a person notices is directly linked to the person's enjoyment of the movie. Suspension of disbelief just works so much better if a movie really pulls you in. Good example for me is that I love the first two Die Hard movies, and in the second one it took me about eight times or so watching it to think uh if Chief O'Brien's airplane is "running on petrol fumes", why would it explode on impact? What's exploding?


Pretty much. You can pick apart literally any movie and go "why did this or that happen," but it's all subjective and based on a million ultra-personal little things, and it won't ever be universal.

The big things like plot, message and character are what ends up making a movie for me and a lot of people. Never been one to dwell on little mistakes or weird inaccuracies, which seem inevitable in a fictional world because it's something created by human, imperfect minds.

And yeah Die Hard 3 is sometimes my favorite of all of them, though the first is the clear best one from a more objective standpoint.
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droneriot
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:32 pm 
 

3 is halfway between like and love, upper range but not quite at the top.

(4 I thought was surprisingly good on second watching, 5 is The Fonz water skiing.)
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Face_your_fear_79
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:20 pm 
 

Ok. guys, I admit I was a little bit harsh on the film. There was a good atmosphere that the film had and the feeling of dread was there at least a little bit. But I still can't get over the plot holes. Too many of them.

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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:59 pm 
 

First Halloween movie's pretty great, I think. I prefer other Carpenter stuff but it's a classic for good reason, as it pionereed a lot of the conventions of the horror genre. Sure, it's not as well made or polished as some films that came later that had the opportunity to build up on what it brought to the fold, but that's kind of like shitting on Black Sabbath's debut for not being metal enough or something. Some things are better appreciated within the context in which they were created, I guess.

I totally get not liking it and seeing flaws in it, but I honestly find myself far too engrossed in the atmosphere to care. It always felt to me like what I'm watching is a recounting of the story of some sort of urban legend killer, and I'm pretty okay with that.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:46 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
None of that stuff bothers me. The original Halloween is a personal favorite of mine and has been for a long time. I wasn't trying to put together a big dissertation, but just responding to the other guy's post, which seemed to be unfairly dismissive and doing the old "why is this a classic if I don't like it" thing, which is silly because things don't just stop being what they are if you don't like it.
Precisely! He said the movie did not deserve its classic status and was annoyed by the plot holes. You acted like he dismissed the film unfairly even though he did point out a couple flaws. I revealed significant plot holes, which you cannot deny and is why you did not make a dissertation (nice subtle shot on my post though) but then acted like none of those plot holes exist just because you dislike them existing.
Empyreal wrote:
People will have their tastes and sometimes little details like what you said will bother people, but it isn't the case for me.
esto es una mierda! I have seen you claim films were bad because of plot holes, so you cannot act like plot holes do not matter just when someone points out a film you adore is of less quality than you think. Also, I guess my points about where the film succeeded was not worthy of response either.
Empyreal wrote:
I watch movies as a more emotional, full picture and don't really let every single little detail detract points or whatever - it's the full and complete work that ends up resonating with me.
I am going to remember that when you inevitably contradict it.
Empyreal wrote:
Pretty much. You can pick apart literally any movie and go "why did this or that happen," but it's all subjective and based on a million ultra-personal little things, and it won't ever be universal.

And yeah Die Hard 3 is sometimes my favorite of all of them, though the first is the clear best one from a more objective standpoint.
I am not sure if you are contradicting yourself on purpose but these two posts demonstrate a severe lack of consistent thought.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:27 am 
 

Sure, I've criticized plot holes in movies I didn't like, which is all anybody has been saying. Halloween is a movie that I do like and so whatever little inaccuracies and details don't affect my enjoyment. Everything is all 100% subjective and we tend to nitpick movies that don't work for us more than those that do. You're going out of your way to attack me and read stuff into my posts that aren't there (never took any "digs" at your post and am not contradicting myself at all), so I'm good on continuing this any further.
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acid_bukkake
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:57 pm 
 

I float between the first and third Die Hard being my favorite of the series, but the first is a much tighter movie all-around. It is, truth be told, objectively better. It's not a contradiction to say that after talking about subjectivity, particularly when they are in reference to different things (skills vs. impact). Case in point, to circle back to Halloween, I'm in the "it's overrated" camp based on my own enjoyment, but there are few slashers - let alone horror films, as a whole - better crafted than Carpenter's original.

It's Carpenter's loveletter to urban legends dashed with his giallo appreciation, so that the lack of sense certain details make only enhance it. This is even more apparent when you take Carpenter's work at large into account, even the dreck like Ghosts of Mars, in that he's far more about concept and blue collar workmanship than he is over thought plot points.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:02 pm 
 

acid_bukkake wrote:
he's far more about concept and blue collar workmanship than he is over thought plot points.


This is sort of what I was trying to get at before. So much of art in general is about how it affects you and what the concept is, as opposed to a mechanical kind of assessment. Some people do look at art in that kinda mechanical way ("here are some plot points that bothered me") and that's fine. But it isn't a catch-all thing and there's so many various ways art can affect you.
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:29 pm 
 

Man, it's honestly just kind of sad to see the people who are this starved for attention and the only way they feel they can get it is by going "I think *insert beloved masterpiece and cultural institution here* SUCKS!"

But somehow even more sad is somebody who can take a look at a work of art that has inspired countless directors and films, has iconic imagery and characters, and is a lot more than the sum of its parts, and go "well 1 hour and 12 minutes into the movie, this character falls down some stairs and isn't laid out for the rest of the movie." and say it like it matters to anyone but the most autistic of children.
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Luvers666
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:37 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Sure, I've criticized plot holes in movies I didn't like, which is all anybody has been saying. Halloween is a movie that I do like and so whatever little inaccuracies and details don't affect my enjoyment. Everything is all 100% subjective and we tend to nitpick movies that don't work for us more than those that do.
Okay, if you say so. Halloween can be seen as an underwhelming film and the reasons for that is as listed. If you want to love the film that is fine by me, there are parts of it I enjoy as well, but you are definitely flip flopping here instead of just accepting the fact that you were kind of rude to the person who originally stated he thought the film was overrated. After you were called out you tried to go with the whole, "Oh, everything is subjective," route while simultaneously continuing to spout off about absolutes as if this conversation could ever be anything other than subjective. But sure, you did NOTHING wrong here.
Empyreal wrote:
You're going out of your way to attack me
It is actually quite disappointing that you think that. I am not attacking you, quite the opposite actually. I am exceeding beyond my normal cadence in the hopes you and others will converse with me, so attacking you would be counterproductive to that hope.
Empyreal wrote:
and read stuff into my posts that aren't there (never took any "digs" at your post and am not contradicting myself at all), so I'm good on continuing this any further.
Like calling the post a dissertation. It does not matter that you did, was just pointing it out. I am not a narcissist so I do not have "to be right" or equate the valid opinion of another to "autism," I would rather just discuss films with you.
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